Scathing and sad article in today's star ledger on Manfred and Baseball by Bob Klapisch

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, Green Ghost said:

As far as “the kids”… baseball is not dying, ?

More young boys and girls are playing baseball (and softball) than play youth football.

If there’s a sport that has to worry about losing those young people, it’s football. Parents don’t want their kids playing.

If it weren’t for fantasy leagues and now legalized gambling, the NFL wouldn’t be nearly as popular as it is.

Growing sports amongst kids… 1. soccer 2. basketball 3. baseball/softball 4. lacrosse

I think tackle football is losing ground to all of them at the youth level.

Playing baseball as a youth is not equal to watching major league baseball on TV as an adult. I played baseball through college and haven't paid attention to MLB games on a daily basis in well over 15 years. 

The NFL's TV ratings are astronomical. 

[tfine]

Nothing will ever beat 90s baseball or the Yankees/Sox rivalry in the 2000s…I remember going to the stadium during those games…you can cut the tension with a knife.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, Green Ghost said:

As far as “the kids”… baseball is not dying, ?

More young boys and girls are playing baseball (and softball) than play youth football.

If there’s a sport that has to worry about losing those young people, it’s football. Parents don’t want their kids playing.

If it weren’t for fantasy leagues and now legalized gambling, the NFL wouldn’t be nearly as popular as it is.

Growing sports amongst kids… 1. soccer 2. basketball 3. baseball/softball 4. lacrosse

I think tackle football is losing ground to all of them at the youth level.

This.

The data doesn’t lie. 

[More Cowbell]

9 hours ago, section314 said:

Mods, please indulge this in this forum, Wanted to post here for it to get maximum visibility. I would encourage all baseball fans to read it. Klapisch nails it. 

Is there not a link here or am I going blind?

[section314]

6 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Is there not a link here or am I going blind?

No. I put an additional post on thread. It’s an article you can not share. You are fine….yours truly is a technical moron.?

[Anthony Jet]

2 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

As far as “the kids”… baseball is not dying, ?

More young boys and girls are playing baseball (and softball) than play youth football.

If there’s a sport that has to worry about losing those young people, it’s football. Parents don’t want their kids playing.

If it weren’t for fantasy leagues and now legalized gambling, the NFL wouldn’t be nearly as popular as it is.

Growing sports amongst kids… 1. soccer 2. basketball 3. baseball/softball 4. lacrosse

I think tackle football is losing ground to all of them at the youth level.

Feel like I’ve been hearing about the amazing growth spurt soccer is having for the passed 25 years 

[Matt39]

11 minutes ago, Anthony Jet said:

Feel like I’ve been hearing about the amazing growth spurt soccer is having for the passed 25 years 

Yeah it’s not really happening like that. Youth football has never been more popular in the areas that are the pipeline anyways.

[TuscanyTile2]

8 hours ago, shawn306 said:

Baseball needs to get back to its roots. The reason baseball is so boring right now 

1) The amount of time between pitches. Pitchers walking off the mound, guys stepping out of the batters box, adjusting gloves, helmets, jock straps, you can't be going seconds between pitches. The pitch clock has been in the minor leagues for a couple of years now so a decent amount of these guys are used to it already.

2) Strikeout/HR/Walk - pretty much now what you see in baseball. Blame on it on Analytics, blame it on the thinking of pulling everything, exit veloclity, Launch angle, whatever. The thinking in baseball has to change that it is ok to go and steal a base, lay down a bunt. play hit and run. hit the ball where they a'int as Wee Willie Keeler used to say. Pitchers now are throwing as hard as they can instead for as long as they can instead of really pitching. Hitting corners, up in the strike zone, down, in, out. Another big reason why so many pitchers are getting hurt and missing years because of Tommy John Surgery. 

3) Let the managers manage - Please I am tired of the managers basically being puppets for the Front office putting out the lineups that their analytics department thinks is the best lineup. Can you imagine a Billy Martin, Earl Weaver, Sparky Anderson having to sit in a meeting with some analytic folks while they tell them what lineup he should be put out there ? 

4) I know this won't happen because of money but go back to limiting playoff teams to the three division winners in each league and one wild card. There are too many teams in the post season. 

5) Institute a "Salary Floor". Make teams like the Marlins, Royals, Rays, spend some money instead of pocketing all the cash from the richer teams. If you can't afford 120 million as a minimum Salary floor then those owners should not be owning a MLB team.

Just get back to the basics. I saw a thing on MLB network this morning stating that the average time of a MLB game in 1981 was like 2 hours and 30 minutes. Now it is around 3 hours and 15 minutes. Wayyyyy too long

Nailed it.  Analytics have really taken over.  That's why it's the 3 outcome game and why managers are not allowed to manage anymore.  I hate the expanded playoffs.  I hate expansion in general.  The league needs to contract.  Get rid of like 6-8 teams and reduce the size of the postseason.  They're talking like 12-14 teams making the post season.  What's the point of the long regular season then?  It just makes no sense whatsoever.  The Giants and Dodgers had all-time great seasons last year but neither even made it to the World Series.  

