Would you guys lose your sh*t if Macc traded back to 15?

[MDL_JET]

24 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’m not sure I understand the fascination with Hockenson around here. Herndon is pretty solid, and Enunwa and Crowder do all of their work underneath besides. Hockenson isn’t a Gronkowski-type prospect in terms of size or athleticism, so I don’t get why he’s reached this mythological status among Jets fans all of a sudden.

He’s just a damn good overall TE. Can block really well on top of how good he catches. Think he compares to Witten. Adding another guy like that could never hurt. But I would rather take someone like that at the 15-20 range. 

[section314]

27 minutes ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

Why can't we trade down twice? What's to say that we're making one big blockbuster trade for picks? As I have stated I believe this is going to be one of our busiest drafts in recent memory. I think we'll be moving around a lot and trading picks and players.

In my "perfect" scenario, that's what we would do. Murray, Bosa go 1&2. Tampa trades up from #5, and gives us their 2nd,39, I think and takes Q. Williams. Raiders stay put and take anything but a QB. Then , with us at 5, a QB needy team trades up to get in front of Giants, just in case they feel Gettleman is bluffing. Could be anywhere from Denver#10 down to Wash.#15. We could pick up 2#2's, a 3, and could really bring in a ton of talent. it's nice to dream, right??

[mphtrilogy]

If we get 4 picks I’m good with it... then take the center...

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

He’s just a damn good overall TE. Can block really well on top of how good he catches. Think he compares to Witten. Adding another guy like that could never hurt. But I would rather take someone like that at the 15-20 range. 

Think about how many big, white stiffs have been compared to Witten and Gronk and think of how many have come close to that level: zero. Hayden Hurst, Hunter Henry, Jace Amaro, Maxx Williams, Tyler Eifert, Coby Fleener, Kyle Rudolph, etc etc. it’s almost high comedy at this point 

[GreenFish]

I’m not buying any of these guys at the top of the draft are going to be anything more than good players. Drop back to 15 and get a similar player while adding 2 additional day 2 picks plus a pick in 2020. Do it.

I would be excited with either 2nd rd and 3rd plus 2020 2nd and 3rd (or 2020 1st). 

This is a volume draft. The guys at the top are marginally better then the guys you can get at 15. 

[GreenFish]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Think about how many big, white stiffs have been compared to Witten and Gronk and think of how many have come close to that level: zero. Hayden Hurst, Hunter Henry, Jace Amaro, Maxx Williams, Tyler Eifert, Coby Fleener, Kyle Rudolph, etc etc. it’s almost high comedy at this point 

TEs in the first is fools gold. They always seem to underperform. Eric Ebron. Good player. No second contract. The guy from SF. Forgetting his name. Keller. On and on.

TEs hit in the first like once a decade. Maybe.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, GreenFish said:

TEs in the first is fools gold. They always seem to underperform. Eric Ebron. Good player. No second contract. The guy from SF. Forgetting his name. Keller. On and on.

Add the guy Tampa drafted from Alabama to the list.  Though isn't the SF TE a great player?

[Wonderboy]

2 hours ago, Jetster said:

Obviously he'd have to take less than what these stupid charts demand but let's just say it includes a 2 & 3 and picks in next years draft. Go to any Mock Draft & you will find 6-7 players you'd be happy with at 15. Plus we could target a Center at #2 and could own the 3rd with three picks including that very high 3rd.

Players that might be at 15 could be DK Metcalf, Andre Dillard, Rashan Gary, Chris Lindstrom, Brian Burns, Devin Bush, Jaylon Ferguson, Erik McCoy, Deandre Baker, Clelin Ferrell, Dexter Lawrence, Byron Murphy, Cody Ford, Garrett Bradbury, Noah Fant, Jeffery Simmons, AJ Brown.

Obviously, no one knows who will be available but this list gives you a good idea. When I look at this list, I would trade back AGAIN for more draft picks including setting us up beautifully in 2020. We have our QB, what's wrong with getting Brian Burns at 15 & trading back up for Garrett Bradbury? Would you be pumped heading into the 2nd round with Burns & Bradbury? And still have 2 third rounders including our high 3rd? 

I would rather start the draft like that instead of just one player at #3 of Allen, Bosa or QW. After the 1st we could have an edge rusher & a 10 year Center for Darnold with a 2nd & 2 or 3 thirds to come. It would be a Belichick type move that in this deep draft could propel the Jets into a contender. 

