Jets resign Mcgovern

[Lith]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Center before the 4th/5th just fell off the table.  If Wypler falls to the 5th (doubtful) I could maybe see him there now.

I don't see it the same way.  Not needing to count on a rookie to come in and play immediately makes sense.  If you like a Tippman of JMS in the second.  We still can take him and hope he beats out McGovern.  But these rookies are just projections.  And not knowing details of the McGovern contract, he may be cuttable if a rook beats him out.

[peekskill68]

5 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Most of us would be happy with this but for some reason I don't think he's coming.  

IMO, the Jets already have his replacement ... his name is Chuck Clark.  Could be wrong but his strengths are similar to Alexander's (covering tight ends and a box run defender) and the Jets have converted safeties to linebackers before.

I'm not sure on this.  Alexander outweighs Clark by 20 lbs.  IMO, at 209, Clark would struggle matching up with most TE's... 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

still draft Tippman.

Hughes keeps saying McGovern is good.

Mike White’s ribs might beg to differ.

And apparently the rest of the league thinks he sucks too.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

21 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

the one wild card in the draft for the jets is, if they (and avt) are comfortable playing him at LT.  if that's a switch they may make permanently, then they can go in another direction much easier

I don't necessarily believe it's a permanent switch since Saleh was recently quoted as saying he believes AVT will be an All Pro Right Guard.

But the Jets have some wildcards at Tackle.  In a perfect world, Brown, Becton and Mitchell all stay healthy ..... we just cannot bank on it.

So why use precious draft capital to find that depth when it is sitting on the roster?  In 2023, AVT at either tackle spot > whoever you draft at #13, with the possible exception of Skoronski, who can also start at guard in the case of injuries or poor play (Tomlinson) on the interior.  That's why I see Skoronski as a real possibility at #13 if he drops (which I don't think he will do).

So I personally believe AVT is the reason you don't reach for a starting quality tackle in 2023. But it's also a reason you need to continue to bolster the interior of the line.

It will be interesting to see..

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

2 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

I'm not sure on this.  Alexander outweighs Clark by 20 lbs.  IMO, at 209, Clark would struggle matching up with most TE's... 

You're right, he does but if you have a minute read the scouting reports on Clark.

He's one of the best matching up 1:1 in coverage against Tight Ends.  As in elite .... that said, he's mostly subpar in other coverages such as deep zone.

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Center before the 4th/5th just fell off the table.  If Wypler falls to the 5th (doubtful) I could maybe see him there now.

Disappointed honestly, McGovern isn't terribly good, and O-line is shaping up to be as bad, and as unreliable health-wise, as it was last year.

WR at #13 may be more of a possibility than I previously thought, seeing this.

More and more I think JD thinks the Oline is fine as-is, and it's not in need of material upgrade.  i.e. "The Jets have always believed this group is better than it showed last year".

Probably thinks they just need to stay healthy.  I think he's wrong, but it's his job on the line, not mine.

/shrug

No argument here but a QB that can actually play QB and get rid of the ball quickly should help the O line there. With Zach the O lineman had no idea what or were that little cretin would end up during pass plays. 

[Barry McCockinner]

7 minutes ago, Lith said:

I don't see it the same way.  Not needing to count on a rookie to come in and play immediately makes sense.  If you like a Tippman of JMS in the second.  We still can take him and hope he beats out McGovern.  But these rookies are just projections.  And not knowing details of the McGovern contract, he may be cuttable if a rook beats him out.

The fact that he can slide to guard, which is actually his better position, is nice too. Draft JMS (or whoever) and bump McG to G when JMS is ready where he can make the C calls initially. Gets Tomlinson off the field if he sucks goat dicks again.

[Adoni Beast]

Good early season starting late season depth signing.

It should not preclude us from drafting a Center in one of the first few rounds though.

[Warfish]

Just now, The Crusher said:

No argument here but a QB that can actually play QB and get rid of the ball quickly should help the O line there. With Zach the O lineman had no idea what or were that little cretin would end up during pass plays. 

JD is banking his future employment in NY on Rodgers, and the bolded above. 

[BurntDice]

9 minutes ago, Lith said:

I don't see it the same way.  Not needing to count on a rookie to come in and play immediately makes sense.  If you like a Tippman of JMS in the second.  We still can take him and hope he beats out McGovern.  But these rookies are just projections.  And not knowing details of the McGovern contract, he may be cuttable if a rook beats him out.

If a 24 year old Schmidt’s doesn’t come on immediately and start if he’s a high pick it’s a total egg on face moment. 
 

Instead it could have been an impactful player who will see snaps. Not including injuries OL really don’t rotate much

[CTJetsFan]

57 minutes ago, Sarge4Tide said:

Now let's get Kwon Alexander back!

