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[JTJet]

3 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

“Nobody expected Becton to go down…” ?????????????????????????????????????

I'm going to go ahead and continue this.. 

???????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Dude it’s all in good fun.  I think you’re a good poster and probably a good guy.  Just joking around on a tough day.  Anyway take care and hopefully the Jets bounce back next week 

Ok, fair enough.  Indeed, lets hope we get a better product on the field.  

[Mogglez]

31 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Both are active deterrents toward winning football games, just for different reasons.

Right, because giving credence to the metrics that lead us to starting a QB who has now gone *checks game logs* 0-10 in all of his starts dating back to 2019 is obviously the way to go.

First I was told by a few here that Joe Flacco was a QB we could win 9-10 games with.

Then Joe Flacco would provide “stability”

The week leading up to the game, all he needed to be for us to be competitive was a game manager, and he couldn’t even accomplish that.

The Jets won 3 games under Wilson last year.  A reason for that was his skill set that I listed above.  His talent won the Titans game and towards the end of the year, he even showed that he could, in fact, at the very least, manage a game, while still keeping his big play potential alive with his legs (Jaguars game), something Flacco, again, could not do, barring a time-machine existing.

The Jets won a game with Mike White last year because he showed the ability to take what was given to him, make the right decision, and let the players around him generate plays.  Even though he dink and dunked his way to doing so, the quickness in which he did so allowed for YAC and points.

Streveler is a wildcard, but after watching todays performance from Joe, I can almost guarantee that he couldn’t be worse.  Then you add his mobility to the equation, and you can probably get a better performance from him.

Until I see a reasonable counter to any of the analysis above, you can’t convince me that Joe isn’t QB4.  You posted Connor Hughes and his podcast all off-season, so I know you like what he has to say, right?  He came out a few weeks ago and stated that Wilson, at this stage, is better than Flacco. Full stop.  No hesitation.

 

[Green Ghost]

2 hours ago, Jets723 said:

To be fair Mike White wasn’t good outside of the Bengal game where they admittedly didn’t show up for that game.  So if they start White that’s fine but unless the oline actually blocks it will be the same 

“To be fair…” #2

[Jets723]

7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Ok, fair enough.  Indeed, lets hope we get a better product on the field.  

Agreed.  I apologize if you think I was attacking you that wasn’t my attention.  Now I do admit the Mike White fans have gone overboard but I have nothing personal against him and I have no issue with him starting.  I’m just more excited with Wilson especially with all the weapons he now has

[SickJetFan]

1 hour ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Don Coryell couldn’t “game plan” this offense effectively with Flacco starting.  I just learned he had the same surgery Peyton Manning had on his neck, coupled with the total lack of mobility, the guy shouldn’t even be out there, much less Starting.

He most certainly could have.  You have a slow, stiff QB, well you let him play to his strength, and give him 4/5 options to throw to as much as possible.  Fant getting beating every play, ok give the guy some help with a TE or RB.  I didnt see any of that going on but to be honest my eyes were burning every time I tried to watch them play they suck so bad.  The whole offense was slow motion predictable, not just Flacco, but I agree Flacco gotta go.

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Agreed.  I apologize if you think I was attacking you that wasn’t my attention.  Now I do admit the Mike White fans have gone overboard but I have nothing personal against him and I have no issue with him starting.  I’m just more excited with Wilson especially with all the weapons he now has

No harm, no foul.  And I too am more excited to see Wilson play, even if I ultimately think he's a repeat of Sam Darnold.

Unlike Sam, Wilson has has a chance to prove me wrong.  Something I'd desperately love to see.

[T0mShane]

9 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Right, because giving credence to the metrics that lead us to starting a QB who has now gone *checks game logs* 0-10 in all of his starts dating back to 2019 is obviously the way to go.

First I was told by a few here that Joe Flacco was a QB we could win 9-10 games with.

Then Joe Flacco would provide “stability”

The week leading up to the game, all he needed to be for us to be competitive was a game manager, and he couldn’t even accomplish that.

The Jets won 3 games under Wilson last year.  A reason for that was his skill set that I listed above.  His talent won the Titans game and towards the end of the year, he even showed that he could, in fact, at the very least, manage a game, while still keeping his big play potential alive with his legs (Jaguars game), something Flacco, again, could not do, barring a time-machine existing.

The Jets won a game with Mike White last year because he showed the ability to take what was given to him, make the right decision, and let the players around him generate plays.  Even though he dink and dunked his way to doing so, the quickness in which he did so allowed for YAC and points.

Streveler is a wildcard, but after watching todays performance from Joe, I can almost guarantee that he couldn’t be worse.  Then you add his mobility to the equation, and you can probably get a better performance from him.

