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Game Observations (JAX)


KRL
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13 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Good thoughts. I think Berrios could be the full-time slot guy. The defense blows whether Williams plays or not. Both first rounders used on pass rushers I' be fine with. It's the second most important position after QB. 

Tevin Coleman is a decent back, just always nicked up. Hard to commit anything to him.

Berrios, should be the backup to Moore next year at SLOT, and start on ST.  Moore shouldn't see the outside WR position unless this team fails to find 2 WR's to man the outside of this offense.

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8 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

Berrios, should be the backup to Moore next year at SLOT, and start on ST.  Moore shouldn't see the outside WR position unless this team fails to find 2 WR's to man the outside of this offense.

Moore has to stay healthy. Berrios doesnt get hurt and catches everything. The Jets need reliable to start.

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4 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Moore has to stay healthy. Berrios doesnt get hurt and catches everything. The Jets need reliable to start.

I think next year Saleh and the CS have to take off the kid gloves when it comes to all these injuries. These guys have to get on the damn field. This place is a country club.

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Always love your posts KRL.  Disagree on 2 key points.

1.  You underestimate Berrios.  He can be a fantastic slot taking advantage of his quickness, route running, intelligence, toughness and great hands.  I mean what the hell is he missing?  Look at his catch per target rate.  He’s not a 1 or 2 or a 4 or 5.  He’s a perfect 3 and we’ll hurt the team if we let him go prove it to someone else.  Zack also has great chemistry with him.  Only argument I can see is if he is more valuable as a special teams player and a fill in slot.

2. We do not have the luxury of drafting 2 edge rushers early.  Simply too many holes.  We need an Edge, WR, 2 LB, 2 TE, and 2 safety.  And a big fat smothering DT who can stop the run and free up Q.  Even a guard or center is becoming a luxury given other needs at the first level.

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, KRL said:

Normally with another season down the drain I would be more concerned with
draft position than a win.  But it looks like the Jets are going to have
four picks within the first 50 selections, so if Joe Douglas can't improve
this roster shame on him.  So I'm glad the Jets beat JAX 26-21 and "doubled"
their win total from last year, but with two bad teams and so many players
missing there's not a ton to analyze:

Special Teams

- Braxton Berrios isn't and shouldn't be anything more than our #4/#5 WR
next year.  BUT he's an excellent returner who solidified a place on this
team with a 102 yard TD return yesterday.  On top of that credit to Berrios
for making tough catches over the middle and not having the case of the
"dropsies" that too many of our WR have.

Defense

- Nothing was impressive about the defensive effort.  I know Quinnen Williams
and John Franklin-Myers didn't play but there was no pass rush which enabled
Trevor Lawrence all day to throw.  The run defense was mediocre (31 rushes / 
132 yards) and CJ Mosley dropped a game ending INT which almost became the game
losing TD.  Looking forward I want the DE spot reconfigured, Carl Lawson needs
to come back healthy and I want Bryce Huff kept.  After that two high draft picks
have to be used on pass rushers.  With those moves I would rotate Lawson, Franklin-
Myers, Draft Pick, Draft Pick and Huff at DE.  And to get as many pass rushers
on the field I would kick Franklin-Myers inside to DT on passing downs.  Without
big time talent and constant pressure from the front four this defense will be
continually picked apart.

Offense

- Fantastic commitment to the running game and excellent production (36 rushes /
273 yards).  But if they do it against TB and/or BUF I'll be more impressed.
Michael Carter continues to demonstrate elite "contact balance" and explosion as
he generated 118 yards on 16 rushes.  And don't be surprised that we aren't seeing
Ty Johnson anymore after his 3 drop fiasco a couple of games ago.  I didn't think
it was possible but I could see Tevin Coleman being brought back next year (14
rushes / 57 yards) when healthy he hits the hole quickly and shows good speed.

- How sad is this stat, Conor McDermott had more catches, yards and TD's than Denzel
Mims and Jeff Smith combined (1/1/1 to 0/0/0).  We either need to sign a free agent
WR or draft one high.

QB

- Zach Wilson was in "game manager" mode which didn't generate much in the way of stats
(14/22, 102 yards, TD).  But credit to him for displaying good judgment on when to leave
the pocket, as Wilson generated 91 yards on 4 rushes and a TD.  Baby steps to be sure and
I still have questions about whether he can be a franchise QB.  Let's see what Wilson
does against two playoff teams (TB & BUF) who are fighting for seeding.

