Lafleur has NOT been fired!! (merged title references unsubstantiated claim. please refrain from hilarious parody threads)

[K_O_Brien]

36 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

That's fine, and fair. I could take or leave LaFleur like I said in my original post. But the biggest issue was the QB in my opinion. The offense looked better when Mike White was playing QB. I think that says a lot about what the number 1 issue.

White didn't throw a touchdown in his last three starts. 

[football guy]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Then that’s a bullsh*t position. Kubiak on the staff working under Lefleur would be an obvious joke. He’s been a HC and won Super Bowls as an OC. Him coming on to be a part time babysitter isn’t fooling anyone.

LaFleur would probably answer to Kubiak unofficially if they do make this move while retaining MLF. I think that it would be more collaborative in the sense that they create the 2023 scheme together, they create the playbook together, they outline the staff roles & responsibilities together, they determine the offseason approach for the players together. The main difference is Kubiak would likely oversee/support LaFleur in terms of his responsibilities (i.e. gameplan and play-calling) while taking more of a day-to-day focus on the QB room. That's the major benefit

If they bring in Kubiak and fire MLF, then it would be a situation where he'd probably want his son to be the de facto OC instead of MLF. 

 

A lot remains to be seen, but I have a sense that Aaron Wilson translated his report wrong. I don't know for sure, but he could have confused the Jets desire to bring in Kubiak as an indication they were firing MLF. 

[section314]

4 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

I think the play of Zach Wilson is the number 1 issue. Not the only issue. I'm totally fine with the Jets firing LaFleur and trying things with another OC. I could take him or leave him like I said in my original post. I don't have much of an issue with that at all. Maybe Zach will improve or the next QB they sign in FA will play well. I'll be rooting for either to happen. But I just think to be fair to MLF, we have to be honest about the fact that Zach was really bad and the offense didn't look nearly as bad when pretty much anyone else was under center. That's all. 

To be fair, Zach threw 2 td’s against Detroit and gave them the lead that the D coughed up. The next 3 games, 21/2 of which Zach was benched, they scored zero td’s.

[carlito1171]

I'm not advocating for MLF to stay, but if Saleh wants to go out swinging with his guy....adding someone with a wealth of experience in gameplanning, how to get across the techniques they want the position coaches to teach the players, coming up with different ways to attack schemes, etc would be a God send for this team....

Not even close to being an advocate of Lafleur but being a coordinator is much much more than playcalling, and we don't have anyone with experience on the staff in any of these areas 

[JetsFanatic]

Getting the right QB is more important than firing the OC

[Trotter]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I wouldn’t say “anyone.” 
 

We make fun of Woodrow as we should but the irony is he is on an island right now with his 30 something wife laughing at the world.

[SickJetFan]

3 minutes ago, football guy said:

LaFleur would probably answer to Kubiak unofficially if they do make this move while retaining MLF. I think that it would be more collaborative in the sense that they create the 2023 scheme together, they create the playbook together, they outline the staff roles & responsibilities together, they determine the offseason approach for the players together. The main difference is Kubiak would likely oversee/support LaFleur in terms of his responsibilities (i.e. gameplan and play-calling) while taking more of a day-to-day focus on the QB room. That's the major benefit

If they bring in Kubiak and fire MLF, then it would be a situation where he'd probably want his son to be the de facto OC instead of MLF. 

 

A lot remains to be seen, but I have a sense that Aaron Wilson translated his report wrong. I don't know for sure, but he could have confused the Jets desire to bring in Kubiak as an indication they were firing MLF. 

[JetPotato]

2 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

Getting the right QB is more important than firing the OC

Not getting a QB until player transactions commence. We can't discuss one change because another also needs to occur? Wouldn't you want your coaching staff decisions complete, then asses the QB options?

[Darnold's Forehead]

Hope MLF goes out guns blazing and publicly sh!ts on Zach.

[bonkertons]

As someone who was/is fine with giving MLF one more year, this thread has been fantastic.  

[Hex]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

Injuries, the defense, drafting - everything except MLF. 

Then what about the awful playcalling? I guess MLF isn't the person doing that?

[Hex]

1 hour ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Offense looked clearly better with Mike White until he got hurt in Buffalo.  

