Draft Trade Rumors

[JetFaninMI]

2 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Having a good offensive line and drafting a center in round one are not mutually exclusive.

There is also room in-between Macc's neglect of the offensive line, and drafting a center in the 1st round.

"Just being okay" isn't what got us here.  We had a center who couldn't actually snap the ball.  Since Mangold retired, we made zero investment in the position.  I'm not suggesting doing that.  That's a bad idea.  I'm suggesting that in the 1st round, use your resources better.

As for needing to score points.  The Kansas City Chiefs scored the most PPG in the NFL.  Their center was drafted in the mid-2nd round, and has made 0 Pro Bowls.  The Los Angeles Rams scored the 2nd most PPG in the NFL.  Their center was drafted in the 4th round and has made 0 Pro Bowls.  So, obviously you can get by without top-end center play.  Meanwhile, our New York Jets had like 2 decades worth of "best center in the league" with Mawae and Mangold, and guess what, never a top offense.

I'd love to have a great player at every position.  That'd be fun, and we'd probably win a lot of games.  But, you only get so many draft picks, and so much cap space, and center is undoubtedly a position where you can find quality in later rounds, and get by with adequate play.  This really isn't any different than the reason you don't draft a SS at 6.

Mostly this is true. For this draft though not so much. After that 1st round talent there is a big drop-off. Which is why I wouldn't be upset if they traded down and drafted a Center in the 1st.

Well just being okay is what got us here from the standpoint of Macc's neglect. He thought it was okay to not draft the OL and bring in retreads and UDFA to try and bolster an ageing OL and it clearly didn't work. Now we are left with the aftermath of that and Macc's neglect has led us here as I think we both agree. The urgency for me is putting our young FQB behind a suspect OL while he is developing. We need to develop a young OL along with Sam to keep him upright and productive for years to come.

The teams you mentioned did score a lot of points and didn't have a lot of early round draft picks on their OL. That is true. You have to take what the draft gives you. In this years draft,for me, the main talent is in the first and early second rounds. Since we don't have a second(yet) and at this point taking an OL is verboten at 3(according to some) where will the OL depth come from? Older scrapheap guys that are left in FA? More UDFA'S? Its a real problem and is going to wind up biting us in the ass at some point.

 

[NYs Stepchild]

9 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

And, we traded away an elite pass rusher to do so.  Something the team has never really recovered from.  I love Mangold, everyone loves Mangold.  Trading Abraham for Mangold was a huge mistake.

Again, not drafting a center in the 1st round is not the same thing as not drafting an offensive lineman is not the same thing as not drafting a center anywhere in the draft.  This really shouldn't be hard to grasp.

John Abraham was the perfect example.

Drafted 13th and projected to be a 2nd rounder.

The can't miss pair of studs Courtney Brown and Lavar Arrington went 1 and 2. Shawn Ellis went 12th. 

[bitonti]

F--k a trade down 

seriously it only makes sense if the GM can draft, which this one cant 

Orlando Pace called, he's got Walter Jones on line 2, let's get James Farrior 

[ZachEY]

3 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

Mostly this is true. For this draft though not so much. After that 1st round talent there is a big drop-off. Which is why I wouldn't be upset if they traded down and drafted a Center in the 1st.

 Well just being okay is what got us here from the standpoint of Macc's neglect. He thought it was okay to not draft the OL and bring in retreads and UDFA to try and bolster an ageing OL and it clearly didn't work. Now we are left with the aftermath of that and Macc's neglect has led us here as I think we both agree. The urgency for me is putting our young FQB behind a suspect OL while he is developing. We need to develop a young OL along with Sam to keep him upright and productive for years to come.

 The teams you mentioned did score a lot of points and didn't have a lot of early round draft picks on their OL. That is true. You have to take what the draft gives you. In this years draft,for me, the main talent is in the first and early second rounds. Since we don't have a second(yet) and at this point taking an OL is verboten at 3(according to some) where will the OL depth come from? Older scrapheap guys that are left in FA? More UDFA'S? Its a real problem and is going to wind up biting us in the ass at some point.