To add, I think one of the announcers said Berrios hasn’t had a drop this year? 

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4 minutes ago, section314 said:

I think next year Saleh and the CS have to take off the kid gloves when it comes to all these injuries. These guys have to get on the damn field. This place is a country club.

Certainly something that needs to be addressed. Harder to do in this day and age, but you gotta identify leaders who play no matter what and set the tone. 

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18 minutes ago, section314 said:

Watching the game yesterday, we need to use  our two first rounders on a pash rusher and a #1 receiver. Anything else would be criminal.

I honestly don't think there's a number one receiver in this draft. The position has really good depth to it, but I think we've been lulled into a mindset where you can just draft a receiver high and he'll automatically turn out a number one because of recent drafts, which were historic for the position. 

Look back over the last few drafts and have a look at the receivers taken in the top 50 or so overall picks. Many of them  are levels ahead of the top WRs in this draft at the same stage. Elijah Moore would (or should) likely be taken ahead of all the WRs from this draft, let alone before we get to names like Chase, Lamb, Jefferson, Devonta Smith etc

Point is, you don't reach for a position just because you need to fill it, and a lot of the highly rated WRs from this draft are not legit first rounders and thus shouldn't be drafted there. 

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Unless something drastic takes place it looks like we'll be picking #4 which
would probably take us out of Hutchinson & Thibodeaux.  When Michigan plays 
Georgia keep an eye on Hutchinson's running mate David Ojabo.  His frame
looks like he would fit as a 4-3 DE:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/stats/_/id/4426507/david-ojabo

    

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10 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

 

2. We do not have the luxury of drafting 2 edge rushers early.  Simply too many holes.  We need an Edge, WR, 2 LB, 2 TE, and 2 safety.  And a big fat smothering DT who can stop the run and free up Q.  Even a guard or center is becoming a luxury given other needs at the first level.

 

 

 

I was going to make this very comment, except, I do not think center or guard are a luxury, they are a requirement. The only chance this team has of a playoff spot and a dominant team in 2023 is if Zack becomes a franchise QB and he can't do that without a real line, protection, and run support.

I don't think JD can turn this team completely around in 1 more year, so if the D isn't perfect, so be it. But I agree we need all of that help on D, plus at least a TE and WR. Maybe between a good draft and good offseason, we can fill enough holes to be really good, but if Zack doesn't make it, we loose at least another year or 2 in rebuild - either way Zack or someone else, we need a line to protect him.

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5 minutes ago, PLO said:

I honestly don't think there's a number one receiver in this draft. The position has really good depth to it, but I think we've been lulled into a mindset where you can just draft a receiver high and he'll automatically turn out a number one because of recent drafts, which were historic for the position. 

Look back over the last few drafts and have a look at the receivers taken in the top 50 or so overall picks. Many of them  are levels ahead of the top WRs in this draft at the same stage. Elijah Moore would (or should) likely be taken ahead of all the WRs from this draft, let alone before we get to names like Chase, Lamb, Jefferson, Devonta Smith etc

Point is, you don't reach for a position just because you need to fill it, and a lot of the highly rated WRs from this draft are not legit first rounders and thus shouldn't be drafted there. 

As we go through all the pre-draft process, and this proves to be the case, then I'm 100% on board with you. But if these guys show they are #1 types, we have to get one.

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21 minutes ago, section314 said:

Watching the game yesterday, we need to use  our two first rounders on a pash rusher and a #1 receiver. Anything else would be criminal.

If that is your thinking, then the Jets should fall down to the lower half of the 1st round, build more draft capital, and look at guys like Drake London and Treylon Burks, or look at one of the top TE.  A top TE would do as much for this offense as a top tiered WR.  This is another draft that is deep with WR.  I am sure we will take one.  It is VERY unfortunate that Mims did not work out.  Its easy to say he was a wasted pick.  However, at the time, he was a steal.  Oh well.

