McCarthy

[Stark]

4 hours ago, Maxman said:

He is 2 and 6. Gase is 0 and 8.

The math proves it, he would have been a much better choice. 

200%

[bostonmajet]

3 hours ago, SAR I said:

Adam Gase looks on-par with Bill Belichick this year.

While not terrific, it speaks volumes.  

SAR I

they have 2 more wins than us (that is infinite btw); they were in two games against quality teams until the very end (buffalo and Seattle) and only got blown out in one. We are a joke and a laughing stock. Par? "I don't think that word means what you think it means"

[OilfieldJet]

Not sure I agree with the McCarthy hate. He has a fairly long career and a successful one. Yes, he benefited from HoF QB's, but then, so did all of Dan Marino's coaches. What stands out to me was a reasonable record as an OC before taking the HC position at Green Bay.

McCarthy became the offensive coordinator of the New Orleans Saints. He would remain in that position for five seasons and was selected as NFC Assistant Coach of the Year by USA Today in 2000. New Orleans would finish 10th, 13th, 3rd in 2002, 14th, and 14th in points scored during his tenure as offensive coordinator.

 

It seems like at the least Sam would have a chance to learn and grow under a guy like McCarthy. Hell, any Coach who could bring some professionalism to this putrid organization would be welcome.

[Jet2020]

23 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

A lot of guys here wanted him over Gase.   He is now 2-6 despite Prescott and Elliott and a host of receivers.   Not defending Gase at all, but do the guys that wanted him still think he would have been a better choice?  Or just another sh*tty choice?

These two were the worse choices at the time who built their resumes off of future hall of fame QBs. 

[Jet2020]

52 minutes ago, OilfieldJet said:

Not sure I agree with the McCarthy hate. He has a fairly long career and a successful one. Yes, he benefited from HoF QB's, but then, so did all of Dan Marino's coaches. What stands out to me was a reasonable record as an OC before taking the HC position at Green Bay.

McCarthy became the offensive coordinator of the New Orleans Saints. He would remain in that position for five seasons and was selected as NFC Assistant Coach of the Year by USA Today in 2000. New Orleans would finish 10th, 13th, 3rd in 2002, 14th, and 14th in points scored during his tenure as offensive coordinator.

 

It seems like at the least Sam would have a chance to learn and grow under a guy like McCarthy. Hell, any Coach who could bring some professionalism to this putrid organization would be welcome.

When you miss wide open receivers, that’s not on the HC. I’ve made excuses for Sam for more than 2 years. But he proved this year that he’s not made out for the NFL. Good coaches or not. 
 

if you wanna see a QB Gase ruined vs a QB he didn’t have to ruin, just take a look at Tannehill vs Darnold.

Sorry, Darnold is not the future. Maybe backup material. 

[rillo]

Yes. 

[Sperm Edwards]

21 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I will not.  Gase rid us of Mike Maccagnan.  Build the statue now.

I think Maccagnan would have been fired before the 2020 season either way. All Gase did was accelerate it by 7-8 months because CJ was too nervous to do both a HC and GM search at the same time with him in charge. He's more or less admitted to as much publicly.  

CJ's idiocy and admitted incompetence aside, MM had surely been promising ownership that he was - and had been - building this team "the right way" with culture-smulture wordspeak since this QB-less GM took a ****ing safety with the 6th overall pick in 2017, over the best QB in NFL history, who believed himself that the Jets would take him at #6.

Fast-forward past May 2019 and the only thing that gave him a little more rope with which to hang himself was that he "lucked" into Darnold - the QB he coveted most of all - being there at #3 a year earlier. The presumption that Darnold would be great and this would erase all prior ills, making them all worthwhile. Except Darnold stinks, and - whether it was Gase or someone else - whatever leftover HC they hired after MM's "arranged marriage" prerequisite would have failed coaching Maccagnan's sorry excuse for a roster. His only serious attempt to improve the OL in 2019 was damaged goods that Oakland was thrilled to unload and actually get something in return for him. No his 3rd round pick wouldn't have been cut 4 months later but instead would have been on the bench bench with reports of how terrible he was on & off the practice field. 

All Gase did was get MM fired in May 2019 instead of January 2020. This past January Maccagnan would have been due another extension, which would have been an even harder sell than the last undeserved extension he got (along with Bowles) 2 years prior. 

