Kind of amazing how quickly this place turned on Saleh (merged)

[southparkcpa]

1 hour ago, Trotter said:

I like Saleh - wanted him during the search and was thrilled when he signed on.  Not me, I thought he was a screamer, like REX.

I want him to succeed. Me too.

 

Someone in the Jets has to be smart enough to tell him this. It can't be that a bunch of knuckleheads on a Jet board see this but the org does not.    

I fully believe that guys like Daboll, Payton etc... would never come to the Jets. They would simply wait out a better opportunity.

So we are stuck with the parade of coordinators who would come here....  yes men. 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

Your just taking a huge leap of faith there. The CBA dictates how intense practices can be not just for Jets but for all teams . From clips I saw a lot of teams looked rusty this weekend.  I guess the coaches in Indy, Ten, NE, Den , Cin, Rams , LV should all be on the hot seat now right ? 

The good news is they play again this Sunday against a backup QB. If there’s a slogan the Jets could adopt, how about “no excuses”? I think we could all get behind that rallying cry.

[TuscanyTile2]

5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The good news is they play again this Sunday against a backup QB. If there’s a slogan the Jets could adopt, how about “no excuses”? I think we could all get behind that rallying cry.

It should be "Talk ain't cheap!"

Or maybe "All receipts.  No wins!"

[dbatesman]

One thing that bothers me is the talent. Douglas has made his share of mistakes, but this team has seven players who were drafted in the 1st or 2nd in the last two years. With the possible (and glaring) exception of Zach, they all look like useful NFL players, at minimum. To add that much talent and come out Sunday looking like an Adam Gase team is tough to stomach.

And as everyone has pointed out, Positive Vibes Only really grates after a while. I don’t need my coach to be Bear Bryant, but when the same mistakes keep getting made and the only answer is “I’m proud of our effort,” it starts to feel like there’s no accountability—like we’re in a permanent rebuild, so it’s ok if we don’t win this week, because eventually the wins will just magically appear of their own accord. Just getting a really bad Peter Principle feeling about the guy.

[Bugg]

25 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

They threw the ball 59 times Sunday. Damn I must have been asleep at the game because based on your statement that would mean 59 possessions. The key issue was 2-14 on 3rd downs , you'll almost never win with a stat like that. We all know Flacco isn't the answer but the hope was he could manage a win or two before Wilson came back , he unfortunately he looked like a 37 year old rookie on Sunday aided and abetted by a OLine that was under siege by the Ravens  D who were basically challenging Flacco to throw. 

When the game was long since noncompetitive and they had no choice but to throw every down. Function of last 20 minutes being garbage time rather than any plan. 

[Doggin94it]

10 hours ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Is it a reflection of the times we live in? 

The team ended the year relatively strong. Playing good competitive games. You were in love with LaFleurs play calling and the main question was Wilson- was he holding the offense back? The other question was the Defense, could Saleh actually put together a good D? 

Well, after a universally praised off season it seems like most of this place is ready to fire Saleh after one game. A game were the defense answered the bell and looked fantastic.

The offense was abysmal, but didn’t you all love LeFleur last year? This surely is an aberration right? I mean Wilson was holding this offense back and we only added a ton talent.

Isnt the rational reaction to week 1 to be happy that the defense appears to be legit and assume that the offense will find its way since it proved last year to be competent, or at least coached competently by LeFleur (according to you) 

The problem is Saleh has proven nothing thus far. The team came out ready to play against Baltimore, so that's an improvement. But Saleh has shown nothing in a year-plus that suggests he's great at the whole "head coaching" thing - not as a motivator, not as a scheme-designer, not as a CEO - and that's a problem. Doesn't mean he can't be great at it, just means he hasn't put any evidence on paper yet. I'd like to see him with the full offense at his disposal, but if the team looks this bad even after Wilson gets back, that's a huge problem

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The good news is they play again this Sunday against a backup QB. If there’s a slogan the Jets could adopt, how about “no excuses”? I think we could all get behind that rallying cry.

Not doing it for me. Maybe throw in an all y'all.

[the Claw]

10 hours ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Is it a reflection of the times we live in? 