[TuscanyTile2]

5 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Baseball is dead.  Hockey is exploding all over the world it will take over Baseball popularity if Bettmann would just get out of his own way.

I read the NBA is exploding in popularity.  I have no idea why though because I find it almost unwatchable.  MLB has gone (and continues to go) downhill but I still do watch.  The NFL has been going downhill as well but it will take longer since it's truly America's game.  I don't know if the NHL is actually expanding but it probably has gone downhill the least over the years (and has improved in some ways).

[CSNY]

11 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I read the NBA is exploding in popularity.  I have no idea why though because I find it almost unwatchable.  MLB has gone (and continues to go) downhill but I still do watch.  The NFL has been going downhill as well but it will take longer since it's truly America's game.  I don't know if the NHL is actually expanding but it probably has gone downhill the least over the years (and has improved in some ways).

Agree with you 100% 

NBA is horrible just a bunch of guys chucking it up from 25 feet 

MLB sucks 

NFL games are quickly becoming a flag football league 

NHL nothing better than playoff hockey. Stanley Cup game 7 most exciting event in all sports 

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Maybe you could, but you could also go to reddit and find a cure for cancer. Some remarks on the internet aren't to be taken seriously.  -

(The NFL TV ratings are astronomical - the league basically prints money. The same can't be said for major league baseball)

Im not getting it.  We're fans and those who dont like baseball call it boring and a dying sport, those that like it like myself, my kids and others here dont agree.  Thats the point, not that the internet cant be taken seriously.  

Baseball doesnt have to be as successful as football to be successful.  Theres a reason some teams go for billions, like the Mets just did in the MLB.

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, RoadFan said:

This is so wrong.
 

 I know it is dying because there is only one person that I know watches baseball… and I know plenty of sports fans.  

 

Somebody that hates futbol (a/k/a soccer) can acknowledge that it is growing.   Just like somebody that hates baseball can acknowledge it is dying…

Very scientific reasoning at work here

[RoadFan]

1 hour ago, Anthony Jet said:

Feel like I’ve been hearing about the amazing growth spurt soccer is having for the passed 25 years 

MLS started with 10 teams in ‘96, and the league was totally broke for years.  Now they have like 30 teams and cities fighting over expansion franchises.

There are now matches regularly televised from around the world; Premier League, Bundesliga, La Liga, Champions League.

When I was a kid in the 80s and 90s you could watch some matches on the one Spanish channel, and every 4 years during the World Cup.  That’s it.

So yeah, I would call that growth…
 

[RoadFan]

13 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Very scientific reasoning at work here

It doesn’t have to be scientific.  It is just common sense.
 

 25-30 years ago, most people I knew cared about baseball.  Now, only the one guy who is in his mid 60s.

[NIGHT STALKER]

11 hours ago, jbt said:

Baseball needs to make some drastic changes to make it more entertaining to watch.  it will upset the older fans but they wont be around forever.

 

You're right, us OLDER guys won't be around forever and maybe someone will cap your azz before you reach "older" as well...just sayin' 

[usanyj]

Baseball will always be my favorite sport. To me, there is something special about it. I played it my whole life, and just like the jets. The Mets will set my mood at times. 
i think baseball is the ultimate father/son sport, you go out and have a catch with your dad, he throws you some BP, you talk about all the greats.

the one thing I’ll always cherish is the car or train rides to and from the games with my father. Where we talked about life and what the future could hold. Those rides were different than any other car ride. They were special. I want to share that with my child now. So this lock out, it takes that hope away. And to me, aside from not watching the game I love so much, I feel a little cheated from passing that experience along. 
 

those car rides to and from the ball game, man, nothing like it.

[Green Ghost]

2 hours ago, Anthony Jet said:

Feel like I’ve been hearing about the amazing growth spurt soccer is having for the passed 25 years 

Lol, I know what you mean… but I think that has to do with pro leagues catching on here in the U.S. I have to be honest, I fall asleep trying to watch soccer at any level.

As far as kids playing soccer in organized leagues, there’s no doubt how popular it is however. Surely you see that?

[RutgersJetFan]

I love baseball and this thread is making me feel like sh*t for it. 

[TuscanyTile2]

4 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I love baseball and this thread is making me feel like sh*t for it. 

