Jameson Williams likely ACL and MCL tear

[AFJF]

 

[Barry McCockinner]

Can the Jets even consider guys coming off injuries like this given their recent trouble with injuries? I don't think they can.

[Hal N of Provo]

1 minute ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Can the Jets even consider guys coming off injuries like this given their recent trouble with injuries? I don't think they can.

At some point you can,  but another team can afford the risk earlier than the Jets can

[Lith]

19 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

At some point you can,  but another team can afford the risk earlier than the Jets can

Agreed.  We are trying to develop a young QB, we can't afford to take a risk on a guy who might need a redshirt season, and at best is likely to miss the offseason and TC. 

This should take Williams out of the equation for us uness he drops considerably.

[Peace Frog]

39 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Can the Jets even consider guys coming off injuries like this given their recent trouble with injuries? I don't think they can.

Worked with Bryce Hall. Bless Austin not so much. 

[Be_a_Jet]

If you draft him you have to know he won’t be playing year 1. 
 

Damn, feel bad for him 

[Chrebetfan80]

what a shame, he was on his way to being most likely the first WR off the board come the draft.  I was really excited to see him in the predraft process and as everyone knows I was very high on his abilities at the position.  Crazy how much that offense suffered without him.  he was their second leading receiver and only played a half basically. 

Feel for the kid, terrible story.  He's a junior I believe, so I wonder if he jsut stays put one more year. 

[Bruce Harper]

If you draft him you have to know he won’t be playing year 1. 
 
Damn, feel bad for him 

And not sure you can count on him coming back with 4.3 speed and outrageous acceleration.


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[derp]

4 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

what a shame, he was on his way to being most likely the first WR off the board come the draft.  I was really excited to see him in the predraft process and as everyone knows I was very high on his abilities at the position.  Crazy how much that offense suffered without him.  he was their second leading receiver and only played a half basically. 

Feel for the kid, terrible story.  He's a junior I believe, so I wonder if he jsut stays put one more year. 

I kind of think going back would be prudent especially with one year of production. Of course it also could be a take the rookie contract and run scenario - even if he goes day two it's still life changing money for just about anyone. Although I guess it depends what kind of insurance policy he could get - but I imagine another injury next year would really damage his stock.

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, derp said:

I kind of think going back would be prudent especially with one year of production. Of course it also could be a take the rookie contract and run scenario - even if he goes day two it's still life changing money for just about anyone. Although I guess it depends what kind of insurance policy he could get - but I imagine another injury next year would really damage his stock.

He should still come out.  He’ll get some money from his loss of value insurance, but more importantly he will be able to get to free agency a year earlier and that should make up for lost revenue from draft position.  

[Chrebetfan80]

2 minutes ago, derp said:

I kind of think going back would be prudent especially with one year of production. Of course it also could be a take the rookie contract and run scenario - even if he goes day two it's still life changing money for just about anyone. Although I guess it depends what kind of insurance policy he could get - but I imagine another injury next year would really damage his stock.

its hard to think whats the best way to go.  You make a good point on how another catastrophic injury would probably tank his stock.  if he enters it becomes very interesting to see who would grab him and where given he'll probably be out his entire first season, or at least most of it.  

[Columbia Jet Fan]

Williams will almost assuredly be able to play next year. Comparing his injury to Geoge Pickens... Pickens tore his ACL in mid March and played a game in late November. Thats eight months. Even if you assume nine months for Williams he will still be available in October. 

The problem is more (as someone alluded to above) - what will he look like after his injury? I tend to think of ACLs as being a no biggie for long term given how often they incur - but look at Saquan Barkley. He hasn't really looked as explosive since he tore his ACL in early 2020...

Bryce Hall was a projected 2nd round pick (maybe third) before he tore his ACL in October the year before he was drafted. He fell to the fifth round. Jameson Williams was a top 15 pick - I'd guess he falls out of the first with this injury - but can't see him falling to the third round. If he was there for our third round pick I'd take him all day - the question is would you risk it with one of our two early 2nd round picks. I'm guessing the Jets will say no given how many other options there will be at WR. 

Really sucks for the player. 

[nycdan]

It's an interesting question.  I think he drops below Burks, Wilson and Olave for sure, and probably London and Dotson as well depending on what teams are looking for.  I'm just guessing here, but I think he would still be the pick after those five for almost any team.  You're giving up a few weeks of the season and taking some additional risk, but really, if you project him to have a 10+ year career, it's not that much.  And in return, you are getting arguably the #1 or #2 WR in the draft. 

Honestly, I'd be shocked if he drops out of round 1, depending on the prognosis, and I'd be fine snapping him up with our first 2nd round pick if we don't take a WR before that.  

To put another spin on it, how would you feel if the Pats took him in the mid-20s?  And honestly, I would be shocked if KC passed on him.

 

[section314]

7 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

what a shame, he was on his way to being most likely the first WR off the board come the draft.  I was really excited to see him in the predraft process and as everyone knows I was very high on his abilities at the position.  Crazy how much that offense suffered without him.  he was their second leading receiver and only played a half basically. 

