Manish Maccagnan says Leo isn't getting traded (merged)

[genot]

7 minutes ago, choon328 said:

I never said he was a "jag", i just said he's not worth $15+ million. You could pay half of that to a FA and get the same production. The only defensive linemen that you pay top of the market money to are the ones who get you 10+ sacks per year, the rest are interchangeable. Mo atleast produced enough to warrant his extension, Williams has not come close to that. If they use the 3rd pick on an interior lineman I'd move Leo for a 2nd or 3rd later in the draft.

And Jerry Hughes was a "jag" in Indy as well till he got to the Bills. Then he turned his career around. The same could be said for Anderson.

If he doesn't make more splash plays, he won't be franchised and he'll be allowed to test the market. Bowles coaching staff sucked. Leo was playing out of position, and he's still only 25. It would be foolish to trade him. No you never called him a jag. It's interesting that when Mo's rep was still solid, Williams had a pro bowl season.

[14 in Green]

5 hours ago, Pac said:

I dont think trading him was ever seriously considered.  It was a rumor started by misguided fans that made it's way onto a couple cimini articles.  

As far as what teams would offer I'm sure you'd have many that would give a 1st. 

 

Maybe before last season, but not this upcoming one, due to both his contract situation and his performance.

[k-met57]

i am excited to see what Leo can do in Greg Williams defense. I think considering Mr Peanut had the talent to get the least out of players...this may be a welcome change for Leo and all of us fans.

[HessStation]

Crazy stupid to trade him. Have to give him a year in this new scheme first 

[14 in Green]

I try very hard not to rip any player, Jet or otherwise for his on field play. After playing D-1 baseball back in the Stone Age, I have way too much respect for anyone who makes it to the professional ranks in any sport to call them a bum or bust. That said, I think if Leo was a 3rd or 4th round pick, and not the 6th in the 1st round, people would look at what he's done so far, and say he was never going to be a All Pro type player, but could have a decent 8-10 year career as a starter. At his position, and where he was drafted though, he should be much more then that.

[New York Mick]

It would be asinine to trade him. Who are you going to get that’s available, better at less money? He’s young and has talent, let’s see what Williams can do with him. 

[choon328]

1 hour ago, genot said:

If he doesn't make more splash plays, he won't be franchised and he'll be allowed to test the market. Bowles coaching staff sucked. Leo was playing out of position, and he's still only 25. It would be foolish to trade him. No you never called him a jag. It's interesting that when Mo's rep was still solid, Williams had a pro bowl season.

The excuses for this guy just keep coming. I don't care if Bozo the Clown was the HC. You can't only have 7 sacks the past 2 years and get rewarded with a $14 million salary for 2019. You could take the savings from his contract and Long's and sign the best Guard and Center in FA and completely makeover the offensive line while keeping the same amount of cap space to bring in skill players on offense. Designating $14 million to a guy who has produced so little is a waste.

There are 2 problems with kicking this can till next offseason:

 

1) Next year he gets 6-8 sacks and then is requesting a top of the market deal. 

OR

2) He has a season like this year and he leaves in free agency for nothing when you could've possibly gotten something for him to help the team for the upcoming season.

 

Pro Bowls are nothing but popularity contests and even saying that he was an alternate.  The Pro Bowl means nothing. Being a 1st or 2nd team All-Pro means something (Hello Jamal Adams). Something Leo's never done.

[Gas2No99]

7 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

So what do you realistically think a team would trade for Leo?   His value is pretty low considering production and contract situation.  

a 2nd rounder in the end. To get a team to bite, I'd take a 3rd and a 5th NOW, but it kicks up to a 2nd IF he extends w/such team and we'd return a 6th in that latter scenario. I think that's feasible.

Similar to the Favre and Cromartie Trades that were conditional on certain benchmarks the Jets made in '08 & '10, respectively. 

But I'm AGAINST trading him NOW that we're in Williams' 4-3 base defense. 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

Can't say this news is a surprise.  Hope they're right.  His comments illustrate the same lack of a sense of urgency that he often displays on the field.  Troubling.  He may be in for a rude awakening with Greg Williams in town.  Could be a blessing for his career, and us.  To extend him now would take balls. I hope they know what they're doing here.

[Jetster]

Just play freaking hard is all fans ask. Hopefully Sam & offense don't lead the league in 3 & outs so the defense get be aggressive & hustle on every play they're on the field. Extending him for a fair contract actually increases our cap number even more next year if done right.

