Draft Trade Rumors

[Integrity28]

22 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Apparently There is more of a market for the #3 pick than there was last week per Albert Breer

wonder if the Cardinals futzing around has anything to do with that

Probably has more to do with teams having been coy about Haskins and Oliver, plus being at 3 guaranteed Bosa or Q.

Oliver is shooting up boards now that prognosticators are realizing teams like him more than they did inittially. Haskins is the #1 pocket passer in a QB driven league.

[NYs Stepchild]

9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

look, we all want a bounty of picks to move down from 3. but it has to be a huge huge windfall or they will be getting screwed.  And who's going to trade a windfall for DT/Edge it usually happens for QBs. 

My concern is for when that trade down doesn't happen

Im going on record Ed Oliver no matter what  

you're defense is dead rant doesn't really ring true after a 13-3 SB that was 3-3 all game. the Rams with 2 stud DTs made the Pats throw short. Donald was on Brady's mind all night. with our luck tb12 plays for another 5 seasons the Jets need to get pressure on him to get out of this division. 

I legitimately believe QW and Oliver will each make Pro Bowls. Can't say that about any of these other guys with any confidence. that's why it costs a windfall to get up to 3, (and why it's different than 4 and 6) the higher in the draft we go the more sure these bets become. THat's not opinion it's backed up by the statistics of draft position vs Hof/All pro/Pro Bowl 

side note I also loved Jimmy Garappolo coming out of school, ranted for an entire spring how the Jets should draft him, they took Jace Amaro to provide Geno Smith with more weapons. No one ever remembers Bitonti the man who wanted his paizano Jimmy G to come to NJ for some baked ziti 

if anyone is looking for a precise moment where the Jets broke me as a human, and started my deep decent into pure Emperor palpatine level hatred, it was probably that draft. 

Donald was picked 13th. Demarcus Lawrence 2nd round. Garappolo was the 5th QB taken. 

Higher picks are worth about 20% more than lower 1st round picks.

For every time you were right about a prospect you were wrong about another...or two.

Democracy dies to thunderous applause. 

[ZachEY]

2 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

Yes.  It is an oversimplification to focus just on Mangold and Abraham. 

You don't have to agree with me but I believe that our best stretch of play as a franchise (since the superbowl)  was the direct result of drafting two offensive lineman in the first round.  All of a sudden we had a very good running game.  By running the ball we kept our D fresh and off the field.  It enabled us to start a mediocre rookie at QB and still win.

But, the question is not, nor was it ever, "Is Nick Mangold good?  Does Nick Mangold add value?"  The question is, how much value does having a top 3 type center add over having an average center in terms of success?

I think it's fairly obvious that great pass rusher vs. average pass rusher is a much more meaningful difference than great center vs. average center.

Take the best center available in the 3rd.  2nd, perhaps if value/need is there.  Give me a guy who makes more of an impact in the 1st.

[Integrity28]

4 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

But, the question is not, nor was it ever, "Is Nick Mangold good?  Does Nick Mangold add value?"  The question is, how much value does having a top 3 type center add over having an average center in terms of success?

I think it's fairly obvious that great pass rusher vs. average pass rusher is a much more meaningful difference than great center vs. average center.

Take the best center available in the 3rd.  2nd, perhaps if value/need is there.  Give me a guy who makes more of an impact in the 1st.

This is logical. I agree.

1st round should be reserved for QB, WR, EDGE, DE, OT, CB ... with exceptions being made (in context) for other positions, depending on how special the player is. 

[Embrace the Suck]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

We've been chasing an "elite defense" for decades now, at the cost of an equal investment in an elite offense, and the results speak for themselves.  We've been a very very good Defense a number of times, and we won nothing of note.

Doing the same thing and expecting different outcomes is insanity.  I would choose to try something new, like trying to build an elite-level offense.

That is why I want to see a trade down. 

[ZachEY]

46 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

This is logical. I agree.

1st round should be reserved for QB, WR, EDGE, DE, OT, CB ... with exceptions being made (in context) for other positions, depending on how special the player is. 

Agreed.  Look, if we were a great team with a hole at center, I get it.  We're a bad team with a hole at center.  Suddenly, we'd be a bad team without a hole at center.

[jack48]

39 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

The Jets never played in a conference championship game with Abraham.  Mangold played in two.   If I remember correctly, he sat out a playoff game because he didn't want to get hurt before he signed his big contract. 

Did we miss having a great pass rusher?  Yes.  But that turned out to be a very good trade for the Jets.

not true.  He could not lay against Oakland because he was on an IV and was too dehydrated to deal with 300 lb. linemen.

[bitonti]

23 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

 

Higher picks are worth about 20% more than lower 1st round picks.

For every time you were right about a prospect you were wrong about another...or two.

 

Show your work (x2) 

[#27TheDominator]

30 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

Yes.  It is an oversimplification to focus just on Mangold and Abraham. 