Until I see a reasonable counter to any of the analysis above, you can’t convince me that Joe isn’t QB4.  You posted Connor Hughes and his podcast all season, so I know you like what he has to say, right?  He came out a few weeks ago and stated that Wilson, at this stage, is better than Flacco. Full stop.  No hesitation.

 

I think it’s a positive step that we’re now arguing whether Zach is the worst or merely second-worst QB on the roster. I would suggest that pointing out that Flacco is 0-10 in his last ten starts is telling, but I’d also suggest that Zach Wilson being the statistically worse QB in football last season is equally damning. He sucked last year, was abysmal in the brief window we saw him this year, and add on top of it that he can’t stay healthy, so at least Flacco has that going for him.

[Bleedin Green]

The issue with many of these debates is how much confirmation bias plays into them.

Flacco was outright putrid no doubt, but using him as the scapegoat for continued incompetence of the OL is simply trying to fit a narrative.  Many would instead be exonerating Wilson of blame if he saw the same exact circumstances but instead bailed out of the pocket leading to wild throws for picks, fumbles, or self-injuries in his own blowout loss.

Similarly, Saleh has done nothing to prove himself at his own job, but that does not put him at fault for the failures by a GM who's had 4 years and shown zero measurable improvement, regardless of undeserved praise previously given to him.  Meanwhile, for as many years/GMs as we've heard that story before, we still never manage to see the future success of a Jets' failure that would eventually come if it were only ever coaching.  It's become a copy and paste job of the Bowles/Maccagnan story at this point.

The unfortunate truth that many don't want to accept is that the list of problems is a very long one, and the failures of one does nothing to change those of countless others.  Unless this turns out to be a total outlier for the season, which I'm sure we'd all be happy to see, there's a decent chance we're on the verge of the next housecleaning at season's end.

[GATA]

11 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Right, because giving credence to the metrics that lead us to starting a QB who has now gone *checks game logs* 0-10 in all of his starts dating back to 2019 is obviously the way to go.

First I was told by a few here that Joe Flacco was a QB we could win 9-10 games with.

Then Joe Flacco would provide “stability”

The week leading up to the game, all he needed to be for us to be competitive was a game manager, and he couldn’t even accomplish that.

The Jets won 3 games under Wilson last year.  A reason for that was his skill set that I listed above.  His talent won the Titans game and towards the end of the year, he even showed that he could, in fact, at the very least, manage a game, while still keeping his big play potential alive with his legs (Jaguars game), something Flacco, again, could not do, barring a time-machine existing.

The Jets won a game with Mike White last year because he showed the ability to take what was given to him, make the right decision, and let the players around him generate plays.  Even though he dink and dunked his way to doing so, the quickness in which he did so allowed for YAC and points.

Streveler is a wildcard, but after watching todays performance from Joe, I can almost guarantee that he couldn’t be worse.  Then you add his mobility to the equation, and you can probably get a better performance from him.

Until I see a reasonable counter to any of the analysis above, you can’t convince me that Joe isn’t QB4.  You posted Connor Hughes and his podcast all season, so I know you like what he has to say, right?  He came out a few weeks ago and stated that Wilson, at this stage, is better than Flacco. Full stop.  No hesitation.

 

Lol Wilson comes back and it’s still a dumpster fire I can’t wait to see the excuses 

[Jets723]

7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

No harm, no foul.  And I too am more excited to see Wilson play, even if I ultimately think he's a repeat of Sam Darnold.

Unlike Sam, Wilson has has a chance to prove me wrong.  Something I'd desperately love to see.

 

7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

No harm, no foul.  And I too am more excited to see Wilson play, even if I ultimately think he's a repeat of Sam Darnold.

Unlike Sam, Wilson has has a chance to prove me wrong.  Something I'd desperately love to see.

Well I’m hoping for the best.  

[Green Ghost]

Daboll showing big balls in Tennessee.

[Mogglez]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think it’s a positive step that we’re now arguing whether Zach is the worst or merely second-worst QB on the roster. I would suggest that pointing out that Flacco is 0-10 in his last ten starts is telling, but I’d also suggest that Zach Wilson being the statistically worse QB in football last season is equally damning. He sucked last year, was abysmal in the brief window we saw him this year, and add on top of it that he can’t stay healthy, so at least Flacco has that going for him.

I will never sit here and tell anyone that my belief in Wilson doesn’t boil down to “hope.”  What I will say is that, at this stage, I don’t believe that Flacco is better than any of the young guys.  There are a million other dynamics at play when it comes to playing those guys, but at it’s core, the skill sets they possess make them better options to actually win a game, IMHO.  Does that make any of them long-term franchise QBs yet?  No.  That’s never been my argument here.  My argument is what gives you the best chance to win a game.

