Browns willing to deal the #2 pick.

[SR24]

Mo #20 and a 2017 2nd rounder for the #2 pick would be my offer. We will have a lot of cap room again next year to add players and fill these holes so that 2nd round pick could be expendable if it means getting a franchise qb. 

[Mogglez]

On 4/14/2016 at 10:18 AM, The Crusher said:

I would guess slide and have a pair of knees that don't look like a dog gnawed on them?

Go through progressions, read a defense, make proper blitz pickups, throw a ball accurately. You know, the little things. 

[ChuckkieB]

I have faith in the folks making the picks, so if they decide to trade up for a QB or draft one at #20, I'm fine with either scenario and will root my ass off for whoever it is to succeed.  I'll be beating this drum until the Jets strike gold and I don't have to - franchise QB's don't grow on trees so if you see one within your grasp, you have to pull out all the stops to get him. 

[The Crusher]

7 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Go through progressions, read a defense, make proper blitz pickups, throw a ball accurately. You know, the little things. 

To be fair no proof Wentz can at the NFL, but we do know with certainty that Griffin cannot. So yes.

[afosomf]

4 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

To be fair no proof Wentz can at the NFL, but we do know with certainty that Griffin cannot. So yes.

1-AA to ACC would be a major step up in class for wentz, nevermind SEC, He also has been hurt alot at NDSU. I frankly dont see him as a stud.

[The Crusher]

10 minutes ago, afosomf said:

1-AA to ACC would be a major step up in class for wentz, nevermind SEC, He also has been hurt alot at NDSU. I frankly dont see him as a stud.

Never know but I would say 50/50 is generous.  

[chirorob]

On 4/15/2016 at 7:51 PM, joewilly12 said:

If the Jets organization feels that strongly that they can draft a franchise QB at #2 then by all means make the trade and give up whatever you have to get this done. 

I agree.

But, if they are not 100% sold on the kid, then they should not do it.  Trading that much for a guy you are unsure of is risky, risky for the franshise, risky for your career.

[Ex-Rex]

On 4/14/2016 at 8:15 PM, joewilly12 said:

Send them Mo and Milliner and our #20 pick for the #2 pick and get the franchise QB. 

Why on earth would the Browns want Milliner? He hasn't done a thing but get hurt in three straight seasons? Ridiculous offer man. Milliner is spare parts and Cleveland knows it. Mo is a vastly overpriced DE who is not elite - at least not JJ Watt elite. Maybe when Mangini was coaching there we might have had a chance to dupe them like you suggest, but not likely now. They would want the rest of our draft plus our number one next year. Worth it?

[Sperm Edwards]

21 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

Why on earth would the Browns want Milliner? He hasn't done a thing but get hurt in three straight seasons? Ridiculous offer man. Milliner is spare parts and Cleveland knows it. Mo is a vastly overpriced DE who is not elite - at least not JJ Watt elite. Maybe when Mangini was coaching there we might have had a chance to dupe them like you suggest, but not likely now. They would want the rest of our draft plus our number one next year. Worth it?

There's a good reason why, at least in theory. He's a former top 10 pick whose stock is rock bottom without being caused by horrid play on the field. Eye of the beholder, he could still be a really good player if he could stay healthy for more than 5 minutes.

Frankly he's no more of a bust than Justin Gilbert's been for them. I forget who, but I think there was one game Gilbert literally refused to go into the game last year. Gilbert was taken almost exactly in the same spot a year after Milliner, but in a vastly better 1st round draft class. I mean just look at the instant-studs Cleveland passed over to take him.

I don't think Milliner carries much trade value on his own (even-up), and certainly it would be a conditional pick at that. However, if a team is nearly-ok with our compensation for a larger trade that doesn't include Milliner, then as a high upside throw-in he could push a deal over the edge. Just like Cleveland wanted Abram Elam and he became the sticking point in moving up to #5 in the Sanchez trade. Meanwhile, on his own what trade value did Elam really have on his one year RFA tender? Very little.

[The Engineer]

47 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

Why on earth would the Browns want Milliner? He hasn't done a thing but get hurt in three straight seasons? Ridiculous offer man. Milliner is spare parts and Cleveland knows it. Mo is a vastly overpriced DE who is not elite - at least not JJ Watt elite. Maybe when Mangini was coaching there we might have had a chance to dupe them like you suggest, but not likely now. They would want the rest of our draft plus our number one next year. Worth it?

First off that is a crappy package that CLE wouldn't go for. Chances are Mo + 20 + 3rd + 2nd next year would probably get it done. Second every time someone says MO isn't elite they deserved to be called a fool. So my friend you are a fool, and nuts at the same time.

[detectivekimble]

2 hours ago, The Engineer said:

First off that is a crappy package that CLE wouldn't go for. Chances are Mo + 20 + 3rd + 2nd next year would probably get it done. Second every time someone says MO isn't elite they deserved to be called a fool. So my friend you are a fool, and nuts at the same time.

If that gets it done, and Goff is sitting there at #2, you have to make that trade.  

That ain't going to get it done, though.