You don't have to agree with me but I believe that our best stretch of play as a franchise (since the superbowl)  was the direct result of drafting two offensive lineman in the first round.  All of a sudden we had a very good running game.  By running the ball we kept our D fresh and off the field.  It enabled us to start a mediocre rookie at QB and still win.

Our running game was atrocious in 2006 and pretty sh*tty in 2007.  It didn't reach "very good" until they spent a gajillion dollars on Faneca, got insanely lucky moving a career C/G to RT and traded for Thomas Jones. Many look on Brick and Mangold as cornerstones of the franchise, but they may not have even been the best linemen on the team.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

20 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Donald was picked 13th. Demarcus Lawrence 2nd round. Garappolo was the 5th QB taken. 

Higher picks are worth about 20% more than lower 1st round picks.

For every time you were right about a prospect you were wrong about another...or two.

Democracy dies to thunderous applause. 

Donald was undersized and stabbed a guy over a coat or something. And how dare you compare this football player to that other football player.

Lawrence was an average athlete in a draft where four pro bowl edge guys went in front of him.

Show your work on the exchange rate.

Han's still dead and episode 9 is gonna suuuuuuuuuuck.

[Matt39]

 

[RVAJet815]

 

Excellent. #3 just got a lot more valuable if true.

[Bruce Harper]

9 minutes ago, jack48 said:

not true.  He could not lay against Oakland because he was on an IV and was too dehydrated to deal with 300 lb. linemen.

Maybe it was leading up to the playoffs.  I think it was 2005.  Abraham was going to be a free agent.  He said he was "concerned about [his] future" because his knee hurt and he sat the game out.   He took a beating in the press.  Don't remember any IV involved.

[Bruce Harper]

34 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

But, the question is not, nor was it ever, "Is Nick Mangold good?  Does Nick Mangold add value?"  The question is, how much value does having a top 3 type center add over having an average center in terms of success?

I think it's fairly obvious that great pass rusher vs. average pass rusher is a much more meaningful difference than great center vs. average center.

Take the best center available in the 3rd.  2nd, perhaps if value/need is there.  Give me a guy who makes more of an impact in the 1st.

Fair.

[Warfish]

43 minutes ago, bitonti said:

look, we all want a bounty of picks to move down from 3.

That's refreshing to hear.  I think, tho, we may all define "bounty" a bit differently.

43 minutes ago, bitonti said:

but it has to be a huge huge windfall or they will be getting screwed.

The only way we get screwed is if Macc and Boggle-eyes draft bad players with their "bounty" of picks, or their one pick if they stand pat.

43 minutes ago, bitonti said:

And who's going to trade a windfall for DT/Edge it usually happens for QBs.

But.....a 99 sparq.?  Right?  Surely someone will give up a "bounty" of picks for an OVER 99!!! 

43 minutes ago, bitonti said:

My concern is for when that trade down doesn't happen

I don't have concerns anymore.  You should try it, it's f'ing....awesome.

43 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Im going on record Ed Oliver no matter what

Noted, for the official registrar of forums.

43 minutes ago, bitonti said:

  you're defense is dead rant doesn't really ring true after a 13-3 SB that was 3-3 all game. the Rams with 2 stud DTs made the Pats throw short. Donald was on Brady's mind all night. with our luck tb12 plays for another 5 seasons the Jets need to get pressure on him to get out of this division.

Rams 2018 Offensive Ranking:  #2 in Yards (6,738) and #3 in Touchdowns/Scoring Offense

Patriots 2018 Offensive Rankings:  #5 in Yards (6,295) and #5 in Touchdowns/Scoring Offense

The runner's up, The Saints and Chiefs, were also elite-level productive offenses.

43 minutes ago, bitonti said:

.....if anyone is looking for a precise moment where the Jets broke me as a human, and started my deep decent into pure Emperor palpatine level hatred, it was probably that draft. 

I'm finding my newfound Zen (or disinterest, if you prefer) to be refreshing and liberating.

I control nothing, so why deeply emotionally invest in an outcome in which I literally play no role whatsoever?

A hobby should be fun.  Obsessions are rarely fun after a while.  So I've chosen to deplug.  What will be, will be.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Bruce Harper said:

Maybe it was leading up to the playoffs.  I think it was 2005.  Abraham was going to be a free agent.  He said he was "concerned about [his] future" because his knee hurt and he sat the game out.   He took a beating in the press.  Don't remember any IV involved.

Sean Ellis was the one getting the IV because he was playing every snap while Abraham was jumping up and down on the sideline with his “bad knee.”

[GREENBEAN]

Had nothing to stop with what he was with the Jets which led to the trade.  Along with him wanting big money. 
Mangold isn't the point, he was a top C, worth it for years. Abraham wasn't helping win big games for the Jets at the time.  Worked out for both teams.

Especially when he was sitting out of playoff games. He can suck it.


