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RonaldJet

Sam Darnold/Blake Bortles comprision

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5 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Overall, I agree with all of this.

One thing, and I wouldn't even fight you that hard on it, is that I'm not terribly worried about the wins next year.  Our schedule, today at least, looks much more difficult, and I don't think all the problems of this team can be resolved in one offseason. 

You're right, we can't fix everything, just look at my plan in the other thread today (the "What do you do on 12/31/19" thread).  

With that said, here is the problem about not worrying about wins:  5-11, 5-11, 4-12, 5-11.  That's our likely record 2016-2019.

If we go 5-11 again in 2020, the Johnson's might just have a conniption fit and start tearing down everything yet again.  We have to show improvement to warrant investment.  And that includes wins.  Darnold winning only 14 games in three years is a bad look.  He needs to will this team to 8-8 next year.  It's just gotta happen.

If we go the route I think we need to, and I think Douglas will, I'm far more confidant we can do an 8-8 or better year.  If we do those things, and again, fail to win 6 games......

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1 minute ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

You have to be a troll haha.

Darnold has played with the weakest offensive unit in the NFL for close to 2 years now.  Bortles had players around him and also protection.

Not only does Darnold run for his life virtually every time he drops back but he also usually has to hit a pass into a window the size of a thimble (see last night 1st TD pass, window smaller than a thimble) because his receivers rarely get ANY kind of separation.  The situation Darnold has been in since Day 1 is the exact OPPOSITE of what a Mahomes or Jackson has been in since their Day 1...Darnold has had to “play in Hell”.

I don’t bother to look at Darnold’s stats at this point, because it’s worthless due to the teams he has played on.  What I do though is look at some of the throws he has hit, many that MOST QBs in the NFL can not, Bortles?? Forget it.  You give him a million years he couldn’t duplicate some of the plays Darnold has made.

Does Darnold still have some leaks in his game?  Absolutely.  Can they be corrected?  Will they maybe just go away with better personnel and more experience?  There is a good chance.

You know there is 1 stat you threw up there that I will look at.  Completion % 60%....Darnold is far from Capt Checkdown Chad Pennington...that 60% might well turn into close to 70% playing with real NFL players in the future.  And that’s from a kid who has been forced to play lots of schoolyard ball because he has almost never had any protection.  60% at this point is outstanding.

Perspective...you put Mark Sanchez in Darnold’s shoes since Day 1...and no exaggeration I doubt he completes 35% of his passes. 

he is just a troll.  He posts one dumb thread after the other then just disappears to bait people.  I guess I fall for it 

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2 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Sorry, I don't trust anyone trying to compare things who can't even spell the word comparison.

 

It's French.

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3 hours ago, RonaldJet said:

Lets look at their first two years (both third overall picks)

Bortles

635/1081 58% 7336 Yds 6.8 YPA 46 TD 35 INT

Darnold

473/793 60% 5507 Yds 6.9 YPA 34 TD 27 INT

 

Darnold is the next Blake Bortles IMO. Big athletic kid who can’t really read a defense. Bortles is a much more dangerous with his legs, and Darnold is slightly more accurate on short passes. 
 

I hope I’m wrong about Sam, but I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. The kid is a likely bust and I’d advise all Jets fans not to get emotionally attached to him. He’s not going to be the QB of the team three years from now. 

 

Stats from the first 2 years on horrific rosters mean Dick, so go eat a bag of them.

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5 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Reality is Darnold came in as a 20 year old player who had basically a year and half starting experience in college.  He only started playing quarterback i believe his Junior year of high school, so we're talking about a kid that prior to his first NFL start had 3.5 years of QB experience prior to taking his first NFL snap. 

First good post, so don't take what I say next as criticism per se, please. :)

But I wanted to touch on the "Darnold is only 22 and only played three days at QB in college" thing. 

I simply do not see this as a defense or reason or excuse (pick your preferred word).

If a GM picked a High School kid to come play Linebacker, and he clearly wasn't ready to play, no one would say 'well, he's only 16 and only started playing Lineback five days ago".  They would expect a pro to be ready to be a pro, otherwise they would criticize the kid for coming out too early and the GM for selecting a not-ready prospect and playing them too early.  Rightfully so!

Every time I hear "Darnold is only...." I cringe.  If he wasn't ready to be a Pro, then he should have stayed in college.  If the Jets thought he wasn't ready, he shouldn't have been starting from day 1.  If his lack of QB experience made him not ready, etc, etc, etc.

