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Reality Check! (Merged)

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5 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Thank you adam gase’s pr agent.  Welcome to the board.

Right 

7 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I have to say I'm shocked of the reactions on this board to our 0-3 start. Have the games been unwatchable? Yes, but there is a bright side to the start of the 2019 season, Macc is gone & Joe Douglas is in charge. For 3 years I've seen the same people calling for Maccs head because he sucked balls, missed on pretty much every draft pick & signed Trumaine Johnson to a 70 million dollar contract, totally ignored the Oline for 4 straight years including this last draft until he took Edoga. 

So, under this framework to start the season his starting QB played with Mono, Mosely got hurt & the defense crumbled because the backup LB was a rookie because Avery Williamson was lost for the year in preseason. We played 3 of the best defenses to start the year, we played yesterday's game (a place that we haven't won a game in 9 years with a 3rd string QB). This team has 15 drafted players on it, lowest in the entire league & their depth was as thin as celaphane B4 they played without 8 starters yesterday. 

Go back in the history of the NFL & show me another new Head Coach dealt a hand like this to start a season. It's hard enough to install all new systems let alone trying to do it with new faces every week. This is a blessing in disguise because every individual player is now exposed & there is nowhere to hide. This team will be transformed over the next 3 years with Douglas here. Just imagine that we have the 2nd highest paid offensive line in the NFL after watching this sh*tshow for three games now. 

Here the Real Reality check: Quincy Enunwa (Overpaid Jag/ Will be gone), Robbie Anderson (Skinny stick/dumbazz/maybe a 3rd WR will be gone), Trumaine Johnson (Biggest waste of money & roster spot I can remember/Gone), Kelvin Beachum (11 million dollar turnstile/Gone), Brian Winters (The final Jag of the Idzik debacle, Gone), Kalil (Finished/Gone). That's literally HALF of the starters on offense currently. Plus, KO, Shell, are just average now. 

This team was picked to finish between 31st & 27th by most pundants before the season started, remember that? You guys act like Gase was given a team ranked 15th to start the season. I don't remember a more snakebit Jets team since 1986 when they were 10-1 & lost like 5 guys in 1 week & finished with 5 straight losses, and that team had way more talent on offense than this one. 

Im not going to judge Gase until we can put together an Oline that isn't the 2nd coming of the one that Macc & his cronies built in Houston that ruined David Carrs career. Talk about history repeating itself! A lot of guys are playing as hard as they can, slackers are being called out & rightfully so, and JD is getting a good look at who he needs to start culling over the next 3 years. Our Jets have hit rock bottom finally after 10 years of the most horrifically bad drafting I've ever seen in the NFL. Only this time we still have a 22 year old young QB with huge upside. We need to keep this kid from getting killed while JD goes to work this offseason. This Oline has 3 Wayne Hunters & KO and a below average RT in Shell. Maybe it starts in the 2020 draft with the Georgia LT, this ressurection project will be the toughest thing Joe Douglas has ever been associated with but Philly didn't want to lose him for a reason. I believe in JD until I don't. 

Go Jets. I'm so disappointed big changes are right around the corner. These guys have to see exactly what we've been seeing for 8 years & they'll be a 100% change in philosophy starting as soon as this season ends. It's like a bandaid was just ripped off in the 1st three games exposing the wounds festering on this team.

Yea I’m real pumped JD got us Kalil who gets trucked every game and brought in a Norwegian kicker who cost us the Bills game. The new regime is doing a “great job!”

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21 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Thank you adam gase’s pr agent.  Welcome to the board.

At least I'm not bi polar. Sure I'm disappointed & thought we would be better but it wasn't in the cards. This idea that Gase hasn't gotten creative enough on offense is hilarious. I've seen good defenses stymie completely healthy offenses B4, and this team is FAR FROM HEALTHY OR GOOD ON OFFENSE to start with. We don't even have 1 legit WR to play on the outside. Robbie Anderson is a poor mans Ted Ginn for god sakes & how many teams has he played on in his career (they call WRs like these "complimentary players" not starting #1 WRs). THIS TEAMS TALENT SUCKS! Idzik & Macc ruined this team & built a horrible Frankenstein monster. 

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I don't think many people are in the mood for a pep talk this morning @Jetster.

The Jets are in need of an overhaul that could take years, nobody is looking forward to it. We heard a lot of good things about this team before the season started, and a lot of people bought in. Even the downers expected 6 wins. A lot of fans are disgusted today now that we see the actual product.