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7 minutes ago, KRL said:

Unless something drastic takes place it looks like we'll be picking #4 which
would probably take us out of Hutchinson & Thibodeaux.  When Michigan plays 
Georgia keep an eye on Hutchunson's running mate David Ojabo.  His frame
looks like he would fit as a 4-3 DE:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/stats/_/id/4426507/david-ojabo

    

Big fan of Ojaba, he'd be my 3rd choice of Edge for sure. Karlaftis is good as well. Sucks not to be in on the top 2 guys but the drop off isn't as massive as some would have you think.

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27 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

In defense of the D, they were on to something like the #7 and #8 Safeties for the season; the #2 slot CB; and other than Huff and Rankins the D line was made up of guys who rarely, if ever, get game snaps.

There is no defense of the D. They have sucked all year regardless. Worst defense in the league even when they were healthier. 

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10 minutes ago, KRL said:

Unless something drastic takes place it looks like we'll be picking #4 which
would probably take us out of Hutchinson & Thibodeaux.  When Michigan plays 
Georgia keep an eye on Hutchunson's running mate David Ojabo.  His frame
looks like he would fit as a 4-3 DE:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/stats/_/id/4426507/david-ojabo

    

You never know KRL.  Detroit and/or Houston could take a QB, and JAX might want more OLine insurance because of their investment in the 'QB of the decade' Lawrence.  

That being said, Ojabo and Karlaftis would be alright picks as well.  

I can't see JD staying put with two potential top ten picks.  If he moves down, he could set himself up again for the following year's draft, while still coming away with two picks in the first round.

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8 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

If that is your thinking, then the Jets should fall down to the lower half of the 1st round, build more draft capital, and look at guys like Drake London and Treylon Burks, or look at one of the top TE.  A top TE would do as much for this offense as a top tiered WR.  This is another draft that is deep with WR.  I am sure we will take one.  It is VERY unfortunate that Mims did not work out.  Its easy to say he was a wasted pick.  However, at the time, he was a steal.  Oh well.

This is true. At the time people were surprised that he fell to the 2nd round and were very happy to get him there. Now, with the 20/20 hindsight many are saying it's another JD wasted draft pick. It was a reasonable pick, especially with the state of our receivers but for some reason he just didn't work out. He has the physical tools. 

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13 minutes ago, KRL said:

Unless something drastic takes place it looks like we'll be picking #4 which
would probably take us out of Hutchinson & Thibodeaux.  When Michigan plays 
Georgia keep an eye on Hutchunson's running mate David Ojabo.  His frame
looks like he would fit as a 4-3 DE:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/stats/_/id/4426507/david-ojabo

    

Sign Barnette from the Eagles, Draft Karlaftis at #4 and Linderbaum or a WR (Garrett) at #6. I would prefer a trade down but sometimes just need to take the players you want when your OTC. Either of those 3 should make excellent pros.

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1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Good thoughts. I think Berrios could be the full-time slot guy. The defense blows whether Williams plays or not. Both first rounders used on pass rushers I' be fine with. It's the second most important position after QB. 

Tevin Coleman is a decent back, just always nicked up. Hard to commit anything to him.

I agree that Berrios could be a full time slot WR.   He has good hands, is quick after the catch and has a toughness that the rest of the WR group simply doesnt.  Mims should be embarrassed to show his fact at the facility at this point.

I think Coleman would be an excellent 3rd RB but JD needs to find a backup to carter - someone like Robert Jones would be an excellent complement to carter and RB is a position you can pay for in FA so that you dont need to use a draft pick on someone.

I really like Kroft as the 2nd TE and hopefully we can find a starter in the draft. 

Defensively its great that we were able to get all these young CBs game experience and Hall can be a real "#1" in this defense as but Saleh needs to figure out how to fix the run defense.  Guys like Phillips and Foley are excellent run stoppers and have been really marginalized in this defense which has to be fixed. 

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2 minutes ago, RevisIsland610 said:

This is true. At the time people were surprised that he fell to the 2nd round and were very happy to get him there. Now, with the 20/20 hindsight many are saying it's another JD wasted draft pick. It was a reasonable pick, especially with the state of our receivers but for some reason he just didn't work out. He has the physical tools. 

