Zach Wilson took HUGE strides forward in 2021. The analytics don’t tell the story | Film Breakdown

[southparkcpa]

8 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

If the rest of the team is good you can plug a Baker Mayfield in and be a playoff team.  Soonest that would happen is 23 and in 23 you’d get a camp competition, but it’s another way to win 

2023.......  perhaps but I was referring to 2022.  Your stirring up the same formula that got us here since basically 2014. Bring in McCown, The Beard, etc.    We need a solid starting QB that can play for 5-8 years.  Mayfield has already failed with a solid cast around him.

[slats]

12 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

I guess so, but in 2022 NFL Football, those are shyte numbers tbh. 

They’re not, though, that would be right in the middle of the pack. In fact, those would be  very good numbers for a QB on a run first team. 

[The Crusher]

2 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

2023.......  perhaps but I was referring to 2022.  Your stirring up the same formula that got us here since basically 2014. Bring in McCown, The Beard, etc.    We need a solid starting QB that can play for 5-8 years.  Mayfield has already failed with a solid cast around him.

Yeah, Browns thoroughly vetted Mayfiejd of being a franchise QB with that roster they surrounded him with. He’s just not it!

[TuscanyTile2]

13 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Enough with the stupid agendas, irrational hate, unconditional love stuff and let's wait to see him play. We're only about 78 days from Training Camp.

What else do we have for the next 4 months without these things though?!

 

[UnknownJetFan]

On 5/11/2022 at 10:24 AM, Darnold's Forehead said:

Holy moly training camp hasn’t even started yet and the pro-Wilson propaganda is already starting.

Wasnt Darnold like one of the best QBs in the league towards the end of his rookie season?  Zach played bad last year and the only thing that should change anyone’s perception of him is how he starts his sophomore season.

Well the regime in the offseason after Darnold's 1st season didn't do anywhere near what was needed to make the team better around him. Hopefully that is not the case now with Zack where between O and D the team is better to assist him in being better. But, with that said the competition now is much better in the AFC then when it was after Darnold's 1st season, so who knows if that makes all these 2022 offseason moves a wash between the 2 situations. From my take it is a lot about how Zack does this season, but more about enough of the players around him remaining healthy. We cannot have the injuries we have been experiencing the last few years again and make any progress.  This next man up crap doesn't help when you are down to 4th stringers playing and even starting that have no business being on the active roster.

[Warfish]

5 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

2023.......  perhaps but I was referring to 2022.  Your stirring up the same formula that got us here since basically 2014. Bring in McCown, The Beard, etc.    We need a solid starting QB that can play for 5-8 years.  Mayfield has already failed with a solid cast around him.

In fairness, we also failed with the "draft a QB who can play for 5-8 years" idea as well, Sanchez, Geno, Hackenberg, Darnold, etc.

If Wilson joins that group, and poops the bed in 2022, but the team looks capable, I think it's a very legit question to ask if we 1. go the rookie route yet again or 2. Look for a Veteran who can step in an win.  Not place-hold (like McCown or Fitz) but win.

[Warfish]

3 hours ago, slats said:

They’re not, though, that would be right in the middle of the pack. In fact, those would be  very good numbers for a QB on a run first team. 

3,500 yard 20/12 is good enough eh?

Who is your comparison for this level, another Franchise QB on a run-first team who produces to this level?  Is there a comp?

[FootballLove]

If our safety had gotten over a split second sooner to end the game, Zack's best game would have been a win over Tom Brady and the SB Champs, and the whole world would be talking a different story when it comes to ZW's future.....be we lost the game on a brilliant last second throw/catch from Brady. That was the ESPN story the following week, not Zack's great game.

[slats]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

3,500 yard 20/12 is good enough eh?

Who is your comparison for this level, another Franchise QB on a run-first team who produces to this level?  Is there a comp?

