Some news...for those who are interested...

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

 

I could see Darnold starting, but if so, it's extremely problematic.

1) I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, but it potentially speaks to the conflict of interest issue re: the same agent that @Matt39 and @Waka Flocka Flacco are speaking about.  Sam Darnold has been bad.  Very bad.  On the football field.  Sure, "but, reasons," but the bottom line is he hasn't earned any more time, and passing an opportunity to improve the most important position seems like "but, reasons," as well.

2) If they believe in Darnold: A) what are they watching, and B.) Why did they let it get this far with Gase?

3) As @Sperm Edwards points out, and I stated earlier, it's the Maccagnan strategy all over again.  Take as few risks as possible, so you never actually get any better but can extend your career.

4) It's just terrible management.  Sam Darnold will be better next year.  This is a given.  We'll be playing a last place schedule, and have plenty of draft capital and free agent money.  But, it's also decision time on him.  If he goes and and plays "ok," are you ready to reward him with his 100M contract?  Does he need to play great to get that, as he should?  Because, what is the possible explanation of going from worst to top 1/3rd?  If it's Adam Gase, see point 2.  Obviously, unless he's great, the point is, it's too late on Darnold.

5) They're not going to pick top 2 again.  See point 4: They'll have the last place schedule, and an improved team.  Getting the QB you want next year is no guarantee.  So, you're leaving your self open to having to extend Darnold because there's no alternatives, which reeks of, "we didn't get Manning, so give a bunch of money to Sanchez."  Everyone has to hope that Darnold is a complete disaster next year, or a top 10 QB.  While the former is unlikely, the later is more so, so chances are, we have a QB problem next year.  Even if you're not 100% sold on the QB, what's your path to getting even the 2nd best QB prospect next year.

6) If I'm wrong and we end up picking top 3 (maybe even top 5) again, JD should be fired.  This year I have no issue with it.  Two years in a row, and with a top 2 pick and another 1st rounder, hard to put it all on Macc.

7) No doubt it hampers the HC search.  Sources may say the league is higher on him, but how many coaches are going to be excited about being the 3rd coach to get involved with this guy who's gotten two others fired?

Based on all of this, it's completely incompatible to me that, "Joe Douglas wants to give Darnold another shot" and "Joe Douglas knows what he's doing and it's good that he's in charge."

He’s been bad but I think the sentiment around the league and prob with the Jets is that Gase is just that bad of a HC and with proper coaching he can be a good QB. 
I think @Mogglez mentioned it, that they believed Gase was gonna change the way he did things but reverted back once everyone got injured and it was a lost cause by the time we got healthy. 

I don’t think this is anywhere close to what it was with Mac. IMO, Sam has the talent there to be salvaged and this isn’t hoping Hackenberg hits the ocean anytime soon. 
Plus JD isn’t picking a safety over not taking a QB. He’s working on building an OL(if he takes Sewell). Something that helps a future QB. 

[Bugg]

55 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Ozzie Newsome is only 64 years old and has a history with Douglas. I’d throw a blank check at him to be the face of the franchise

Tremendously depressing while this idea has been out there forever and works very well, it's not even being discussed here.Somewhere between cheapness, stupidity and hubris.

If "Die Hard" is your Christmas movie of choice(I'd go "Elf" but there are lots of good choices, but I digress) , the Johnsons are the 2 FBI agents in the helicopter.  Edit: Much to my surprise, the characters names, I sheet you not, are ...Johnson and Johnson

 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

22 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

One more thing, we bitched that Macc went the safe route with Leo and Q now we want JD to go the safe route with Sewell?  To not take a chance that some are right and Fields may actually be as good a NFL QB as Lawrence, pass on him because Sewell, the safest pick is sitting there for us?

 

At least it’s a safe route that helps a very important position along the OL. If we want BAP and took a ILB, I’d be furious. 

Macc drafted Leo when we had a deep DL. When we needed many other important positions. It was terrible. 