Given this teams decade-long hiatus from the playoffs, I get why people are upset.  But it is just not realistic to think a GM will hit on every pick.  That 2020 draft had a lot of hope, and is NOT looking that well.  Chalk it up to JD's first draft, COVID, whatever you want.  I loved the first three picks.  I have no issue with any of them.  Unfortunately, it is not looking so good for them.  That is how the draft goes sometime.  

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20 minutes ago, KRL said:

Unless something drastic takes place it looks like we'll be picking #4 which
would probably take us out of Hutchinson & Thibodeaux.  When Michigan plays 
Georgia keep an eye on Hutchunson's running mate David Ojabo.  His frame
looks like he would fit as a 4-3 DE:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/stats/_/id/4426507/david-ojabo

    

I wouldn't rule us out just yet. Jax needs o-line help in the worst way and Cam Robinson was playing on the franchise tag this year. It's possible he's gone and they need a LT, and Neal would be there for the taking. 

The Lions/Texans could potentially take a QB (or another team falls in love and they trade up for one). Which would potentially give us one of Thibodeaux or Hutchinson. 

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11 minutes ago, PLO said:

I honestly don't think there's a number one receiver in this draft. The position has really good depth to it, but I think we've been lulled into a mindset where you can just draft a receiver high and he'll automatically turn out a number one because of recent drafts, which were historic for the position. 

Look back over the last few drafts and have a look at the receivers taken in the top 50 or so overall picks. Many of them  are levels ahead of the top WRs in this draft at the same stage. Elijah Moore would (or should) likely be taken ahead of all the WRs from this draft, let alone before we get to names like Chase, Lamb, Jefferson, Devonta Smith etc

Point is, you don't reach for a position just because you need to fill it, and a lot of the highly rated WRs from this draft are not legit first rounders and thus shouldn't be drafted there. 

I don't think we need to look at it as drafting a #1 WR.  If there is one, then fine, but we need weapons not designated #1 WRs.  I agree about Moore.  I think that is what these guys want.  Weapons and they can make it work with multiple slot type guys, not necessary #1 WR.  Big slots or guys considered too small to play outside.  I haven't seen many guys this year I would want at the top of the draft, but I am sure it is a position they will target.  

I agree, you don't just take a WR in the 1st because playmaker is so important.  You do it where there is value.  The 2016 draft produced Michael Thomas and Tyreek Hill, but long before those guys teams whiffed on Corey Coleman, Laquon Treadwell and Josh Doctson.  

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25 minutes ago, KRL said:

Unless something drastic takes place it looks like we'll be picking #4 which
would probably take us out of Hutchinson & Thibodeaux.  When Michigan plays 
Georgia keep an eye on Hutchunson's running mate David Ojabo.  His frame
looks like he would fit as a 4-3 DE:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/stats/_/id/4426507/david-ojabo

    

Ojabo has a higher ceiling than Hutchinson, but is obviously not near the latter as a finished product right now. My dream draft would have been to get Thibs and Ojabo with those first two picks, then the Jets defence starts to become a real problem for the rest of the league. Both of them have legit NFL moves right now to get to the opposition QB, combined with the freaky athleticism that gives offensive linemen fits. Hutchinson isn't quite as freaky but tends to overwhelm opponents at the college level through power and motor. I tend to think he won't have the same impact in the NFL.

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1 hour ago, KRL said:

Normally with another season down the drain I would be more concerned with
draft position than a win.  But it looks like the Jets are going to have
four picks within the first 50 selections, so if Joe Douglas can't improve
this roster shame on him.  So I'm glad the Jets beat JAX 26-21 and "doubled"
their win total from last year, but with two bad teams and so many players
missing there's not a ton to analyze:

Special Teams

- Braxton Berrios isn't and shouldn't be anything more than our #4/#5 WR
next year.  BUT he's an excellent returner who solidified a place on this
team with a 102 yard TD return yesterday.  On top of that credit to Berrios
for making tough catches over the middle and not having the case of the
"dropsies" that too many of our WR have.

Defense

- Nothing was impressive about the defensive effort.  I know Quinnen Williams
and John Franklin-Myers didn't play but there was no pass rush which enabled
Trevor Lawrence all day to throw.  The run defense was mediocre (31 rushes / 
132 yards) and CJ Mosley dropped a game ending INT which almost became the game
losing TD.  Looking forward I want the DE spot reconfigured, Carl Lawson needs
to come back healthy and I want Bryce Huff kept.  After that two high draft picks
have to be used on pass rushers.  With those moves I would rotate Lawson, Franklin-
Myers, Draft Pick, Draft Pick and Huff at DE.  And to get as many pass rushers
on the field I would kick Franklin-Myers inside to DT on passing downs.  Without
big time talent and constant pressure from the front four this defense will be
continually picked apart.

