Some news...for those who are interested...

[Rob Moore]

22 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Let’s hear it from Douglas on Monday then. The reporting structure is the biggest problem with this organization followed by the QB. Underlying issue being ownership unwilling to budge on making a major change to the command chart. This all needs to change in order for the organization to have success.  Let’s see them communicate this to the fanbase. It would be a nice start. 

It’s been talked about many times here that many teams have the same structure...it’s not a problem if the team is winning.  If you continually have bad gms or coaches, organizational structure does not matter, nothing can overcome that.  I don’t expect ownership to announce new organizational reporting structure, that’s not something that needs to be said in a press conference while firing the coach.  

Our QB is waaaay down the list of organizational problems, but it seems you have had an axe to grind against Sam since he was drafted. 

[Jetscode1]

3 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

@Mogglez  @football guy  
You guys are great, and F*ck anyone who says otherwise.  

Thank you, thank you, thank you 

I agree with this.  Thanks @Mogglez and @football guy.  

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

18 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Which is related back to the organizational structure/ownership.

The owner hiring Maccagnan is not bad structure. That's just bad decision making.

[Matt39]

10 minutes ago, Rob Moore said:

It’s been talked about many times here that many teams have the same structure...it’s not a problem if the team is winning.  If you continually have bad gms or coaches, organizational structure does not matter, nothing can overcome that.  I don’t expect ownership to announce new organizational reporting structure, that’s not something that needs to be said in a press conference while firing the coach.  

Our QB is waaaay down the list of organizational problems, but it seems you have had an axe to grind against Sam since he was drafted. 

You ever have mud in your tires?

[maury77]

5 hours ago, football guy said:

It’s sounding more and more likely that Joe Douglas will become the football czar in New York once the Johnson’s relieve Adam Gase next Monday. They will take that decision “out of Douglas’s hands”, but will then give him power over everything else baring anything unforeseen. The rumor is that Woody does not want to come in and disrupt the process the front office has spent establishing over the last year and a half, and given the amount of respect Joe has throughout the league, doesn’t feel the need to step on toes. But with Woody coming back there will be more of an emphasis on winning. He will seek to provide resources and input to ensure Douglas has what he needs to fast track the rebuild. 

The Good: for the first time in a long time, the ownership will allow for a traditional, concise football operation where the coach reports to the GM. Joe Douglas is known to be very collaborative and appreciates a coach who has a voice and has such a sterling repuation, so I don’t foresee power struggles. 

The Bad: Although Joe is very collaborative and will want the coach to have a sole in identifying talent, Joe will be the architect of the roster and in many ways, the coach will be asked to coach rather than meddle in personnel decisions. This could turn off candidates who want to have a say in the QB decision. 
 

How it will impact the coaching search: the coaches coming in will have adequate power and say, but they will have to accept the job knowing that the makeup of the QB room will be Joe’s call. For this reason, you may not see many offensive HC candidates prioritizing this job. While many still hold Darnold in high regard, they don’t want to be forced a QB one way or another. For these reasons, I think it’s more likely we see a defensive-minded HC with a “team over player” philosophy (Marvin Lewis, Don “Wink” Martindale) than a rising star on the offensive side. 

I’m personally going to hold out hope that we can still land a program builder who will look past the QB decision with their sights set on winning with the cards they are dealt (Matt Campbell, Jim Harbaugh), but I think it will be hard to convince if Douglas is going to be the one pulling the strings.

 

Regardless, we are in for a wild ride this offseason. 

Does this mean Darnold is coming back or has Douglas not made a decision on that yet?

[football guy]

2 hours ago, Columbia Jet Fan said:

@football guy

@Mogglez

 

You guys are amazing. I was listening to Cimini on ESPN NY today and was like blown away at how little he knew. I get way better information here than the ESPN Jets beat reporter with 25 years experience...  unbelievable 

Thanks for the recognition. I learned so long ago that the beat are all pointless and really haven't got a clue. One rumor can be spread among a few in the know and they'll run with it. I enjoy reading some of there stuff and I'm not going to say they don't know anything, but a lot of them really don't have a clue and it's kind of sad considering the access they have. 