This 100%

[JetPotato]

20 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

Fixed 

Right. The limited success the Jets have had on offense in the past 30 years had nothing to do with Mawae or Mangold. Those offenses were crap whenever they weren't in a game. There's a reason, especially when you have nincompoop after nincompoop taking the snaps.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

10 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

McGovern can still play. Would like to see him move to G though

There is a reason teams weren't tripping over themselves to sign him.

Over the past 3 years, he has let up the most sacks (15) at the Center position.

His zone run blocking has been very good but slipped a little towards the end of last year.

His power run game .. meh.

His ability to call out protections has been subpar.  The Jets are continually hurt on blitzes and stunts

You're right ... he might be a better Guard than Center.

 

@TomShane

 

[LIJetsFan]

Signing him at this late stage of FA convinces me we got him at a discount.  Therefore this is a fantastic pre draft signing.  JD is the king of flexibility. 

ps: if it somehow fell that we had Tannehill under center rather than AR I'd be just as jazzed for 2023.  Go Jets!  

[BurntDice]

7 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

Right. The limited success the Jets have had on offense in the past 30 years had nothing to do with Mawae or Mangold. Those offenses were crap whenever they weren't in a game. There's a reason, especially when you have nincompoop after nincompoop taking the snaps.

Look at how the league values C, I’m not just making this up. The vast majority of starting centers make in the 6 mil range, which is the lowest of all OL. Many times they are also mid round picks or later. This shows that many fans overrate them. 
 

Centers rarely take on 1 on 1 blocks against DL. They usually help the guards or pull and try and take out a smaller lb/s. This by itself makes them less valuable. Many times guys who play center do it because they aren’t big/strong enough to play guard. 
 

Trying to correlate  the jets failure with the center position is ridiculous. Having bad QBs is why the jets have sucked, it has nothing to do with center play. 

[Bleedin Green]

Well they sure have doubled down on 2 of the team's worst units from last year of OL and LB. Will be interesting to see if they hit those positions again in the draft, or feel other depth / recent years' picks could have their breakout season.

I'm sure they know age is not on the side of most of these guys, so last year's starters won't get better on their own. However, it's a totally different story if some of them will primarily be providing depth / insurance though.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Center before the 4th/5th just fell off the table.  If Wypler falls to the 5th (doubtful) I could maybe see him there now.

Disappointed honestly, McGovern isn't terribly good, and O-line is shaping up to be as bad, and as unreliable health-wise, as it was last year.

WR at #13 may be more of a possibility than I previously thought, seeing this.

More and more I think JD thinks the Oline is fine as-is, and it's not in need of material upgrade.  i.e. "The Jets have always believed this group is better than it showed last year".

Probably thinks they just need to stay healthy.  I think he's wrong, but it's his job on the line, not mine.

/shrug

 

OL will look much, much better with Aaron Rodgers at QB.  Not worried at all.  

And if AVT manages to stay healthy all year the running game will be just as explosive as it was for the first half of the season in '22.

[Saul Goodman]

McGovern isn’t “solid”, don’t know what you guys are talking about. He’s below average to poor. 

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

OL will look much, much better with Aaron Rodgers at QB.  Not worried at all.  

I hope you're right.

And I hope, if we're NOT going to bolster the O-line in the draft, we at least grab another legit offensive weapon, WR or RB.

Nothing would be more Jetsy than the trade for Rodgers, then draft DT, LB, Safety, DT, to add to the #4 overall Defense last year, lol.

[shuler82]

If last year serves any lesson, I’d still expect another OL pick or two this draft.   But right now they have 4 OT -edit -3 (was counting Becton) who started games for them last year (5 with AVT) and are returning their starting interior line.

Biggest holes I see are a true FS, run plugging DT, and upgrading the WR/RB rooms 

[Doggin94it]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

Smart.  McGovern is solid.   W/ Brown coming back, AVT getting healthy and resigning McGovern.  You're returning 4 of 5 starters.  I like it.  Cohesion is important on the OL and if all goes well, the only "new" starter to the OL this year could be Becton, assuming he can stay healthy.  It also gives the Jets a ton of flexibility going into the draft, so the timing is fantastic.  While I still think T is prob the pick at 13, I think altogether, their not in a position where they will feel forced to take a player just because of need. 

This. Also, depending on the length of the deal, it may or may not foreclose C in the 2nd. If it's a 1 year deal, that's still firmly on the table. If it's 2 or 3 years, you're probably looking more at Oluwatimi or Stromberg

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

So now it'll be DT then S then LB. 

ALL GAS

[KRL]

Interesting, must mean Ben Jones was too expensive or is retiring.  No problem with McGovern

for another year (and continuity) it also means we don't have to use our top picks for an immediate

starter at C

[freestater]

I still want a T and C early in the draft 

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

Trying to correlate  the jets failure with the center position is ridiculous. Having bad QBs is why the jets have sucked, it has nothing to do with center play. 