We’re definitely bereft of young talent on the OL, CB and Edge. Trading back twice would bring in a huge haul of picks which this team desperately requires. But then we have Macc’s ineptitude of evaluating talent. If I’m Macc, given his lousy, horrible picks, I’d trade the  1st rounder. Let’s say we get the 15th pick and two 2’s. Systematically, keep trading back all the way back until we have 12 picks in rounds 4,5,6. Macc just can’t be trusted with Golden picks in the early rounds. ??‍♂️

[Long Island Leprechaun]

56 minutes ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

Why can't we trade down twice? What's to say that we're making one big blockbuster trade for picks? As I have stated I believe this is going to be one of our busiest drafts in recent memory. I think we'll be moving around a lot and trading picks and players.

I was thinking the same thing. It's doesn't have to be all or nothing.

[GreenFish]

6 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Add the guy Tampa drafted from Alabama to the list.  Though isn't the SF TE a great player?

I was thinking of Vernon Davis for the 49ers. Looked up his stats. He had a couple of good years in there. Better career than I thought. But at #6. 

[slats]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Next year’s first round picks are going to be more valuable than picks in this first round because there are only three really good players in this first round. In fact, the savvy/ballsy/genius move is to trade down in exchange for a first in 2021, which will be the Trevor Lawrence draft, when half the teams in the league will be flagrantly tanking games. 

My first thought when I saw this thread was that I'd need a first rounder in 2020 to move down that far but, if Mac takes a deal that includes a first rounder next year, that would tell me that Mac feels very safe. If he accepted a deal that included a 2021 pick, then he'd be feeling way too safe. 

[Matt39]

43 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Think about how many big, white stiffs have been compared to Witten and Gronk and think of how many have come close to that level: zero. Hayden Hurst, Hunter Henry, Jace Amaro, Maxx Williams, Tyler Eifert, Coby Fleener, Kyle Rudolph, etc etc. it’s almost high comedy at this point 

Kelce, Ertz, Kittle tho

[BornJetsFan1983]

3 hours ago, Jetster said:

Obviously he'd have to take less than what these stupid charts demand but let's just say it includes a 2 & 3 and picks in next years draft. Go to any Mock Draft & you will find 6-7 players you'd be happy with at 15. Plus we could target a Center at #2 and could own the 3rd with three picks including that very high 3rd.

Players that might be at 15 could be DK Metcalf, Andre Dillard, Rashan Gary, Chris Lindstrom, Brian Burns, Devin Bush, Jaylon Ferguson, Erik McCoy, Deandre Baker, Clelin Ferrell, Dexter Lawrence, Byron Murphy, Cody Ford, Garrett Bradbury, Noah Fant, Jeffery Simmons, AJ Brown.

Obviously, no one knows who will be available but this list gives you a good idea. When I look at this list, I would trade back AGAIN for more draft picks including setting us up beautifully in 2020. We have our QB, what's wrong with getting Brian Burns at 15 & trading back up for Garrett Bradbury? Would you be pumped heading into the 2nd round with Burns & Bradbury? And still have 2 third rounders including our high 3rd? 

I would rather start the draft like that instead of just one player at #3 of Allen, Bosa or QW. After the 1st we could have an edge rusher & a 10 year Center for Darnold with a 2nd & 2 or 3 thirds to come. It would be a Belichick type move that in this deep draft could propel the Jets into a contender. 

I can't understand this. No trade is possible without a 1 this yeah and next plus a 2 ... This is a minimum...

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

I’m not sure I understand the fascination with Hockenson around here. 

 

41 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

big, white stiffs

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, slats said:

My first thought when I saw this thread was that I'd need a first rounder in 2020 to move down that far but, if Mac takes a deal that includes a first rounder next year, that would tell me that Mac feels very safe. If he accepted a deal that included a 2021 pick, then he'd be feeling way too safe. 

Or, if you’re of the conspiratorial mind and you also believe the Breer/Cimini coverage of the Darnold trade, you could surmise that Heimerdinger does the actual legwork on inter-team negotiations and Macc ultimately signs off on them. I’m half-kidding when I say that Heimerdinger is going to stage a coup, but he’s realistically the best hope we have for any sort of regime change. If/when Macc is fired, where else can the Jets look for a GM—especially with Gase already here? 

[Peace Frog]

Thread title is confusing to say the least and likely schizophrenic. 