Like I said, that would put him right in the middle of the pack of QB stats last year. If the Jets are as dedicated to the run this season as I expect them to be, I just don’t expect Zach to get the attempts to have this 4000 yard, 30 TD season people are fantasizing about this season. Those would be top ten numbers. Instead, I expect a lot of game managing with a little hero ball thrown in for good measure. It’s all about Zach progressing, not necessarily getting all the way there in one giant leap. 
 
Do I want better than that? Sure, of course I do. But if the Jets get that from Wilson combined with a top ten rushing attack (which I do think is realistic), we’d probably have ourselves a pleasant little season. All of the alleged hot seats would cool down quite a bit. 

[T0mShane]

14 minutes ago, Warfish said:

3,500 yard 20/12 is good enough eh?

Who is your comparison for this level, another Franchise QB on a run-first team who produces to this level?  Is there a comp?

2011 Mark Sanchez

[slats]

16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

2011 Mark Sanchez

True, but I don’t want to be looking at Mark’s 56% comp or 6.4 ypa. Those same numbers, but with 65% and 7.2 ypa is more like what I’d be looking for. 
 
edit: Interestingly, Garoppolo’s numbers from last year would be a decent comp: 68%, 3810 yards, 20 TDs, 12 ints, 8.6 ypa. 

[Bruce Harper]

This guy is a bit of a cheerleader but there’s a place for that.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Biggs]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

Like I said, that would put him right in the middle of the pack of QB stats last year. If the Jets are as dedicated to the run this season as I expect them to be, I just don’t expect Zach to get the attempts to have this 4000 yard, 30 TD season people are fantasizing about this season. Those would be top ten numbers. Instead, I expect a lot of game managing with a little hero ball thrown in for good measure. It’s all about Zach progressing, not necessarily getting all the way there in one giant leap. 
 
Do I want better than that? Sure, of course I do. But if the Jets get that from Wilson combined with a top ten rushing attack (which I do think is realistic), we’d probably have ourselves a pleasant little season. All of the alleged hot seats would cool down quite a bit. 

The 49ers who we model our O after was 29th in passing attempts.  They had over 4200 passing yards and 26 TD's.  Zach should get all the attempts unless he gets hurt.  4,000 yards is the next 10 not the top 10.  30 TD's is the next 10 not the top 10.   If Zach is healthy being in the 2nd 10 in the NFL with the talent invested in this O right now isn't ridiculous.  Joe Burrow in Year 2  had 34TD's and 4,600 yards. Mahomes had over 5,000 and 50 in year 2.  Lamar Jackson had only 3100 but he had 36 passing td's in year 2.   Herbert had 5,000 and 38 year 2.  Derek Carr had just under 4,000 and 32TD's in year 2.  Derek Carr is not a ridiculously high bar for the No. 2 pick in the draft with the talent around him.

Good QB's who don't bust put up good numbers in year 2.  They start showing it in year 2.  Does he need to hit 30TD's and 4,000 yards no, but he should be close if he's good.  The Jets have invested a lot of top picks and FA in the O.  Zach has A plus talent around him at RB, OL and the WR group looks real good.  The TE group isn't all world but it's solid.  This O should move the ball and there will be big plays and TD's in the passing game.

We have traded some good players for draft capital.  We invested it in our O.  We brought in TE and a starting guard in FA.  

If you look at the guys that have been put around Zach this year they are guys who will give him time in the pocket and skill players who can get YAC.  There simply is no excuse for Zach not flashing elite talent and being a top 10 to 15 NFL QB.  That would put him close to 4,000 and 30 if he's healthy for 17 games. 

Lots of young guys struggle because they get drafted on bad teams.  The Jets O with a good QB is an O that should be in the top 10 in a lot of offensive catagories.  If it's not JD hasn't  really drafted or put good FA's in place.  I think he has. 

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, slats said:

True, but I don’t want to be looking at Mark’s 56% comp or 6.4 ypa. Those same numbers, but with 65% and 7.2 ypa is more like what I’d be looking for. 