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[The Crusher]

7 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

 

Holy crap, that would be some crap, if that crap happens. 

[peebag]

Does anyone trust Mac making the right decisions if we trade down?

[Integrity28]

26 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Agreed.  Look, if we were a great team with a hole at center, I get it.  We're a bad team with a whole at center.  Suddenly, we'd be a bad team without a whole at center.

Primary reason I want more picks is because this is being touted as a deep WR draft. So, while most folks here are talking about the OL and Edge, my focus is "how might we make multiple WR selections, and still plug other holes?"

Broken Q, Jamison and Robby are not enough. 

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, peebag said:

Does anyone trust Mac making the right decisions if we trade down?

Irrelevant. Does anyone trust him to make the right decisions if he doesn't? 

[Integrity28]

11 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

 

Oh boy. If that happens, and SF has Bosa far-and-away higher than the other EDGE players. Then #3 becomes the hot spot for anyone wanting Haskins or Murray. I mean, Mac would have to WANT TO eff this up if that were the case.

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

Especially when he was sitting out of playoff games. He can suck it.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

What was it a tummy ache.  A bad stomach and he sat out that play off game in Oakland

[jack48]

12 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

Maybe it was leading up to the playoffs.  I think it was 2005.  Abraham was going to be a free agent.  He said he was "concerned about [his] future" because his knee hurt and he sat the game out.   He took a beating in the press.  Don't remember any IV involved.

may have been regular season.  i am thinking of the game they lost with Chad out there in the playoffs

[CTJetsFan]

Talking about the trade with the Redskins scenario/possibility: Let's assume we get #15. Are there players on the 'Skins you guys would take back in lieu of a pick (ex. Skins 2nd and Scherff instead of 'Skins 2nd & 3rd)?

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Sean Ellis was the one getting the IV because he was playing every snap while Abraham was jumping up and down on the sideline with his “bad knee.”

The flu against Oakland is what they are talking about - claim is that Abraham was hung over.  The 2004 playoffs, Abraham was legit hurt and you could see when he tried to go in practice he'd be useless.  My Dad, who traditionally is not going to like Abraham, said that Herm threw him under the bus.  People bust on him because he said in an interview that he had to "do what is right for his future" or something similar when asked about playing.  Considering he was legit hurt and talking about if playing on it would cause problems going forward, I didn't have a problem with the comment. 

[#27TheDominator]

10 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Irrelevant. Does anyone trust him to make the right decisions if he doesn't? 

There is some relevance.  He has made somewhere near 30 picks as Jets GM.  Even being generous, his hits have been Williams, Jenkins, Shell, Adams, Darnold and Herndon.  Am I missing any?  Maybe the punter.  Basically, half of his "hits" have been top 6 picks.  Trading down to 11 or 15 brings significant risk that he will bust (like Lee and his high 2nds) without a corresponding chance of hits with the extra pick(s). 

[HawkeyeJet]

26 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

 

Shonka is a really underrated draft scouting type in my opinion.  Not sure his connections for breaking news though.  Very interesting. FWIW he was one of the first guys I heard speculate Mayfield to Cleveland last year.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Shonka is a really underrated draft scouting type in my opinion.  Not sure his connections for breaking news though.  Very interesting. FWIW he was one of the first guys I heard speculate Mayfield to Cleveland last year.

this would make me happy b/c he's the guy i don't want the jets to take.  

[UnitedWhofans]

25 minutes ago, peebag said:

Does anyone trust Mac making the right decisions if we trade down?

50/50 essentially but that doesn’t stop you from doing it. Process must be correct

[RVAJet815]

50/50 essentially but that doesn’t stop you from doing it. Process must be correct

I trust Mac making the trade. I’m less sure of him actually picking the right player.

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

The flu against Oakland is what they are talking about - claim is that Abraham was hung over.  The 2004 playoffs, Abraham was legit hurt and you could see when he tried to go in practice he'd be useless.  My Dad, who traditionally is not going to like Abraham, said that Herm threw him under the bus.  People bust on him because he said in an interview that he had to "do what is right for his future" or something similar when asked about playing.  Considering he was legit hurt and talking about if playing on it would cause problems going forward, I didn't have a problem with the comment. 

That’s interesting info. Abraham broke my heart toward the end because I thought he’d be an all-time great. Also recall his answer to the question about whether he’d rather make the Super Bowl or the Pro Bowl and he equivocated about it being a tough call. It killed me when Herm made him a DE, too. What a waste of talent 

[joewilly12]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Greedy Williams 

Could be our target and next starting CB. 

[#27TheDominator]

28 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

Maybe it was leading up to the playoffs.  I think it was 2005.  Abraham was going to be a free agent.  He said he was "concerned about [his] future" because his knee hurt and he sat the game out.   He took a beating in the press.  Don't remember any IV involved.

He hadn't played since week 12.  People act like he just decided to skip a playoff game.  The whole story is flat out bullsh*t. 

[MDL_JET]