****OFFICIAL JETS VS SAINTS ATTRITION BOWL GAME THREAD****

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

31 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Yeah that’s all good and great.

Fact is, the Jets just made Zach Wilson the highest drafted QB this side of Joe Namath in the organizations history.

They aren’t telling him to grab some pine in favor of the dude that no one thought would even beat out James Morgan until the final cuts rolled in just a few months ago.

Wilson is starting every game the rest of this season barring injury, period.

Mike White may not even be on the roster in a few months. But Zach Wilson sure as hell will be.

Agreed.  The Zach Wilson "hand" must be played out entirely, for the simple reason there is Way too much draft capital invested in him.  Last week he should have had 3TD passes in the first half and didn't see virtually ANY action until the 4th Qtr because this team has so many holes.

I'll be the first to admit that too much of his play in his rookie season has been brutal, but you can't cut the cord yet.  Competition will be brought in next year and the best player plays.

[TuscanyTile2]

32 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I actually laugh during Jets games now because I'm at the point thats the only way I can deal with this bullsh*t

I feel the exact same way.  I'd like to see this team win but we are in the abyss right now.  I have no idea how we're going to get out of it. I don't even know what good football looks like anymore.

I'm still hoping Zach can turn things around but I have no expectation of it.  

[Maynard13]

50 minutes ago, Jetscode1 said:

I'm coming around to this idea.  Just draft best available offensive talent in the next draft.  Make the others score 50 on us each game.  lol

With just one trade back, we could have an extra 2nd rounder giving us 2 #1's and 3# 2's.  So Edge, C, RB, LB, CB, TE just after the first 2 rounds.    

[TuscanyTile2]

21 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Agreed.  The Zach Wilson "hand" must be played out entirely, for the simple reason there is Way too much draft capital invested in him.  Last week he should have had 3TD passes in the first half and didn't see virtually ANY action until the 4th Qtr because this team has so many holes.

I'll be the first to admit that too much of his play in his rookie season has been brutal, but you can't cut the cord yet.  Competition will be brought in next year and the best player plays.

I agree with this.  As brutal as it is watching him, he deserves next year at a minimum.  If he looks this bad again next year then I'd certainly consider either moving on or bringing in some serious competition for year 3.

[Irish Jet]

1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

I don’t care if Buffalo had the best defense in the league at the time.

If White is the player that some of you seem to think he is then he should at least be able to face said defense without utterly imploding.

The guy seems flat out incapable of pushing the ball downfield. Buffalo wasn’t going to allow him to dink and dunk them to death ala Cincinnati. So they took away the short stuff…and Mike White melted.

I’m not even some Zach Wilson fanboy. I didn’t give two wet sh*ts about drafting any of these rookie QB’s once the Trevor Lawrence dream was dead.

But Wilson is here now and the Jets are committed. And I sure as hell don’t want him riding the bench in favor of Mike White checking the ball down to Michael Carter and Ty Johnson on 90% of his drop backs.

You are completely misconstruing what people are saying. Even if I accepted the ridiculous premise of his "implosion" being completely indicative of what he is the point remains he has been comfortably better than Zach. So has Flacco, so had Josh Johnson. If White has imploded then what the f*ck has happened to Zach?

Zach can't even hit the short stuff that has been supposedly taken away from White. He's been a catastrophe on every level. The reason you go to White isn't because he's the guy long term - You do it to save Zach the trauma he's going through at the minute when he's clearly not ready for this level. You let him focus on preparing for next year while he adjusts to the speed of the game. You give your players the best chance to succeed. The team has a better chance to win and you can more accurately evaluate the roster when the QB is doing the basics of his job. 

You can already see the players' frustration with Zach, you can see the arm waving and the looks they're giving after plays. There were signs earlier in the year with some of the comments/posts they were making deflecting blame. They are not happy with Zach - They will be more aware than anyone that they collectively looked better with different QB's. Sticking with Wilson in spite of all this is how coaches lose the dressing room, how their own credibility gets shot. You can't claim to be a meritocracy when you're constantly putting in a guy who cannot play. Your attitude towards the QB just seems completely dismissive of the other 52 players - There's a locker room that has to be managed, not just a QB.