The team ended the year relatively strong. Playing good competitive games. You were in love with LaFleurs play calling and the main question was Wilson- was he holding the offense back? The other question was the Defense, could Saleh actually put together a good D? 

Well, after a universally praised off season it seems like most of this place is ready to fire Saleh after one game. A game were the defense answered the bell and looked fantastic.

The offense was abysmal, but didn’t you all love LeFleur last year? This surely is an aberration right? I mean Wilson was holding this offense back and we only added a ton talent.

Isnt the rational reaction to week 1 to be happy that the defense appears to be legit and assume that the offense will find its way since it proved last year to be competent, or at least coached competently by LeFleur (according to you) 

It’s the usual suspects, man. Go back and read through the game thread. It’s like being inside the head of a lunatic. But that’s what our modern version of media does to us. There are guys on this site that really like Benigno, or the other scrub beat writers and listen to their podcasts and radio shows. They get their opinions blasted back at them through a prism of outrage and dramatics and they feel it necessary to reflect that or 1-up it. There’s tons of psychology as to why this happens. Sometimes guys think that being the loudest critic means you care the most. Humans are weird. All in all, though, it’s social media, it’s all about the “likes.” You’ve come to wrong place for objectivity. 

[Bugg]

10 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

I fully believe that guys like Daboll, Payton etc... would never come to the Jets. They would simply wait out a better opportunity.

So we are stuck with the parade of coordinators who would come here....  yes men. 

Think if the check is big enough, they would be here, which may be another issue with ownership. There are only 32 of these jobs. But also recall Bellichick and Parcells running for the exits. Or Mangini getting fired despite being told he would not be fired. These guys all talk, and the reputation of our ownership is really bad. So we get stuck with guys who have few other options. And plus it's always a complex  Rube Goldberg hiring process rather than a sensible way of doing things. 

[Augustiniak]

5 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

One thing that bothers me is the talent. Douglas has made his share of mistakes, but this team has seven players who were drafted in the 1st or 2nd in the last two years. With the possible (and glaring) exception of Zach, they all look like useful NFL players, at minimum. To add that much talent and come out Sunday looking like an Adam Gase team is tough to stomach.

And as everyone has pointed out, Positive Vibes Only really grates after a while. I don’t need my coach to be Bear Bryant, but when the same mistakes keep getting made and the only answer is “I’m proud of our effort,” it starts to feel like there’s no accountability—like we’re in a permanent rebuild, so it’s ok if we don’t win this week, because eventually the wins will just magically appear of their own accord. Just getting a really bad Peter Principle feeling about the guy.

It’s obvious to the long time jet fan that this team does not suck from a pure talent perspective.  Of course it hurts to have 2 1st rounders out.  But more than anything the ravens game just goes to show you that the HC/QB combo usually decides games.  Saleh’s decision to start flacco, to stick with him the entire game, and to not change the game plan at all mattered more than anything else that game. And it appears we’re in for more of the same vs the browns as he prepares to double down on his flawed philosophy as a blackjack player with a 9 showing who is doubling down while the dealer is showing a 10.

[freestater]

9 hours ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

2nd best slogan generator in NYJ history 

The main difference of course, is the winning. 

[Bugg]

11 minutes ago, the Claw said:

It’s the usual suspects, man. Go back and read through the game thread. It’s like being inside the head of a lunatic. But that’s what our modern version of media does to us. There are guys on this site that really like Benigno, or the other scrub beat writers and listen to their podcasts and radio shows. They get their opinions blasted back at them through a prism of outrage and dramatics and they feel it necessary to reflect that or 1-up it. There’s tons of psychology as to why this happens. Sometimes guys think that being the loudest critic means you care the most. Humans are weird. All in all, though, it’s social media, it’s all about the “likes.” You’ve come to wrong place for objectivity. 

It's well past outrage with most people here. It's bemused indifference crossed with a sense that it will never get better. And it's approaching apathy. The first half Sunday was the absolute worst thing any entertainment could be; BORING.

And that is about offense. Johnsons have hired coach after coach that , despite passing and scoring at record levels every year, labor under the delusion they're winning NFL games 13-10 every week. It's not gonna get it done. The defense was really okay, but even the best of defenses,it will fail several times every games. That's the rules and how the NFL works in 2022. Example; Ravens' TD the zone/Sauce mistake. You aren't holding teams to 10 points week in week out even under the best of circumstances. But that's the guys who end up taking the job here think going on decades. 