7.2 is really ambitious. Even Josh Allen put up 6.8 last year. 

[southparkcpa]

41 minutes ago, Warfish said:

In fairness, we also failed with the "draft a QB who can play for 5-8 years" idea as well, Sanchez, Geno, Hackenberg, Darnold, etc.

If Wilson joins that group, and poops the bed in 2022, but the team looks capable, I think it's a very legit question to ask if we 1. go the rookie route yet again or 2. Look for a Veteran who can step in an win.  Not place-hold (like McCown or Fitz) but win.

Im OK with that....  but Mayfield IMO is not that guy.

[Buffalo 24 7]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

7.2 is really ambitious. Even Josh Allen put up 6.8 last year. 

That's cus we threw a lot of short passes to compensate for our non-existent run game during the start of the season.

[slats]

3 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The 49ers who we model our O after was 29th in passing attempts.  They had over 4200 passing yards and 26 TD's.  Zach should get all the attempts unless he gets hurt.  4,000 yards is the next 10 not the top 10.  30 TD's is the next 10 not the top 10.   If Zach is healthy being in the 2nd 10 in the NFL with the talent invested in this O right now isn't ridiculous.  Joe Burrow in Year 2  had 34TD's and 4,600 yards. Mahomes had over 5,000 and 50 in year 2.  Lamar Jackson had only 3100 but he had 36 passing td's in year 2.   Herbert had 5,000 and 38 year 2.  Derek Carr had just under 4,000 and 32TD's in year 2.  Derek Carr is not a ridiculously high bar for the No. 2 pick in the draft with the talent around him.

Good QB's who don't bust put up good numbers in year 2.  They start showing it in year 2.  Does he need to hit 30TD's and 4,000 yards no, but he should be close if he's good.  The Jets have invested a lot of top picks and FA in the O.  Zach has A plus talent around him at RB, OL and the WR group looks real good.  The TE group isn't all world but it's solid.  This O should move the ball and there will be big plays and TD's in the passing game.

We have traded some good players for draft capital.  We invested it in our O.  We brought in TE and a starting guard in FA.  

If you look at the guys that have been put around Zach this year they are guys who will give him time in the pocket and skill players who can get YAC.  There simply is no excuse for Zach not flashing elite talent and being a top 10 to 15 NFL QB.  That would put him close to 4,000 and 30 if he's healthy for 17 games. 

Lots of young guys struggle because they get drafted on bad teams.  The Jets O with a good QB is an O that should be in the top 10 in a lot of offensive catagories.  If it's not JD hasn't  really drafted or put good FA's in place.  I think he has. 

Again, this is what I’d like to see. I think the primary obstacle is that while the offense has definitely improved talent-wise, we’re still projecting a ton on two second year guys and two rookies to make a huge impact. Jets are likely to be the youngest team in the league again this year, with their second year staff. I’m looking for top half, you’re looking for top 10. We’re not that far apart. Jets seem focused on making things as simple and pressure free for Zach as they possibly can. A lot of running the football and high percentage passes. Adding TEs who can block in the running game and be big targets in the passing game. The potential is real. This is me not getting my hopes up too high. 7-8 wins, middle of the pack Zach, and I’ll feel like the team is headed in the right direction. Especially if they’re relatively healthy and a team no one wants to play down the stretch. Of course I’d like more than that, though. 

[Warfish]

32 minutes ago, slats said:

Like I said, that would put him right in the middle of the pack of QB stats last year. If the Jets are as dedicated to the run this season as I expect them to be, I just don’t expect Zach to get the attempts to have this 4000 yard, 30 TD season people are fantasizing about this season. Those would be top ten numbers. Instead, I expect a lot of game managing with a little hero ball thrown in for good measure. It’s all about Zach progressing, not necessarily getting all the way there in one giant leap. 
 