[maury77]

3 things about Marvin Lewis:

1) He and Douglas were both in Baltimore together for a short period of time, so there is a decent chance they already know each other

2) I think Lewis's run in Cincinatti would have looked a lot different if Carson Palmer's knee wasn't nuked in that playoff game.

3) Lewis is a 4-3 guy on defense. The 4-3 is a much better fit for the Jets current personnel and would allow Quinnen to really thrive. 

[Bugg]

Marvin Lewis's Bengals tenure is the definition of undistinguished, except for those days it was undisciplined. Hoe do you sell that to anyone? Unfathomably idiotic but typical.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Marvin Lewis" Bengals tenure is the definition of undistinguished, except for those days it was undisciplined. 

Tbf, a lot of that might have been related to the players Cincy's GM was bringing in.  JD does seem like the kind of guy who would bring in Pacman Jones, Vontaze Burfict, etc.

[Jet Nut]

30 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Look at the other side of the coin too though.  If Fields busts, then we blew the #2 overall pick.  Plus what if Sam was about to turn things around?  Keep in mind he still has never been given anything close to a decent situation here and he's still very young.

And if Sewell isnt all we want him to be hes as big a bust wasting the #2 pick.  Nothing is guaranteed other than if each reach the highest some predict, the QB always trumps another position.  Add in not only would we get that FQB we wanted with TL we'd get the bonus moving forward of whatever Sam brings back in return.  Just kicking it around, going to be some tough decisions this offseason

[Matt39]

12 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Marvin Lewis's Bengals tenure is the definition of undistinguished, except for those days it was undisciplined. Hoe do you sell that to anyone? Unfathomably idiotic but typical.

It’s seems to be working already. And another year of Darnold. Either the Jets have a lot of people creating a narrative for them or the fan base is totally delusional.

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And if Sewell isnt all we want him to be hes as big a bust wasting the #2 pick.  Nothing is guaranteed other than if each reach the highest some predict, the QB always trumps another position.  Add in not only would we get that FQB we wanted with TL we'd get the bonus moving forward of whatever Sam brings back in return.  Just kicking it around, going to be some tough decisions this offseason

Very true.  Though I do think with all this uncertainty, I don't hate the idea of Sewell (who I think is safer).  Though trading down is another way to potentially mitigate risk.  Losing out on Trevor makes everything a lot more complicated.

[Jet Nut]

16 minutes ago, Samtorobby47 said:

At least it’s a safe route that helps a very important position along the OL. If we want BAP and took a ILB, I’d be furious. 

Macc drafted Leo when we had a deep DL. When we needed many other important positions. It was terrible. 

Its still make the pick fit what we want.  Quinnen is now a pick many who were so pissed over are happy with.  And no matter how well Sewell plays in the NFL if Dilfer is right, PFF is right, we'll be passed we passed on Fields.  Especially if Sam doesnt become all that much better with tools and a real HC and CS

Just saying.

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Very true.  Though I do think with all this uncertainty, I don't hate the idea of Sewell (who I think is safer).  Though trading down is another way to potentially mitigate risk.  Losing out on Trevor makes everything a lot more complicated.

It was so much easier when all you had to do is run to the podium with the name Trevor Lawrence written down

[slats]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

I don’t think douglas is going to bet his job on darnold.  He took a hedged bet this year that darnold would take enough of a step forward to justify keeping him.  This year, douglas had no choice.  Douglas accomplished a lot this year by showing he could draft good offensive players, and by dealing adams for a boatload of picks.  I just don’t see douglas building a team around darnold, i think he pumps up his trade value and gets what he can for him.  Douglas clearly believes in his drafting ability and he’s going to amass as many picks as he can and build it his way.  Also i can’t see good coaching candidates wanting to spend half their time fixing all of darnold’s problems while dealing with the challenges of taking over the worst team in the nfl.