Further, we all like being here. But if you really think waht we say here impacts things, you could not be more wrong. Whenn this team has been good, the MBs were positive too.

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

They gave up 1 TD on a short field where the defender had perfect coverage. If you don’t think the defense was outstanding  you are not being objective. 

I've been watching NFL football for 60 plus years.  I know what outstanding defense is.  The D was good in the first half.  The Ravens put up 2 TD's in the 3rd Quarter.  

Dallas scored 3 points and NE scored 7 points in Sunday's game.   There's a difference between improved and outstanding.   The D has much better players than last year.  They should be much better and they were.  They still had a blown coverage in a close game for a TD.  That's not close to outstanding D.  

You're not objective.  You have low expectations.  Good D is objective.  Outstanding is hyperbole.

[CanadienJetsFan]

29 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If Saleh fails, you can go back to him letting Becton and Mims sleepwalk through his first year without curb-stomping either of them as the canary in the coalmine. Other players see it happen and it hurts the locker room. The longer Saleh is here, the more you’ll see younger players whither on the vine. 

That’s the funniest thing you’ve said in a long, long, time.

You have no possible way of knowing what players think of Saleh.

[southparkcpa]

7 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Think if the check is big enough, they would be here, which may be another issue with ownership. There are only 32 of these jobs. But also recall Bellichick and Parcells running for the exits. Or Mangini getting fired despite being told he would not be fired. These guys all talk, and the reputation of our ownership is really bad. So we get stuck with guys who have few other options. And plus it's always a complex  Rube Goldberg hiring process rather than a sensible way of doing things. 

I agree BUT most of these guys already have decent money saved.  We have 3 former NFL players at my golf club and they all stated the Jets have a bad rep.  So it is .. end up like Gase , in his words "rich as fukk" but almost unhireable again or wait it out.   

[56mehl56]

12 minutes ago, Bugg said:

When the game was long since noncompetitive and they had no choice but to throw every down. Function of last 20 minutes being agrbage time rather than any plan. 

I was at the game so its hard to recall the actual play distribution. I looked at the drive charts for the 1st half. 15 runs, 24 pass attempts including 2 sacks. My frustration was possibly not throwing enough on 1st down but to my surprise even that broke down to 4 passes vs 3 runs in 7 1st half possessions. So I'll stick by my point that 3rd down conversions or lack thereof were key.  

[Matt39]

15 minutes ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

Not doing it for me. Maybe throw in an all y'all.

For you? Sure.

[Biggs]

14 minutes ago, the Claw said:

It’s the usual suspects, man. Go back and read through the game thread. It’s like being inside the head of a lunatic. But that’s what our modern version of media does to us. There are guys on this site that really like Benigno, or the other scrub beat writers and listen to their podcasts and radio shows. They get their opinions blasted back at them through a prism of outrage and dramatics and they feel it necessary to reflect that or 1-up it. There’s tons of psychology as to why this happens. Sometimes guys think that being the loudest critic means you care the most. Humans are weird. All in all, though, it’s social media, it’s all about the “likes.” You’ve come to wrong place for objectivity. 

Who's outraged?  Why the hyperbole.  Why not debate the actual details and results.  

[xJayce]

10 hours ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Is it a reflection of the times we live in? 

The team ended the year relatively strong. Playing good competitive games. You were in love with LaFleurs play calling and the main question was Wilson- was he holding the offense back? The other question was the Defense, could Saleh actually put together a good D? 

Well, after a universally praised off season it seems like most of this place is ready to fire Saleh after one game. A game were the defense answered the bell and looked fantastic.

The offense was abysmal, but didn’t you all love LeFleur last year? This surely is an aberration right? I mean Wilson was holding this offense back and we only added a ton talent.

Isnt the rational reaction to week 1 to be happy that the defense appears to be legit and assume that the offense will find its way since it proved last year to be competent, or at least coached competently by LeFleur (according to you) 

There's a honeymoon period for all new CS / GMs, given them a chance to do their thing. That's pretty much over. This is a very emotional reaction due to the level of ineptness from the offense, and how this translates overall to "more of the same" that we've seen for so long now.