[section314]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think Maccagnan would have been fired before the 2020 season either way. All Gase did was accelerate it by 7-8 months because CJ was too nervous to do both a HC and GM search at the same time with him in charge. He's more or less admitted to as much publicly.  

CJ's idiocy and admitted incompetence aside, MM had surely been promising ownership that he was - and had been - building this team "the right way" with culture-smulture wordspeak since this QB-less GM took a ****ing safety with the 6th overall pick in 2017, over the best QB in NFL history, who believed himself that the Jets would take him at #6.

Fast-forward past May 2019 and the only thing that gave him a little more rope with which to hang himself was that he "lucked" into Darnold - the QB he coveted most of all - being there at #3 a year earlier. The presumption that Darnold would be great and this would erase all prior ills, making them all worthwhile. Except Darnold stinks, and - whether it was Gase or someone else - whatever leftover HC they hired after MM's "arranged marriage" prerequisite would have failed coaching Maccagnan's sorry excuse for a roster. His only serious attempt to improve the OL in 2019 was damaged goods that Oakland was thrilled to unload and actually get something in return for him. No his 3rd round pick wouldn't have been cut 4 months later but instead would have been on the bench bench with reports of how terrible he was on & off the practice field. 

All Gase did was get MM fired in May 2019 instead of January 2020. This past January Maccagnan would have been due another extension, which would have been an even harder sell than the last undeserved extension he got (along with Bowles) 2 years prior. 

I really get the feeling that the two top choices the Jets had in mind for the HC gig, KK and Rhule, passed on it because they didn't think Sam was "the guy." KK had the easy out because he knew if he went to the Cardinals he was getting Murray. Even though the story on Rhule was he said no because the Jets were gonna pick his coaches, I think that was put out there for the team to save face on Darnold, and that Rhule probably told them he would want to go in another direction. That, and the Johnson's, of course.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, section314 said:

I really get the feeling that the two top choices the Jets had in mind for the HC gig, KK and Rhule, passed on it because they didn't think Sam was "the guy." KK had the easy out because he knew if he went to the Cardinals he was getting Murray. Even though the story on Rhule was he said no because the Jets were gonna pick his coaches, I think that was put out there for the team to save face on Darnold, and that Rhule probably told them he would want to go in another direction. That, and the Johnson's, of course.

Kingsbury maybe because of his preferred QB, and because Rosen was so bad he got the ok from management to dump him and start over with Murray, but Rhule was interested in the job until our FO made it so unattractive he ran away. Plus not for nothing, but they made it appear to KK's agent that he would be (like Gase) a fallback hire & that they wanted to interview others first. By the time that interview happened, Arizona had already made him feel wanted. 

Maccagnan had just drafted Darnold 8 months prior, had him on a cheap contract for 3 more seasons, and it was clear he was the Jets' QB. At the time, if anything, Darnold was the #1 draw for a good candidate. No one interviews here and then wonders aloud, "Excuse me Mr. Johnson and Mr. Maccagnan, but if I took this job, after giving up so much to be in a position to draft him, how married are you to Sam Darnold being the QB going forward?" 

The idea that there was an overwhelming but mostly silent consensus, on draft day, that Darnold was going to be a non-asset in the NFL is revisionist. Of course some thought so, but there were fewer people who "knew it" about Darnold than "knew it" a year before, that Mahomes was going to be a strong-armed bust and/or that Watson had too weak of an arm to compete at the NFL level. 

Rhule doesn't interview for the job and then not only turn it down but opt to stay at the collegiate level for another whole season after that. His public reason - and not a hard one to believe - was about the arranged marriage thing. 

KK you could at least argue was using us as leverage to up his dollars, as reports were that he'd already agreed to a position with the Cardinals by the time we interviewed him and was probably just going through the motions in case something unexpected (read: $$$) changed his mind. It didn't, never mind the idea that he couldn't hand-pick his own coordinators on top of that, and iirc he'd officially accepted the Cardinals job on or before the flight out after interviewing here. We'll never really know, but there was surely interest before the 2018 season ended. 

Those who truly had no interest - e.g. Harbaugh, plus who knows who else - turned down formal interviews outright. 

[OilfieldJet]

55 minutes ago, Jet2020 said:

When you miss wide open receivers, that’s not on the HC. I’ve made excuses for Sam for more than 2 years. But he proved this year that he’s not made out for the NFL. Good coaches or not. 
 

if you wanna see a QB Gase ruined vs a QB he didn’t have to ruin, just take a look at Tannehill vs Darnold.