I understand sticking with Darnold not being popular around here, but if JD doesn't think any of the QB prospects after Lawrence are better than Sam, then building around Sam would be the pragmatic move. Give him an OL and all the dreaded weaponzzzz he can possibly handle, and if he can't take that next step, it'll be set up for the next guy - whoever that may be. I would hope they wouldn't do that without adding a quality/intriguing veteran to backup/compete with him. I'd be interested in Winston. 

It's extremely early right now. So much is going to depend on the head coach and how he feels about Darnold, Fields, Wilson, etc. Really appreciate @Mogglez giving us a factual starting point for all future speculation. 

[slats]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

You make a number of presumptions that are clearly opinion, not fact (like it being impossible to have both Becton and Sewell, as an easy example).  Like most things, it's a choice, not an impossibility.  Both could be paid, and I'd argue both should be paid.  I'd rather pay two elite O-lineman than pay an Edge, DT, LB or Safety, but again, personal choices and preferences in team building theory.

I'd only pay the Edge, but you can't pay two OTs elite LT money and also field the rest of the roster.  

Anyway, Happy Christmas to you!

[Augustiniak]

12 minutes ago, slats said:

I understand sticking with Darnold not being popular around here, but if JD doesn't think any of the QB prospects after Lawrence are better than Sam, then building around Sam would be the pragmatic move. Give him an OL and all the dreaded weaponzzzz he can possibly handle, and if he can't take that next step, it'll be set up for the next guy - whoever that may be. I would hope they wouldn't do that without adding a quality/intriguing veteran to backup/compete with him. I'd be interested in Winston. 

It's extremely early right now. So much is going to depend on the head coach and how he feels about Darnold, Fields, Wilson, etc. Really appreciate @Mogglez giving us a factual starting point for all future speculation. 

If they go this route and ‘build’ around darnold i believe it would still be with the intent to replace him the following season when the overall team talent has been markedly upgraded and the qb won’t be set up to fail.  It’s rare that you see qbs make the big leap in year 4, darnold likely is who he is.  That said, if douglas doesn’t like the qbs enough to take one at 2, he can certainly try to trade back to 4, and then the draft could go Lawrence/qb/Sewell and then douglas can take either a qb or chase at 4.  Doubt they go defense there.

[slats]

8 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

If they go this route and ‘build’ around darnold i believe it would still be with the intent to replace him the following season when the overall team talent has been markedly upgraded and the qb won’t be set up to fail.  It’s rare that you see qbs make the big leap in year 4, darnold likely is who he is.  That said, if douglas doesn’t like the qbs enough to take one at 2, he can certainly try to trade back to 4, and then the draft could go Lawrence/qb/Sewell and then douglas can take either a qb or chase at 4.  Doubt they go defense there.

Obviously it would be a stopgap measure unless Sam took a huge leap next year. I wouldn't put money on him doing that, but I wouldn't call it an impossibility, either. Wherever Darnold is next year, he'll be competing for the starting job. 

[Darnold615]

@ Mogglez - rarely post here, but thanks for the information - great read!  

Is there any talk of trying to pry away Lincoln Riley?  He was a hot name prior to the season but do not hear his name anymore as it relates to NFL openings.  I honestly think I would be less worried about our QB if we can get someone with such a QB friendly system that knows QBs and how to scheme/gameplan.

 

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, slats said:

Obviously it would be a stopgap measure unless Sam took a huge leap next year. I wouldn't put money on him doing that, but I wouldn't call it an impossibility, either. Wherever Darnold is next year, he'll be competing for the starting job. 

Well if they keep him and don’t draft a qb high, then he’d have to compete with a vet they bring in and here you go again.  What inexpensive qb would they bring in to compete with darnold, knowing they would likely both be gone the following season?  There needs to be more of a solution to the position this offseason.