The #1 QB job is just that, a job.  Fans, rightfully, expect players doing that job to be ready to do it.  Not to spend two years learning how to do it.  His being too young or too inexperienced is not an excuse, it's (frankly) a mistake by management.  If he wasn't ready to play, we should have, and be playing, someone else.

Now, let me be clear, I think Darnold IS ready to play, has enough experience, and his age is not relevant IMO to his playing now.  So I do not fault management for playing him, I supported it.  But by that same line of reasoning, I also do not excuse his play because of age.  he is the #1 QB of an NFL Football team.  He has a job to do.  He needs to do it.  22 or 42, he needs to do it.  We don't get free points for his age, so his age doesn't matter.  And 22 or 26, both ages still have "time to improve", so that's not relevant either.

I don;t know, I just tire of this excuse tbqh.  No one in any other job would ever get the "well, he's only 22" excuse card.  

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

First good post, so don't take what I say next as criticism per se, please. :)

But I wanted to touch on the "Darnold is only 22 and only played three days at QB in college" thing. 

I simply do not see this as a defense or reason or excuse (pick your preferred word).

If a GM picked a High School kid to come play Linebacker, and he clearly wasn't ready to play, no one would say 'well, he's only 16 and only started playing Lineback five days ago".  They would expect a pro to be ready to be a pro, otherwise they would criticize the kid for coming out too early and the GM for selecting a not-ready prospect and playing them too early.  Rightfully so!

Every time I hear "Darnold is only...." I cringe.  If he wasn't ready to be a Pro, then he should have stayed in college.  If the Jets thought he wasn't ready, he shouldn't have been starting from day 1.  If his lack of QB experience made him not ready, etc, etc, etc.

The #1 QB job is just that, a job.  Fans, rightfully, expect players doing that job to be ready to do it.  Not to spend two years learning how to do it.  His being too young or too inexperienced is not an excuse, it's (frankly) a mistake by management.  If he wasn't ready to play, we should have, and be playing, someone else.

Now, let me be clear, I think Darnold IS ready to play, has enough experience, and his age is not relevant IMO to his playing now.  So I do not fault management for playing him, I supported it.  But by that same line of reasoning, I also do not excuse his play because of age.  he is the #1 QB of an NFL Football team.  He has a job to do.  He needs to do it.  22 or 42, he needs to do it.  We don't get free points for his age, so his age doesn't matter.  And 22 or 26, both ages still have "time to improve", so that's not relevant either.

I don;t know, I just tire of this excuse tbqh.  No one in any other job would ever get the "well, he's only 22" excuse card.  

I dont think its a excuse.  I think its true.  Not just for sam but for others as well.  Not everyone catches fire right away also not everyone gets lucky enough to play is a good situation right away. Right now Sam is not in a good situation compared to Josh Allen and Lamar.  I think that's more where the "whole he is only 22" thing comes from

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3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

First good post, so don't take what I say next as criticism per se, please. :)

But I wanted to touch on the "Darnold is only 22 and only played three days at QB in college" thing. 

I simply do not see this as a defense or reason or excuse (pick your preferred word).

If a GM picked a High School kid to come play Linebacker, and he clearly wasn't ready to play, no one would say 'well, he's only 16 and only started playing Lineback five days ago".  They would expect a pro to be ready to be a pro, otherwise they would criticize the kid for coming out too early and the GM for selecting a not-ready prospect and playing them too early.  Rightfully so!

Every time I hear "Darnold is only...." I cringe.  If he wasn't ready to be a Pro, then he should have stayed in college.  If the Jets thought he wasn't ready, he shouldn't have been starting from day 1.  If his lack of QB experience made him not ready, etc, etc, etc.

The #1 QB job is just that, a job.  Fans, rightfully, expect players doing that job to be ready to do it.  Not to spend two years learning how to do it.  His being too young or too inexperienced is not an excuse, it's (frankly) a mistake by management.  If he wasn't ready to play, we should have, and be playing, someone else.

Now, let me be clear, I think Darnold IS ready to play, has enough experience, and his age is not relevant IMO to his playing now.  So I do not fault management for playing him, I supported it.  But by that same line of reasoning, I also do not excuse his play because of age.  he is the #1 QB of an NFL Football team.  He has a job to do.  He needs to do it.  22 or 42, he needs to do it.  We don't get free points for his age, so his age doesn't matter.  And 22 or 26, both ages still have "time to improve", so that's not relevant either.