Sorry, Darnold is not the future. Maybe backup material. 

I'm not smart enough to make an assessment of Sam's potential. I do believe that whatever his ceiling, he would be more likely to reach it under McCarthy than Gase.

[Smashmouth]

On 11/3/2020 at 8:46 AM, Bowles Movement said:

A lot of guys here wanted him over Gase.   He is now 2-6 despite Prescott and Elliott and a host of receivers.   Not defending Gase at all, but do the guys that wanted him still think he would have been a better choice?  Or just another sh*tty choice?

he would have been sh*t.

this team needs Jim Harbaugh and the reason for that is Im not sure this franchise can't take another shot in the dark on a head coach. We need a proven winner and Harbaugh did totally turn around a 49ers team that was Horrid under Singletary. His failures at Michigan I think is more a testament to his recruiting then his actual coaching ability. We get Harbaugh and Lawrence and use our haul of draft picks to grab some blue chip skill players and we win right away IMHO

[Jetsfan80]

5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

All Gase did was get MM fired in May 2019 instead of January 2020. This past January Maccagnan would have been due another extension, which would have been an even harder sell than the last undeserved extension he got (along with Bowles) 2 years prior. 

I'll take it!

And I would not have put it past the Johnson's to extend Macc, left to their own devices. 

Meanwhile, the Gase-recommended Joe Douglas is better than any GM candidate the Johnson's would have hired on their own.

[Philc1]

12 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'll take it!

And I would not have put it past the Johnson's to extend Macc, left to their own devices. 

Meanwhile, the Gase-recommended Joe Douglas is better than any GM candidate the Johnson's would have hired on their own.

Douglas’s record so far is mixed at best.  He made two good picks in the draft (Becton, Mims) and got a good haul for Adams.  His other moves have been meh to suck

 

I’m hoping he turns out to be good but his record so far is what it is

[T0mShane]

Shamed McCarthy/Jamal Adams panic-boys hiding out in spider holes like Saddam Hussein.

[Bowles Movement]

On 11/3/2020 at 10:48 AM, chirorob said:

I hate Dallas, so I'm not trying to make excuses for them.

3rd string qb.  Zeke is already on the downside, poor offensive line.  They aren't a good team.

Sounds like the same defenses of Gase.  OL not good.  Bell/Gore on the downside.  Darnold injured.

[Bowles Movement]

On 11/3/2020 at 11:42 AM, Maxman said:

He is 2 and 6. Gase is 0 and 8.

The math proves it, he would have been a much better choice. 

He is 2-6 in the weakest division in football.  Im not impressed

[Bowles Movement]

On 11/3/2020 at 11:59 AM, Warfish said:

If you're not defending Gase, what is the point of the thread?

We're the worst team in the NFL at 0-8, after starting last year 1-7, with a two-year historically bad Offense.

Literally anyone "would have been better", even you or me.

Does that mean McCarthey is any good?  Nope.  But he couldn't have been worse either....unless he figured out how to earn two losses per game instead of one, and didn't field an Offense at all.

I guess reading comprehension isnt your strong suit.

Ill say it again a little more slowly.

I asked if anybody here that wanted him hired still thinks McCarthy would have been a good hire.  I didnt ask if he would have been better than Gase.   Not grading on a curve compared to Gase.  If you didnt want him hired 2 years ago, then this doesnt apply to you.

Got it?

[Biggs]

Everyone who wanted McCarthy should be thrilled that Jones will probably fire him in the offseason and we can get him.

[GREENBEAN]

On 11/3/2020 at 9:46 AM, Bowles Movement said:

A lot of guys here wanted him over Gase.   He is now 2-6 despite Prescott and Elliott and a host of receivers.   Not defending Gase at all, but do the guys that wanted him still think he would have been a better choice?  Or just another sh*tty choice?

 I was 100% behind signing McCarthy.

I think Sam would not be regressing to the degree he is under McCarthy. He is disappointing to be sure, but it would all be about Sam. 

Plus we wouldn't have JD and Macc would most likely still be here. I don't think we were going to be able to climb out of the hole with him as the GM. So....  I think we would be better if he were chosen over Gase, but he would not have gotten us to where we needed to be most likely. 