Exactly.  The Jets have had a couple  of the best Centers in NFL history and a few other very solid ones over the decades and have two division titles since the merger to show for it.  

Center is a "pass/fail" position (Wesley Johnson and Spencer Long were in the "fail" group, to be sure).  You just need a decent one.  An elite one is nice to have but not a requirement.  It's only a true difference-making position if you do NOT have a decent one.

[jetstream23]

Could IOL still be a candidate with one of those second round picks? Not sure but I am guessing McGovern could be on a one year deal. I also think Tomlinson under performed in 2022, and we need to plan for a new OG. How about a G/C prospect? 

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I hope you're right.

And I hope, if we're NOT going to bolster the O-line in the draft, we at least grab another legit offensive weapon, WR or RB.

Nothing would be more Jetsy than the trade for Rodgers, then draft DT, LB, Safety, DT, to add to the #4 overall Defense last year, lol.

I don't think running it back with the current OL group precludes Douglas from using high-ish pick(s) on the unit.  It just means we have some Week 1 continuity to fall back on while the young OL we have in the pipeline (I.E. Max Mitchell and whoever we take this year) develop.

[BurntDice]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Exactly.  The Jets have had some of the best Centers in NFL history over the decades and have two division titles since the merger to show for it.

Center is a "pass/fail" position (Wesley Johnson and Spencer Long were in the "fail" group, to be sure).  You just need a decent one.  An elite one is nice to have but not a requirement.

Exactly. As long as they aren’t a train wreck then you are totally fine. 
 

Ol in general is becoming less and less important also as the quick passing game keeps being the go to. Pass the ball in 2.5 seconds = elite vs average ol doesnt matter 

[KRL]

I still think OT will be our #1 pick but the #2 pick (the other one will go to GB) could be freed up

for the best defender on the board (DT, LB, S).  Then get a C prospect in the 4th round

[bonkertons]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

Or does it mean both 2s are going North ? Hope not ... That sound exorbitant.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

 

There's no chance of them getting both 2nds this year.  Maybe one and a 2nd or 3rd next year.  Picks 42 and 43 have roughly the same value as our 13th pick, which was apparently a non-starter for JD.

[Jetsfan80]

11 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

So now it'll be DT then S then LB. 

ALL GAS

I don't understand why people think Douglas is going to go full needs-based early in the draft this year.

His draft history is littered with failure pre-2022 but you can't deny the process at least has made sense in the early part of the drafts.  He's taken what he hoped to be a franchise LT, a QB, two WRs, a high-end interior G/T combo, a CB, an athletic EDGE rusher, and a playmaking RB with his 1st and 2nd round picks so far in his tenure.

Only a few (3 or 4) of those 9 early picks have worked out but it's very hard to argue he's valued the wrong positions since his arrival.  Not to mention the traits he's looked for.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, KRL said:

I still think OT will be our #1 pick but the #2 pick (the other one will go to GB) could be freed up

for the best defender on the board (DT, LB, S).  Then get a C prospect in the 4th round

I have a hard time believing the jets will go OT/C, there’re going to address D in the first 2 rounds.  

[slimjasi]

11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I hope you're right.

And I hope, if we're NOT going to bolster the O-line in the draft, we at least grab another legit offensive weapon, WR or RB.

Nothing would be more Jetsy than the trade for Rodgers, then draft DT, LB, Safety, DT, to add to the #4 overall Defense last year, lol.

I wouldn’t worry about it too much - I still think we are taking a tackle at 13 

[KRL]

Pre-draft the OLine depth looks pretty good:

Brown
Tomlinson
McGovern
Vera-Tucker
Becton

Mitchell
Schweitzer
Colon
Ogbuehi
 

Add in an OT in round 1 and a C in round 2 or 4 and we should be set

[derp]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Exactly.  The Jets have had a couple  of the best Centers in NFL history and a few other very solid ones over the decades and have two division titles since the merger to show for it.  

Center is a "pass/fail" position (Wesley Johnson and Spencer Long were in the "fail" group, to be sure).  You just need a decent one.  An elite one is nice to have but not a requirement.  It's only a true difference-making position if you do NOT have a decent one.

Offensive line in general. I’m probably off numbers wise and just kind of making things up but across the league among the 32 starters at each OL spot it’s probably like 3-5 make a positive impact on their team, 6-8 make a negative impact, and the rest don’t move the needle a whole lot.

It’s the negatives that kill you. McGovern absolutely isn’t a positive difference maker but he’s not bad enough to be a needle mover in the negative either.

Needing to avoid the negatives is why I’m leery of guys with “tools” super early in the draft too. Late round one or after, fine. I don’t really care about the pancake block if it’s got some whiffs mixed in there too. Just give me the consistent guy with good technique.