  

Macc's failures isn't a reason to make poor roster/allocation decisions going forward.

I don't care if they go OL at 15 either, as stated.  But, take a tackle.  We can bring in a developmental center and go with what we have for another year.  We'll be okay.  Darnold is the 1st good use of resources as far as translating to winning.  Trumaine Johnson too, though he sucks, paying a #1 corner is a good thing.  We just paid one we shouldn't have.  Otherwise, our money/resources are all in the wrong places.  Need to get good at positions that matter more.  Adding center into the mix doesn't do that.

[choon328]

23 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Having a good offensive line and drafting a center in round one are not mutually exclusive.

There is also room in-between Macc's neglect of the offensive line, and drafting a center in the 1st round.

"Just being okay" isn't what got us here.  We had a center who couldn't actually snap the ball.  Since Mangold retired, we made zero investment in the position.  I'm not suggesting doing that.  That's a bad idea.  I'm suggesting that in the 1st round, use your resources better.

As for needing to score points.  The Kansas City Chiefs scored the most PPG in the NFL.  Their center was drafted in the mid-2nd round, and has made 0 Pro Bowls.  The Los Angeles Rams scored the 2nd most PPG in the NFL.  Their center was drafted in the 4th round and has made 0 Pro Bowls.  So, obviously you can get by without top-end center play.  Meanwhile, our New York Jets had like 2 decades worth of "best center in the league" with Mawae and Mangold, and guess what, never a top offense.

I'd love to have a great player at every position.  That'd be fun, and we'd probably win a lot of games.  But, you only get so many draft picks, and so much cap space, and center is undoubtedly a position where you can find quality in later rounds, and get by with adequate play.  This really isn't any different than the reason you don't draft a SS at 6.

The Chiefs Center from last season is the highest paid Center in the league right now

[GREENBEAN]

Much rather draft Bradbury.  
I heard an analysis of Jonah Williams and the take was that he’s Overrated...Explosion and Flexibility just not where they should be for someone considered at that level....if so, definite pass.

I’ve heard some things like that too. I listened to Paul Alexander on moving the chains last night and he basically said all of the issues with Jonah will not stop him from being a dominant LT (not guard) in the NFL.
Just for what it’s worth. I’m ok with Jonah, Ford, Bradbury Dillard or even Little In the first.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Savage69]

13 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Having a good offensive line and drafting a center in round one are not mutually exclusive.

There is also room in-between Macc's neglect of the offensive line, and drafting a center in the 1st round.

"Just being okay" isn't what got us here.  We had a center who couldn't actually snap the ball.  Since Mangold retired, we made zero investment in the position.  I'm not suggesting doing that.  That's a bad idea.  I'm suggesting that in the 1st round, use your resources better.As for needing to score points.  The Kansas City Chiefs scored the most PPG in the NFL.  Their center was drafted in the mid-2nd round, and has made 0 Pro Bowls.  The Los Angeles Rams scored the 2nd most PPG in the NFL.  Their center was drafted in the 4th round and has made 0 Pro Bowls. 

And when we won Supe lll our center John Schmitt was a UDFA from Hofstra when the draft went 20+ rounds..

[joewilly12]

Just now, GREENBEAN said:

I’ve heard some things like that too. I listened to Paul Alexander on moving the chains last night and he basically said all of the issues with Jonah will not stop him from being a dominant LT (not guard) in the NFL.
Just for what it’s worth. I’m ok with Jonah, Ford, Bradbury Dillard or even Little In the first.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Jonah Williams at 3 is ok by me. 

[Butterfield]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Washington's first, second, third, and next year's first is pretty close to the classic chart's value of the trade. If they're taking less than that, then I'd hope it would just be a lower valued pick than that third rounder. Like a fourth this year or a third next year. Trading from #3 to #15 is a big drop and needs to be compensated properly. 