The thought of another rebuild has them angry, especially when quite a few don't think we have the right HC, don't really know anything about the GM, and are waiting to see if we really do have a FQB. Lets be honest here. What are the odds that the JETS, of all teams, hit on the right HC, GM, and QB all at the same time?

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@Jetster - great post.  I love how you laid out your thinking and agree with much of it. 

That said, I can agree and also have strong negative feelings about Gase.  Both can be true.

Gase as a HC has lost a lot of games and I have no confidence that he is the right leader for this team.  

We need someone that at least can say to the team - I've been there.  I've done it.  I know what the process is.  

The only thing he knows is getting his @ss kicked every week.

 

 

 

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Gase is simply not a winning coach he has an ego that his record has not earned. this myth he is a young qb guru is a facility, the young qbs he worked with are out of the league in Tebow and and a back up( for the Bengals). 

He throws players under the bus and alienated his good players in Miami. He is now 4 games under 500 as a coach while after the injuries we should not expect much but we should expect some fire and team being prepared, players missing assignments in week 3 is coaching, unblocked pass rushers is scheme and coaching.

After talking all this talk from Gase about being ready this team offensively is unprepared, After yesterdays performance Iit looked like he already lost the team and he gave them an excuse for not even trying with the statement about no hard feelings if NE runs up the score.

What ever happened to we will be prepared and need to execute, we will try our hardest to win?

He is coaching to loose and not taking ownership of that. When the defense has outscored your offense that is a joke esp when your coach is a "guru"

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13 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

I don't think many people are in the mood for a pep talk this morning @Jetster.

The Jets are in need of an overhaul that could take years, nobody is looking forward to it. We heard a lot of good things about this team before the season started, and a lot of people bought in. Even the downers expected 6 wins. A lot of fans are disgusted today now that we see the actual product.

The thought of another rebuild has them angry, especially when quite a few don't think we have the right HC, don't really know anything about the GM, and are waiting to see if we really do have a FQB.

The biggest challenge for Gase is going to be figuring out how to keep this team together when they head into November at 0-7. If they can get Darnold back healthy, Get Mosley back healthy, figure out something on the OL those next 6 At Mia, NYG, At Wash, Oak, At Cin, Mia are all winnable games.

To me that is going to tell me all I need to know about Gase. If he keeps the team together and they continue to play hard and actually start winning some games then I will fell better about this hire. Right now ? All I know is that we can't block anybody or anything and when that happens no matter what you try to do it is not going to work.

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DisGase needs to own the poor game plans, and then I start believing he is a leader.  Our OL play can't be allowed to continue.  Offensive guru's a$$!

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1 minute ago, Fantasy Island said:

DisGase needs to own he poor game plans, and then I start believing he is a leader.  Our OL play can't be allowed to continue.  Offensive guru's a$$!

 

The offense was anemic. The Jets gained 105 yards, went 0-for-12 on third downs and averaged just 2.2 yards per play in the game. They had more punts (10) than first downs (six)

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I agree with the OP’s overall premise, but there are definitely some things that you can question.

Anyone who thought the Jets stood even the slightest chance yesterday is a goof. Luke Falk wouldn’t even be on an NFL roster if it wasn’t for our present QB situation. Yet we were supposed to have a chance against the best team in the league playing a severely limited QB behind our dogsh*t OL? That’s just silly wishful thinking.

However, you can definitely question Gase and some of his decisions. Gase stated after the Cleveland loss in which he benched Kalil in the 4th quarter that he wasn’t where he needs to be. So, what, I’m supposed to believe that he reached that point within a matter of 6 days? Harrison should be the starting center right now. Period. In fact, shakeups to the OL should happen pretty much all-around. Put in Edoga at LT and either Lewis or Compton at RG. I refuse to believe that either is as bad as Winters is currently playing.

And while I get that you have to dial things back with a terrible OL and a QB that has no business starting at this level, Gase’ offensive gameplan has been putrid since the first week of the season. All of these bubble screens and wheel routes out of the backfield are incredibly unimaginative to say the least. He did the same sh*t in Miami and Dolphins fans constantly ragged on him for it. He better get it together fast.

 

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I'm as disappointed as anyone in the start we've had, but we are in max adversity right now.  Let's have a reality check here.

1) Our best two players on offense are out, including QB1 Darnold.  The other is Herndon.

2) 4 of our top 5 defenders are gone (Williamson, Mosley, Quinnen Williams, Jordan Jenkins).  Only Jamal Adams back there right now.

3) Doesn't excuse our OL or secondary, but when your 3rd string QB has no pocket presence (no quick release), don't expect the OL to succeed.  Gase likes quick reads and pace... Falk has none of that.  Any secondary will get burnt if there is no pass rush.