[Dcat]

On 12/24/2020 at 9:59 AM, Augustiniak said:

Here’s the problem with this thinking:

1) if douglas knows that gase is so terrible for darnold’s development, then he should fire him.  He should have fired gase a while ago so he couldn’t do any more harm to darnold.  And if he’s not allowed to fire him, well, then gase may have ruined the qb that douglas intends to stick with instead of drafting someone else.

 

Douglas has no authority to fire Gase nor has he ever.  Only the Johnsons can fire Gase.  So you are complaining about  JD over something that was impossible for JD to do.    Wow.

[Alka]

I might be crazy, but why not put Sewell next to Becton and let them pave the way for our running game?

Fant has seemed to do a good job this year, and possibly we give him an extension.

We get Thuney for right guard in free agency, and away we go!!

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Samtorobby47 said:

He’s been bad but I think the sentiment around the league and prob with the Jets is that Gase is just that bad of a HC and with proper coaching he can be a good QB. 
I think @Mogglez mentioned it, that they believed Gase was gonna change the way he did things but reverted back once everyone got injured and it was a lost cause by the time we got healthy. 

I don’t think this is anywhere close to what it was with Mac. IMO, Sam has the talent there to be salvaged and this isn’t hoping Hackenberg hits the ocean anytime soon. 
Plus JD isn’t picking a safety over not taking a QB. He’s working on building an OL(if he takes Sewell). Something that helps a future QB. 

I get what the Jets, and in possibly, "the league" is thinking.  However, it's incredibly stupid.  Which, of course, it's probably exactly what the Jets are thinking, and doing.

There's nothing to substantiate that wish, and even if he's not Hackenberg bad, he's closer to Hackenberg than a capable NFL QB, so the point remains, that not replacing him when you have the chance, is a mistake that could become a colossal one if either of these guys are Watson/Mahommes.  The odds of a highly touted rookie becoming a good QB seem far more likely than the odds of a terrible NFL QB becoming a good QB, not to mention the aforementioned financial/management issues re: this bet.

Ultimately though, if Sam Darnold was capable of being a good QB, you'd have seen it by now.  We're not talking about a guy who is okay at times, bad at times, and occasionally shows signs of being very good.  We're talking about a guy who's statistically, and surely observationally, been the worst QB in the NFL of starters over the past 3 years.  I'll buy that Gase could be holding him back - sure, whatever, fine.  What I won't buy is that a guy who does essentially nothing well, who makes almost no plays, who has a mediocre at best arm, who struggles to read defenses, who's inaccurate, who throws off his back foot regularly, who is unable to navigate the pocket, and who, again, is the worst QB in the league by objective measures, will suddenly be good.  I mean, thinking back to the Rams game, what specifically is deficient in Adam Gase's coaching that on one of Sam's "good" drives, the two big gain pass plays were on throws that were off target and required adjustment by the WRs to make the plays?  I'll grant you, better "weapinzzzz" help a QB, but a QB can throw behind Julio Jones the same way he can throw behind Chaz Shiliens.  And, I'll grant you, he may, in fact, be "less bad" with another coach.  But, there's a long way to go between less bad, and give this guy a second contract and pass on.

There is no smart argument for Sam Darnold as the 2021 starter.  I wish there was.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, slats said:

if JD doesn't think any of the QB prospects after Lawrence are better than Sam, then building around Sam would be the pragmatic move.

Then JD also believes that the other QB prospects will be the worst QB in the league.

Or, he needs to trade for Stafford.

[The Gooch]

Just now, TeddEY said:

Then JD also believes that the other QB prospects will be the worst QB in the league.

Or, he needs to trade for Stafford.

Or Winston or Mariota!

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I get what the Jets, and in possibly, "the league" is thinking.  However, it's incredibly stupid.  Which, of course, it's probably exactly what the Jets are thinking, and doing.

There's nothing to substantiate that wish, and even if he's not Hackenberg bad, he's closer to Hackenberg than a capable NFL QB, so the point remains, that not replacing him when you have the chance, is a mistake that could become a colossal one if either of these guys are Watson/Mahommes.  The odds of a highly touted rookie becoming a good QB seem far more likely than the odds of a terrible NFL QB becoming a good QB, not to mention the aforementioned financial/management issues re: this bet.