I get it, that offer just may not be available.  So you either have to take less or stay where you are.  

[Rhg1084]

If Jets do move down to 15 I feel like there are some good guys we can target still like: 

Jonah Williams

DK Metcalf

Greedy Williams 

Clelin Ferrell 

Rashard Gary???

[ZachEY]

6 minutes ago, choon328 said:

The Chiefs Center from last season is the highest paid Center in the league right now

And still, no pro bowls and not a 1st round pick.  Find talent elsewhere.

[Integrity28]

33 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Having a good offensive line and drafting a center in round one are not mutually exclusive.

There is also room in-between Macc's neglect of the offensive line, and drafting a center in the 1st round.

"Just being okay" isn't what got us here.  We had a center who couldn't actually snap the ball.  Since Mangold retired, we made zero investment in the position.  I'm not suggesting doing that.  That's a bad idea.  I'm suggesting that in the 1st round, use your resources better.

As for needing to score points.  The Kansas City Chiefs scored the most PPG in the NFL.  Their center was drafted in the mid-2nd round, and has made 0 Pro Bowls.  The Los Angeles Rams scored the 2nd most PPG in the NFL.  Their center was drafted in the 4th round and has made 0 Pro Bowls.  So, obviously you can get by without top-end center play.  Meanwhile, our New York Jets had like 2 decades worth of "best center in the league" with Mawae and Mangold, and guess what, never a top offense.

I'd love to have a great player at every position.  That'd be fun, and we'd probably win a lot of games.  But, you only get so many draft picks, and so much cap space, and center is undoubtedly a position where you can find quality in later rounds, and get by with adequate play.  This really isn't any different than the reason you don't draft a SS at 6.

I think we can trade back to 15, use that pick on WR, CB or edge. Then use the 2nd from Wash on Jenkins atC.

[section314]

38 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

And, we traded away an elite pass rusher to do so.  Something the team has never really recovered from.  I love Mangold, everyone loves Mangold.  Trading Abraham for Mangold was a huge mistake.

Again, not drafting a center in the 1st round is not the same thing as not drafting an offensive lineman is not the same thing as not drafting a center anywhere in the draft.  This really shouldn't be hard to grasp.

Disagree. Mangold is an all time great Jet, as well as one of the best centers in the last 25 years. Abraham is just another guy.

[bitonti]

18 minutes ago, choon328 said:

The Chiefs Center from last season is the highest paid Center in the league right now

Nate Solder was the highest paid offensive lineman in football last year

this year it's Trent Brown 

highest paid doesn't mean best it means the best guy who was able to get to a desperate market 

mitch morse has serious scary concussion issues. He doesn't miss a week he misses like 2 months and it's happened twice 

it was a poor investment

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

Nate Solder was the highest paid offensive lineman in football last year

He sucked ask any Giants fan. 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

45 minutes ago, Ghost said:

You think Lee for Clowney is interesting? This is a joke, right? Although I am not a big fan of Clowney, these two players should not be compared. They will laugh at us if we offered something like that. 

Depends if they are prepared to back up the truck for Clowney - I was just comparing potential trade value, I agree we cannot compare player production (Clowney is 5x the player but also 5x the cost), Clowney is not consistent and will want $100m (they are not getting a high pick for him)

AB was traded for a 3rd and a 5th round pick...

[Ruby2]

4 minutes ago, section314 said:

Disagree. Mangold is an all time great Jet, as well as one of the best centers in the last 25 years. Abraham is just another guy.

This is insane. Abraham wrecked games for over a decade. 10+ sacks a year guys are more valuable than the very best centers.

Abraham also has a legit case for the HOF.

[Beerfish]

12 minutes ago, bitonti said:

F--k a trade down 

seriously it only makes sense if the GM can draft, which this one cant 

Orlando Pace called, he's got Walter Jones on line 2, let's get James Farrior 

Is there a top end OT there for us in the top 5?  Is there a Von Miller?  A sure fire 100% Aaron Donald?  A Revis?