Generally speaking, the offense is going to take a dip when you are playing backup QBs and 37 year olds on their last hurrah behind an offensive line littered with backups to just get through the final game.

Offense looked better but they couldn't score. That's an OC problem

[JetsFanatic]

5 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

Not getting a QB until player transactions commence. We can't discuss one change because another also needs to occur? Wouldn't you want your coaching staff decisions complete, then asses the QB options?

Of course we can, my point was IMO with a good QB LaFleur could work out as OC.  

[ScarletKnight89]

12 minutes ago, K_O_Brien said:

White didn't throw a touchdown in his last three starts. 

They moved the ball way better when he was playing QB than when Zach was. 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

43 minutes ago, football guy said:

By far the biggest beef players have with LaFleur is his reluctance to face them man-to-man. Too much reliance on the positional coaches to communicate messages to the players. 

Separately, are they confident in him and his scheme?

My gut tells me no and the exit interviews from the players were widely negative.

[ScarletKnight89]

2 minutes ago, Hex said:

Offense looked better but they couldn't score. That's an OC problem

And if they want to fire him thats fine, but it shouldn't blind anyone from the biggest issue, which was the guy they picked 2nd overall.

[JetPotato]

4 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

Of course we can, my point was IMO with a good QB LaFleur could work out as OC.  

Do you believe that LaFleur did everything he could to coach and develop Zach Wilson? Not asking if you think Zach would have succeeded, because there are other factors, but, did LaFleur (and Saleh) have a good plan in place for the #2 overall pick they had EVERYTHING riding on? Do you think he gained the trust of the other offensive players?

[ScarletKnight89]

13 minutes ago, section314 said:

To be fair, Zach threw 2 td’s against Detroit and gave them the lead that the D coughed up. The next 3 games, 21/2 of which Zach was benched, they scored zero td’s.

I don't blame Zach for that loss although he didn't play all that well in that game either. That game was on Saleh and the D. 

Mike White came back with 5 broken ribs because they lost the Lions game and then Zach was beyond horrid against the Jaguars. The final game was a 37 year old Joe Flacco with 3 backup lineman blocking for him in a game that meant nothing.

 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, JetPotato said:

Do you believe that LaFleur did everything he could to coach and develop Zach Wilson? Not asking if you think Zach would have succeeded, because there are other factors, but, did LaFleur (and Saleh) have a good plan in place for the #2 overall pick they had EVERYTHING riding on? Do you think he gained the trust of the offensive players?

Does anyone believe MLF did everything to get the most out of:

mims, moore, carter and ruckert?  

[T0mShane]

16 minutes ago, football guy said:

LaFleur would probably answer to Kubiak unofficially if they do make this move while retaining MLF. I think that it would be more collaborative in the sense that they create the 2023 scheme together, they create the playbook together, they outline the staff roles & responsibilities together, they determine the offseason approach for the players together. The main difference is Kubiak would likely oversee/support LaFleur in terms of his responsibilities (i.e. gameplan and play-calling) while taking more of a day-to-day focus on the QB room. That's the major benefit

If they bring in Kubiak and fire MLF, then it would be a situation where he'd probably want his son to be the de facto OC instead of MLF. 

 

A lot remains to be seen, but I have a sense that Aaron Wilson translated his report wrong. I don't know for sure, but he could have confused the Jets desire to bring in Kubiak as an indication they were firing MLF. 

Saleh could really use this kind of mentorship, too. 

[football guy]

6 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Who are the current babysitting senior assistants on staffs 

It's actually very common. Titles are often just titles, what's more important is understanding the responsibilities. Some of the big names: 

• Kubiak "babysat" Kevin Stefanski in 2019
• Mike Shula was brought in this year to "babysit" Ken Dorsey and Joe Brady in Buffalo. 
• Mark Duffner was hired to "babysit" Lou Anarumo in Cincinnati. 
• Jim Schwartz was hired to do the same for Shane Bowen. 
• Dom Capers with Ejiro Evero. 
• John Morton for Ben Johnson and the young Lions offensive staff. 