 

If you recall 1999, when Vinny went down and Mirer sucked, we literally went winless for many weeks until Lucas started to put together a better second half.  And that team was stacked.  When you start your 3rd string QB, don't expect miracles.

Hoping that when Darnold and Herndon are back, and when Mosley, Jenkins, and Williams returns), we'll see a different team.  Will not rescue this season, but like most things, it's not as bad as it seems, and it is never as good as it seems (see Giants).

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OP isn't wrong. The problem is that somehow a sizable percentage of the fanbase deluded themselves into having playoff expectations for this team. Those who kept that in check are not overreacting to the season's start, because it is precisely what was expected. Minus the whole mono thing, clearly.

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I, for one, never had playoff expectations for this team. However, the complete and utter ineptitude in coaching was never expected after the bill of goods all of us were sold. So, ownership either knew or had reason to know that Gase would suck, or it was utterly negligent in hiring a loser like him in the first place. Either way, we, as fans, have been screwed yet again.

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6 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Right 

Yea I’m real pumped JD got us Kalil who gets trucked every game and brought in a Norwegian kicker who cost us the Bills game. The new regime is doing a “great job!”

Haiston = CB from the scrap heaps

Ficken = To take Vedvik spot

Farley, Griffin, Maulet, Basham, JFM, Phillips, DT, Lewis, Berrios.

Don't act like he has only made mistakes... He is literally building a team with leftovers from other teams... Some may turn out ok... Some will fail... 

Your hatred of JD is well documented. The impatience of this board is infuriating. Jets have made a sh*tload of mistakes this year. But you are blind to see that this is actually starting to head in the right direction if you gave it more then 3 games with 3 different starting QBs.

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17 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

 

See that doesn't make any sense. "Thank you for flying Patriot airways" but the plane clearly has a Jets logo on it. Julian Edelman you big dumb dumb.

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48 minutes ago, jgb said:

OP isn't wrong. The problem is that somehow a sizable percentage of the fanbase deluded themselves into having playoff expectations for this team. Those who kept that in check are not overreacting to the season's start, because it is precisely what was expected. Minus the whole mono thing, clearly.

true.  but the most frustrating part of this is that they really don't look like the other teams playing in the nfl.  they can't move the ball, can't protect, can't get first downs, can't make big plays, can't attack defenses.  we're nearly 1/4th of the year in and there are no highlight reel plays on offense.  none.  zero.

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3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

true.  but the most frustrating part of this is that they really don't look like the other teams playing in the nfl.  they can't move the ball, can't protect, can't get first downs, can't make big plays, can't attack defenses.  we're nearly 1/4th of the year in and there are no highlight reel plays on offense.  none.  zero.

We are definitely stinky. I cannot remember the last time in a critical moment I had any confidence in our offense at all to get it done.

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2 minutes ago, jgb said:

We are definitely stinky. I cannot remember the last time in a critical moment I had any confidence in our offense at all to get it done.

worse you can tell the offensive players have no faith either.  

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55 minutes ago, jgb said:

OP isn't wrong. The problem is that somehow a sizable percentage of the fanbase deluded themselves into having playoff expectations for this team. Those who kept that in check are not overreacting to the season's start, because it is precisely what was expected. Minus the whole mono thing, clearly.

This.

I posted here that 8-8 would be a remarkable record for this team.

The team has had a lot of bad breaks so far and the record and performance reflect it.

I'm not saying I like Gase but Geebuz Cripes, give him a full season at least.

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4 hours ago, Mike135 said:

 

The little steroid user is a cocky little prick. He's got busted up ribs, he's 34 going on 35, bets he doesn't make it to the end of the season after they play a few decent teams? Bills secondary & D will give them a game in Buffalo if Allen doesn't turn the ball over. 

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6 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Right 

Yea I’m real pumped JD got us Kalil who gets trucked every game and brought in a Norwegian kicker who cost us the Bills game. The new regime is doing a “great job!”

Yeah there were so many 25 yr old pro bowl options on the street in June to sign...:rolleyes:

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4 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Haiston = CB from the scrap heaps

Ficken = To take Vedvik spot

Farley, Griffin, Maulet, Basham, JFM, Phillips, DT, Lewis, Berrios.

Don't act like he has only made mistakes... He is literally building a team with leftovers from other teams... Some may turn out ok... Some will fail... 

Your hatred of JD is well documented. The impatience of this board is infuriating. Jets have made a sh*tload of mistakes this year. But you are blind to see that this is actually starting to head in the right direction if you gave it more then 3 games with 3 different starting QBs.