[nj meadowlands]

Anyone go today?  The ******* “music” they play at MetLife is absolutely putrid.  Just thought I’d share.  Thanks. 

[TuscanyTile2]

7 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

You can already see the players' frustration with Zach, you can see the arm waving and the looks they're giving after plays

I noticed that as well

 

[BornJetsFan1983]

13 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Saleh managed to make Tevin Coleman look like the caliber of player he has always been? I really don't understand your takes. 

Tevin Coleman has.sucked for a long time, what are you talking about? At this point in his career he is no spring chicken. He is a veteran brought in to help bring in the system.

What are you talking about? Teven Coleman looks like a starter or well at least has played well at times. That is better that he has been able to be for a while. That is all the comment meant.

[Bleedin Green]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I have been plenty critical of Wilson throughout this season, but hopeful that he would improve, progress, and possibly start to show some positive signs as the season went on.  I of course got a bit less certain the more the season went on, as the longer it takes, the less the odds are that it will ever happen.

However, I will freely admit, it was this play right here where I essentially lost all hope.  Griffin is completely uncovered on this play, standing alone on a totally empty half of the field directly in front of Wilson, and yet the ball comes nowhere even close to him.  It's just a special level of incompetence.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I noticed that as well

 

How do you fix that?  How do you teach him not to suck?  This is scary bad.  I just dont get it.

[Jet_Engine1]

3 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

How do you fix that?  How do you teach him not to suck?  This is scary bad.  I just dont get it.

Remember when it was "Tank for Trevor" and you and I were talking Fields and Lance?

 

Good times...

[Spoot-Face]

4 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

How do you fix that?  How do you teach him not to suck?  This is scary bad.  I just dont get it.

Let's just say that it'll be easier to fix climate change, the VA system, and America's crumbling infrastructure than it is to fix Zach Wilson.

[Jet_Engine1]

9 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

Let's just say that it'll be easier to fix climate change, the VA system, and America's crumbling infrastructure than it is to fix Zach Wilson.

1. Nuclear Power

2. Open Tricare/VA to a subsidized insurance market instead of a closed system that attracts the worst practitioners so Vets can get quality care anywhere

3. Actually write a bill that addresses infrastructure,  that doesn't include every crackpot idea from idiots like Bernie and AOC, and declare a National Strategy to repair our infrastructure for all, and invite competition with time based deadlines and  incentive bonuses, and additional payouts for speed+verified high quality work. Have a penalty system for jobs over budget, off schedule, or for poor work. 

 

4. I got nothin'

 

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I noticed that as well

 

The worst part about both of these clips is that he has plenty of time in both of them and he still can’t put it together. It’d be one thing if he was getting rocked right off the snap, but he had an eternity to throw on most of his snaps. Kid is broken.

[T0mShane]

4 hours ago, Untouchable said:

But there still are people saying that Mike White should be playing. That’s just goofy.

Wilson has struggled mightily, but you don’t sit the #2 overall pick in favor of a limited QB who was career practice squad fodder prior to 4 months ago. And if Douglas would’ve re-signed Flacco during the offseason, that’s exactly where White would still be.

Hell, I’d say the odds are better that White is completely out of the league within 3 years than him even becoming a quality longterm backup. Much less some sort of viable starter.

Even with all of Lawrence’s struggles as a rookie in Jacksonville, I doubt there’s a large contingent of Jaguars fans banging the table for C.J. Beathard.

It was a mistake not to give White the start against the Dolphins because it looked like they kneecapped him to preserve Zach’s feelings. We can say that White isn’t the long term answer while also acknowledging that his performance against the Bengals earned him the chance to play as long as Zach was out, and benching him for Flacco sent the message that Saleh is a puppet of management and he’ll play whomever he’s told to, whether they deserve it or not. If they want Zach to earn the respect of the locker room, they should let him compete for the job, because up until now, he’s been gifted it and he sucks. I don’t blame Wilson in this, I blame everyone who’s supposed to be in charge, starting with Saleh. As bad as Zach has been, Saleh has been worse.