Do I want better than that? Sure, of course I do. But if the Jets get that from Wilson combined with a top ten rushing attack (which I do think is realistic), we’d probably have ourselves a pleasant little season. All of the alleged hot seats would cool down quite a bit. 

Sounds like you're just not expecting Zach to produce like a real Franchise QB, but more in-line with 2nd tier game manger type QB's.

Make no mistake, teams absolutely CAN win with game managers, but it's interesting to see the level of expectation (for production) fail to meet the level of rhetoric around Zach Wilson.  You very well could be right, but 4,000/30 isn't really that special anymore.

As noted previously, these have been the 2nd year production stats of "Franchise QB's" drafted in recent years.  It sets the "2nd Year Threshold" for players generally considered Franchise QB's by their respective teams (Tua maybe the lone exception, at the time both Goff and Wentz were thought to be Franchise guys).

Joe Burrow Year 2 - 16 Starts, 70.4% Comp Rate. 288.2 Passing YPG.  34-14 TD-INT.

Tua Tags Year 2 - 12 Starts, 67.8% Comp Rate, 204.1 Passing YPG, 16-10 TD-INT.

Justin Herbert Year 2 - 17 Starts, 65.9% Comp Rate, 294.9 Passing YPG, 38-15 TD-INT.

Kyler Murray Year 2 - 16 Starts, 64.4% Comp Rate, 248.2 Passing YPG, 26-12 TD-INT.

Josh Allen Year 2 - 16 Starts, 58.8% Comp Rate, 193.1 Passing YPG, 20-9 TD-INT.

Lamar Jackson Year 2 - 15 Starts, 66.1% Comp Rate, 208.5 Passing YPG, 36-9 TD-INT.

Patrick Mahomes Year 2 - 16 Starts, 66.0% Comp Rate, 318.6 Passing YPG, 50-12 TD-INT.

Deshaun Watson Year 2 - 16 Starts, 68.3% Comp Rate, 260.3 Passing YPG, 26-9 TD-INT.

Jared Goff Year 2 - 15 Starts, 62.1% Comp Rate, 253.6 Passing YPG, 28-7 TD-INT.

Carson Wentz Year 2 - 13 Starts, 60.2% Comp Rate, 253.5 Passing YPG, 33-7 TD-INT.

 

[Warfish]

12 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Im OK with that....  but Mayfield IMO is not that guy.

Probably not, I'd agree.  Mayfield needs to re-prove himself somewhere at a #2 QB and show-out when/if he gets his opportunities.

In some ways, Darnold and Mayfield should really be flipped.  Mayfield deserved the 2nd shot alot more than Sammy did.  But thems the breaks of luck and timing I guess.

[slats]

11 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

7.2 is really ambitious. Even Josh Allen put up 6.8 last year. 

7.2 would be right in the middle of the pack last year, that’s why I picked it. Josh Allen had a breakout year last season, but was still only 16th in passer rating. This is the kind of thing I’m talking about when we’re placing expectations on Zach. Is he gonna jump higher in his second year than Josh Allen did in his third? He won’t have more than 2/3’s of Allen’s 646 passing attempts, that’s for sure. 

[slats]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Sounds like you're just not expecting Zach to produce like a real Franchise QB, but more in-line with 2nd tier game manger type QB's.

Make no mistake, teams absolutely CAN win with game managers, but it's interesting to see the level of expectation (for production) fail to meet the level of rhetoric around Zach Wilson.  You very well could be right, but 4,000/30 isn't really that special anymore.

As noted previously, these have been the 2nd year production stats of "Franchise QB's" drafted in recent years.  It sets the "2nd Year Threshold" for players generally considered Franchise QB's by their respective teams (Tua maybe the lone exception, at the time both Goff and Wentz were thought to be Franchise guys).

Joe Burrow Year 2 - 16 Starts, 70.4% Comp Rate. 288.2 Passing YPG.  34-14 TD-INT.

Tua Tags Year 2 - 12 Starts, 67.8% Comp Rate, 204.1 Passing YPG, 16-10 TD-INT.