I still will watch and I still feel something about the sport as well.  I love that it's played during the summer and it's the only sport with no clock.  (Of course, they're kind of implementing a pitch clock.  I think they have already but I've never seen a penalty for pitching too slowly).
But a lot has gone wrong with it over the years.  Analytics have taken away the game from managers so the game has FAR LESS personality.  The hitters all swing for the fences (and have a good eye for OBP) so it's all HR/BB/K (boring!)  But stuff like base stealing, hit-and-run, etc are being phased out.  The shift takes away things that look like they would otherwise be hits.  The league is trying to be "more energetic" so there's dance music blaring between innings instead of organ music type stuff.  The announcers are awful these days (luckily, the Mets are an exception and have probably the best announcers in the game).  They're making crazy rules (e.g. 7 inning double-headers, ghost runner in extra innings).  They've been changing the sport in ways that go against the history of the game (which is probably more important in baseball than any other sport for comparison purposes).  They're over-expanding the post-season.  There's talk of 14 teams in the playoffs?!  The regular season is so long that it should weed out a lot of weaker teams.  Less was always more with baseball postseason.  Now it's like, everywhere you look, the sport is being cheapened.  

[Snell41]

To me the problem of baseball is the homogenization of the game. The coaching and teaching has become so uniform across the nation that all the players do everything exactly the same. It’s essentially human “robots” playing the game. Gone are the days of Darryl Strawberry and his signature hitch in his swing, Bob Gibson’s huge leg kick, players with unique batting stances, etc…. Growing up playing wiffle ball we used to “draft” each of our teams and then when batting as certain players you had to emulate them, and when pitching you had to wind up like the guy you were emulating. Now these guys all stand the same, swing the same, wind up the same way, throw at the same arm angles, on and on. You used to be able to look at a blacked out silhouette of a player in his stance and know exactly who that player was. Now, you couldn’t tell the difference between Mike Trout and any old player in the league. It’s honestly boring to watch now.


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[Trotter]

5 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

To me the problem of baseball is the homogenization of the game. The coaching and teaching has become so uniform across the nation that all the players do everything exactly the same. It’s essentially human “robots” playing the game. Gone are the days of Darryl Strawberry and his signature hitch in his swing, Bob Gibson’s huge leg kick, players with unique batting stances, etc…. Growing up playing wiffle ball we used to “draft” each of our teams and then when batting as certain players you had to emulate them, and when pitching you had to wind up like the guy you were emulating. Now these guys all stand the same, swing the same, wind up the same way, throw at the same arm angles, on and on. You used to be able to look at a blacked out silhouette of a player in his stance and know exactly who that player was. Now, you couldn’t tell the difference between Mike Trout and any old player in the league. It’s honestly boring to watch now.


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There is a lot of truth in this post.

Imagine if a modern day player flapped his arm as Joe Morgan did. Every coach would try and break them of the habit - yet say nothing if you are adjusting your crotch, tightening the wristbands or other rituals after every pitch.

Bob Gibson was such a great player - a bit underated in my opinion but what a talent - throw his no nonsense personality in there and he was just phenomenal to watch play the game, 

 

[Jet Nut]

11 hours ago, RoadFan said:

It doesn’t have to be scientific.  It is just common sense.
 

 25-30 years ago, most people I knew cared about baseball.  Now, only the one guy who is in his mid 60s.

And as I simply said my three 20 year olds love going to games, two follow it as do I and my friends

[RVAJet815]

16 hours ago, BeaconJet said:

Personally, I love baseball, I love going to games, even though I can only afford to go to a game or two a year, I do fantasy baseball with friends, and Im in that late 40s demographic, grew up going to Mets games with my dad in the 80's.  I have a 20 yr old nephew who loves baseball too, but his dad is a baseball fan as well, so that may contribute to it. 

At the same time, I do see how there are definite issues with the speed and excitement of the game. 

But to say baseball is dying - the Braves parent company just released earnings and they made a bundle of cash last season. There are plenty of teams making money. MLB is the only league I believe that doesnt fully reveal their earnings I believe, which is telling?

The clubs are making bank, whether they want to admit it or not is another question. Again though, like you, my boys (at least the older two) and my cousins kids of that age that are exposed to the game, still love it. I've noticed a lot of the "baseball is boring" crowd have kids that don't know or care about the game, and that's fine and makes sense. Again, we're big fans here, them included. We watch the squirrels games here in Richmond  (AA  giants affiliate) and we watch the MLB games a lot of the time through the season. It's just interesting how much that makes a difference. 

[JetPotato]

11 hours ago, RoadFan said:

It doesn’t have to be scientific.  It is just common sense.
 

 25-30 years ago, most people I knew cared about baseball.  Now, only the one guy who is in his mid 60s.

Who knew the secret to knowledge was all about "most people you know"?

[Jet Nut]

7 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I love baseball and this thread is making me feel like sh*t for it. 