[rangerous]

at least at the moment he's still here.  i hope the jets are asking williams to see if leo can play well in his system and thrive.  if leo is a bad fit then that's it.

[jack48]

6 hours ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Can't say this news is a surprise.  Hope they're right.  His comments illustrate the same lack of a sense of urgency that he often displays on the field.  Troubling.  He may be in for a rude awakening with Greg Williams in town.  Could be a blessing for his career, and us.  To extend him now would take balls. I hope they know what they're doing here.

It could be that Leonard's career has been a paean to Todd Bowles' incompetence these past years.  Why would you want to draft someone 6 to absorb double teams?  Bowles usually made the wrong choice.  Darron Lee an ILB?  Sheldon at LB?  Spencer Long at C once he busted his thumb? Revis playing the Sammy Watkins defense in Buffalo in the biggest game of the year.?  Defensive genius? I will trust that Gregg W wants him, and if he does, I just have to bow to his expertise.  The guy has worked steadily as a DC for a long time in this league.

[jamesr]

5 minutes ago, jack48 said:

It could be that Leonard's career has been a paean to Todd Bowles' incompetence these past years.  Why would you want to draft someone 6 to absorb double teams?  Bowles usually made the wrong choice.  Darron Lee an ILB?  Sheldon at LB?  Spencer Long at C once he busted his thumb? Revis playing the Sammy Watkins defense in Buffalo in the biggest game of the year.?  Defensive genius? I will trust that Gregg W wants him, and if he does, I just have to bow to his expertise.  The guy has worked steadily as a DC for a long time in this league.

I think / hope that Williams brings both schematic and motivational improvements as far as Leo is concerned.

Whatever extension we sign him to will likely have a standard "Macc get out" after two years or so, to at least minimize damage if it still doesn't work out.

[nico002]

Most underrated player on this forum. ONE play where it looks like he didn’t give max effort and he’s labeled lazy. Yet when you look at the numbers he played 2x more snaps than outher DLs... yea lazy. He’s a DT playing a 3-4 without an outside rusher. What the eff do you want from him statistically? 

[Drums]

31 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Most underrated player on this forum. ONE play where it looks like he didn’t give max effort and he’s labeled lazy. Yet when you look at the numbers he played 2x more snaps than outher DLs... yea lazy. He’s a DT playing a 3-4 without an outside rusher. What the eff do you want from him statistically? 

I don’t think many underrate him, but instead say he isn’t elite, or great, just good. That’s basically what your post says as well. We all hope this change in defense shows us his true potential but I’m starting to worry we are building Gregg double g Williams up too much. 

[nico002]

1 minute ago, Drums said:

I don’t think many underrate him, but instead say he isn’t elite, or great, just good. That’s basically what your post says as well. We all hope this change in defense shows us his true potential but I’m starting to worry we are building Gregg double g Williams up too much. 

Yes he’s a good player. Good enough to start on 32 teams in the NFL. I agree that he’s not a game wrecker but there are maybe two DTs in the entire leuage that are... people need to get over his draft position. He’s good enough to be a 10+ year starter... that’s not bad value at 6.

[genot]

10 hours ago, choon328 said:

The excuses for this guy just keep coming. I don't care if Bozo the Clown was the HC. You can't only have 7 sacks the past 2 years and get rewarded with a $14 million salary for 2019. You could take the savings from his contract and Long's and sign the best Guard and Center in FA and completely makeover the offensive line while keeping the same amount of cap space to bring in skill players on offense. Designating $14 million to a guy who has produced so little is a waste.

There are 2 problems with kicking this can till next offseason:

 

1) Next year he gets 6-8 sacks and then is requesting a top of the market deal. 

OR

2) He has a season like this year and he leaves in free agency for nothing when you could've possibly gotten something for him to help the team for the upcoming season.

 

Pro Bowls are nothing but popularity contests and even saying that he was an alternate.  The Pro Bowl means nothing. Being a 1st or 2nd team All-Pro means something (Hello Jamal Adams). Something Leo's never done.

the Jets aren't signing him to a big money deal unless they're are performance clauses written into the deal. If we have to  sign him to a one year prove it deal, with big bucks attached, i think it's worth the risk. Unless your positive we have seen the best out of Leo. I know about the pro bowl being a popularity contest. My point Choon, was he had his best year when Mo was still someone o-line coaches still had to do a little game planning for.

[JustInFudge]

2 threads on the same topic!  Yay! 