Feel for the kid, terrible story.  He's a junior I believe, so I wonder if he jsut stays put one more year. 

That's a great point. 

[nycdan]

Not sure he should stay.  My guess is - pending a decent prognosis - he's at worst, an early 2nd round pick now although I would be surprised if he got past teams like NE, KC and GB even in the 1st round.  If he does fall to the 2nd, he is a FA a year earlier than he would have been (no 5th year option), so that would get him to his FA year two years earlier than if he stays and gets drafted in the 1st round in 2023.  Plus, if he stays and plays, and re-injures, he might never even get that first contract.

Getting drafted early 1st is the dream, but I'm not sure it's worth the risk for him.

[BCJet]

3 hours ago, nycdan said:

Not sure he should stay.  My guess is - pending a decent prognosis - he's at worst, an early 2nd round pick now although I would be surprised if he got past teams like NE, KC and GB even in the 1st round.  If he does fall to the 2nd, he is a FA a year earlier than he would have been (no 5th year option), so that would get him to his FA year two years earlier than if he stays and gets drafted in the 1st round in 2023.  Plus, if he stays and plays, and re-injures, he might never even get that first contract.

Getting drafted early 1st is the dream, but I'm not sure it's worth the risk for him.

I agree with this and with what you posted above.  

First off, if he cant play until mid October, then he misses half the college season, why go back?

Secondly, for him to hit FA early, that likely will make up for some lost income but from a team perspective if he looks ok by draft time and your staff doesnt see long term loss of ability, then is missing 1/2 months really that big of a deal for a potential starter?  Does anyone on the board even remember the games that Hall missed?

If he is there in the 2nd it will be a very interesting scenario.

[Butterfield]

Drops to pick 38?  Sure, take him.  

[Hal N of Provo]

5 hours ago, nycdan said:

It's an interesting question.  I think he drops below Burks, Wilson and Olave for sure, and probably London and Dotson as well depending on what teams are looking for.  I'm just guessing here, but I think he would still be the pick after those five for almost any team.  You're giving up a few weeks of the season and taking some additional risk, but really, if you project him to have a 10+ year career, it's not that much.  And in return, you are getting arguably the #1 or #2 WR in the draft. 

Honestly, I'd be shocked if he drops out of round 1, depending on the prognosis, and I'd be fine snapping him up with our first 2nd round pick if we don't take a WR before that.  

To put another spin on it, how would you feel if the Pats took him in the mid-20s?  And honestly, I would be shocked if KC passed on him.

 

100% this, but for the Jets he’s not a good pick IMO until the 3rd round.  
 

Some teams like KC can wait, while the Jets need contributors.  Even 38th might be early for the Jets, but all the late 1st rounders will be thinking about it.  

[ID.]

5 hours ago, Butterfield said:

Drops to pick 38?  Sure, take him.  

Burks at 10, Jameson at 38?   Overkill?
 

 

[derp]

8 minutes ago, ID. said:

Burks at 10, Jameson at 38?   Overkill?
 

 

Very fun for this fan, but I doubt it happens.

[Lith]

19 hours ago, Columbia Jet Fan said:

Williams will almost assuredly be able to play next year. Comparing his injury to Geoge Pickens... Pickens tore his ACL in mid March and played a game in late November. Thats eight months. Even if you assume nine months for Williams he will still be available in October. 

Pickens may have been back in November, but he was on a very limited snap count.  Even in Monday night's game, I doubt he played 50% of our offensive snaps.  Made one huge play, but aside from that he has not been much of a factor since returning. 

What concerns me about Williams to a team like the Jets is we are trying to develop a young QB.  He needs the guys that he is going to grow with in camp, playing in preseason games and available for 17 games this season.   I don't see Williams being that guy due to injury -- for a more established team with some depth at receiver, he could be a great pick late R1.  I don't see him as an option for us.

A healthy Pickens on day 2, now we're talking.

[PLO]

Pickens is a third rounder for me, I honestly see close value between him and a Christian Watson in the 4th round, and, to be honest, I don't really see how either player fits our system. We already have a Mims on our roster who these players aren't that far off in terms of  output/style/capability. 

[KRL]

If Douglas trades down sometime in the draft (which I expect) I wouldn't mind using one

of the extra picks on Williams.  Use a 4th-5th on him and stash/rehab him for a year

[ryu79]

Feel for this kid. What a shame. 

[derp]

1 hour ago, Lith said:

Pickens may have been back in November, but he was on a very limited snap count.  Even in Monday night's game, I doubt he played 50% of our offensive snaps.  Made one huge play, but aside from that he has not been much of a factor since returning. 

What concerns me about Williams to a team like the Jets is we are trying to develop a young QB.  He needs the guys that he is going to grow with in camp, playing in preseason games and available for 17 games this season.   I don't see Williams being that guy due to injury -- for a more established team with some depth at receiver, he could be a great pick late R1.  I don't see him as an option for us.