Ah, its like the uniform threads.  You like the new uniform you talk about how this is the way the league is going and its 2020 take on the old uniform.  You dont like it and its ugly as balls and the Jets are morons, believe everyone hates them while polls show thats wrong.  Everyone has an opinion, everyone thinks theirs is 100% right 

[Jet Nut]

11 hours ago, RoadFan said:

It doesn’t have to be scientific.  It is just common sense.
 

 25-30 years ago, most people I knew cared about baseball.  Now, only the one guy who is in his mid 60s.

No, it has to be scientific with actual facts and real numbers not whatever your friends like.

 

[the Claw]

An afternoon at the local minor league park is still a really fun afternoon. It’s a shame how baseball has fallen, but I don’t think I’ve watched an MLB game since the early 90’s, and I was living in Chicago when the Cubs won. I was happy for the city, but I could not care any less about watching it.  

[nj meadowlands]

Baseball is the best sport.  Fight me.

[Trotter]

19 hours ago, JetPotato said:

Baseball will always be boring to those with low intelligence and/or short attention spans.

The game, like every other, has evolved with bigger, stronger, faster athletes and stronger metrics. The league has failed miserably to adjust in kind. The shift should be banned immediately, for example. The "just hit it where they aren't" folks have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Yogi Berra wasn't facing defenses that had 4 outfielders, truly understood tendencies on a pitch-by-pitch basis or pitchers that live in the high 90's, and rarely saw the same pitcher more than twice in a game.

Not sure if the low intelligence comment was sarcasim or opinion but we often hear how the game is a thinking man's game or requires strategic thinking and today's fan is simply not interested in doing so.

What is interesting is Baseball is basically a video game now. Gone are the days of strategic thinking or adhoc decisions of a manager based on his gut or simply remembering a situation in the past that would apply.

Baseball is driven by software programs that ironically are developed by humans - yes the same humans who might not be baseball intellects or strategic thinkers.

  

[Warfish]

13 hours ago, RoadFan said:

MLS started with 10 teams in ‘96, and the league was totally broke for years.  Now they have like 30 teams and cities fighting over expansion franchises.

There are now matches regularly televised from around the world; Premier League, Bundesliga, La Liga, Champions League.

When I was a kid in the 80s and 90s you could watch some matches on the one Spanish channel, and every 4 years during the World Cup.  That’s it.

So yeah, I would call that growth…
 

Agreed.  People who don't see the growth in interest in US Based soccer just aren't looking at the big picture.

Folks gotta stop using "themselves and their five friends" as if that represented the who pool of American sports fans, lol.

[section314]

Other than the day to day excellence, I might agree with you.?

[Anthony Jet]

15 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

Lol, I know what you mean… but I think that has to do with pro leagues catching on here in the U.S. I have to be honest, I fall asleep trying to watch soccer at any level.

As far as kids playing soccer in organized leagues, there’s no doubt how popular it is however. Surely you see that?

Not saying your wrong cause I don’t know. None of my kids or the little kids in my circle I know of play soccer really. Baseball, a lot of flag football, basketball I hear a lot. But who knows. 
 

One of my sons plays hockey, feel like the attendance at has doubled in the last year 

[BeaconJet]

Interesting note from The Athletic:

"The Angels, Diamondbacks, Reds and Tigers owners all opposed MLB’s luxury tax proposal of $220M (previously $210M). MLBPA wants the tax line at $238M. There needs to be approval from 23/30 owners before a new CBA is ratified. (The Athletic)"

And three of these owners (Angels, Diamondbacks, Reds) also opposed Steve Cohen’s purchase of the Mets.

 

So there's part of the 7-8 teams that want to cap spending, and didn't want a big spending owner coming on board with the Mets.  Angels, in their defense, do spend money.  Its an interesting mix of small and big markets, spenders and non-spenders, that want to keep the luxury tax down, for ideological purposes apparently.

[UntouchableCrew]

I enjoy baseball but if you don't think the sport is in decline you probably have blinders on. 

Watch a Sunday Night Baseball national broadcast on ESPN and pay attention to the ads they run. Half of them are for erectile dysfunction. The audience continues to age and they aren't building new stars in what is increasingly a local game with no national drama or importance. It's not an "event."

Any comparison to the NFL is ludicrous, as is the notion that youth sports participation has any correlation whatsoever with popularity as a spectator sport.

[slimjasi]

18 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Im not getting it.  We're fans and those who dont like baseball call it boring and a dying sport, those that like it like myself, my kids and others here dont agree.  Thats the point, not that the internet cant be taken seriously.  

Baseball doesnt have to be as successful as football to be successful.  Theres a reason some teams go for billions, like the Mets just did in the MLB.

Right, but it hasn’t been particularly successful lately and there are some troubling trends that have sparked legitimate concerns about its longterm popularity. 
 

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/as-lockout-drags-on-poll-indicates-mlb-could-be-charting-path-to-irrelevance/1qbmfwrcjfdsr16izao285afnw