Basham was a waiver claim last season

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Even if the Jets had the worst offensive personnel in the league (which they don't), the results of the first 3 games should be embarrassing to anyone who considers themselves a professional, including both the coaching staff and the players.  Non competitive for THREE weeks!!!  Every coach involved in the offense needs to look in the mirror.

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6 hours ago, Jetster said:

I have to say I'm shocked of the reactions on this board to our 0-3 start. Have the games been unwatchable? Yes, but there is a bright side to the start of the 2019 season, Macc is gone & Joe Douglas is in charge. For 3 years I've seen the same people calling for Maccs head because he sucked balls, missed on pretty much every draft pick & signed Trumaine Johnson to a 70 million dollar contract, totally ignored the Oline for 4 straight years including this last draft until he took Edoga. 

So, under this framework to start the season his starting QB played with Mono, Mosely got hurt & the defense crumbled because the backup LB was a rookie because Avery Williamson was lost for the year in preseason. We played 3 of the best defenses to start the year, we played yesterday's game (a place that we haven't won a game in 9 years with a 3rd string QB). This team has 15 drafted players on it, lowest in the entire league & their depth was as thin as celaphane B4 they played without 8 starters yesterday. 

Go back in the history of the NFL & show me another new Head Coach dealt a hand like this to start a season. It's hard enough to install all new systems let alone trying to do it with new faces every week. This is a blessing in disguise because every individual player is now exposed & there is nowhere to hide. This team will be transformed over the next 3 years with Douglas here. Just imagine that we have the 2nd highest paid offensive line in the NFL after watching this sh*tshow for three games now. 

Here the Real Reality check: Quincy Enunwa (Overpaid Jag/ Will be gone), Robbie Anderson (Skinny stick/dumbazz/maybe a 3rd WR will be gone), Trumaine Johnson (Biggest waste of money & roster spot I can remember/Gone), Kelvin Beachum (11 million dollar turnstile/Gone), Brian Winters (The final Jag of the Idzik debacle, Gone), Kalil (Finished/Gone). That's literally HALF of the starters on offense currently. Plus, KO, Shell, are just average now. 

This team was picked to finish between 31st & 27th by most pundants before the season started, remember that? You guys act like Gase was given a team ranked 15th to start the season. I don't remember a more snakebit Jets team since 1986 when they were 10-1 & lost like 5 guys in 1 week & finished with 5 straight losses, and that team had way more talent on offense than this one. 

Im not going to judge Gase until we can put together an Oline that isn't the 2nd coming of the one that Macc & his cronies built in Houston that ruined David Carrs career. Talk about history repeating itself! A lot of guys are playing as hard as they can, slackers are being called out & rightfully so, and JD is getting a good look at who he needs to start culling over the next 3 years. Our Jets have hit rock bottom finally after 10 years of the most horrifically bad drafting I've ever seen in the NFL. Only this time we still have a 22 year old young QB with huge upside. We need to keep this kid from getting killed while JD goes to work this offseason. This Oline has 3 Wayne Hunters & KO and a below average RT in Shell. Maybe it starts in the 2020 draft with the Georgia LT, this ressurection project will be the toughest thing Joe Douglas has ever been associated with but Philly didn't want to lose him for a reason. I believe in JD until I don't. 

Go Jets. I'm so disappointed big changes are right around the corner. These guys have to see exactly what we've been seeing for 8 years & they'll be a 100% change in philosophy starting as soon as this season ends. It's like a bandaid was just ripped off in the 1st three games exposing the wounds festering on this team.

some good points.  i'm sure most jets fans are plenty impatient to see this team succeed.  that doesn't help things.  gase was brought in as the offensive guru and thus far he hasn't done well.  granted darnold is out but even so his offense should be able to average 15 points per game.   bell is being wasted.  and both the bills game and the browns game was winnable.

i think things will work out mainly because they will start getting better players through the draft but it may also mean another very bad year record wise.

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6 hours ago, Jetster said:

I have to say I'm shocked of the reactions on this board to our 0-3 start. Have the games been unwatchable? Yes, but there is a bright side to the start of the 2019 season, Macc is gone & Joe Douglas is in charge. this team.

shorter version" ESPN ranked us 31st out of 32 rosters.  most of the players stink.

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9 minutes ago, rangerous said:

some good points.  i'm sure most jets fans are plenty impatient to see this team succeed.  that doesn't help things.  gase was brought in as the offensive guru and thus far he hasn't done well.  granted darnold is out but even so his offense should be able to average 15 points per game.   bell is being wasted.  and both the bills game and the browns game was winnable.

i think things will work out mainly because they will start getting better players through the draft but it may also mean another very bad year record wise.