[BornJetsFan1983]

I'm not one to really say the def coaching has been the problem, their is injuries their is random.luck etc. But god damn that taysom hill TD at the end. That is crazy we let it happen. I mean that is coaching all the way.

It's unacceptable. That should never have happened everyone knew except our defense the mos likely play was kamara and him running and we acted like it was some sort of secret game plan.

I have officially jumped into the def coach sucks.

I mean we just are in prepared. It's one thing to get out played or beat by better team but I mean we had no chance against the most likely plays for the saints to run.

 

That's all coaching. Saleh you need to get your boy 

[JohnnyLV]

57 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The worst part about both of these clips is that he has plenty of time in both of them and he still can’t put it together. It’d be one thing if he was getting rocked right off the snap, but he had an eternity to throw on most of his snaps. Kid is broken.

NFL Redzone switched to the KC game and in three consecutive plays Mahomes through 2 simple dumpoffs that were way behind the receiver and was completely inaccurate on a deep ball.  The difference? He's an elite QB so no one cares about his misthrows AND his receivers caught both oh his inaccurate passes.

Problem I see with all the Zach bashing is the microscope on him is way too fine. Any minute thing Zach does wrong is magnified to an insane level. No QB will look good against the scrutiny the people here place him under.

He was crappy today. It happens. It's his 8th game. He has been making decent decisions and today's group of 3rd 4th and 5th receivers were not getting open and making plays. 

It's obviously not a smooth process for Zach and he may fail but we are at least a year from anyone basically knowing what he will be. Another complete offseason, mini-camp, and training camp usually does wonders for 2nd year players.

But let's cut him and play the guy with one good game who cannot stay healthy and threw an INT a quarter. 

There is some much reactionism hatred intolerance and outright stupidity in this thread, and it is disheartening.  Whatever. 

[RutgersJetFan]

3 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Zach can't even hit the short stuff that has been supposedly taken away from White. He's been a catastrophe on every level. The reason you go to White isn't because he's the guy long term - You do it to save Zach the trauma he's going through at the minute when he's clearly not ready for this level. You let him focus on preparing for next year while he adjusts to the speed of the game. You give your players the best chance to succeed. The team has a better chance to win and you can more accurately evaluate the roster when the QB is doing the basics of his job.

Is playing football normally traumatic for professional football players?

[92ShaunEllis92]

3 hours ago, nj meadowlands said:

Anyone go today?  The ******* “music” they play at MetLife is absolutely putrid.  Just thought I’d share.  Thanks. 

Nope. I’m done with this 2021 team. I’m a STH and the effort to drive out from Manhattan, put up with the cold, put up with unwatchable football only to leave early and still have to deal with over an hour of gridlock holiday traffic back into Manhattan is JUST NOT WORTH IT. 
 

The Bills was my last game and I have no intention of going back this year. Abysmal. Spent the day enjoying the park in the morning and enjoying NYC all dressed up & festive for the holiday season. Much more enjoyable. 
 

after 13 years, they may lose me. So much better to just watch the replay. 
 

But yeah…… the music they blast their is putrid. Lol 

[BP]

They mismanaged the time at the end of the first half by running the ball and then hurrying up and going into halftime with a timeout in their pocket. Just pure incompetence. The announcers even knew it and were surprised.

 

All of the wide open receivers Wilson either didn’t see, one hopped to or threw behind. And a recurring theme, 3rd and 3 empty backfield and the saints bring the house and sack Wilson lol I don’t think anybody else in the nfl runs an empty backfield on 3rd and short yardage, only the Jets. Very unique and telling.

 

1) it’s hard enough watching them

2) who would go pay to see this sh*t?
 

3) there were a lot of empty seats and even legendary Jets fan fireman Ed put his palm in his face in frustration and they caught him on camera doing it lol

[jgb]

7 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Remember when it was "Tank for Trevor" and you and I were talking Fields and Lance?

 

Good times...

Yeah well I wanted Mac so consider yourself one upped  

[Barton]

Do we really trust Saleh to be the guy to develp Wilson or another QB moving forward?

