With Mayfiled lighting up the league for the past month and fun personality are you starting to wish Darnold didn't fall to us?

[Villain The Foe]

40 minutes ago, bitonti said:

this is one of those chicken and egg philosophical discussions that can never be truly answered

When the Jets drafted Bryan Thomas (who had a pretty damn good career, all in all) people were pissed when they didn't take Ed Reed. And yes, Reed is a better player than Bryan Thomas. But my question was always, if Ed Reed showed up to NY and instead of Ray Lewis a fellow Miami U alum telling him to get with the program, he's got Herman Edwards goofball no accountability as his "mentor." Would Ed Reed's career have gone differently? 

 

I wanted Mahomes a couple years ago and by all rights should be flag-boying around this forum to gloat about what a great call that turned out to be. But I know they would have ruined Mahomes, too. there's no Andy Reid here to design amazing plays and impart knowledge. There's Jeremy Bates who was last seen messing with Sasquatch. 

If the Jets took Aaron Rodgers, would they have sat him for 4 seasons? Hell no. did the Jets ruin Mark Sanchez or did Mark Sanchez just suck? Darnold shouldn't have started this season the way they gave him the job (trading Teddy and benching McCown) was yet another Jets' style botch job. (and the fanbase was all there buying jersey's and drinking green Kool aid.

If there's a point to this rant it's this: every job on a football team should be earned.  The Jets coronate quarterbacks and it never works out.  Will Sam Darnold be good? is he already ruined? Tough to say either way but this year was getting thrown into the deep end. At a certain point I wonder if blaming these prospects is easier than considering the Jets franchise crushes everyone who walks through those doors. 

 

100%

If we would have drafted Mahomes, Jets fans today would be talking about how we missed out on Watson and how the Jets are stupid for drafting an Air Raid QB from the Big 12 conference.

If we would have drafted Watson, Jets fans today would be talking about how we missed out on Mahomes and how the Jets are stupid for passing on a once in a lifetime arm talent of Mahomes. 

If we would have drafted Jamal Adams, Jets fans today would be talking about how stupid it was to......never mind  

 

But it's literally happening today. For the past 2 years we've heard nothing but "Draft Darnold" by Jets fans. Today im already seeing folks slip in the "Well, we didnt pass on Mayfield because he was off the board before we picked". Sam Darnold has no chance with this organization for as long as Macc and Bowles are associated. 

And I also agree with the fact that Sam Darnold should not have started. So what he looked good in a few preseason games. It's preseason. Bryce Petty had a few preseason games where he looked good. Doesnt mean that he should start. Darnold wasnt above and beyond the best performer of the preseason, if he was then I would completely undertand because at the end of the day, it's about putting the best players on the field. Teddy Bridgewater was the best QB on the field when he played. Darnold a close 2nd. Today we have a 3rd round pick, but at the expense of Darnold realizing that Preseason isnt the same as the regular season, having no weapons, terrible coaching for a rookie and is now injured. 

But hey, if Woody and Chris find a way to convince Jet Nation that the problem was Bowles and not Bowles and Macc, then prepare yourself for the high probability that Macc will blow that 3rd round pick on a bum. 

This wont work because it isnt a good idea to allow a regime on the hot seat to draft a franchise QB when they could be out the door the day after the season ends. 

[Villain The Foe]

6 hours ago, Drums said:

It looks like the top 4 rookie QBs will all end up being pretty good, but there was just an article on NFL.com about how the Browns have one of the top 5 offensive lines. Enough said. 

Maybe teams should strive to have that, instead of putting everything on the QB and saying "hey, fans only respect if you can do your job and compensate for the other 10 players on the field". Go ask Andrew Luck how that life treated him in the past and then ask him how he feels today. There's not a soul who would take credit away from Luck and give it to the Oline, but isnt it the Oline and running game that's doing their job right now, which is why Luck is blowing the doors off the league?????

C'mon. 