9 minutes ago, GATA said:

Lol Wilson comes back and it’s still a dumpster fire I can’t wait to see the excuses 

If he does and it is, you won’t see them from me.

[JetsYanks13]

Daboll showing big balls in Tennessee.

I hate the Giants, but give Daboll a bunch of credit, he’s playing to win!


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Green Ghost]

37 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

 

Can’t say I blame you… 

[Green Ghost]

10 minutes ago, JetsYanks13 said:

I hate the Giants, but give Daboll a bunch of credit, he’s playing to win!


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Wow that was a great win for them.

Looks like they hired the right people to turn things over there. Must be nice…. ?

Last thing we need to see around here though

[talisaynon]

3 hours ago, GreenFish said:

Did you watch the game? Fields did not play well at all. His success came on 2 broken plays. Good for him for hitting those.

Lance looked ok though. Just needs to get more consistent. I think he'll be a good QB.

You mean him beating the #1 defense in the league? If your little qb did that youd be jerkin him off all over this forum

[jgb]

Just now, talisaynon said:

You mean him beating the #1 defense in the league? If your little qb did that youd be jerkin him off over this forum

He already is

[talisaynon]

2 hours ago, GandWFan said:

Hmmm... Goobers.

Almost sounds racist.  Na, can't be.

 

 

Lol snowflake

 

 

[GandWFan]

22 minutes ago, talisaynon said:

 

 

Lol snowflake

 

 

Ok, my bad.  Apologies.

[xJayce]

7 hours ago, oatmeal said:

Go that way TF you responding for???

 

BLOCK ME

I'm really curious.

You seem completely miserable and a total hater. Every time time I see one of your posts show up, it's nothing but garbled anger and borders on incoherency. Nothing constructive, nothing thought provoking, no analysis, simply the same tired, rehashed "this is a clown org, everyone sucks" every time.

Are you in pain? Do you feel some warmth in your cold heart by making these "told you so" proclamations? Do you find enjoyment in misery? Are you a B level troll looking to kick a fan base when their down?

There's always help out there friend. I hope you find what you're looking for...

[oatmeal]

21 minutes ago, xJayce said:

I'm really curious.

You seem completely miserable and a total hater. Every time time I see one of your posts show up, it's nothing but garbled anger and borders on incoherency. Nothing constructive, nothing thought provoking, no analysis, simply the same tired, rehashed "this is a clown org, everyone sucks" every time.

Are you in pain? Do you feel some warmth in your cold heart by making these "told you so" proclamations? Do you find enjoyment in misery? Are you a B level troll looking to kick a fan base when their down?

There's always help out there friend. I hope you find what you're looking for...

Block me if you don’t like my post

[xJayce]

6 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Block me if you don’t like my post

Your response was about as good as one of Mann's punts today...

Best of luck to you.

[oatmeal]

1 minute ago, xJayce said:

Your response was about as good as one of Mann's punts today...

Best of luck to you.

Likewise 

[Maxman]

Just stopping in to say over 2,500 posts in the game thread and close to 5,000 on they day.

Jets football is here.

[Bleedin Green]

44 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Just stopping in to say over 2,500 posts in the game thread and close to 5,000 on they day.

Jets football is here.

Misery is the true secret to JN's success.

Being happy and agreeable is for suckers.

[92ShaunEllis92]

55 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Just stopping in to say over 2,500 posts in the game thread and close to 5,000 on they day.

Jets football is here.

Lol!

how many of those posts are actually positive regarding the Jets compared to the negative ones claiming hatred and misery? You know……to see how strong the Saleh “Good Vibes Only” Meter reader is showing. Lol

[Jetsfan80]

5 hours ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

Lol!

how many of those posts are actually positive regarding the Jets compared to the negative ones claiming hatred and misery? You know……to see how strong the Saleh “Good Vibes Only” Meter reader is showing. Lol

Posts are posts.  Doesn’t matter how they get there.  The Howard Stern method.  People tuned in to see what would happen next, for better or worse.  And train wrecks draw lots of attention.  

[Flightattendant]

10 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

The issue with many of these debates is how much confirmation bias plays into them.

Flacco was outright putrid no doubt, but using him as the scapegoat for continued incompetence of the OL is simply trying to fit a narrative.  Many would instead be exonerating Wilson of blame if he saw the same exact circumstances but instead bailed out of the pocket leading to wild throws for picks, fumbles, or self-injuries in his own blowout loss.