JD has to repair this Oline, I've never seen anything like it, but WHY ARE WE SURPRISED? It was 1 of the #1 complaints from Jet fans that for 8 years this Oline has been ignored. But they've all gotten WORSE. Beachum started out AVERAGE when he 1st entered the league. Jax let him go for a reason. Look at the guy, he obviously is not a weight room warrior, he's soft as sh*t, has always been terrible at run blocking & he's being used as a blocking sled to get to the QB. I can't even evaluate KO because Beachum & Winters are so bad, defenses are taking advantage of their weaknesses. Kalil has been a HORROR SHOW, JD took a shot & missed badly. That's what happens when your picking from the scrap heap & desperate. That's THREE horrible lineman 3/5th are Terrible. Now add Shell who 75% of this board want Edoga to take over for & there you have it, 4 out of the 5 starting Oline are no good. 

You can't operate an offense like that. David Carr was almost killed behind a similar situation & the same thing will happen to Darnold if its not rectified. So, you have a totally inept line, skill players at WR that can't separate, a long ball stickman that the QB has no time to wait for to get open deep & your TE (probably the best TE in the AFC East is suspended). And fans are like, whats the game plan? Mix it up, go deep, blah, blah, blah. 

We just came through 3 games that most thought we'd be 1-2 after, we're 0-3. Even Pats fans are saying (I have many Pats fan friends) that this is the best Pats D they've seen in a long time. So no, I'm not surprised some 3rd string QB with a weak arm playing behind 4 turnstiles couldn't muster up an offensive show. 

I'll judge these guys with their starting QB, hopefully 1 or 2 of their THREE LBs back from injury & suspension, Herndon back, and against competition more equal to their own. Right now, the Bills, Browns & obviously the Patriots are ahead of the Jets who are literally in the middle/beginning of a rebuild. Brown just went toe to toe with the Rams (last years NFC winner), and we all know that team would be a huge mismatch with the Jets. The 3 teams they played are currently 7-2 with two of them undefeated. 

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2 hours ago, Jetster said:

JD has to repair this Oline, I've never seen anything like it, but WHY ARE WE SURPRISED? It was 1 of the #1 complaints from Jet fans that for 8 years this Oline has been ignored. But they've all gotten WORSE. Beachum started out AVERAGE when he 1st entered the league. Jax let him go for a reason. Look at the guy, he obviously is not a weight room warrior, he's soft as sh*t, has always been terrible at run blocking & he's being used as a blocking sled to get to the QB. I can't even evaluate KO because Beachum & Winters are so bad, defenses are taking advantage of their weaknesses. Kalil has been a HORROR SHOW, JD took a shot & missed badly. That's what happens when your picking from the scrap heap & desperate. That's THREE horrible lineman 3/5th are Terrible. Now add Shell who 75% of this board want Edoga to take over for & there you have it, 4 out of the 5 starting Oline are no good. 

You can't operate an offense like that. David Carr was almost killed behind a similar situation & the same thing will happen to Darnold if its not rectified. So, you have a totally inept line, skill players at WR that can't separate, a long ball stickman that the QB has no time to wait for to get open deep & your TE (probably the best TE in the AFC East is suspended). And fans are like, whats the game plan? Mix it up, go deep, blah, blah, blah. 

We just came through 3 games that most thought we'd be 1-2 after, we're 0-3. Even Pats fans are saying (I have many Pats fan friends) that this is the best Pats D they've seen in a long time. So no, I'm not surprised some 3rd string QB with a weak arm playing behind 4 turnstiles couldn't muster up an offensive show. 

I'll judge these guys with their starting QB, hopefully 1 or 2 of their THREE LBs back from injury & suspension, Herndon back, and against competition more equal to their own. Right now, the Bills, Browns & obviously the Patriots are ahead of the Jets who are literally in the middle/beginning of a rebuild. Brown just went toe to toe with the Rams (last years NFC winner), and we all know that team would be a huge mismatch with the Jets. The 3 teams they played are currently 7-2 with two of them undefeated. 

good points. i think we're all surprised because they've gotten worse.  beachum, winters, and shell (all barely average) have been around for a few season.  they add osemele and kalil, change to a zone blocking scheme and it's a mess.  i can see kalil needed to get some rust off but the rest of the guys should've have come out better and then all should have improved over the past few games.  i think gase needs to shake this up and see if the young guys can play better.  it's hard to see how they can play worse.

unfortunately int's going to take two good drafts to remove most of the stink mac put on this team.

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