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

52 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

 I was 100% behind signing McCarthy.

I think Sam would not be regressing to the degree he is under McCarthy. He is disappointing to be sure, but it would all be about Sam. 

 

Aaron f**king Rodgers regressed under Mike McCarthy.  Now that he's gone, Rodgers is back to being an MVP candidate.

Gase and McCarthy are both sh*tty coaches who were propped up by HOF QB's.  Period.  

[Losmeister]

45 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Aaron f**king Rodgers regressed under Mike McCarthy.  Now that he's gone, Rodgers is back to being an MVP candidate.

Gase and McCarthy are both sh*tty coaches who were propped up by HOF QB's.  Period.  

We can add Bill Belichick to that list.

51-65...

thats more than 7 full seasons....    losing HC w/o Brady.

[Jetsfan80]

13 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

We can add Bill Belichick to that list.

51-65...

thats more than 7 full seasons....    losing HC w/o Brady.

 

At least Belichick was an excellent DC.  Parcells had his best (and really, only) success as a HC when he had Belichick as his DC.

McCarthy and Gase, meanwhile, can't be trusted to touch anything in the NFL coaching ranks.  Not as HC's, OC's, QB Coaches or consultants.

[Losmeister]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

At least Belichick was an excellent DC.  Parcells had his best (and really, only) success as a HC when he had Belichick as his DC.

McCarthy and Gase, meanwhile, can't be trusted to touch anything in the NFL coaching ranks.  Not as HC's, OC's, QB Coaches or consultants.

you can attribute his record 43% wins as HC mostly to decent D. or it would be closer to 30%

was able to patch together a good D for Jets in 98 with duct tape and retreads mostly. 

played well for 2.5 quarters in Denver b4 it blew up

[jgb]

A better question is why were these two bad candidates the finalists for the job?

[chirorob]

On 11/3/2020 at 9:56 AM, JoJoTownsell1 said:

You should be Adam Gase's publicist. 

Is what I said incorrect?

Name a coach who wins with no QB and no O-Line?   

[chirorob]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

At least Belichick was an excellent DC.  Parcells had his best (and really, only) success as a HC when he had Belichick as his DC.

McCarthy and Gase, meanwhile, can't be trusted to touch anything in the NFL coaching ranks.  Not as HC's, OC's, QB Coaches or consultants.

Parcellss best characteristic was his ability to put together a great coaching staff.

He did also do a good job in turning around the Cowboys, (ironically drafting very well in Dallas) and if he had stayed 1 more year in Dallas he may have won a SB.

[Warfish]

4 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

I guess reading comprehension isnt your strong suit.

Ill say it again a little more slowly.

I asked if anybody here that wanted him hired still thinks McCarthy would have been a good hire.  I didnt ask if he would have been better than Gase.   Not grading on a curve compared to Gase.  If you didnt want him hired 2 years ago, then this doesnt apply to you.

Got it?

[varjet]

Bowles needed to go because he could not hire adequate offensive coaching for the new QB of the future, Darnold.  At least that is what we thought at the time, although Morton and Bates were better than Gase.

The Jets were not ready for Rhule.  Realistically it was between Gase and McCarthy.  Neither was going to be the next 10 year coach, or even 5 year coach.  One of them needed to develop Darnold and an offense.   Williams would deal with the defense.

We have seen articles written years ago to the effect that Gase is an offensive fraud.  McCarthy was no bargain, but he would have done a better job with Darnold and the offense.   So, this was another bad decision by the Johnsons-the worst of two bad options.  My guess is that it came down to money. 

[jgb]

Just now, varjet said:

Bowles needed to go because he could not hire adequate offensive coaching for the new QB of the future, Darnold.  At least that is what we thought at the time, although Morton and Bates were better than Gase.

The Jets were not ready for Rhule.  Realistically it was between Gase and McCarthy.  Neither was going to be the next 10 year coach, or even 5 year coach.  One of them needed to develop Darnold and an offense.   Williams would deal with the defense.

We have seen articles written years ago to the effect that Gase is an offensive fraud.  McCarthy was no bargain, but I would have done a better job with Darnold and the offense.   So, this was another bad decision by the Johnsons-the best the worst of two bad options.  My guess is that it came down to money. 

What does “not ready for Rhule mean?” Not ready for a good HC? Hogwash. More Jets fans emotional safety blanketing.