 

While Jets fans wait for a 1 QB man wrecking crew, coaches like Andy Reid, Shawn McVay and Sean Peyton are putting together full offenses. Because they "get it". 

The teams with the top QB's in the league are who? Saints, Chiefs, Rams. 

Now go look at their offense, then come back and tell me if their offense is 100% the QB. 

[Villain The Foe]

What I've most observed in this thread?

The cognitive dissonance of some Jets fans who on one hand discredit Mayfield's awesome play given his competition (bad defenses) and reading reports of the Browns having a respectable Oline, while turning right around and on the other hand say that Darnold isnt having a great year because the team fell apart, he doesnt have an Oline, but when he played bad defenses he looked just as good as Baker etc. ?

 

It seems like the problem isnt Baker Mayfield or Sam Darnold. It seems like Jets fans need to learn that in order to have a good team, you need more than a good quarterback. 

 

 

[Bruce Harper]

Not sure why we are talking about this.  Mayfield wasn't available when we picked.  Remember? 

But I still think Sam will be the better pro.

[Jetsfan80]

43 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

What I've most observed in this thread?

The cognitive dissonance of some Jets fans who on one hand discredit Mayfield's awesome play given his competition (bad defenses) and reading reports of the Browns having a respectable Oline, while turning right around and on the other hand say that Darnold isnt having a great year because the team fell apart, he doesnt have an Oline, but when he played bad defenses he looked just as good as Baker etc. ?

  

It seems like the problem isnt Baker Mayfield or Sam Darnold. It seems like Jets fans need to learn that in order to have a good team, you need more than a good quarterback.  

 

And meanwhile you're putting Baker on a pedestal and putting down Darnold without acknowledging these very things.

The Browns are good.  The Jets are in a mess.  Baker and Darnold are probably both good QB's.  This campaign you're on to make everyone respect Baker Mayfield is getting pretty weird at this point. 

[Villain The Foe]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

And meanwhile you're putting Baker on a pedestal and putting down Darnold without acknowledging these very things.

The Browns are good.  The Jets are in a mess.  Baker and Darnold are probably both good QB's.  This campaign you're on to make everyone respect Baker Mayfield is getting pretty weird at this point. 

Example? And I prefer you quote me.

Also, the Browns arent good. They're actually 4-6-1 if im not mistaken.

And please, dont misconstrue this as a campaign. My campaigning happened back in 2016. Im simply having a conversation in a thread that I enjoy on this site. Unfortunately the Jets aren't doing much for me hence the reason why im not in most of those threads. However, campaigning would be me going to threads that arent relevant to the topic. 

Watching people for example ask "why is this even a topic" makes me wonder, why are they in the thread. 

You're not being campaigned to, you've come here under your own will. 

Now. When you come back with that quote showing how im puttinf down Darnold, know that my response will be showing quotes literally defending Darnold and explaining that his troubles are outside of his ability.

 

[14 in Green]

I was one who was in favor of starting Sam, and was fine with the Bridgewater trade. To be honest I also thought our OL was playing ok until Long was injured and had trouble with his snaps. For about 6 games, everything was going as well as could be expected. Sam was struggling at times, but showing some really promising traits also. It sounds weird, but to me the cutting  of Pryor, which coincided with a rash of skill position injuries, was a turning point. We lost our next 2 games to Jax and the Vikings, looking horrible in both. At this point Sam had stopped progressing. Partly on him I felt, and partly on the O being overmatched. That brought us to the seasons breaking point. We were at 3-5 with games against Miami and Buffalo next. Many of us felt we should win those, and go into our bye at 5-5. The Miami game was a nightmare for Sam, and basically killed our season. The players had to sense this, and with Sam coming up lame that Wednesday, they fell apart in Buffalo. What’s my point? Sam had plenty of opportunities to seize moments this year. Weeks 2 and 3, and again in week 9. He never did. Baker has seized his moments, and we’d be ecstatic if Sam could’ve played remotely as well. I’ll bow to the judgement of the many here who are so confident in how this will turn out, and who feel all the blame for Sam’s play falls on the CS and lack of help he has. Personally I saw a QB who looked like he was increasingly spiraling downward and needed a few weeks off badly. Hopefully he comes back this year and he shows some progress. Right now however, Baker is head and shoulders above Sam as a QB. To say different is being simply a homer.