I think there may be an issue in regards to expectations. Vegas always had this team at 5.5 wins, but we were seeing people post: "What happens if Flacco goes 3-0 while Zack is out?!". That was never going to happen, though people were expecting at least a decent showing.

[Jet Life]

I turned on him (and Ulbrich) last year when the defense gave up 45 a game for a month straight. I have been a huge Douglas guy but after seeing the OL perform I am actually starting to turn on him now and was left more impressed with Saleh and the defensive side of the ball. Still don’t think this regime survives though and house will be cleaned this offseason 

[Bugg]

1 minute ago, Biggs said:

I've been watching NFL football for 60 plus years.  I know what outstanding defense is.  The D was good in the first half.  The Ravens put up 2 TD's in the 3rd Quarter.  

Dallas scored 3 points and NE scored 7 points in Sunday's game.   There's a difference between improved and outstanding.   The D has much better players than last year.  They should be much better and they were.  They still had a blown coverage in a close game for a TD.  That's not close to outstanding D.  

You're not objective.  You have low expectations.  Good D is objective.  Outstanding is hyperbole.

Hard to get a handle on a defense that was left out to melt by an offense that does so little when the game might ahve been winnable. There is talent there. And before anyone babbles about "time of possession" Saleh and the offense did their damnedest to make it look good in extended garbage time.

[football guy]

Saleh brought it on himself. He's starting to let his emotions show and that's a no-no for a HC in New York. I hate the media, but I can also state that Saleh is atrocious at handling the press corps. He often tries to give nothing but instead gives too many lies and often tries to sugarcoat things. It's frustrating as a fan and I'm sure for the media as well, so he becomes an easy target. 

Instead of going out of your way to tell everyone you're collecting receipts, collect them silently and then shove them down everyone's throats after you win. 

[Dcat]

It will be interesting to watch all you Saleh truthers deal with his awfulness as it progresses.  I hope I'm wrong and you're all correct,  but all indicators point to the opposite at this point.  I can't find a single thing, not one, in the last 18 months that event suggests a hint that Saleh knows what he's doing and can be successful. Not one damned thing.

[Dcat]

14 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

It’s obvious to the long time jet fan that this team does not suck from a pure talent perspective.  Of course it hurts to have 2 1st rounders out.  But more than anything the ravens game just goes to show you that the HC/QB combo usually decides games.  Saleh’s decision to start flacco, to stick with him the entire game, and to not change the game plan at all mattered more than anything else that game. And it appears we’re in for more of the same vs the browns as he prepares to double down on his flawed philosophy as a blackjack player with a 9 showing who is doubling down while the dealer is showing a 10.

Spot on.  Good post.

[56mehl56]

6 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I've been watching NFL football for 60 plus years.  I know what outstanding defense is.  The D was good in the first half.  The Ravens put up 2 TD's in the 3rd Quarter.  

Dallas scored 3 points and NE scored 7 points in Sunday's game.   There's a difference between improved and outstanding.   The D has much better players than last year.  They should be much better and they were.  They still had a blown coverage in a close game for a TD.  That's not close to outstanding D.  

You're not objective.  You have low expectations.  Good D is objective.  Outstanding is hyperbole.

Would you agree though in today's NFL, if you hold an opponent to 24 points you have a decent shot to win . The problem is the D has no leeway for error with a non performing offense. 

[Bugg]

2 minutes ago, Dcat said:

It will be interesting to watch all you Saleh truthers deal with his awfulness as it progresses.  I hope I'm wrong and you're all correct,  but all indicators point to the opposite at this point.  I can't find a single thing, not one, in the last 18 months that event suggests a hint that Saleh knows what he's doing and can be successful. Not one damned thing.

Don't understand how they keep hiring guys who don't appear to understand how improtant passing and scoring points are. 

[56mehl56]

7 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Hard to get a handle on a defense that was left out to melt by an offense that does so little when the game might ahve been winnable. There is talent there. And before anyone babbles about "time of possession" Saleh and the offense did their damnedest to make it look good in extended garbage time.

7 offensive possessions in the 1st half - 3 points , this game was definitely on the offense. 