[bigalbarracuda]

I would absolutely trade down to #15. I know others feel differently but I just don't believe there is thaaat much that separates Bosa, QW and Allen over Ferrell, Sweat, Burns, Bush, Oliver, and Gary. I'm praying someone like the Bucs falls in love with QW and gives us a haul.

Having a second #1 in 2020 would be amazing. Tua, Herbert, and Fromm are very likely to go high and that could push a top OT (Walker Little is my guy) or WR (Jeudy) down. Obviously a lot can change but I like how that draft is shaping up for the Jets needs and I would love to see some long range planning to that effect.

 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Kelce, Ertz, Kittle tho

Word. Kelce was a third rounder and Kittle was a fifth and both were athletic studs. Ertz is a best-case for Hockenson, though, so that’s one 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Word. Kelce was a third rounder and Kittle was a fifth and both were athletic studs. Ertz is a best-case for Hockenson, though, so that’s one 

Id rather the other Iowa guy anyways if this is the rationale.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Id rather the other Iowa guy anyways if this is the rationale.

I forgot who mentioned it earlier, but someone on here pointed out that Fant is the real complement to what Herndon does and that Hockenson would be redundant. 

[kdels62]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

1. Next year’s first round picks are going to be more valuable than picks in this first round because there are only three really good players in this first round. In fact, the savvy/ballsy/genius move is to trade down in exchange for a first in 2021, which will be the Trevor Lawrence draft, when half the teams in the league will be flagrantly tanking games. 

I’m gonna just avoid the rest of your rant, which was a great rant but it doesn’t mean much to me. This is the kind of forward thinking move that could make sense. Everyone is now in the pre-draft phase where people think this draft can fix everything and getting “a starter in round 4” starts to clouds everyone’s minds. However, the real genius and dangerous move would to trade back for picks next year where everything is more value because picks 1-3 are gonna be QBs. Even crazier trade back and get the 2021 pick and next year trade back for more and another 2021 pick and make a move for Trevor Lawrence and trade (soon to get a second contract) Darnold for picks. 

Thats the kinda crazy that could get a team Trevor Lawrence and Sam Darnold for cheap plus draft capital. 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Yes, I’m clearly misinterpreting the grand genius of Macc’s vision. Thx

Never said Macc was a genius, or even that he did a good job so far. Thanks.

[JetFaninMI]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Yes, I’m clearly misinterpreting the grand genius of Macc’s vision. Thx

The grand genius of Macc's vision? Oxymoron if I ever heard one.

[jack48]

15 kind of blows

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Trading back to 15 with the Redskins is the ideal landing spot IMO. We can easily target an offensive lineman there and the Redskins are likely to give us a haul.

Been thinking the same. I’m actually curious if there are any quality vets whose contracts make sense for skins to move, and jets to take on.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

I will lose lose my sh*t if the Jets do not draft OL in the first two days of the draft

[slimjasi]

It all depends on what we get in return. 

If the price is right, the price is right. 

I tend to think it is unlikely we will move that far back. 

[JetFaninMI]

I want them to trade the pick so I wouldn't lose my sh*t unless Macc screwed the pooch on the deal. A real possibility but if it does happen hopefully Heimerdinger makes the deal like he did with Darnold.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Been thinking the same. I’m actually curious if there are any quality vets whose contracts make sense for skins to move, and jets to take on.

Kerrigan 

[RSJ]

I have nothing against trading back. But trading back for Iowa's version of Kyle Brady in this draft is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard.

[genot]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Kerrigan 

Jonathon Allen!!!If the Skins are hard up for a QB, that's who i'd ask for.

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I’m not sure I understand the fascination with Hockenson around here. Herndon is pretty solid, and Enunwa and Crowder do all of their work underneath besides. Hockenson isn’t a Gronkowski-type prospect in terms of size or athleticism, so I don’t get why he’s reached this mythological status among Jets fans all of a sudden.

I'm not fascinated nor would I describe him as mythical. 

He is regarded as the best pass-catching and blocking TE prospect in this class, has been evaluated to be an upper-mid 1st round graded talent and likely the first TE taken, and would provide a valuable weapon for Darnold's ongoing development.  Picks 12-15 is an appropriate place to select him, according to experts who know far more than I do about these prospects:

Quote

 

Draft Scouting Report:

6'5", 251 pounds.  Young, dynamic pass-catching option with the athleticism and speed to threaten the seam and make catches well outside his frame. Immense leg churn as a blocker and very accurate finding linebackers in space. Probably needs to add more strength at the next level to control defensive ends at the point of attack, but is arguably the most exciting, new-age tight end to enter the league over the past few drafts. -- CT

 

Herndon is not "solid" yet.  He is a 2nd year player who showed flashes of potential in 2018 with 39 catches and ~500 yards, and I look forward to hopefully seeing more from him.  I like what I saw from him quite a bit.  However, he alone does not lock down the position of TE on an modern NFL team, and a desire/interest to supplement him with more talent is not a criticism of him, but is a larger view of how to build a modern NFL Offense.  We need more weapons, in my view.