[UnknownJetFan]

On 11/28/2018 at 2:14 PM, JetFreak89 said:

I wanted Darnold or Mayfield so have nothing against the guy. With that said, I would have told you that Mayfield would outperform Darnold right out of the gate. Baker is older, played more college football and I felt that the overall Browns team had more talent than the Jets due to strong drafts the last few years. 

With that said, I want the long-term answer at QB, not the guy that is great one year until defenses figure him out. I think Darnold still has a higher ceiling and all the tools necessary to become a great QB, it will just take him some time to get there. 

Well said. Also those have to realize whether it is starting QB or coach, we have as Jet fans seen this movie before and it wears thin over time and is not sustainable for long term success ala big mouth Ryan. yea, 2 AFC title games and then complete collapse. That will be what occurs with the QB level for Mayfield if he keeps up being a big mouth since that gets a target on your back. No you need humbleness in this world to sustain success as in the Montana 49ers, QBs like Brees, etc. They keep their mouths shut no matter what even when their own players stink it up, but again very good sustained success. This is why the Steelers are starting to faulter due to guys like Bell, Rothlisburger, with bad external statements and selfishness.

[14 in Green]

5 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

Well said. Also those have to realize whether it is starting QB or coach, we have as Jet fans seen this movie before and it wears thin over time and is not sustainable for long term success ala big mouth Ryan. yea, 2 AFC title games and then complete collapse. That will be what occurs with the QB level for Mayfield if he keeps up being a big mouth since that gets a target on your back. No you need humbleness in this world to sustain success as in the Montana 49ers, QBs like Brees, etc. They keep their mouths shut no matter what even when their own players stink it up, but again very good sustained success. This is why the Steelers are starting to faulter due to guys like Bell, Rothlisburger, with bad external statements and selfishness.

Wow. This was a unique take. I wish we had the Steelers problems.

[Beerfish]

I'll easily lay my mouth and rep on the line.  Darnold will be a better QB than mayfield and mayfield will blaze out like  a sancehz.

Even if we had a chance to draft mayfiedl i'd still rather have darnold.  no change in my opinion on the topic.

[Villain The Foe]

43 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

Well said. Also those have to realize whether it is starting QB or coach, we have as Jet fans seen this movie before and it wears thin over time and is not sustainable for long term success ala big mouth Ryan. yea, 2 AFC title games and then complete collapse. That will be what occurs with the QB level for Mayfield if he keeps up being a big mouth since that gets a target on your back. No you need humbleness in this world to sustain success as in the Montana 49ers, QBs like Brees, etc. They keep their mouths shut no matter what even when their own players stink it up, but again very good sustained success. This is why the Steelers are starting to faulter due to guys like Bell, Rothlisburger, with bad external statements and selfishness.

#1. It seems like the Browns Offensive Coordinator has 6's back on this

#2. The Steelers arent faulting at all. They started off slow, then won 6 straight games before losing last week. 

The Steelers under Big Ben have been in 21 playoff games and numerous Superbowls. They start the season 1-2-1 with a disgruntled RB who refuses to sign and suddenly the sky is fallling. No, that's just media making things bigger than what they are. And their other RB Conner literally made the Bell transition smoother. 

As a sidenote, that's what happens when you dont let players hold your team hostage if you feel like they're not worth the money (You dont pull a Ryan Fitzpatrick), and having quality players behind your starters allows you not over compromise. I remember when the sky was falling for the Steelers back when Mike Wallace was trying to do the same thing. You know what the Steelers did? They let him walk and immediately paid Antonio Brown and made him the starter. How did that work out? I remember when Martavis Bryant was giving issues on the team. What did the Steelers do? They traded him for a 3rd round pick and JuJu Smith secured the #2 WR spot. 