There are times where my friends (I hate saying "sources") aren't on point or my takes are just off, but I've gotten accurate info often. I used to be a member on footballsfuture for a long time and I'm sure some of those guys can vouch for me.

[football guy]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

Does this mean Darnold is coming back or has Douglas not made a decision on that yet?

I don't think that decision has been totally settled but I think Joe Douglas is strongly leaning in that direction. Building a talented roster around the QB position has always been Joe's plan. What helps is that he's not choosing between Case Keenum and a draft pick; he's got a 23 year old former 1st round QB who is still highly thought of around the league. That helps spin his decision if he opts to stick with Sam. 

I also think it has less to do with Darnold and more to do with his views on roster building. Unless his evaluation on the other QBs matches the value he places on the #2 pick AND is far beyond the grade he has set aside for Darnold, I think he'll look to use #2 to acquire talent around the QB- most likely by trading the pick for a number of picks.

[Matt39]

10 minutes ago, football guy said:

I don't think that decision has been totally settled but I think Joe Douglas is strongly leaning in that direction. Building a talented roster around the QB position has always been Joe's plan. What helps is that he's not choosing between Case Keenum and a draft pick; he's got a 23 year old former 1st round QB who is still highly thought of around the league. That helps spin his decision if he opts to stick with Sam. 

I also think it has less to do with Darnold and more to do with his views on roster building. Unless his evaluation on the other QBs matches the value he places on the #2 pick AND is far beyond the grade he has set aside for Darnold, I think he'll look to use #2 to acquire talent around the QB- most likely by trading the pick for a number of picks.

How much influence in your estimation does Sexton have over that decision ? I can’t see how from a production standpoint you can have Darnold under center week 1 next season. He’s the worst starting QB in the league. What is the rationale? How will the Jets communicate to the fanbase their plan to improve a broken QB? Firing Gase is not nearly enough of an explanation. Also, Tannehill was a significantly more productive player in Miami than Darnold has been with the Jets.

[BettyBoop]

11 minutes ago, football guy said:

I don't think that decision has been totally settled but I think Joe Douglas is strongly leaning in that direction. Building a talented roster around the QB position has always been Joe's plan. What helps is that he's not choosing between Case Keenum and a draft pick; he's got a 23 year old former 1st round QB who is still highly thought of around the league. That helps spin his decision if he opts to stick with Sam. 

I also think it has less to do with Darnold and more to do with his views on roster building. Unless his evaluation on the other QBs matches the value he places on the #2 pick AND is far beyond the grade he has set aside for Darnold, I think he'll look to use #2 to acquire talent around the QB- most likely by trading the pick for a number of picks.

If they keep Darnold and trade back, let’s hope it includes a 2022 first round pick.  That means they’ll have three first round picks to trade up for a QB, if needed

[Chrebetfan80]

On 12/26/2020 at 3:20 AM, Mogglez said:

FWIW, I haven’t heard anything about Linsley, but I do know that Thuney is on their radar once again (I cannot stress how upset the FO was that he never hit the market last year).  As for moving McGovern?  I wouldn’t totally rule it out either.  If they can find a clear cut upgrade, yeah I’d say he probably goes back to G.

Agreed with everything else.  That is pretty much the exact way I would go about it as well.

Everything I had heard coming into the season was they LOVED him at guard and were very happy with him at Center, but if they could have added a Center they liked last year he was moving over. 

[Lizard King]

2 hours ago, TNJet said:

Hopefully the Johnson's learned from hiring fired sloppy seconds with their foolish Gase hire. Lets hire a winner...that might be a good idea.

Pete Carroll tho 

[Adoni Beast]

4 minutes ago, football guy said:

I don't think that decision has been totally settled but I think Joe Douglas is strongly leaning in that direction. Building a talented roster around the QB position has always been Joe's plan. What helps is that he's not choosing between Case Keenum and a draft pick; he's got a 23 year old former 1st round QB who is still highly thought of around the league. That helps spin his decision if he opts to stick with Sam. 