[Powpow]

On ‎4‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 10:43 AM, The Engineer said:

First off that is a crappy package that CLE wouldn't go for. Chances are Mo + 20 + 3rd + 2nd next year would probably get it done. Second every time someone says MO isn't elite they deserved to be called a fool. So my friend you are a fool, and nuts at the same time.

That sounds equitable according to draft points. Trading Mo to The Cowboys and exchanging draft positions (#4 to #20) is also equitable so I'd imagine your scenario for the #2 spot is right on.  I'd do it in a heartbeat if Goff is there and it appears he will be.  One of the NFL Network guys was talking about how Wentz perfectly fits Fisher's scheme and what he wants from a QB.  He's adamant Wentz will be the Rams pick which leaves Goff there for the taking.  It looks like the Browns aren't enamored with either Wentz or Goff or they would have traded up to the #1 spot with the Titans and ensure they get the QB they desire.  They appear to be willing to trade down and stockpile picks. 

    

 

[Adoni Beast]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/04/19/report-browns-initiating-calls-shopping-no-2-pick/

- Basically Browns calling teams and actuvely shopping the pick now. It went from they'd be interested, to lets get rid of this pick. 

Big Mac's on his way to making a deal. 

[Beerfish]

I wonder how most teams view the top 2 guys.  That is the whole key to this Clev trade scenario.  Do most teams think the top two guys are close and both worthy of going to get .  Do teams just love one guy but don't like the other guy?  If there is a deal for that pick I'll be surprised if it does not happen on the draft floor.

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/04/19/report-browns-initiating-calls-shopping-no-2-pick/

- Basically Browns calling teams and actuvely shopping the pick now. It went from they'd be interested, to lets get rid of this pick. 

Big Mac's on his way to making a deal. 

Ofcourse they're making calls.  Look at what the Titans just received.  They'd be fools not to look at a trading partner if it nets them that many picks. 

[Maxman]

5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I wonder how most teams view the top 2 guys.  That is the whole key to this Clev trade scenario.  Do most teams think the top two guys are close and both worthy of going to get .  Do teams just love one guy but don't like the other guy?  If there is a deal for that pick I'll be surprised if it does not happen on the draft floor.

If the Jets traded up then clearly they think there are two franchise QBs in this draft.

It doesn't seem like a move Mac would make based on all the scouting reports. But you only have to be right once when it comes to the QB position and you will be set for a long time.

[Colgateman]

When has trading up and giving up a sh*t ton of picks worked?

[Jetsfan80]

9 minutes ago, Colgateman said:

When has trading up and giving up a sh*t ton of picks worked?

Never.  Plus this happened:

 

[Augustiniak]

the browns want to deal the pick b/c they don't want wentz that badly.  wentz will fall past dallas and i think he'll be there at 7, where it would be easier for teams to trade up.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

the browns want to deal the pick b/c they don't want wentz that badly.  wentz will fall past dallas and i think he'll be there at 7, where it would be easier for teams to trade up.

I thought the Rams were taking Wentz.

[Augustiniak]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I thought the Rams were taking Wentz.

schefter says the rams want goff and the browns think there's a big gap between him and wentz, FWIW.  the browns can take the best player in the draft, and still get a qb in the 2nd, if they can't trade the pick for reasonable value.  the only team i can see trading up for him is the eagles who have been talking up wentz way too much to the point where you have to assume it's bs.  also now that the 49ers have kapernick they may not even take a qb in the first, esp. since they have so many draft picks they can take one later on.  

[Pcola]

24 minutes ago, Colgateman said:

When has trading up and giving up a sh*t ton of picks worked?

Actually it worked for the NYG.  And they got the lesser talented QB.

there are basically three options to get your franchise QB.

option 1:  Draft them in the top few picks of the draft like:

Car, Pitt, Indy, Atl, Det, NYG, Jax, SD, and more recently, Ten, TB, and now LARams.

option 2:. Dump a butt load of cash at an aging vet like:

Phi, Chi, AZ, KC or a guy with less than a half of a season in starts, Hou.

Option 3:. Draft a guy later and hope he develops.   For the most part, these are round 1 guys or pretty high #2s.  Of the remaining teams not currently looking to upgrade the QB position that were able to develop their guy are GB, Balt.  oak looks like you can include Carr in this list.  The jury is still out on Dalton and Bridgewater.

this leaves Dal, NE, and Sea as anomalies.  

The only teams not mentioned are the Jets, who keep trying the second round option with failed results, Buf & Mia who both has first rounders on their rosters, Cle, Den, and SF.

Macc has scouted Goff for at least two years and has scouted Lynch extensively this year.  If he pulls the trigger on either of these guys, regardless of what we give up, we are not having to look at upgrading the position every year.

[Raideraholic]

27 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

the browns want to deal the pick b/c they don't want wentz that badly.  wentz will fall past dallas and i think he'll be there at 7, where it would be easier for teams to trade up.

The reports I heard were the Browns were calling all teams in the top ten looking to trade the # 2 pick .   They might not to want to drop down that far ( 20 pick) in the draft . ( the guy they are targeting might be gone by than). 