I don;t know, I just tire of this excuse tbqh.  No one in any other job would ever get the "well, he's only 22" excuse card.  

maybe youre misreading my meaning by my comments.  I am not excusing his play due to his age, I am merely pointing out that the normal learning curve of a QB in the league may not apply directly to what Darnold is going through right now because of said age.  

He is ready to play, there is no doubt about that, and he has had success in spurts which shows a glimmer of all the things I talked about in my previous post.  The mistakes, success, failures have nothing to do with his age.  

For me the only reason I pull up the age thing is because mechanically, physically, and sometimes mentally the learning curve is different based on experience level and age.  So while we may look at next year (being his 3rd year) as the defining year to make a good evaluation on whether he was a "bust" or "success"  that may not directly apply to him the same way it may apply to a quarterback coming out of college who started 4 years and is in him mid 20s.  I merely use the "age card" as you say as a filter in my analysis of certain developmental traits that are projectable going forward. 

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Why do people get so worked up anytime someone says that maybe Sam won’t live up to the hype?  If you are so confident he will be a stud, you shouldn’t need to be so defensive.  

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First Favre, now Bortles. Why do people feel the need to be extreme both ways?

Truth be told, I think Darnold will end up somewhere in the middle. Not elite, but not bottom tier either. To me, I just don't think that he'll never be type of QB to carry bad teams, but he has the talent to take good teams far (without giving the feeling that the team is carrying him ala Dak Prescott)

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4 hours ago, RonaldJet said:

Lets look at their first two years (both third overall picks)

Bortles

635/1081 58% 7336 Yds 6.8 YPA 46 TD 35 INT

Darnold

473/793 60% 5507 Yds 6.9 YPA 34 TD 27 INT

 

Darnold is the next Blake Bortles IMO. Big athletic kid who can’t really read a defense. Bortles is a much more dangerous with his legs, and Darnold is slightly more accurate on short passes. 
 

I hope I’m wrong about Sam, but I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. The kid is a likely bust and I’d advise all Jets fans not to get emotionally attached to him. He’s not going to be the QB of the team three years from now. 

 

This guy is obviously a troll and should be banned. I'll just put him on ignore.

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Funny I was actually thinking this not too long ago.  Bortles is a guy I remember showing flashes, followed by boneheaded plays, a lot like what we're seeing now.  Remember when Bortles had that one big season, he still had a ton of turnovers and was being compared to Favre.  

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8 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

Why do people get so worked up anytime someone says that maybe Sam won’t live up to the hype?  If you are so confident he will be a stud, you shouldn’t need to be so defensive.  

I don't think its being defensive.  Most are fair about things he needs to work on.  However some do go overboard with the negativity which seems agenda driven

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4 hours ago, RonaldJet said:

Lets look at their first two years (both third overall picks)

Bortles

635/1081 58% 7336 Yds 6.8 YPA 46 TD 35 INT

Darnold

473/793 60% 5507 Yds 6.9 YPA 34 TD 27 INT

 

Darnold is the next Blake Bortles IMO. Big athletic kid who can’t really read a defense. Bortles is a much more dangerous with his legs, and Darnold is slightly more accurate on short passes. 
 

I hope I’m wrong about Sam, but I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. The kid is a likely bust and I’d advise all Jets fans not to get emotionally attached to him. He’s not going to be the QB of the team three years from now. 

 

Ok That will do it. 

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4 hours ago, RonaldJet said:

Lets look at their first two years (both third overall picks)

Bortles

635/1081 58% 7336 Yds 6.8 YPA 46 TD 35 INT

Darnold

473/793 60% 5507 Yds 6.9 YPA 34 TD 27 INT

 

Darnold is the next Blake Bortles IMO. Big athletic kid who can’t really read a defense. Bortles is a much more dangerous with his legs, and Darnold is slightly more accurate on short passes. 
 

I hope I’m wrong about Sam, but I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. The kid is a likely bust and I’d advise all Jets fans not to get emotionally attached to him. He’s not going to be the QB of the team three years from now. 

 

Its sad that anyone is allowed to make threads. Read your own stat lines, Junior. And when you are done, go watch some football. 

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These comparisons of Darnold through two seasons to other QBs through 2 seasons are ridiculous.  You can find a QB to support whatever your view of Sam is.  Are his numbers similar to Blake Bortles?  Yes.  But guess what, they are also similar to Drew Brees after two seasons.  I am fairly confident is stating that Sam's career will fall somehwere between Bortles and Brees.