I also think it has less to do with Darnold and more to do with his views on roster building. Unless his evaluation on the other QBs matches the value he places on the #2 pick AND is far beyond the grade he has set aside for Darnold, I think he'll look to use #2 to acquire talent around the QB- most likely by trading the pick for a number of picks.

I can completely get behind keeping Darnold and trading down. (And yes my opinion truly matters lol.)

• We acquire picks

• Darnold gets one last shot with an upgraded roster + new coaching

• We’ll be in prime position to draft a QB in 2022 with the war chest of draft picks, if Sam still sucks

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

17 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

How much influence in your estimation does Sexton have over that decision ? I can’t see how from a production standpoint you can have Darnold under center week 1 next season. He’s the worst starting QB in the league. What is the rationale? How will the Jets communicate to the fanbase their plan to improve a broken QB?

They won the Rams game and half the fanbase jumped on board. Where are your rhetorical questions now?

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

30 minutes ago, football guy said:

I don't think that decision has been totally settled but I think Joe Douglas is strongly leaning in that direction. Building a talented roster around the QB position has always been Joe's plan. What helps is that he's not choosing between Case Keenum and a draft pick; he's got a 23 year old former 1st round QB who is still highly thought of around the league. That helps spin his decision if he opts to stick with Sam. 

I also think it has less to do with Darnold and more to do with his views on roster building. Unless his evaluation on the other QBs matches the value he places on the #2 pick AND is far beyond the grade he has set aside for Darnold, I think he'll look to use #2 to acquire talent around the QB- most likely by trading the pick for a number of picks.

Aside from thinking Sam just sucks and they should move on...his trade value won’t be any higher then it is now. 
If he fails next season, you’re gonna get peanuts back. 

[BurnleyJet]

I say trade Darnold and still trade down, not much between Fields, Wilson, Lance and the other Jag QB’s. 

[chrisfaceoff]

I go back and forth with keeping Sam or going for a new Qb, but IF Sam does come back I know he puts in the work to try to be as successful as he can be. 
 

hopefully some more upgrades  and a new staff will help. Will it?  I have no idea. But the kid does have a good work ethic. 

[football guy]

Didn't know where to put this, but my cousin met with Zach Wilson today. He hasn't officially declared but he's vetting reps. He expects the Jets to take him (but that's more confidence in himself going #2/media speculation rather than actually hearing anything from the team). 

[MehlFreeman]

I've always liked Sam and have been very patient but he doesn't seem to have IT. Still makes same mistakes over and over again. Leaves the pocket when there's hardly any pressure. Stays in the pocket too long when he should get out. Not seeing wide open receivers. And his accuracy is very inconsistent. These are constants with him. Doesn't seem like he's learning.  Wish him luck but time to move on. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

11 minutes ago, football guy said:

Didn't know where to put this, but my cousin met with Zach Wilson today. He hasn't officially declared but he's vetting reps. He expects the Jets to take him (but that's more confidence in himself going #2/media speculation rather than actually hearing anything from the team). 

Meh too cocky. Hard pass. 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Adoni Beast said:

I can completely get behind keeping Darnold and trading down. (And yes my opinion truly matters lol.)

• We acquire picks

• Darnold gets one last shot with an upgraded roster + new coaching

• We’ll be in prime position to draft a QB in 2022 with the war chest of draft picks, if Sam still sucks

One last shot? Jeeze we grade our QBs on a curve. He is the worst starting QB in the NFL and worse than a lot of backups. 

[Jet_Engine1]

3 hours ago, Jetscode1 said:

I agree with this.  Thanks @Mogglez and @football guy.  

Mogglez has always been a great poster. Don't know football guy...

[Jet_Engine1]

18 minutes ago, football guy said:

Didn't know where to put this, but my cousin met with Zach Wilson today. He hasn't officially declared but he's vetting reps. He expects the Jets to take him (but that's more confidence in himself going #2/media speculation rather than actually hearing anything from the team). 