How the F did Douglas hire this guy? Good God. 

[BP]

Just now, Barton said:

Do we really trust Saleh to be the guy to develp Wilson or another QB moving forward?

How the F did Douglas hire this guy? Good God. 

If he can’t hit guys in stride in a game, wtf are they seeing in practice? If Wilson gets enough reps in practice with those short throws it should be like second nature. Everybody is so bad it’s hard to tell who to point the finger at.

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, BP said:

If he can’t hit guys in stride in a game, wtf are they seeing in practice? If Wilson gets enough reps in practice with those short throws it should be like second nature. Everybody is so bad it’s hard to tell who to point the finger at.

Luckily I have 100 fingers when it comes to the Jets.

[Irish Jet]

So I just watched the Saleh pressed and that may be the most embarrassing thing I've ever seen from a Jets coach. He sounded like the delusional Jets fans defending their favourite player saying "aside from the one run at the end" our run defence wasn't bad. Unironically he said we played "good football" to that point. Seriously what in the f*ck? That run happened, you can't say "aside" from anything. That play was a travesty and we were getting blown the f*ck out before it. 

Cimini literally stumped him. He asked Saleh point blank what the tangible signs of progress where and he actually couldn't answer the question. He seems to just absolutely refuse to hold players accountable, again repeated this idea that professional players always give their all so he never has to worry about that. Said Zach showed some good things and struggled with a slippery f*cking ball. This is worse than anything I heard from Gase and those pressers were brutal. 

He's in over his head. Can't see him surviving next year. 

 

[Matt39]

52 minutes ago, Barton said:

Do we really trust Saleh to be the guy to develp Wilson or another QB moving forward?

How the F did Douglas hire this guy? Good God. 

Douglas has done what all Jets GM’s typically do- hide. As the Jets get worse and worse, you see less and less of Douglas.

[T0mShane]

5 hours ago, johnnysd said:

NFL Redzone switched to the KC game and in three consecutive plays Mahomes through 2 simple dumpoffs that were way behind the receiver and was completely inaccurate on a deep ball.  The difference? He's an elite QB so no one cares about his misthrows AND his receivers caught both oh his inaccurate passes.

Problem I see with all the Zach bashing is the microscope on him is way too fine. Any minute thing Zach does wrong is magnified to an insane level. No QB will look good against the scrutiny the people here place him under.

He was crappy today. It happens. It's his 8th game. He has been making decent decisions and today's group of 3rd 4th and 5th receivers were not getting open and making plays. 

It's obviously not a smooth process for Zach and he may fail but we are at least a year from anyone basically knowing what he will be. Another complete offseason, mini-camp, and training camp usually does wonders for 2nd year players.

But let's cut him and play the guy with one good game who cannot stay healthy and threw an INT a quarter. 

There is some much reactionism hatred intolerance and outright stupidity in this thread, and it is disheartening.  Whatever. 

Big picture, yeah, it’s a rookie QB struggling on a rebuilding team and all but one of the rookies looks awful so far. I do think people are being too mean to Wilson and scapegoating him for the team being trash. He’s a good, tough young dude who’s been mismanaged and is paying the price for it. 

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Barton said:

Do we really trust Saleh to be the guy to develp Wilson or another QB moving forward?

How the F did Douglas hire this guy? Good God. 

Saleh, to date, has been worse than Gase, and Gase walked into an infinitely worse situation.

[Larz]

Whoa

didnt realize Shame has created actual zealots. 

Don’t argue with true believers lol

[Biggs]

7 hours ago, johnnysd said:

NFL Redzone switched to the KC game and in three consecutive plays Mahomes through 2 simple dumpoffs that were way behind the receiver and was completely inaccurate on a deep ball.  The difference? He's an elite QB so no one cares about his misthrows AND his receivers caught both oh his inaccurate passes.

Problem I see with all the Zach bashing is the microscope on him is way too fine. Any minute thing Zach does wrong is magnified to an insane level. No QB will look good against the scrutiny the people here place him under.