A healthy Pickens on day 2, now we're talking.

Do you think Pickens is a good fit in the scheme the Jets are running? And is he actually a plus plus testing athlete like folks seem to think when we keep talking about a healthy Pickens or is he just good at playing WR?

I saw a piece from a while back - pre injury - where Terrence Edwards said he’s maybe a 4.6 guy and a plus version of Alshon Jeffrey. Know Douglas has emphasized speed before.

I can’t honestly tell if the Jets want a basketball team type group of receivers and think they need a WR like that or just want to run out a bunch of explosive YAC dudes.

Note that I think speed is pretty overrated for WR’s but feel like Pickens may not be a super realistic Jets target, and if he’s not that may be better for him anyway. Put him on the Chargers.

[Adoni Beast]

19 minutes ago, KRL said:

If Douglas trades down sometime in the draft (which I expect) I wouldn't mind using one

of the extra picks on Williams.  Use a 4th-5th on him and stash/rehab him for a year

[Peace Frog]

1 hour ago, Lith said:

Pickens may have been back in November, but he was on a very limited snap count.  Even in Monday night's game, I doubt he played 50% of our offensive snaps.  Made one huge play, but aside from that he has not been much of a factor since returning. 

What concerns me about Williams to a team like the Jets is we are trying to develop a young QB.  He needs the guys that he is going to grow with in camp, playing in preseason games and available for 17 games this season.   I don't see Williams being that guy due to injury -- for a more established team with some depth at receiver, he could be a great pick late R1.  I don't see him as an option for us.

A healthy Pickens on day 2, now we're talking.

Lith @Paradis said he thought Pickens may have had character issues? Or maybe off field issues, can't remember.  Yes? 

[Paradis]

58 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Lith @Paradis said he thought Pickens may have had character issues? Or maybe off field issues, can't remember.  Yes? 

Yea I hadn’t heard that but apparently Lith had through the dawg grapevine?… can you enlighten us, cause otherwise that’s a Keenan Allen caliber steal on Day 2

[derp]

18 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Yea I hadn’t heard that but apparently Lith had through the dawg grapevine?… can you enlighten us, cause otherwise that’s a Keenan Allen caliber steal on Day 2

Skill set comparison or talent comparison?

[Paradis]

32 minutes ago, derp said:

Skill set comparison or talent comparison?

Talent, although they’re not far off 

[derp]

2 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Talent, although they’re not far off 

I feel like Allen’s trump trait was lateral movement and YAC coming out of college, no? Am I missing that with Pickens? I’m probably a little biased because of the Georgia uniforms but I just see slower (straight line and a little less wiggle) AJ Green - frame, body control, etc.

[Cut Jet Penalty Makers]

NE will take Williams if he's there. 

[BklynJetsFan85]

He’s supposedly gunna make a full recovery and will retain his 4.3-4.4 speed. It’s a risk but you look at the ceiling... it may be worth risk (if they decide to trade back tho)

while mocking, I did a trade back with philly in a couple mocks where I got their 2 1st rounders (15,16), 2nd (51), 2022 4th. I’m not sure if you guys like that but I think it’s a solid return. Seattle’s 10th pick, 15, 16, and 3 2nd rounders - could plug a lot of holes


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[nycdan]

1 hour ago, BklynJetsFan85 said:

He’s supposedly gunna make a full recovery and will retain his 4.3-4.4 speed. It’s a risk but you look at the ceiling... it may be worth risk (if they decide to trade back tho)

while mocking, I did a trade back with philly in a couple mocks where I got their 2 1st rounders (15,16), 2nd (51), 2022 4th. I’m not sure if you guys like that but I think it’s a solid return. Seattle’s 10th pick, 15, 16, and 3 2nd rounders - could plug a lot of holes


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That's more than a solid return.  It's a fantasy.  In this draft, there's nothing at #4 worth that kind of trade up for PHI.  If we could get #15 and #19 I'd run to take it.

[Lith]

On 1/12/2022 at 9:52 AM, Peace Frog said:

Lith @Paradis said he thought Pickens may have had character issues? Or maybe off field issues, can't remember.  Yes? 

 

On 1/12/2022 at 10:52 AM, Paradis said:

Yea I hadn’t heard that but apparently Lith had through the dawg grapevine?… can you enlighten us, cause otherwise that’s a Keenan Allen caliber steal on Day 2

Sorry, just seeing this now.'

Problem with Pickens is immaturity.  He has made bonehead plays that have hurt his team, on multiple occasions when he has lost his temper on field.  He has gotten personal fouls when on the bench, gotten into fights (with opponents not teammates) during games.  Was suspended , I believe for SEC Championship game a couple years back after fighting with a Georgia Tech DB.

He is young, immature and hot headed and that has hurt his team at times.  He is also immensely talented and I think he was held back by QB play at Georgia and our scheme which does not give WRs opportunity to put up big numbers.  I do think the interview part of the process will be huge for him.  Sometimes immature 20 year olds grow up and out of it, other times they don't.