Justin Herbert Year 2 - 17 Starts, 65.9% Comp Rate, 294.9 Passing YPG, 38-15 TD-INT.

Kyler Murray Year 2 - 16 Starts, 64.4% Comp Rate, 248.2 Passing YPG, 26-12 TD-INT.

Josh Allen Year 2 - 16 Starts, 58.8% Comp Rate, 193.1 Passing YPG, 20-9 TD-INT.

Lamar Jackson Year 2 - 15 Starts, 66.1% Comp Rate, 208.5 Passing YPG, 36-9 TD-INT.

Patrick Mahomes Year 2 - 16 Starts, 66.0% Comp Rate, 318.6 Passing YPG, 50-12 TD-INT.

Deshaun Watson Year 2 - 16 Starts, 68.3% Comp Rate, 260.3 Passing YPG, 26-9 TD-INT.

Jared Goff Year 2 - 15 Starts, 62.1% Comp Rate, 253.6 Passing YPG, 28-7 TD-INT.

Carson Wentz Year 2 - 13 Starts, 60.2% Comp Rate, 253.5 Passing YPG, 33-7 TD-INT.

 

I already responded to this post when @Biggs made it, lol, but I want to again emphasize that I’m looking at Zach Wilson as part of this very young Jets team. Not what he might do in Cincy’s or KC’s offense, but what I expect him to be asked to do here. And yes, as I flatly stated, I expect a lot of game managing. That doesn’t mean that I project him as a game manager but that I see that as the plan to get him out of the basement and feeling confident and secure. They get him there, the young weapons get another year under their belts, and I think you’re looking at a much more wide open offense in year three. 

[Warfish]

22 minutes ago, slats said:

I already responded to this post when @Biggs made it, lol, but I want to again emphasize that I’m looking at Zach Wilson as part of this very young Jets team. Not what he might do in Cincy’s or KC’s offense, but what I expect him to be asked to do here. And yes, as I flatly stated, I expect a lot of game managing. That doesn’t mean that I project him as a game manager but that I see that as the plan to get him out of the basement and feeling confident and secure. They get him there, the young weapons get another year under their belts, and I think you’re looking at a much more wide open offense in year three. 

Aye, sorry if you felt you had to answer the same Q twice.

So a good Game Manager in 2022 (3,500 or less, less than a 2:1 TD to INT ratio), but then Franchise QB in year three (closer to 4,000+ and 30:10 TD:INT) and beyond. 

Your scenario is realistic, certainly. Basically, you're looking at Zach mirroring a "Sanchez third-year" type of production, 3,474 and 26:18 in a year the Jets went 8-8.  Consensus seems to be we'll be lucky (as a team) to get close to .500 this year.

And 3,500 with a 20+:12- ratio or so isn't so bad, it would be the best season for a Jets QB since ol' Fitzy hit 3,900+ and 30 TD's in 2015.  So it's not like it would be a Geno type season.

Still, I'm going to hold out hope that Zach can be, as soon as is possible, at least the equivalent producer to someone like Kirk Cousins.  A reliable 4,000+, 30 TD+ kinda guy.  If he is that, I think we'll win alot of games with him in his career.

 

[Hex]

On 5/11/2022 at 8:43 AM, Warfish said:

Can you define what qualifies one as a "blind hater"?

Somebody who doesn’t accept the eye test as a viable way to evaluate QBs

[Bowles Movement]

So if Zac was bad and he was the second pick, what do you guys think of the first pick Trevor Lawrence?   Should the Jags cut him this year?

[adb280z]

On 5/11/2022 at 11:27 AM, bitonti said:

I keep coming back to the week 18 vs Buffalo 

Yes everyone was injured. Yes it was windy 

But there's no excuse for an offense on 2021 nfl picking up only 53 net yards in a game 

It’s was the worst offensive output in Jets franchise history 

Think about that 

Worse than any kotite team worse than any Adam gase team. Worse than the expansion Titans in 1962.