If there was an OT rated in the top 3 not one person would be calling to trade down.

[section314]

2 minutes ago, Ruby2 said:

This is insane. Abraham wrecked games for over a decade. 10+ sacks a year guys are more valuable than the very best centers.

Sadly for the Jets, we never saw that in any big games, as he asked out of playoff games when here. Guess we would have won Super Bowls if he could have gotten himself to play. When the HOF comes calling for Abraham, let's talk.

[ZachEY]

9 minutes ago, section314 said:

Disagree. Mangold is an all time great Jet, as well as one of the best centers in the last 25 years. Abraham is just another guy.

Abraham had 5 10+ sack seasons and a 6th 9.5 sack season since leaving the Jets.  If that’s just a guy, you’d think we’d have easily replaced that level of production in 13 years.

[Ruby2]

2 minutes ago, section314 said:

Sadly for the Jets, we never saw that in any big games, as he asked out of playoff games when here. Guess we would have won Super Bowls if he could have gotten himself to play. When the HOF comes calling for Abraham, let's talk.

He's 12th all time in sacks. 1-11 are all in.  A bunch below him are in as well.

He's prob getting in.

Mangold was a great Jet, I just value pass rushers more.

[section314]

3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Abraham had 5 10+ sack seasons and a 6th 9.5 sack season since leaving the Jets.  If that’s just a guy, you’d think we’d have easily replaced that level of production in 13 years.

Did the Jets get better or worse after Abraham left? Did Mangold have anything to do with it?

[bitonti]

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Is there a top end OT there for us in the top 5?  Is there a Von Miller?  A sure fire 100% Aaron Donald?  A Revis?

If there was an OT rated in the top 3 not one person would be calling to trade down.

yes there's an Aaron Donald his name is Ed Oliver. There might be a Gerald McCoy if 2 teams pass on Quinnen Williams. 

i get that people want line. there's no line. there's no sushi at the steakhouse, there's only steak 

trade downs are like saying let's go get all you can eat sushi cause it's more food and i'm super hungry 

quality doesn't equal quantity

there's only 240 people in the Pro football hall of fame the Jets have a better chance getting that guy sticking at 3 than trading down to 15 and whatever 

 

[Untouchable]

14 minutes ago, section314 said:

Disagree. Mangold is an all time great Jet, as well as one of the best centers in the last 25 years. Abraham is just another guy.

Just another guy?

He’s 12th all-time in sacks.

I love Mangold but Abe played by far the more important position and just barely misses the HOF cut.

[ZachEY]

6 minutes ago, section314 said:

Did the Jets get better or worse after Abraham left? Did Mangold have anything to do with it?

The Jets defense was much better when Eric Smith was the SS than Jamal Adams, as long as we’re doing this.

[section314]

4 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Just another guy?

He’s 12th all-time in sacks.

I love Mangold but Abe played by far the more important position and just barely misses the HOF cut.

My point is...would you swap Abraham for Mangold, based on what happened to the Jets as a team afterwards? I don't see how anyone could not say yes. I respect everyone's opinion, just don't agree on this one.

[Klecko73isGod]

6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

yes there's an Aaron Donald his name is Ed Oliver. There might be a Gerald McCoy if 2 teams pass on Quinnen Williams. 

i get that people want line. there's no line. there's no sushi at the steakhouse, there's only steak 

trade downs are like saying let's go get all you can eat sushi cause it's more food and i'm super hungry 

quality doesn't equal quantity

there's only 240 people in the Pro football hall of fame the Jets have a better chance getting that guy sticking at 3 than trading down to 15 and whatever 

 

You literally can not run your draft by hoping to get a Hall of Famer because it's totally unrealistic. 

While you are obviously more likely to draft a great player at 3 than 15, you are just as more likely of finding a great player somewhere in the draft with 4 picks as opposed to one. 