Also the Eagles were supposedly the runner up to the Rams for the number 1 pick in this draft.   ( could be the favorites to land the second pick in the draft if they are serious about drafting a Qb- isn't a smokescreen

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Raideraholic said:

The reports I heard were the Browns were calling all teams in the top ten looking to trade the # 2 pick .   They might not to want to drop down that far ( 20 pick) in the draft . ( the guy they are targeting might be gone by than). 

Also the Eagles were supposedly the runner up to the Rams for the number 1 pick in this draft.   ( could be the favorites to land the second pick in the draft if they are serious about drafting a Qb- isn't a smokescreen

the only team i could see trading for #2 in the top 10 is the eagles and they've been talking up wentz so much you have to assume they have a different target.  i think it's elliott.  i think wentz could drop if the browns don't take him.

[Greenseed4]

Can we just trade for Sam Bradford after PHI jumps up to #2?

they'll give up picks to jump.

we'll get CLE picks for Mo.

we can trade picks for Fragile Sam.

 

 

[Pcola]

3 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

Can we just trade for Sam Bradford after PHI jumps up to #2?

they'll give up picks to jump.

we'll get CLE picks for Mo.

we can trade picks for Fragile Sam.

 

 

Bradford makes $18m.  Why would we pay him that when we wont pay Fitz more than half of that, and he's better?

Also find it implausible that a money ball front office would even consider Mo and his contract demands.

[CrazyCarl40]

19 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

Can we just trade for Sam Bradford after PHI jumps up to #2?

they'll give up picks to jump.

we'll get CLE picks for Mo.

we can trade picks for Fragile Sam.

You want to trade assets for a guy in the same post you call Fragile Sam? Why? He's not even that good when healthy, which is never.

[Greenseed4]

1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

You want to trade assets for a guy in the same post you call Fragile Sam? Why? He's not even that good when healthy, which is never.

He's plenty good when healthy. On the Eagles he did really well with Jordan Matthews, and we're about to have like five Jordan Mathewses. (Marshall, Decker, Treadwell, Enunwa, Vannett). 

[CrazyCarl40]

Just now, Greenseed4 said:

He's plenty good when healthy. On the Eagles he did really well with Jordan Matthews, and we're about to have like five Jordan Mathewses. (Marshall, Decker, Treadwell, Enunwa, Vannett). 

How do you go about fitting his massive contract on the Jets? And no, he's not very good.

[Greenseed4]

2 hours ago, Pcola said:

Bradford makes $18m.  Why would we pay him that when we wont pay Fitz more than half of that, and he's better?

Also find it implausible that a money ball front office would even consider Mo and his contract demands.

Yeah but. 

1. His contract isn't $18M per. His guaranteed money averages out to $13M per. 

2. Not paying Fitz starter money doesn't mean the front office wouldn't pay for someone they deem worthy. Recall, we were in the running for Olivier Vernon, and Beecham at some point. Plus this deal hinges on trading Mo which frees up ample cap space. 

3. Moneyball, or installing a new culture? Wilkerson is squeaky clean, young, and very talented at a position of need for a team with an excess of cap space and an empty roster.  Cleveland is an INCREDIBLY likely trade partner. 

4. Is Fitz really better than Bradford? (ignoring original draft position, current contracts, and accuracy) Really?

[Greenseed4]

13 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

How do you go about fitting his massive contract on the Jets? And no, he's not very good.

Cap magic. A la Wilkerson trade. 

Come on, Carl, keep up. 

[CrazyCarl40]

13 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

Cap magic. A la Wilkerson trade. 

Come on, Carl, keep up. 

Bradford is getting 18 million this year (11 bonus, 7 base salary). Mo's tag is less than 16. Again, how are you fitting it in?

[JPPT1974]

Well we shall see whom the team will draft come Draft Day in a week and a half!

[bitonti]

On 4/16/2016 at 10:43 AM, The Engineer said:

 Chances are Mo + 20 + 3rd + 2nd next year would probably get it done 

The Jets can't get to 2 without trading a future first. Mo or not. 

[Pcola]

34 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

Yeah but. 

1. His contract isn't $18M per. His guaranteed money averages out to $13M per. 

2. Not paying Fitz starter money doesn't mean the front office wouldn't pay for someone they deem worthy. Recall, we were in the running for Olivier Vernon, and Beecham at some point. Plus this deal hinges on trading Mo which frees up ample cap space. 

3. Moneyball, or installing a new culture? Wilkerson is squeaky clean, young, and very talented at a position of need for a team with an excess of cap space and an empty roster.  Cleveland is an INCREDIBLY likely trade partner. 

4. Is Fitz really better than Bradford? (ignoring original draft position, current contracts, and accuracy) Really?

Well if you think Bradford is better than Fitz so be it.  But Bradford hasn't done anything to warrant his contract other than have "potential."  Sooner or later you have to actually DO something.  

And I think it was Shefter who said the Browns wouldn't be interested in any trade that included Mo.  They are probably in total tank mode for Watson next year.  They let all their decent FAs walk, didn't sign any legitimate starters and are presumably passing on drafting a QB since signing RG III.