The Steelers are one of the most well-ran franchises in the entire NFL. Granted, their HC at times seems to want be more of a Player than a HC, but even with that....the sky is almost never falling for that organization. And if it ever did, they have the competency to know how to regroup and get things right. 

 

But back to 6. I think it's cool that Mayfield says how he feels and is honest. It seems like if you're a QB in football you have to be a drone with 0 emotions, yet if you're a basketball player like Jordan or Kobe then you're just an alpha dog and you're celebrated for your ultra competitive edge and pettiness to remember any criticism by any player or coach in order to give you a competitive edge. 

Of course my intention isnt to put Mayfield in their class of accomplishment, but in terms of that competitive edge and that pettiness that these guys have, he's right there along with them. Folks only view this in that light because he's a face of the franchise as a franchise QB. I remember when WR Steve Smith was the face of the Panthers, he was HEAVILY outspoken, but it was cool and wasnt looked down on because he was a WR and those guys are always viewed as Diva's...so it's cool. At the end of the day, when the opposition was wishing that Steve Smith stayed humble, Smith requested that they "make" him humble on the field, and more often than not...they couldnt do it. So Steve Smith had the right to talk, because he backed it up. 

This issue is a non issue. He said what he said. If folks dont want the answer, dont ask the question. Im glad Freddie Kitchens backed him up on that. 

[Greensleeves]

On 11/28/2018 at 2:14 PM, JetFreak89 said:

I wanted Darnold or Mayfield so have nothing against the guy. With that said, I would have told you that Mayfield would outperform Darnold right out of the gate. Baker is older, played more college football and I felt that the overall Browns team had more talent than the Jets due to strong drafts the last few years. 

With that said, I want the long-term answer at QB, not the guy that is great one year until defenses figure him out. I think Darnold still has a higher ceiling and all the tools necessary to become a great QB, it will just take him some time to get there. 

well said and I totally agree

[#27TheDominator]

43 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

Well said. Also those have to realize whether it is starting QB or coach, we have as Jet fans seen this movie before and it wears thin over time and is not sustainable for long term success ala big mouth Ryan. yea, 2 AFC title games and then complete collapse. That will be what occurs with the QB level for Mayfield if he keeps up being a big mouth since that gets a target on your back. No you need humbleness in this world to sustain success as in the Montana 49ers, QBs like Brees, etc. They keep their mouths shut no matter what even when their own players stink it up, but again very good sustained success. This is why the Steelers are starting to faulter due to guys like Bell, Rothlisburger, with bad external statements and selfishness.

You don't think Tom Brady has a target on his back?  Do you think it is because of his outspoken nature? 

[14 in Green]

38 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I'll easily lay my mouth and rep on the line.  Darnold will be a better QB than mayfield and mayfield will blaze out like  a sancehz.

Even if we had a chance to draft mayfiedl i'd still rather have darnold.  no change in my opinion on the topic.

How can you seriously choose Sanchez as a comparison to Mayfield? It makes no sense. I don’t think it’d be fair to even compare Darnold to Sanchez, but that’s the one you could argue. Both from USC, both came out early, and both needed time to be developed.

[Beerfish]

2 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

How can you seriously choose Sanchez as a comparison to Mayfield? It makes no sense. I don’t think it’d be fair to even compare Darnold to Sanchez, but that’s the one you could argue. Both from USC, both came out early, and both needed time to be developed.

The look the same, they play very much the same they had some of the same indicators in college imo.  He'll have some success ala sanchez had if the browns other talent keeps improving.  I'll stick to my opinion you stick to yours and we will see who is right in 5 years.

[14 in Green]

We like to think of ourselves as a smart, savvy fan base. I just checked the poll results so far. 86% of you prefer Darnold. I just thought I’d put that out here for you guys to see. Make of it what you want.

[Integrity28]

Baker is thin-skinned. Not sure how that = fun personality.

[nico002]

Darnold is having the most underrated rookie campaign of all time. Maybe he should play UBER conservative to protect his stats. 