Ultimately though, if Sam Darnold was capable of being a good QB, you'd have seen it by now.  We're not talking about a guy who is okay at times, bad at times, and occasionally shows signs of being very good.  We're talking about a guy who's statistically, and surely observationally, been the worst QB in the NFL of starters over the past 3 years.  I'll buy that Gase could be holding him back - sure, whatever, fine.  What I won't buy is that a guy who does essentially nothing well, who makes almost no plays, who has a mediocre at best arm, who struggles to read defenses, who's inaccurate, who throws off his back foot regularly, who is unable to navigate the pocket, and who, again, is the worst QB in the league by objective measures, will suddenly be good.  I mean, thinking back to the Rams game, what specifically is deficient in Adam Gase's coaching that on one of Sam's "good" drives, the two big gain pass plays were on throws that were off target and required adjustment by the WRs to make the plays?  I'll grant you, better "weapinzzzz" help a QB, but a QB can throw behind Julio Jones the same way he can throw behind Chaz Shiliens.  And, I'll grant you, he may, in fact, be "less bad" with another coach.  But, there's a long way to go between less bad, and give this guy a second contract and pass on.

There is no smart argument for Sam Darnold as the 2021 starter.  I wish there was.

I’d like to think that douglas knows this about darnold.  He does nothing well.  He’s an adequate scrambler.  I really don’t think he’s on the team next year.  That doesn’t mean they take a qb at 2, but they could well trade back and take one.  

[Fantasy Island]

16 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Sorry I actually missed this.  Gase went into this season planning to “adjust” his scheme.  Tony Pauline mentioned this pre-draft last off-season and it was supposed to be the case. The WRs started to drop like flies in camp and Gase went back to “what he knew” in order to get by and, for whatever reason, hasn’t adjusted, even with the 3 starters back.  The dude is stubborn.  That’s pretty much the best way I could put it.  There was some belief that Gase had learned.  This year basically proved that he hasn’t and never will.

I hope Gase gets the 

and realizes it is him.

[Jet Nut]

17 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

If they go this route and ‘build’ around darnold i believe it would still be with the intent to replace him the following season when the overall team talent has been markedly upgraded and the qb won’t be set up to fail.  It’s rare that you see qbs make the big leap in year 4, darnold likely is who he is.  That said, if douglas doesn’t like the qbs enough to take one at 2, he can certainly try to trade back to 4, and then the draft could go Lawrence/qb/Sewell and then douglas can take either a qb or chase at 4.  Doubt they go defense there.

Josh Allen made the big leap in year three with a solid OL and the addition of a top WR Diggs to join a group already better than what we put out on the field IF Mims, Crowder and Perriman were available, never mind with the three injured and unavailable for the first part of the season.  I dont get why an Allen could make the leap in year 3 with a team that has division leader ad SB contender talent on it and Darnold cant in year 4.  

You know what's even more rare than a 4th year QB proving his worth?  A 21 year old top of the chart, 3rd overall pick being given so little help both in personnel and through coaching.  I cant ever think of a QB taken that high given less to work with than Darnold.  Ever.

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Josh Allen made the big leap in year three with a solid OL and the addition of a top WR Diggs to join a group already better than what we put out on the field IF Mims, Crowder and Perriman were available, never mind with the three injured and unavailable for the first part of the season.  I dont get why an Allen could make the leap in year 3 and Darnold cant in year 4.  You know what's even more rare than a 4th year QB proving his worth?  A 21 year old top of the chart, 3rd overall pick being given so little help both in personnel and through coaching.  I cant ever think of a QB taken that high given less to work with than Darnold.  Ever.

Thank you for having the courage to share your feelings about Sam Darnold. You are among friends. We have fresca.