Had no idea his Uncle OWNS JetBlue AIr Line. LOL.  It is.....Destiny 

[maury77]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

I don't think that decision has been totally settled but I think Joe Douglas is strongly leaning in that direction. Building a talented roster around the QB position has always been Joe's plan. What helps is that he's not choosing between Case Keenum and a draft pick; he's got a 23 year old former 1st round QB who is still highly thought of around the league. That helps spin his decision if he opts to stick with Sam. 

I also think it has less to do with Darnold and more to do with his views on roster building. Unless his evaluation on the other QBs matches the value he places on the #2 pick AND is far beyond the grade he has set aside for Darnold, I think he'll look to use #2 to acquire talent around the QB- most likely by trading the pick for a number of picks.

Thanks for the info. It's kinda depressing to be honest. 

[Augustiniak]

11 minutes ago, Samtorobby47 said:

Meh too cocky. Hard pass. 

Yeah, let’s take the qb who thinks he doesn’t deserve to go 2nd.

[maury77]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

How much influence in your estimation does Sexton have over that decision ? I can’t see how from a production standpoint you can have Darnold under center week 1 next season. He’s the worst starting QB in the league. What is the rationale? How will the Jets communicate to the fanbase their plan to improve a broken QB? Firing Gase is not nearly enough of an explanation. Also, Tannehill was a significantly more productive player in Miami than Darnold has been with the Jets.

It's more than that. You are limiting the pool of interested coaching candidates if you tell them they have to roll with Darnold. 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

How much influence in your estimation does Sexton have over that decision ? I can’t see how from a production standpoint you can have Darnold under center week 1 next season. He’s the worst starting QB in the league. What is the rationale? How will the Jets communicate to the fanbase their plan to improve a broken QB? Firing Gase is not nearly enough of an explanation. Also, Tannehill was a significantly more productive player in Miami than Darnold has been with the Jets.

Love how I was smashed on here for wishing Jets made a move for Tannehill to push Darnold when he was available and now he’s like the #1 hope trophy for the Darnold bros.

[Mogglez]

5 hours ago, football guy said:

Didn't know where to put this, but my cousin met with Zach Wilson today. He hasn't officially declared but he's vetting reps. He expects the Jets to take him (but that's more confidence in himself going #2/media speculation rather than actually hearing anything from the team). 

He’s as risky as any of the other QBs not named Trevor, but is the one I expect to impress the most in the film room and interviews.

[football guy]

5 hours ago, Mogglez said:

He’s as risky as any of the other QBs not named Trevor, but is the one I expect to impress the most in the film room and interviews.

Agreed. The Mahomes comparison gets thrown around a little too liberally but has that sort of ilk coming out. I also am a firm believer that Mahomes wouldn’t be the player he is today without that organizational infrastructure. We can’t offer that to any QB right now.

[slats]

13 hours ago, football guy said:

I don't think that decision has been totally settled but I think Joe Douglas is strongly leaning in that direction. Building a talented roster around the QB position has always been Joe's plan. What helps is that he's not choosing between Case Keenum and a draft pick; he's got a 23 year old former 1st round QB who is still highly thought of around the league. That helps spin his decision if he opts to stick with Sam. 

I also think it has less to do with Darnold and more to do with his views on roster building. Unless his evaluation on the other QBs matches the value he places on the #2 pick AND is far beyond the grade he has set aside for Darnold, I think he'll look to use #2 to acquire talent around the QB- most likely by trading the pick for a number of picks.

This is what I want to hear. Grab a QB if you truly believe it will be an improvement, but don't grab one out of desperation. Adding a significant trade down from #2 to the booty from the Adams trade would create a ton of draft capital, the kind that a young GM who believes in building thru the draft most likely covets. 

Absolutely have to bring in a legitimate starting QB to add to the room, though. Or trade down and still take a QB high. Can't go into the season leaning on Darnold as your presumptive starter. 