[14 in Green]

6 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Darnold is having the most underrated rookie campaign of all time. Maybe he should play UBER conservative to protect his stats. 

I swear. Sometimes I don’t know whether you’re joking around or serious.

[Dunnie]

And now the question we are waiting for.... Why exactly are you not a Browns Fan ???

I ABOSOLUTELY AGREE WITH THIS. 

This is much different than saying "He's a bust, he's only playing well because he's playing against poor defenses". That narrative isnt true. 
 
Again, my point wasn't a celebration, but showing that the dude is doing more than just being carried by his defense (Sanchez) or beating up on scrub teams. There are critical moments in games that Baker Mayfield is stepping up, and it's crazy to see from a rookie. 
 
Will he have ups and downs? Sure, and we'll be right here talking about it when he has those downs as well. But just like folks wouldn't want me to damage control his downs with nonsensical comments, I think folks need not to do that when it comes to his ups. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Villain The Foe]

9 hours ago, Dunnie said:

And now the question we are waiting for.... Why exactly are you not a Browns Fan ???

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

 

I've purchased a my first Browns Mayfield Jersey when I purchased my home and away Jamal Adam Jerseys. That's the first time ever buying another NFL team jersey.

Every game that the Jets/Browns played during the same time schedule...I chosen to watch the Browns game live and watched the Jets later or the next day on Gamepass.

I think the question should be, "Why is the owner(s) of the Jets organization doing such a bad job by basically presenting football that's equivalent to an abortion, that loyal fans of almost 25 years have over the past 3 years picked up watching College football on Saturday's but ultimately going as far as preferring to watch the Cleveland Browns over the NY Jets this season"?

Im not a Browns fan because I dont share in their history to be considered such. But what I can say is that Im tired of wasting my Sunday's watching predictable, sh*t football. So what I do is watch the players who I enjoy and have followed since college.

I picked up watching Arizona St. and Oklahoma college football, but in 2016 I pretty much started watching/following OU football exclusively since coming across Mayfield in late 2015. 

I watched his last two seasons at OU and became a fan. Dude has almost hit Mike Glennon levels before entering the league ?

But seriously, I follow players that I enjoy. It just so happens that 99% of the time those players arent Jets. The exception to that statement has been Jamal Adams.

I remember when I posted my 3 Jerseys of course folks laughed that I purchased a Mayfield Jersey over Darnold, but even more stunned that I purchased 2 Adams Jerseys over Darnold or other players.

Well, look at Adams play on the field. 

 

Anyway, im a Jets fan, im just not a fan of what the Jets have done, as well as their direction ever since Macc gave Fitz 12 million. That move right there let me know that we have a moron overseeing this franchise. When Chris didnt clean house after week 17 last year, it let me know that we now have two morons as owners.

I'd rather enjoy watching football. Jets football isnt enjoyable. Thats just a fact.

[Dunnie]

Please forward to Chris Johnson... That is all.

 

I've purchased a my first Browns ...

 

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

The only difference is mac, bowles and CJ (all suck)

mac/bowles started Sam on day 1 (MNF away game vs former pats* DC) so his first NFL pass was a pick 6, follow up with 3 games in 10 days with little support and everyone acts surprised when Sam looks like a rookie LOL  (mac did not need to trade Teddy or pay uncle josh $10m to sit) bowles even kept starting a center game after game when it was clear to everyone that he could not snap the ball, sabattage,...  Sam was set up to fail and did amazing to survive

Mayfield watched and learned for a couple of games while TT was used up (3 games in 11 days), Baker started in a perfect situation at home with nothing to lose and when teams started to figure him out, the HC was rightfully fired, Baker got a breath of fresh air and his stats are up again but he will look like a rookie once teams get tape on new offense... plus he would have brought circus back to Jets

[Losmeister]

16 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Baker is thin-skinned. Not sure how that = fun personality.

that whole fun personality escaped me first time round...

being kiund of a dick is fun to some, i guess

[KINGDIRK]

On 11/28/2018 at 2:08 PM, jeremy2020 said:

Mayfield will be a bust. He's been feasting on weak defenses and is already talking. When things start getting rough, I wouldn't have confidence in him.