[varjet]

48 minutes ago, jgb said:

What does “not ready for Rhule mean?” Not ready for a good HC? Hogwash. More Jets fans emotional safety blanketing.

A college coach wanting to hire a staff of college coaches after the experience of Bowles and the staff that he hired.  

I think the Rhule and Kingsbury hire look great in retrospect, but the college coaches in the NFL experience has not historically been great.  But I think in the future we are going to see more of that.  It actually does not make much sense for a university to pay its HC more than an NFL team would-it obviously makes sense because colleges make money off of football, but so does the NFL. 

[GREENBEAN]

10 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Aaron f**king Rodgers regressed under Mike McCarthy.  Now that he's gone, Rodgers is back to being an MVP candidate.

Gase and McCarthy are both sh*tty coaches who were propped up by HOF QB's.  Period.  

lol 

Revisionist history dude. I'll give you the regression at the end there but let's remember McCarthy was the guy who gave Rodgers his start over Favre which most coaches would never have the balls to do in the first place. And then Rodgers had all of his success under McCarthy.  Say what you'd like about the last 2 years, but there was plenty of success with the pair. 

Gase barely had a whiff of success until he ended up with an established Manning and has done nothing since.  They are not in the same stratosphere of suck.  McCarthy was a Qb coach for 5 years and an OC for 5 years before becoming a HC. Gase? Not exactly the same lengthy track record.  Never a QB coach and only an OC for 3 years IIRC. 

I'm all in for realizing McCarthy would not have been the answer here even though I thought otherwise, but being propped up is not exactly what I would call a guy who was successful for 4 orgs and numerous QB's. 

Take it down a notch sugar plumbs 

[funaz]

A lot of guys are stupid. Mccarthy was not the answer but either was gase

A lot of guys here wanted him over Gase.   He is now 2-6 despite Prescott and Elliott and a host of receivers.   Not defending Gase at all, but do the guys that wanted him still think he would have been a better choice?  Or just another sh*tty choice?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

A college coach wanting to hire a staff of college coaches after the experience of Bowles and the staff that he hired.  

I think the Rhule and Kingsbury hire look great in retrospect, but the college coaches in the NFL experience has not historically been great.  But I think in the future we are going to see more of that.  It actually does not make much sense for a university to pay its HC more than an NFL team would-it obviously makes sense because colleges make money off of football, but so does the NFL. 

COVID could play a role in putting an end to that.  Colleges have been losing a sh*t-ton of money since it hit, causing schools to drop other programs in the process.

[GREENBEAN]

19 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Douglas’s record so far is mixed at best.  He made two good picks in the draft (Becton, Mims) and got a good haul for Adams.  His other moves have been meh to suck

 

I’m hoping he turns out to be good but his record so far is what it is

Naah. he has shown a proficiency for gaining value in trades with the Pats and Seahawks during the draft, Seahawks again with Jamal and  don't forget talking the Giants into trading 2 picks for the right to pay a guy $14.5 mil in a season where he would never be able to tip the scales for them. 

Another trade that is undervalued is his ability to use the same 6th rd pick to grab two CB's with NFL playing experience in 2 separate years. Hairston and Wilson might not be more than Jags, but getting them both for one 6th is a tick or two under brilliant. The team had desperate need for CB's who have been on the field before and he pulled that off.  Getting the 6th back that he used for Demarius Thomas is another one. 

We don't even have to get too deep into the fact that he all but ended the idea that the Jets are the team to go get overpaid and take a vacation. Macc  or even Tanny would have extended Jordan Jenkins to the tune of 4yrs/9 mil per after his 8 sack season. JD got him a 1 yr for $4.5.  Imagine Jenkins pulling this 9 tackle 1 sack BS when he's locked in at $9 mil per season. 

I get what people are saying when we are 0-8 but we simply have to give this guy time when he's shown what he's shown so far.  Becton and Mims just the beginning. 

 

[Maxman]

15 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

I guess reading comprehension isnt your strong suit.

Ill say it again a little more slowly.

I asked if anybody here that wanted him hired still thinks McCarthy would have been a good hire.  I didnt ask if he would have been better than Gase.   Not grading on a curve compared to Gase.  If you didnt want him hired 2 years ago, then this doesnt apply to you.

Got it?

Who pissed in your corn flakes?