Offense

- Fantastic commitment to the running game and excellent production (36 rushes /
273 yards).  But if they do it against TB and/or BUF I'll be more impressed.
Michael Carter continues to demonstrate elite "contact balance" and explosion as
he generated 118 yards on 16 rushes.  And don't be surprised that we aren't seeing
Ty Johnson anymore after his 3 drop fiasco a couple of games ago.  I didn't think
it was possible but I could see Tevin Coleman being brought back next year (14
rushes / 57 yards) when healthy he hits the hole quickly and shows good speed.

- How sad is this stat, Conor McDermott had more catches, yards and TD's than Denzel
Mims and Jeff Smith combined (1/1/1 to 0/0/0).  We either need to sign a free agent
WR or draft one high.

QB

- Zach Wilson was in "game manager" mode which didn't generate much in the way of stats
(14/22, 102 yards, TD).  But credit to him for displaying good judgment on when to leave
the pocket, as Wilson generated 91 yards on 4 rushes and a TD.  Baby steps to be sure and
I still have questions about whether he can be a franchise QB.  Let's see what Wilson
does against two playoff teams (TB & BUF) who are fighting for seeding.

I understand how you feel about the need for more pass rushers, but I feel the Jets need a stud linebacker to help with the run defense next year.  If Carl Lawson comes back healthy, then he is the pass rusher that the jets must rely on.  The Jets need a #1 wide receiver, which they do not currently have.  If Moses leaves via free agency next year, then I would pick a stud tackle with one of the 1st picks in the draft.  The Jets need a starting safety, tight end, and a stud cornerback.  It would make sense to have another top line running back to go with Michael Carter as well.

With all of these needs, to focus on not (1) but (2) new pass rushers I feel will not happen, and is a pipe dream.

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46 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

If that is your thinking, then the Jets should fall down to the lower half of the 1st round, build more draft capital, and look at guys like Drake London and Treylon Burks, or look at one of the top TE.  A top TE would do as much for this offense as a top tiered WR.  This is another draft that is deep with WR.  I am sure we will take one.  It is VERY unfortunate that Mims did not work out.  Its easy to say he was a wasted pick.  However, at the time, he was a steal.  Oh well.

At the time he was a steal, maybe.  But maybe other teams had red flags on him, which explains why he dropped.  And also why we traded out of the first draft slot without taking him.  Maybe we got cute and talked ourselves into drafting him when he fall after our trade out.  Sometimes it’s worth over drafting a player you are super confident in than convincing yourself you got a steal when a guy dropped even after you traded out.  

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Let's be realistic, for the 2 picks in the first round, probably one will be offense, one will be defense.  It seems to me that Linderbaum might be better value with the 2nd #1 than Burks - I guess we'll have to see how Burks measures out.

I would say, the #1 priority in FA is to sign a top WR.  It won't be easy for us to sign a top anything, but it seems more likely for us to sign a top WR than most other positions.  Then we'll have Corey David, Moore, and the FA, and we won't be so desperate... 

I would go DE / Linderbaum / TE with our first 3 picks (assuming we sign a WR FA).

 

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10 minutes ago, Phillyjet said:

At the time he was a steal, maybe.  But maybe other teams had red flags on him, which explains why he dropped.  And also why we traded out of the first draft slot without taking him.  Maybe we got cute and talked ourselves into drafting him when he fall after our trade out.  Sometimes it’s worth over drafting a player you are super confident in than convincing yourself you got a steal when a guy dropped even after you traded out.  

I agree, I think the whole league had concerns with Mims - even JD.  He wouldn't have traded back if he loved him.

I'd also like to think that he learned his lesson.  You know in 2021 he really wanted to trade down from #33 to recoup the picks he gave up to get AVT.  But he saw a player he loved, and he took him.  He trusted his board, that some players were much better than the next one (AVT as well), and was aggressive to get them.

 

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