One thing I've learned from watching 40 drafts is that the whole thing is a crapshoot. A guy who people consider a great pick tomorrow might be a total bust in five years and a guy considered a reach tomorrow might be the next Jerry Rice. 

I, personally, prefer the odds of having more picks. 

[section314]

4 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

The Jets defense was much better when Eric Smith was the SS than Jamal Adams, as long as we’re doing this.

Apples vs Oranges, and you know it. If Smith was traded for Adams, would be something to discuss.

[Klecko73isGod]

6 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

The Jets defense was much better when Eric Smith was the SS than Jamal Adams, as long as we’re doing this.

Yes, but if Adams played on the defense Smith played on we likely have a trophy because that would have turned a great defense into the 85 Bears. 

[Augustiniak]

29 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Nate Solder was the highest paid offensive lineman in football last year

this year it's Trent Brown 

highest paid doesn't mean best it means the best guy who was able to get to a desperate market 

mitch morse has serious scary concussion issues. He doesn't miss a week he misses like 2 months and it's happened twice 

it was a poor investment

true.  but none of this means the guy the jets can get a #3 will be great.  

if you consider bill belichick's philosophy to be the best, then getting as many picks as possible and spreading out the risk is the way to go.

[Integrity28]

Alright, let's assume we get #15, #46 and #76 from Washington, along with a 2020 first. I have no idea if we should get more or not, but just imagine this is the meat of the transaction.

Here is a quick run-through of picks that could be made (without doing comprehensive analysis, just spit-balling) - with the prevailing philosophy being BUILD AROUND SAM:

• R1 (15): DK Metcalf, WR
• R2 (46): Erik McCoy, C
• R3 (68): Riley Ridley, WR
• R3 (76): Joejuan Williams, CB
• R3 (93): Ben Banogu, EDGE
• R4 (105): Yodney Cajuste, OT
• R6 (196): ...
• R7 (217): ...

[RVAJet815]

Honestly don’t think DK is a fit in this offense, though I grant you I may be biased as I’m really not a huge fan. Frankly if we get 15, I’m either looking to trade down again or just take Bradbury there. I want as many day 2 swings as I can get.

 

 

[slats]

21 minutes ago, bitonti said:

yes there's an Aaron Donald his name is Ed Oliver. There might be a Gerald McCoy if 2 teams pass on Quinnen Williams. 

i get that people want line. there's no line. there's no sushi at the steakhouse, there's only steak 

trade downs are like saying let's go get all you can eat sushi cause it's more food and i'm super hungry 

quality doesn't equal quantity

there's only 240 people in the Pro football hall of fame the Jets have a better chance getting that guy sticking at 3 than trading down to 15 and whatever 

 

I'm in favor of trading down if the team gets fair or better compensation. I'm not in favor of selling the pick low. So I'm not doing it just for the all-you-can-eat sushi, but I am if they throw in a couple signature cocktails and some of that green tea ice cream. 

[#27TheDominator]

51 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

If Jets do move down to 15 I feel like there are some good guys we can target still like: 

Jonah Williams

DK Metcalf

Greedy Williams 

Clelin Ferrell 

Rashard Gary???

This is basically a list of guys I do not want. 

[Ghost]

8 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Alright, let's assume we get #15, #46 and #76 from Washington, along with a 2020 first. I have no idea if we should get more or not, but just imagine this is the meat of the transaction.

Here is a quick run-through of picks that could be made (without doing comprehensive analysis, just spit-balling) - with the prevailing philosophy being BUILD AROUND SAM:

• R1 (15): DK Metcalf, WR
• R2 (46): Erik McCoy, C
• R3 (68): Riley Ridley, WR
• R3 (76): Joejuan Williams, CB
• R3 (93): Ben Banogu, EDGE
• R4 (105): Yodney Cajuste, OT
• R6 (196): ...
• R7 (217): ...

I’ll sign up for that right now. I cannot see McCoy dropping to 46.