Bottom line is that none of us know how he will develop from here on out.  He has shown some flashes, but has also made some maddening mistakes.  He has been incredibly inconsistent.  Within games and from game to game.  As a Jet fan I am rooting for him and trying to grab on to the positive flashes to have some optimism heading into next year. 

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47 minutes ago, Warfish said:

First good post, so don't take what I say next as criticism per se, please. :)

But I wanted to touch on the "Darnold is only 22 and only played three days at QB in college" thing. 

I simply do not see this as a defense or reason or excuse (pick your preferred word).

If a GM picked a High School kid to come play Linebacker, and he clearly wasn't ready to play, no one would say 'well, he's only 16 and only started playing Lineback five days ago".  They would expect a pro to be ready to be a pro, otherwise they would criticize the kid for coming out too early and the GM for selecting a not-ready prospect and playing them too early.  Rightfully so!

Every time I hear "Darnold is only...." I cringe.  If he wasn't ready to be a Pro, then he should have stayed in college.  If the Jets thought he wasn't ready, he shouldn't have been starting from day 1.  If his lack of QB experience made him not ready, etc, etc, etc.

The #1 QB job is just that, a job.  Fans, rightfully, expect players doing that job to be ready to do it.  Not to spend two years learning how to do it.  His being too young or too inexperienced is not an excuse, it's (frankly) a mistake by management.  If he wasn't ready to play, we should have, and be playing, someone else.

Now, let me be clear, I think Darnold IS ready to play, has enough experience, and his age is not relevant IMO to his playing now.  So I do not fault management for playing him, I supported it.  But by that same line of reasoning, I also do not excuse his play because of age.  he is the #1 QB of an NFL Football team.  He has a job to do.  He needs to do it.  22 or 42, he needs to do it.  We don't get free points for his age, so his age doesn't matter.  And 22 or 26, both ages still have "time to improve", so that's not relevant either.

I don;t know, I just tire of this excuse tbqh.  No one in any other job would ever get the "well, he's only 22" excuse card.  

On the bright side, I think his birthday is in July? So this will all end then.

By the start of TC, it will be “he’s still only 23. Just a baby...”

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6 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

On the bright side, I think his birthday is in July? So this will all end then.

By the start of TC, it will be “he’s still only 23. Just a baby...”

I cant believe saying he is still young and learning bothers some so much lol

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Just now, Jets723 said:

I cant believe saying he is still young and learning bothers some so much lol

Doesn't bother me, I just reject it as a reason/excuse for his reduced production.

If being 22 is too young to play NFL QB and be judged like a #1 NFL QB, he shouldn't be playing, he should be sitting, learning, growing older, till he is "old enough".

Personally, I think that is bollocks myself, he is old enough, hence his age is of no relevance to me, he gets judged for the job he is tasked to do (#1 QB), not by his age.

Be assured, when he reaches year four of his contract, and the team is deciding what to do with him, no one in the front office is going to say "well, he's only 24, so we really have to extend him another five years at (massive number) because we just can't judge his first four years here, too young".

The clock is ticking on Sam in NYC, 22, 23 or 103.  That decision date comes regardless.

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2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Doesn't bother me, I just reject it as a reason/excuse for his reduced production.

If being 22 is too young to play NFL QB and be judged like a #1 NFL QB, he shouldn't be playing, he should be sitting, learning, growing older, till he is "old enough".

Personally, I think that is bollocks myself, he is old enough, hence his age is of no relevance to me, he gets judged for the job he is tasked to do (#1 QB), not by his age.

Be assured, when he reaches year four of his contract, and the team is deciding what to do with him, no one in the front office is going to say "well, he's only 24, so we really have to extend him another five years at (massive number) because we just can't judge his first four years here, too young".

The clock is ticking on Sam in NYC, 22, 23 or 103.  That decision date comes regardless.

I just think it is overreacting a bit.  I don't see people saying tha fery two seconds.   Even if they were its not really a big deal.  He is young that's the truth.  Nobody has vere said he has been flawless.  In fact the majority of us who I guess are positive about Sam have been very objective about his issues 

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4 hours ago, RonaldJet said:

Lets look at their first two years (both third overall picks)

Bortles

635/1081 58% 7336 Yds 6.8 YPA 46 TD 35 INT

Darnold

473/793 60% 5507 Yds 6.9 YPA 34 TD 27 INT

 

Darnold is the next Blake Bortles IMO. Big athletic kid who can’t really read a defense. Bortles is a much more dangerous with his legs, and Darnold is slightly more accurate on short passes. 
 