He was crappy today. It happens. It's his 8th game. He has been making decent decisions and today's group of 3rd 4th and 5th receivers were not getting open and making plays. 

It's obviously not a smooth process for Zach and he may fail but we are at least a year from anyone basically knowing what he will be. Another complete offseason, mini-camp, and training camp usually does wonders for 2nd year players.

But let's cut him and play the guy with one good game who cannot stay healthy and threw an INT a quarter. 

There is some much reactionism hatred intolerance and outright stupidity in this thread, and it is disheartening.  Whatever. 

Zach bashing is largely the result of a fan base that has been BSd to death by the Jets and the NFL.  Sam was hyped and turned out to be an unfinished product with bad mechanics and a lack of processing speed.  Zach was sold as a guy with a fantastic arm who was smart and hard working who could step in from day 1.  He was annoited by Douglas and Saleh from day 1.  

The GM and HC literally trolled the fan base about Zach through the entire off season.  Now that the wheels are coming off instead of biting the bullit and putting him on the bench, they trade for Flacco who amazingly isn't vacinated and gets covid and gives Mike White Covid to give them an excuse to put Zach back on the firing line.  

Then you have Saleh sounding like some crackpot standing on a box in times square talking about the "plan" as if those who believe won't be sucked into the vortex of death that being a Jets fan has become.  

[Augustiniak]

11 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Big picture, yeah, it’s a rookie QB struggling on a rebuilding team and all but one of the rookies looks awful so far. I do think people are being too mean to Wilson and scapegoating him for the team being trash. He’s a good, tough young dude who’s been mismanaged and is paying the price for it. 

big picture, step back to preseason and training camp and the team’s mantra was to have the offense lift wilson so he didn’t feel he had to do it all himself.  Fast forward to after his injury.  The team’s stable of offensive weapons (dare i call them ‘weapons’) has (yet again) been depleted by injuries.  The 3 guys helping wilson this year, davis, moore and carter, are all out.  The OL has been better at pass blocking but the running game is non existent without carter, who is clearly their best rb by a lot.  TEs suck but we know this every year without looking at the roster.  Taken in aggregate, wilson does in fact feel he has to win games by himself now, yet, he also knows that forcing stupid throws will produce those multiple int games like vs NE.  So what we get is these frustratingly neutered games like yesterday, where he wants to run around and make things happen but guys like mims aren’t open and guys like Johnson can’t catch.  

Where our frustrations boil over is watching the bounce screen pass and the whiff on the wide open TE fail where it seems anyone could complete.  But again big picture, those really bad throws are a small fraction of the overall throws.  And as the wrs keep rotating and changing, it’s fair to wonder how many of these incompletions are at least partially on the wrs for not executing the routes.  Wilson has to be frustrated he really has no one to rely on in the huddle to ‘make a play’ when it’s needed.  

[JustInFudge]

10 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I noticed that as well

 

 

Kind of similar foot work...

 

[Bleedin Green]

20 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

But again big picture, those really bad throws are a small fraction of the overall throws.  And as the wrs keep rotating and changing, it’s fair to wonder how many of these incompletions are at least partially on the wrs for not executing the routes.  Wilson has to be frustrated he really has no one to rely on in the huddle to ‘make a play’ when it’s needed.  

Except it's a frighteningly large fraction of his throws and is the same exact thing he has been doing all season long, even when everyone was healthy.  Back then, the argument was that those players all actually sucked and were at fault too, but then Mike White, Josh Johnson, and Joe Flacco all quickly proved that to be untrue.  So now it's just the next excuse-filled narrative of why it's never Wilson's fault everyone else is better at his job than he is.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Irish Jet said:

He seems to just absolutely refuse to hold players accountable, again repeated this idea that professional players always give their all so he never has to worry about that. S

This is the mark of death for a coach, imo. No great coach believes this.

[Bleedin Green]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This is the mark of death for a coach, imo. No great coach believes this.

The team is going to have to look 100% completely different right out of the gate next year and be fully clicking, or it will quickly turn into a disaster that will have JD and Saleh both looking for new jobs, and the start of Jets teardown/rebuild round 86.