12 hours ago, Samtorobby47 said:

Aside from thinking Sam just sucks and they should move on...his trade value won’t be any higher then it is now. 
If he fails next season, you’re gonna get peanuts back. 

If he fails next year, Jets get nothing. His rookie contract will be over. It's an important part of the equation. 

12 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

I say trade Darnold and still trade down, not much between Fields, Wilson, Lance and the other Jag QB’s. 

No reason he can't do both. 

[68JET11]

15 hours ago, Samtorobby47 said:

The owner hiring Maccagnan is not bad structure. That's just bad decision making.

The only bad decision making the owners should be making is maybe getting the President of Football Operations selection wrong. That's as far as they should ever go in hiring anyone. THEN the POFO hires his GM, which in turn they hire the coach, and so on. Sorry, but this structure in the hands of the Johnson's is the wrong structure. It might be ok in other org's, but the Johnson's know nothing, so the smart move would be to turn your franchise over to a professional.

[Adoni Beast]

33 minutes ago, football guy said:

Agreed. The Mahomes comparison gets thrown around a little too liberally but has that sort of ilk coming out. I also am a firm believer that Mahomes wouldn’t be the player he is today without that organizational infrastructure. We can’t offer that to any QB right now.

Nailed it, but that shouldn’t preclude us from drafting Wilson.

I think Wilson sitting for a season would be beneficial, like Mahomes.

[slats]

4 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Nailed it, but that shouldn’t preclude us from drafting Wilson.

I think Wilson sitting for a season would be beneficial, like Mahomes.

Would benefit Fields, too, who has a Sanchez-sized body of work in college. 

[choon328]

On 12/24/2020 at 2:08 AM, Mogglez said:

To avoid making a long post even longer and making a longer introduction, many of you know that I have a source within the organization.  Many here can confirm this.  My source and I have been discussing the Jets since Sunday and where they go from here and he dropped some tidbits on me that I’ve had confirmed to me by a second, more prominent, source and am now ready to share with all of you as I’ve been given the “ok”...so here we go:

My guy is pretty certain that if the Jets don’t go QB, that they will either go Sewell and build around Sam for one more “do or die” season, or they will look to trade down.  However, JD really loves Sewell and a trade may be hard to pull off (although this was all discussed before Cincinnati won and dropped themselves in the draft, so that could change given how much the Bengals want and, quite frankly, need him).  I was also told that Zach Wilson is likely a long shot to be the selection and Douglas, if he goes QB, is more likely to go Fields.  The team is high on Justin.  There is, obviously, still a ton of work to be done however.

The most disheartening news that he spilled though is yes, for those who have been keeping tabs on what I said in another thread earlier, there are legitimate rumblings that Marvin Lewis might get a serious look at Head Coach.  I just got finished up with the more prominent source who is very connected to the league in order to kinda get a second word on this and can now confirm it.  From what I was told, they’re still going to swing for the fences with Matt Campbell and Pat Fitzgerald, but are not sure if they will leave the college ranks, especially without Lawrence.  Other names who we’ve talked, and I have mentioned before, are Greg Roman, Brian Daboll, and Joe Brady (least likely as of today).  Personally, I’d like to see Arthur Smith thrown in there too.  I believe he will be.  A dark horse discussed was Jim Harbaugh, who Woody loves, and has loved for a long time.  However, I don’t believe he leaves Michigan (yes @Defense Wins Championships, as much as I don’t love the idea, there is a chance).