[genot]

50 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Most underrated player on this forum. ONE play where it looks like he didn’t give max effort and he’s labeled lazy. Yet when you look at the numbers he played 2x more snaps than outher DLs... yea lazy. He’s a DT playing a 3-4 without an outside rusher. What the eff do you want from him statistically? 

Thank You. well said.

[Drums]

29 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Yes he’s a good player. Good enough to start on 32 teams in the NFL. I agree that he’s not a game wrecker but there are maybe two DTs in the entire leuage that are... people need to get over his draft position. He’s good enough to be a 10+ year starter... that’s not bad value at 6.

Yup, he is simply a good, solid player as of right now. The problem, and this goes for life as well, is expectations. Manage your expectations and you'll never be disappointed. Since we have been in dire need of a game wrecker, those expectations were put on Leo and just the same, they'll be put on the guy we take at 3 if it's on defense; hence some disappointment. 

With that said, how much do you think Leo is worth? I don't think he's worth 14 million in a season and I've never really been one to complain much about how the Jets spend some rich guy's money when we have cap space. I wouldn't trade him and I'd bite the bullet for one season if I had to but I wouldn't pay him 14 mil per season if he was extended.

[#27TheDominator]

This could all be true, but if I were planning to trade him this is exactly what I would say. 

[BurnleyJet]

I still think he's available for a 2nd. I do know he won't dare slack off like he did in 2018 with Greg Williams.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

1 hour ago, nico002 said:

Most underrated player on this forum. ONE play where it looks like he didn’t give max effort and he’s labeled lazy. Yet when you look at the numbers he played 2x more snaps than outher DLs... yea lazy. He’s a DT playing a 3-4 without an outside rusher. What the eff do you want from him statistically? 

Sorry my friend,  I wish it were only one play.  I've had this feeling about Leo for two and a half years. The numbers are an indication of the problem.  With 2x the number of snaps that Henry Anderson got, he should have had superior numbers.  Strikingly, they were nearly identical.  As far as lacking an outside rush, you have a point, but that's not the whole story.  For a DT he has also been subpar against the run.  Far too many times he gets beaten  to the inside ,and is too easily turned and sealed off from the run for a man of his "size and strength".  What I'd like from him is 12+ sacks, and to develop into the "leader" he portends to be.  Is that too much to ask?  Regards.

[Fantasy Island]

29 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

I still think he's available for a 2nd. I do know he won't dare slack off like he did in 2018 with Greg Williams.

You can't teach "want to".  We need to trade him for a 2nd round pick and get this right.  But, we kept Mac, so that goes out the window.  We will extend him for say 6 years/96mil.

[GaryM]

I would be ok if they resign him to a contract that is reasonable. To mention him in the same light as Darnold is absolutely ludicrous. He is a slightly above average player who I believe has motivation issues.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Leonard Williams   #92 DE

New York Jets | Official Team Site

Height: 6-5   Weight: 302   Age: 24

Born: 6/20/1994 Bakersfield , CA

College: USC

Experience: 4th season

High School: Mainland HS [Daytona Beach, FL

Defensive
			Tackles					Interceptions
Year	Team	G	Comb	Total	Ast	Sck	SFTY	PDef	Int	TDs	Yds	Avg	Lng
2018	New York Jets	16	42	27	15	5.0	--	2	--	--	--	0.0	--
2017	New York Jets	16	47	22	25	2.0	--	1	1	0	6	6.0	6
2016	New York Jets	16	68	36	32	7.0	--	0	--	--	--	0.0	--
2015	New York Jets	16	63	29	34	3.0	--	0	--	--	--	0.0	--
TOTAL		64	220	114	106	17.0	0	3	1	0	6	--

Aaron Donald   #99 DE

Los Angeles Rams | Official Team Site

Height: 6-1   Weight: 280   Age: 27

Born: 5/23/1991 Pittsburgh , PA

College: Pittsburgh

Experience: 5th season

High School: Penn Hills [Pittsburgh, Pa

Defensive
			Tackles					Interceptions
Year	Team	G	Comb	Total	Ast	Sck	SFTY	PDef	Int	TDs	Yds	Avg	Lng
2018	Los Angeles Rams	16	59	41	18	20.5	--	1	--	--	--	0.0	--
2017	Los Angeles Rams	14	41	32	9	11.0	--	1	--	--	--	0.0	--
2016	Los Angeles Rams	16	47	35	12	8.0	--	5	--	--	--	0.0	--
2015	St. Louis Rams	16	69	43	26	11.0	--	1	--	--	--	0.0	--
2014	St. Louis Rams	16	48	38	10	9.0	--	1	--	--	--	0.0	--
TOTAL		78	264	189	75	59.5	0	9	0	0	0	--	0

[jeremy2020]

Good move, he'll probably have a great season. Of course, then they'll sign him to a large deal and he'll go back to sucking.