It happens a lot 

[Charlie Brown]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

I think a real possibility exists where they "demote" him without changing his title by hiring someone who would essentially serve as his boss. That's why Gary Kubiak's name is being put out there; they can hire him in a similar capacity as the Vikings did in 2019 (Assistant Head Coach/Offensive Advisor) to oversee the offense and the QBs, while leaving the OC in place in a minimized role. 

This is what they should do!

Let MLF learn!!!  He isn't an idiot, he has real potential but he is still obviously still raw!

[section314]

2 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

Do you believe that LaFleur did everything he could to coach and develop Zach Wilson? Not asking if you think Zach would have succeeded, because there are other factors, but, did LaFleur (and Saleh) have a good plan in place for the #2 overall pick they had EVERYTHING riding on?

Perfectly said. Zach has regressed since BYU. This is not the guy they drafted.

[Sammybighead]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Does anyone believe MLF did everything to get the most out of:

mims, moore, carter and ruckert?  

Most???

There wasn't even a bare minimum. 

Imagine having a slot guy like Moore and never throwing him a slant route out of the slot. 

[56mehl56]

42 minutes ago, peebag said:

Tough to scheme an adequate offense when you don't have an adequate QB in the room.

Also tough to scheme an adequate offense when the OC wants to force his system on the players as opposed to adapting your system to fit the players. 

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Saleh could really use this kind of mentorship, too. 

Woody is penny wise and pound foolish. When you hire inexperienced coaches to save a buck, you need an entire coterie to “develop” them. And then you end up paying several at the same time as you churn through them. 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, section314 said:

Perfectly said. Zach has regressed since BYU. This is not the guy they drafted.

He was unstoppable in Pop Warner 

[T0mShane]

It’s difficult to express how much the analytics community hates Zach Wilson. 
 

 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Sammybighead said:

Most???

There wasn't even a bare minimum. 

Imagine having a slot guy like Moore and never throwing him a slant route out of the slot. 

I think there’s a lot to be said in hindsight about mims and moore getting deactivated b/c they couldn’t learn all the wr positions.  And with moore, he lashed out at MLF and saleh put him in the brig.  This is how they ran their corporation.  

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, section314 said:

Perfectly said. Zach has regressed since BYU. This is not the guy they drafted.

The guy they drafted didn’t face a pass rush until Week One of his rookie season. The guy they have now is what that looks like.

[Warfish]

22 minutes ago, section314 said:

To be fair, Zach threw 2 td’s against Detroit and gave them the lead that the D coughed up.

To be fair, Zach doesn't win much if his D didn't win most of his starts.

22 minutes ago, section314 said:

The next 3 games, 21/2 of which Zach was benched, they scored zero td’s.

Hard to see Zach doing better.

[football guy]

Just now, Charlie Brown said:

This is what they should do!

Let MLF learn!!!  He isn't an idiot, he has real potential but he is still obviously still raw!

They clearly put him into a leadership position that he wasn't ready for. At the same time I don't think you can just hoard coaches over potential. There's a fine line... they hired Knapp to serve as that crutch for MLF and Rob Calabrese. He passed, and Saleh totally misjudged the situation... I really like Saleh but that right there was complete and utter incompetence; almost a fire-able offense considering how much they had invested in developing their QBs. 

I'm waiting to hear more myself, but I haven't gotten the sense MLF would be fired. The only way I figured he would get fired was if they had someone else in mind who is proven and wants the job, OR if they identified someone with a ton of experience and credibility (i.e. Gary Kubiak) who wants to work with someone else. 

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’s difficult to express how much the analytics community hates Zach Wilson. 
 

 

I will forever remember the live shot during a game of Lil Mikey screaming, "How do you call plays for this kid!??!!!"....

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

Woody is penny wise and pound foolish. When you hire inexperienced coaches to save a buck, you need an entire coterie to “develop” them. And then you end up paying several at the same time as you churn through them. 

I’ve said forever that Woody needs to hire an old hand to oversee football ops. The org chart has always been a fluid mess here. They need a football czar who can come down and bitchsmack anyone wearing a bunny costume.

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’s difficult to express how much the analytics community hates Zach Wilson. 
 

 

I’m pretty sure Analytics’ entire family — including Grandpa Math and Uncle Statistics — feels the same.