LOL.

If Darnold had Bakers stats as a rookie (63% comp., 17 TD, 7 Ints) why do I get the feeling your opinion would be different?

Mayfield might not be a star but it’s pretty clear even this early - he’s not going to be a bust.

Who cares if he speaks his mind. From everything I’ve read he’s already the leader of the team and his teammates love him. 

[phill1c]

Put Darnold on Cleveland and Mayfield here and we're having the same conversation in reverse.

I mean, really. Do you think Mayfield would be weaving his magic with our OL? He'd be broken up by now. And don't you think you put some protection and weapons around Darnold and he would be making noise.

That said, I didn't like how when Mayfield came into the game against the Jets, Darnold seemed like he assumed a fetal position. And I didn't like all the hype about his "maturity" as a rookie and how so many people bought into it.

[Gastineau Lives]

He's doing great today! I'm so fin jealous.

[choon328]

On 11/28/2018 at 3:53 PM, choon328 said:

He was 2-5 prior to playing Atlanta and Cincinnati with 10 TD & 7 Int.  Cincinnati has the worst defense in the NFL and Atlanta is not very far from them.  These are the teams he's played so far:

                Baker Mayfield                                                                                                         Sam Darnold

Team             Points/Allowed             Yards/Allowed                                          Team                     Points/Allowed                   Yards/Allowed

NYJ                      19                                   21                                                       DET                            24                                          14

Oak                     30                                   26                                                       MIA                            23                                          29

Bal                        1                                     1                                                        CLE                            22                                          31

LAC                      4                                     9                                                       JAX                              8                                            5

TAM                   31                                   27                                                       DEN                            13                                          25

PIT                     12                                    6                                                        IND                             18                                          17

KC                      28                                   30                                                      MIN                            10                                            3

CIN                    32                                   32                                                       CHI                              2                                            4

ATL                    29                                  28                                                       MIA                             23                                           29

Averages:          20.6                               20                                                                                         15.8                                        17.4

 

Darnold has less talent around him and has played better defenses overall than Mayfield. They have both struggled against the top 3 defenses that they've played on the season.  Mayfield is 1-2 against his top 3 defenses and Darnold was 0-3 against his top 3 defenses.  Mayfield put up 44 pts and Darnold put up 39 pts in those 3 games. 

 

Let's stop acting like Mayfield is beating tough defenses b/c he's not.  He has 11 tds & 1 int against CIN/ATL/KC/TAM.  4 of the worst defenses in the NFL.  Beyond those teams he has 6 tds and 6 int and that includes a game against OAK in which he threw for 52.5 Comp and had 2 picks.

This is aging pretty well. Houston 7th in yards allowed and 5th in points allowed. Mayfield looks awful. Don't tell me the weak defenses that he's played hasn't factored into how well he's been playing recently.

[Maxman]

5 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

He's doing great today! I'm so fin jealous.

Was just about to start a new thread on this. What a day.

[Losmeister]

lighting it up...

 

insert insulting personal attack words here

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

7 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

He's doing great today! I'm so fin jealous.

should have drafted baker is old news since he is 6 of 12 for 60 yards and 2 INT 

back to should have drafted Watson since he is 14 of 16 for 147 and a TD

Sam is our man - let move forward

[Grandy]

Aaaannnndd he's a rookie.

[UntouchableCrew]

Bakers imploding ala Darnold against the Dolphins. Reminder these guys are ALL rookies.

[SpartanJet]

Shorty McShortfield "lighting" it up today.  Saw better effort from him running from the po-po than todays performance.

Anyway can't really compare Sam to Baker fairly.  Baker has actual NFL level talent on his offense while Sam has garbage from a decade of drafting neglect and a head coach who is a dummy.

[BroadwayRay]

Over/under on Baker INTs today .... 5?