[MaxAF]

I think we will see a more successful Williams this year. He got doubled many times last year. He was probably one of the best D-Linemen the Jets had. New coach, new scheme.... I’m willing to wait and see one more year. 

[#27TheDominator]

13 minutes ago, MaxAF said:

I think we will see a more successful Williams this year. He got doubled many times last year. He was probably one of the best D-Linemen the Jets had. New coach, new scheme.... I’m willing to wait and see one more year. 

Better than McClendon, and Shepherd, you say?   I am hopeful too, but at $14M I can totally understand going in another direction, especially if they can get something decent back.  

[playtowinthegame]

20 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Why would he accept a mid-season deal?  As protection against injury halfway through the year?  If you want value, you have to extend the player earlier.  Now, we're looking at giving him a huge deal if he plays reasonably well or better, or letting him go.

And no one is trading for this player heading into his contract year, unless they want to give him a contract based on past performance, which, who would do that?

You asked a question then you basically answered it for yourself in the same sentence posed to me as a question. Smart teams try to negotiate an extension with players they consider part of their future during the season before they can enter free agency. Next season should the Jets front office and coaching staff like the way Leonard Williams is playing and see him as part of their future then of course they should approach his agent and start negotiations with Leonard Williams agent. Doesn't guarantee they get an extension done before the season ends, but players almost always want the security of a contract extension early rather than later. Waiting until the off-season is a gamble for both parties involved. You never know when an injury happens, and when it does it could cost you a lot of money. On the flip side the Jets don't want to get in a bidding war, or have to go through franchise tagging a player year after year again. Identify the players you want as part of your future and get deals done early. Bottom line, you have a conversation with his agent if you like what you see next season. 

[Jet Nut]

20 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

What does that have to do with him being worth a first round pick right now?   

Everything? 

[Philc1]

I prefer the nickname Macagnanish

[Sperm Edwards]

On 2/5/2019 at 11:35 AM, playtowinthegame said:

Manish Maccagnan

rofl

[ZachEY]

2 hours ago, playtowinthegame said:

You asked a question then you basically answered it for yourself in the same sentence posed to me as a question. Smart teams try to negotiate an extension with players they consider part of their future during the season before they can enter free agency. Next season should the Jets front office and coaching staff like the way Leonard Williams is playing and see him as part of their future then of course they should approach his agent and start negotiations with Leonard Williams agent. Doesn't guarantee they get an extension done before the season ends, but players almost always want the security of a contract extension early rather than later. Waiting until the off-season is a gamble for both parties involved. You never know when an injury happens, and when it does it could cost you a lot of money. On the flip side the Jets don't want to get in a bidding war, or have to go through franchise tagging a player year after year again. Identify the players you want as part of your future and get deals done early. Bottom line, you have a conversation with his agent if you like what you see next season. 

Smart is usually to do it well before this time.  Now, you're only doing it to hope Leo doesn't want to gamble his health, but frankly, at mid-season, I think he may just wait it out, rather than taking a team friendly deal.  That's the point of my comment, not that it's not smart for the Jets do offer him a deal early, nor that it's not smart for him to take it early to prevent against injury, but frankly, that mid-season in his last year may be too late to benefit from "early."

[varjet]

The Jets needs to make sure that the franchise tag is available for Williams next year.

If he plays well in the new scheme, they should negotiate a fair extension mid-season with hopefully some incentives built in.  

Williams choice would be to play out the season and risk injury (see Mo's broken leg) and/or the franchise tag, or take sizeable guaranteed money mid-2019.  

[BurnleyJet]

I just don't get the love for this guy. Being the 6# overall pick he's not performed near that investment.

The guy can't beat single teams, let alone double teams. He was out performed my Anderson who cost us a 7th round pick.

We play him in the 3 technique, and all of a sudden he's John Randle?

Plus we have to pay this slug 14 mill, just for his 5th year option, for 2 to 7 sacks and between 42 & 63 tackles. 

GTFO He's replaceable with a much cheaper option.