[Biggs]

35 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

So tell me how to coach a kicker not to miss a FG or a punter not to shank a punt. It happens to all of them at times even the HOF type kickers. Its not like the special teams allowed 50 yard returns , missed blocks, tackles etc.. 

In case you missed it the Kicker was drafted by this GM and the Saleh who had a very reliable kicker threw him to the curb for Zuerlein who the Cowboys cut for sucking last year.

How many FG's did Peneiro miss for us last year.  Rhetorical the answer is none.  He was 1 for 1 with Carolina last week who picked him up. 

[56mehl56]

8 minutes ago, football guy said:

Saleh brought it on himself. He's starting to let his emotions show and that's a no-no for a HC in New York. I hate the media, but I can also state that Saleh is atrocious at handling the press corps. He often tries to give nothing but instead gives too many lies and often tries to sugarcoat things. It's frustrating as a fan and I'm sure for the media as well, so he becomes an easy target. 

Instead of going out of your way to tell everyone you're collecting receipts, collect them silently and then shove them down everyone's throats after you win. 

But as a fan , there's an easy remedy for that - don't listen. 

[Dcat]

2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

In case you missed it the Kicker was drafted by this GM and the Saleh who had a very reliable kicker threw him to the curb for Zuerlein who the Cowboys cut for sucking last year.

How many FG's did Peneiro miss for us last year.  Rhetorical the answer is none.  He was 1 for 1 with Carolina last week who picked him up. 

Zeurlein was another horrible hire.  He was terrible on the Cowboys... in fact, he lost the cowboys more than a game or two.  The old days of "Greg the leg" were long gone by the time the Joe Douglas foolishly signed him.  That's some bad GM'ing right there.

[56mehl56]

8 minutes ago, Dcat said:

It will be interesting to watch all you Saleh truthers deal with his awfulness as it progresses.  I hope I'm wrong and you're all correct,  but all indicators point to the opposite at this point.  I can't find a single thing, not one, in the last 18 months that event suggests a hint that Saleh knows what he's doing and can be successful. Not one damned thing.

A microcosm of society - your either a truther of hater , you support the coach or hate the coach . Why does everything need to be split in battle lines . 

[#27TheDominator]

16 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

I agree BUT most of these guys already have decent money saved.  We have 3 former NFL players at my golf club and they all stated the Jets have a bad rep.  So it is .. end up like Gase , in his words "rich as fukk" but almost unhireable again or wait it out.   

Wasn't that in the words of Manish Mehta from his burner account?

[Biggs]

11 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Hard to get a handle on a defense that was left out to melt by an offense that does so little when the game might ahve been winnable. There is talent there. And before anyone babbles about "time of possession" Saleh and the offense did their damnedest to make it look good in extended garbage time.

The Jets D were not on the field a long time.  The Ravens weren't driving the ball with any consistency.  They didn't run a lot of plays to score.  They made big plays on a couple of drives after making adjustments at halftime.  The Jets special teams gave them a short field and the hit quickly.    

The Jets O did nothing but this wasn't the typical case where the D was left on the field for a long time.   They Ravens weren't having long drives coupled with the Jets giving the ball up quick.  They both weren't moving the ball.  They got the big plays on our D and we abandoned the run way to soon.  

[Dcat]

Just now, 56mehl56 said:

A microcosm of society - your either a truther of hater , you support the coach or hate the coach . Why does everything need to be split in battle lines . 

Agreed.  But over the past several weeks, I've lost any confidence I might have had in Saleh.  In fact, all of his LYING and his not-so-veiled threats against the loyal fans (for whom Saleh has ZERO respect) have dissolved any fondness or confidence I might have had in him, which wasn't that much.

[SuicidalSince98]

16 minutes ago, xJayce said:

There's a honeymoon period for all new CS / GMs, given them a chance to do their thing. That's pretty much over. This is a very emotional reaction due to the level of ineptness from the offense, and how this translates overall to "more of the same" that we've seen for so long now.

I think there may be an issue in regards to expectations. Vegas always had this team at 5.5 wins, but we were seeing people post: "What happens if Flacco goes 3-0 while Zack is out?!". That was never going to happen, though people were expecting at least a decent showing.

“More of the same” is interesting to me. It thought you were happy with lefleur last year?