I hope I’m wrong about Sam, but I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. The kid is a likely bust and I’d advise all Jets fans not to get emotionally attached to him. He’s not going to be the QB of the team three years from now. 

 

You are wrong about everything you post.  Borders on idiocy.

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4 hours ago, Jets723 said:

A bust is someone who really does next to nothing .  That's not the case with Sam he has shown some really good flashes.  

Not related to my feelings on Sam, but 'flashes' is the one dumbest things people say about players. All players in the NFL can show flashes. You don't get signed to a team if you're not able to show 'flashes'. Consistency is what matters. 

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53 minutes ago, King P said:

First Favre, now Bortles. Why do people feel the need to be extreme both ways?

Truth be told, I think Darnold will end up somewhere in the middle. Not elite, but not bottom tier either. To me, I just don't think that he'll never be type of QB to carry bad teams, but he has the talent to take good teams far (without giving the feeling that the team is carrying him ala Dak Prescott)

He reminds me of Tony Romo. Lots of stupid bonehead mistakes in between crazy sick passes. He wasn't a great QB until he got a stud RB and 5 stud OL.  

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Bortles was prototype. Sam not so much. Sam will be better.

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9 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

Not related to my feelings on Sam, but 'flashes' is the one dumbest things people say about players. All players in the NFL can show flashes. You don't get signed to a team if you're not able to show 'flashes'. Consistency is what matters. 

No sh*t.  I think you misinterpreted 

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Again, I don't know what Darnold will become, but had one bad pass that was a miscommunication between him and the 4th string TE that has zero chemistry with him.

One.

With this sh*t roster/O-Line.

Against the best team in the NFL.

One.

What did you people expect yesterday, for real?

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2 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Again, I don't know what Darnold will become, but had one bad pass that was a miscommunication between him and the 4th string TE that has zero chemistry with him.

One.

With this sh*t roster/O-Line.

Against the best team in the NFL.

One.

What did you people expect yesterday, for real?

Agreed.  And he still played well outside of the one bad throw to our 4th string TE

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Bortles was on much better teams talent wise immediately in his career. Much better coaches also. That said, Bortles can't even hold Sam's jock strap. Darnold > Bortles.

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4 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Overall, I agree with all of this.

One thing, and I wouldn't even fight you that hard on it, is that I'm not terribly worried about the wins next year.  Our schedule, today at least, looks much more difficult, and I don't think all the problems of this team can be resolved in one offseason.  So, I'll be looking for the same thing I'm looking for this year, that we didn't really get, and that's improved decision making.  YOLO Balls and throws to no one have to be all but gone, and a bad supporting cast isn't an excuse for this.  He needs to show he can do more than roll out, minimizing the decisions he needs to make, and throw to the one guy in his sight.  I don't really care about overall record if he does that.  Wins will follow good play, but it's gonna take more than a season to make up for just how bad a job Macc did.

+1

Brees was annihilating record books - averaging 5100+ yards and 37 TDs while completing 68% - while the Saints won just 7 games/season with him 4x over a fairly recent 5-year span. Were they losers because Brees wasn't a good enough QB? That's hard to sell. 

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43 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Again, I don't know what Darnold will become, but had one bad pass that was a miscommunication between him and the 4th string TE that has zero chemistry with him.

One.

With this sh*t roster/O-Line.

Against the best team in the NFL.

One.

What did you people expect yesterday, for real?

one thing i liked about the broadcast is that they actually showed things from darnold's perspective and didn't just trash him.  with the overthrow on the sideline, they showed the replay that #16 slowed his route.  on the pick, they noted it seemed like a miscommunication.  on the failed 4th and 1, they showed the replay and noted it was PI.  

bottom line, circumstances and other players have a big role in how the qb performs.  i don't understand why so many here think that darnold should be playing so much better when he's constantly running for his life with a spleen protector throwing to 2 legit wrs and crap.  

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1 hour ago, Big_Slick said:

This guy is obviously a troll and should be banned. I'll just put him on ignore.

I did that several days ago 

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1 hour ago, Jets723 said:

I don't think its being defensive.  Most are fair about things he needs to work on.  However some do go overboard with the negativity which seems agenda driven

Just as many people are overboard with positivity as there are negativity.  

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10 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

Just as many people are overboard with positivity as there are negativity.  

Not really 

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