The more prominent guy basically parroted what I’ve been hearing since last year and throughout this season.  The league is MUCH, and I can’t stress that enough, higher on Sam than the fans and such are, which is a big driving force behind the “give Sam one last ride” idea.  While it’s obviously very early and almost everything I’m saying right now as of today can change, the league view on every guy not named Trevor is not favorable.  Fields is most people’s number 2, with Wilson rising, but that is more of an indictment on what Fields has put on tape this season.  The consensus among the league is that Sam can absolutely be salvaged with the right talent + coaching, and that they actually view that as the scenario that would yield more rewards than drafting Fields, Lance, Wilson, etc.  Personally, I don’t know how I feel about that, but I’m not the one who is making that decision so I try and remove myself from that headspace.  Ideally, JD, as much as he loves Sewell, wants other players at premium positions to blow up from now until draft day, trade down, and get as much high end talent as possible to build a complete team.  The thinking is if Sam can’t do it after that, you can still look for a QB next year in a class that, as of now, looks more “whole” than this years class.  Both guys also said to me that the league feeling is that, our boy, Maccagnan was a disaster of unparalleled proportions and Sam is far from “broken beyond repair”.  They went as far as to say that they believe he is more fixable and moldable than Tannehill was coming out of Miami.  Obviously Gase was discussed and they could not stress enough how awful he is scheme-wise.  What he does is not “QB friendly” by any stretch of the imagination.  From the limitations on audibles (QB sneak-gate was a big example of this) all the way to route combinations.  The guy just doesn’t understand how to help his players, particularly his signal caller.  

Getting back to the draft, as of today (and of course this can change with big performances from a QB like Fields in the playoffs, more extensive film study, and whiteboard work at the combine, etc.) the thinking, not just with us, is that the QBs in this class not named Lawrence are not worth getting fired over.  There is less risk with giving Sam one last ride than associating yourself with, say, Zach Wilson, a BYU QB who lights up UCF and teams of that ilk, for the foreseeable future.  Especially if you think Sam can still reach his full potential, which was thought to be very high.  Of course we discussed the chance that a team like Denver, Chicago, Pitt, etc. blows JD away with a trade for Sam as well.  It’s unlikely, but will be something to monitor. 

While this news may not thrill many of you, both my source and the prominent person I spoke to in order to further confirm this, have done everything to back me off the “I can’t believe Douglas would do this, what a nightmare” ledge.  They stressed that he will get this team on the right track, one way or another, and that he is the real deal.  I was nervous to post this because the whole process is early, fluid, and I have no idea what type of information I will get as things change, but I always told you guys that I would be upfront with the information I could share and I will stick to that.  

Great stuff! Thanks for sharing.  I'm a little late to this party but I'll give my opinion. 

Marvin Lewis- You could do a lot worse than him.  He took a notoriously cheap and bad organization and coached them for 16 years, 7 playoff appearances with only 5 losing seasons. I like the idea of a young coordinator until I realize that we've been making these same type of hires since Parcells with mostly negative results. The Jets desperately need an adult leading this team and Lewis would fit the bill. Is he an exciting hire? No, but he would become the most successful HC the Jets have brought in since Parcells and it's not close. 

Darnold- I'm really down on Darnold. His inaccuracy and bad decision making are putrid and make me so mad. He has a ton of talent but there are plenty of failed QB's who had just as much talent. Other then his play his contract situation is also an issue here.  I honestly would be more excited for Marvin Lewis than bringing Darnold back. 

Draft-I can see them going offensive line at #2 and going after Thuney in FA. No matter who the QB is they'll benefit from that. I do like the idea of a great offensive line. I think there still is a lot of work to do with bringing playmakers in. Mims is a nice piece but they need to add a solid RB and a potential #1 like Godwin or Juju to take pressure off the QB. A great line is worthless if your WR'S can't separate. It's also worthless if your QB can't hit the broad side of a barn. 

[football guy]

12 minutes ago, slats said:

If he fails next year, Jets get nothing. His rookie contract will be over. It's an important part of the equation. 

Jets will not be big spenders next year so if they don’t pick up his option and Darnold walks in 2022, they still could land a comp pick. I know that sounds optimistic but there will be someone who takes a chance on him given his age (will be 24 next offseason) and pedigree. 

Mariota got 2 years, $19 million. That typically lands a 4th round comp. If he gets north of $15 million per year and plays, would be looking at a 3rd. Not much but it’s something. 

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

Would benefit Fields, too, who has a Sanchez-sized body of work in college. 

If a quarterback hasn't played enough, he should not play some more. Then he will be good.