[Gen X Jet]

9 hours ago, Bugg said:

Marvin Lewis's Bengals tenure is the definition of undistinguished, except for those days it was undisciplined. Hoe do you sell that to anyone? Unfathomably idiotic but typical.

A horrible choice which makes the OP's post seem like trolling.  Maybe he brings in Rex as his DC (there are ties there afterall).

 

 

[Matt39]

9 hours ago, Bugg said:

Tremendously depressing while this idea has been out there forever and works very well, it's not even being discussed here.Somewhere between cheapness, stupidity and hubris.

If "Die Hard" is your Christmas movie of choice(I'd go "Elf" but there are lots of good choices, but I digress) , the Johnsons are the 2 FBI agents in the helicopter.  Edit: Much to my surprise, the characters names, I sheet you not, are ...Johnson and Johnson

 

Even the Lions hiring Chris Spielman in a football consultant role is a step in the right direction. Someone like Curtis a Martin or that ilk would be a good move for the Jets. They coach and the GM cannot report to the Johnsons separately if this is ever going to get turned around.

[flgreen]

IMO, if Darnold is the starter for the home opener next year, the place will just as empty as is was this season.

[QB1]

1 hour ago, flgreen said:

IMO, if Darnold is the starter for the home opener next year, the place will just as empty as is was this season.

IMO you’re dead wrong

[Icer]

3 hours ago, flgreen said:

IMO, if Darnold is the starter for the home opener next year, the place will just as empty as is was this season.

Wait til some team that travels well shows up like the Steelers. It will get ugly

[Mogglez]

14 hours ago, Darnold615 said:

@ Mogglez - rarely post here, but thanks for the information - great read!  

Is there any talk of trying to pry away Lincoln Riley?  He was a hot name prior to the season but do not hear his name anymore as it relates to NFL openings.  I honestly think I would be less worried about our QB if we can get someone with such a QB friendly system that knows QBs and how to scheme/gameplan.

 

No problem man.  

Unfortunately for those hoping, I have heard absolutely nothing about Lincoln making the jump to the NFL, let alone coming here.

[Dcat]

2 hours ago, Icer said:

Wait til some team that travels well shows up like the Steelers. It will get ugly

I will NEVER forget how many Ravens fans were there for the MetLife opener.  Just horrible.

[Sperm Edwards]

14 hours ago, Samtorobby47 said:

He’s been bad but I think the sentiment around the league and prob with the Jets is that Gase is just that bad of a HC and with proper coaching he can be a good QB. 
I think @Mogglez mentioned it, that they believed Gase was gonna change the way he did things but reverted back once everyone got injured and it was a lost cause by the time we got healthy. 

I don’t think this is anywhere close to what it was with Mac. IMO, Sam has the talent there to be salvaged and this isn’t hoping Hackenberg hits the ocean anytime soon. 
Plus JD isn’t picking a safety over not taking a QB. He’s working on building an OL(if he takes Sewell). Something that helps a future QB. 

He'd be picking RT at #2. That is Maccagnanesque value. The goal is to build a SB roster overall, not unnecessarily and dramatically over-invest in one lower-value position. The opportunity exists to build an outstanding OL without going gaga over a RT upgrade, because catchy labels like bookend tackles make it sound more vital than it is.

[Mogglez]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He'd be picking RT at #2. That is Maccagnanesque value. The goal is to build a SB roster overall, not unnecessarily and dramatically over-invest in one lower-value position. The opportunity exists to build an outstanding OL without going gaga over a RT upgrade, because catchy labels like bookend tackles make it sound more vital than it is.

FWIW, and this is just a gut feeling with nothing based on what I’ve heard, I think that this exact scenario (needing to make Sewell or Becton a RT) is what pushes JD to, ultimately, trade down.  The haul you would get for Sewell could be astronomical and, on top of it, you wouldn’t be pissing off one of two extremely talented LTs by moving them to a position that will net them a much lesser 2nd contract.