Similarly, Saleh has done nothing to prove himself at his own job, but that does not put him at fault for the failures by a GM who's had 4 years and shown zero measurable improvement, regardless of undeserved praise previously given to him.  Meanwhile, for as many years/GMs as we've heard that story before, we still never manage to see the future success of a Jets' failure that would eventually come if it were only ever coaching.  It's become a copy and paste job of the Bowles/Maccagnan story at this point.

The unfortunate truth that many don't want to accept is that the list of problems is a very long one, and the failures of one does nothing to change those of countless others.  Unless this turns out to be a total outlier for the season, which I'm sure we'd all be happy to see, there's a decent chance we're on the verge of the next housecleaning at season's end.

At this point the house cleanings aren't going to change until ownership is changed. 

[neckdemon]

12 hours ago, Warfish said:

Well, if you're right, and it doesn't matter, then I start the younger QB.

Maybe it is pointless, as you think, but I'll be honest, I have more personal interest in watching a White-led game than a Flacco-led game, at least until Zach finally comes back, because I have more interest in watching a Zach-led game than a White-led game.

i agree start white or even streveler. doesn't matter, this team will be lucky to win 3 games max

[Biggs]

11 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I think it’s a positive step that we’re now arguing whether Zach is the worst or merely second-worst QB on the roster. I would suggest that pointing out that Flacco is 0-10 in his last ten starts is telling, but I’d also suggest that Zach Wilson being the statistically worse QB in football last season is equally damning. He sucked last year, was abysmal in the brief window we saw him this year, and add on top of it that he can’t stay healthy, so at least Flacco has that going for him.

Go back and watch Flacco in Denver.  It was embarrassingly bad.  He also gives off a vibe that says the grim reaper is in the building.  

Zach is a concern but he could suck and still wouldn’t drain the O of juice the way Flacco does.  Dracula would be a better backup.

Flacco is probably a great guy but on the football field he’s walking death.

[Augustiniak]

25 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Go back and watch Flacco in Denver.  It was embarrassingly bad.  He also gives off a vibe that says the grim reaper is in the building.  

Zach is a concern but he could suck and still wouldn’t drain the O of juice the way Flacco does.  Dracula would be a better backup.

Flacco is probably a great guy but on the football field he’s walking death.

Main takeaways from yesterday are 1) the jets draft is good, 2) Flacco sucks and is not a fit in this offense, and 3) the jets coaches do not think they’re being graded on W/L basis until wilson returns.  

[Biggs]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Main takeaways from yesterday are 1) the jets draft is good, 2) Flacco sucks and is not a fit in this offense, and 3) the jets coaches do not think they’re being graded on W/L basis until wilson returns.  

Agreed but I think it's a terrible way to build a "winning" culture.  It sends a message to the entire team.  It also puts the team in danger of being all in on Zach which again is a terrible way to build a winning culture.   Zach may not be ready or he simply may not be willing to put himself in jeopardy at his own personal expense.   Hard to know the truth.   Flacco can't be trotted out again.  They have to go with White or Steveler until Zach is ready.  

Flacco can't seem to run the O that Lefleur wants to run.  Seems really strange that he's even on the team. 

[Augustiniak]

6 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Agreed but I think it's a terrible way to build a "winning" culture.  It sends a message to the entire team.  It also puts the team in danger of being all in on Zach which again is a terrible way to build a winning culture.   Zach may not be ready or he simply may not be willing to put himself in jeopardy at his own personal expense.   Hard to know the truth.   Flacco can't be trotted out again.  They have to go with White or Steveler until Zach is ready.  

Flacco can't seem to run the O that Lefleur wants to run.  Seems really strange that he's even on the team. 

Most everything saleh does is about marketing himself and perception, but to be fair this organization desperately needed a culture change when gase left (and mccagnan), not to mention a major talent infusion.  That said, too many coaches put too much stock in experience, believing that Flacco will make better decisions than mike white or strevelar in a regular season game.  Also you run into the whole ‘mentor’ thing, where unless you are tannehill you do and say the right things and continue to make money.  Finally, there’s a fear from saleh that if he plays the young inexperienced qb over Flacco, it’s a signal to the team that they’re giving up and he’ll ‘lose the locker room’.  So what we get is an inferior qb who cannot avoid any rush, who is not equipped to play in this offense.  Now whether wilson is the guy or not, we still don’t know, and while he’s destined to be better than last year, that’s not saying much now.  But we do know that they built the offense around his skills, none of which Flacco has.

[JetBlue]

23 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Yup.  I’m not killing anyone today other than Flacco, Fant, and Mann.

Don't leave out our Genius OC and the other turnstiles on the OL