The rules have changed so much to protect the offense over time. 

Zach wilson may or may not be be good this year but he has this group of loyal defenders who want to believe, so they do 

It's not really based on facts or evidence

It's based on optimism. And I guess that gets people through the day. 

 

So what do you want to about it?  Should they have drafted another QB? 

Week 18

He was bad, had no help against one of the best teams in the league.

I can't imagine being this pessimistic on a guy drafted 2 overall after just one season.  And I'm not a natural optimist, just look at my avatar.

[rtnelson]

I believe if the WR's and TE's are getting open, Zach will hit them and the offense will look good as long as the OL isn't a complete abomination.

The real question for me about him is if he can lead the team to a victory in those "got to have it" moments.

2-3 minutes in the 4th Qtr down by 4 ball at the 25.  Can he put the team on his back and leave with a W?  We'll see.

[bitonti]

12 hours ago, adb280z said:

So what do you want to about it?  Should they have drafted another QB? 

Week 18

He was bad, had no help against one of the best teams in the league.

I can't imagine being this pessimistic on a guy drafted 2 overall after just one season.  And I'm not a natural optimist, just look at my avatar.

Honest answer? I wouldn't have drafted a qb until the team can support him. 

But since he's here, Qb 1 should be a competition. Like every other position. 

If ZW is terrible, Mike white should play. If the situation is too sh*t, Mike white should play. Not just keep giving the kid unearned reps and hoping he improves. Did Zach improve by getting reamed by Buffalo? I guess we will see 

[nycdan]

On 5/11/2022 at 11:27 AM, bitonti said:

I keep coming back to the week 18 vs Buffalo 

Yes everyone was injured. Yes it was windy 

But there's no excuse for an offense on 2021 nfl picking up only 53 net yards in a game 

It’s was the worst offensive output in Jets franchise history 

 

Yes, it was an awful game by any measure.  But some context from PFF who normally does not blow rainbow smoke up the Jet's backsides:

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-week-18-game-recap-buffalo-bills-27-new-york-jets-10

 

==============

Quarterback

It was an unceremonious end to a disappointing season for Wilson Sunday, as the former second-overall pick completed just seven passes for 87 yards and a touchdown on 20 attempts and 30 dropbacks. The ex-BYU quarterback was sacked eight times and suffered from four dropped passes, bringing his adjusted completion percentage up to a respectable 68.8%. Wilson did lead the team rushing, tallying 24 yards on two scrambles.

Running Backs

As alluded to above, the Jets run game couldn’t get off the ground. Michael Carter led the way in snaps (24) and carries (nine), but he gained just 19 yards, including 24 after contact with three forced missed tackles. Tevin Coleman and Ty Johnson combined for six carries and 5 rushing yards.

Wide Receivers/Tight Ends

With Wilson completing just seven passes, no one in the Jets receiving game stood out. Wide receiver Jeff Smith led the unit in snaps with 26, but he had just one catch for 2 yards. The most productive wideout was Keelan Cole, as the former Jaguar tallied three receptions on three targets for 54 yards and a touchdown on his way to an 80.1 receiving grade.

Offensive Line

New York’s offensive line looked like it was on roller skates for most of the afternoon, credited with four sacks allowed. Tackle Morgan Moses especially struggled, being beaten by his defender five times and allowing two sacks en route to a unit-worst 36 pass-protection grade.

=============

My point is, I believe you can partially offset that game as an indicator that the progress Wilson made at the end of last season wasn't real.  No Berrios.  No Corey Davis.  Crappy OLine play.  4 dropped passes out of 20 attempts.  Sacked 8 times.  That's a lot for a rookie.  All it means to me is we don't know either way what to expect this year, but nobody on either side of this debate should be feeling any level of certainty.

[Warfish]

On 5/11/2022 at 10:24 AM, Darnold's Forehead said:

Holy moly training camp hasn’t even started yet and the pro-Wilson propaganda is already starting.

As it should, in fairness.

We SHOULD feel optimistic about our 2nd year, #2 Overall Pick QB.

We SHOULD have VERY high expectations, Franchise QB-level expectations, for a guy with his potential and selected where he was.

The worst, IMO, are those already hedging their bets, already trying to set very low/diminished expectations for Zach.

Pre-emptive excuse-making for if he fails to live up to his hype.  THAT annoys me more than Zach-hype-men.

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Honest answer? I wouldn't have drafted a qb until the team can support him. 

But since he's here, Qb 1 should be a competition. Like every other position. 

If ZW is terrible, Mike white should play. If the situation is too sh*t, Mike white should play. Not just keep giving the kid unearned reps and hoping he improves. Did Zach improve by getting reamed by Buffalo? I guess we will see 

Generally a good tactic.  DAL did it perfectly back in the 80s, drafting Irvin, then following up with Aikman and finally Smith.  They also drafted two of their starting OLine plus Moose the same year as Aikman.  It obviously worked out well.  In fact, I think they are a very interesting comp.

When you look at it, the Jets tried to do the same.  OL and WR.  Then, when they were in a rare position to draft a QB, they did, and they should have, plus another OL.  Followed that up with another WR, RB, and TE.  You can't always wait for the right time.  If they had waited another year, they would have been looking at a much lesser class.  It actually feels very similar to the model, although the team was less stocked when they started, and they had massive injury problems last year.  

In 1989, Aikman's rookie year, DAL went 1-15.

The following year, with Smith, they went 7-9.

The third year, they went 11-5.  Interestingly enough, Aikman was pretty bad all three of his first seasons.  It wasn't until 1992 that he started to put up numbers.  In all honesty, he was the most mediocre HoF QB ever.  Look at his career stats.  Yet that team won double digit games for five straight years.  

I want to see Zach do much better than Aikman obviously, but he doesn't need to be Aaron Rodgers for the Jets to be successful.  

[adb280z]

On 5/13/2022 at 9:35 AM, bitonti said:

Honest answer? I wouldn't have drafted a qb until the team can support him. 

But since he's here, Qb 1 should be a competition. Like every other position. 

If ZW is terrible, Mike white should play. If the situation is too sh*t, Mike white should play. Not just keep giving the kid unearned reps and hoping he improves. Did Zach improve by getting reamed by Buffalo? I guess we will see 

Right, but he's there and since you seem to be of the belief that he's terrible. So should they have drafted one this year?  I think this offense is good enough in today's NFL if the QB is good.  They have the weapons and the line should be above average.

[Supersonic]

On 5/11/2022 at 7:16 AM, Warfish said:

The "eye test" doesn't lie, but analytics and statistics do. 

Got it. 

Dropped passes don't show up in the QB's statistics, but they do in the "eye test"  

[Jetsfan80]

On 5/12/2022 at 11:59 AM, slats said:

7.2 would be right in the middle of the pack last year, that’s why I picked it. Josh Allen had a breakout year last season, but was still only 16th in passer rating. This is the kind of thing I’m talking about when we’re placing expectations on Zach. Is he gonna jump higher in his second year than Josh Allen did in his third? He won’t have more than 2/3’s of Allen’s 646 passing attempts, that’s for sure. 

All I thought when I read this post was “Maybe I’ll end up correct about Josh Allen in the end after all!”

[Hal N of Provo]

32 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

All I thought when I read this post was “Maybe I’ll end up correct about Josh Allen in the end after all!”

Haha.  When I read that I found myself wondering if we were too kind in his evaluation.  

[Dwight Englewood]

On 5/12/2022 at 5:35 PM, Bowles Movement said:

So if Zac was bad and he was the second pick, what do you guys think of the first pick Trevor Lawrence?   Should the Jags cut him this year?

Did Lawrence have a functional head coach and offensive coordinator last season?