Enunwa is unreliable.  In his 5 NFL seasons he has played 16 games only once, in his one "good" year of 2016.  Since then he has lost an entire season, and a portion of another due to repeated injuries.  Like Herndon, Enunwa is more about potential than actual results to-date. 

Crowder is indeed a slot WR who can/does work underneath, and should be a good addition.  He is not the seam running option and mismatch a quality pass-catching TE would be in our system.  A potential Hockenson complements a Crowder and a Herndon and a Bell, he does not take away from them.  

As I said, I'm less interested in specific players, and more interested in overall team-building priorities and design.  Hockenson is an option appropriate to the OP scenario of a trade-down, and meets my criteria for focus on Offense, scoring, and providing maximum options to both Darnold and Bell underneath.  He provides additional support should Enunwa get hurt again, and helps bolster a lower-end-of-league group of WR's as an additional weapon, a mismatch vs. linebackers at that.

I would also be more than amenable to drafting a Tackle/Guard at ~#15, or a WR if one is sufficiently well regarded at that spot, etc.  I simply prefer to provide more weapons, modern weapons (like seam busting TE's), to help Darnold vs. drafting another Defensive Lineman/player.

 

[Lupz27]

I’d need 3 first rounders and a 2nd

[Smashmouth]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

I could be pleased with a theoretical trade back that would give the Jets the opportunity to avoid drafting "edge" at #3, and would provide us with multiple picks we could use (without so much criticism) to draft more vital pieces on offense.

For example, if we trade to #15, we could possibly get:

#15 - T.J. Hockenson, Iowa, TE.  A potentially massive pass-catching weapon for Darnold, and something we still need given the overall weakness of our WR corps (out top 3 are in the bottom half on the NFL talent wise).  This pick would make me feel much better about our offense's weapons going forward.

2nd Round - Acquired as part of trade down, Garrett Bradbury, NC State, Center.  A vital need IMO, and a very solid choice to potentially fill that need for the next decade.

3rd Round - We'd have 2-3 picks here, and I could envision an EDGE prospect, a CB and another O-Lineman here.

If we walked away from this draft with that, I think I'd be happy.  Our offense would be much improved, I'd feel much better about protecting Darnold, and the weapons we'd provide him, and as I've said, I simply think it's time for NY Jets mentality to change now under Darnold, to put Offense > Defense for really the first time in 30 years, to stack that O with all the talent we can, and really build behind Darnold to best support his chance to succeed.

My dream is to see our Jets show a truly modern, high-powered, high-scoring NFL offense that can and regularly does shoot-out it's opponents offensively.  I'd rather win games in 2019 41-38 than lose them (as we have for years) 17-9.

I respect that others do not share this opinion, and prefer to continue our longstanding focus of defense above all else and chasing the dragon on elite edge.  As I said the other day, I control none of this, so I refuse to invest emotionally in it.  We will pick who we pick.  The above is simply my preference.

At the end of the day, I do not believe there will be a trade down, and I believe we will draft a DL or EDGE player.  I just hope it's not like the last 5-6 high 1st round picks on the DL/EDGE we've made, none of whom worked out here.

 

Top 3 In bottom half of the NFL ? All we lack is a true number 1 WR. We have one of the better slot guys (Crowder) we also have Ty Montgomery (slot, RB, TE,WR ) who can play virtually every position on Offense. We also have arguably the best receiving RB in the NFL and an emerging TE in Herndon.

Enunwa's only problem, and it's a big one, is staying healthy and knowing when to go down after being wrapped up by 4 players. Also while I don't think much of Anderson he is our guy to take the top off of defenses so we have a well balanced group that basically needs to put up or shut up this year. 

If Darnold is what we think he is He has a very well balanced attack that will only get better with time on Darnolds side and adding that elusive number 1 WR.

All around and just because Bell now exists in our offense we may very well be a top 15 or better with a number 1 WR easily top 10

[JoJoTownsell1]

2 hours ago, derp said:

I assume Macc gets fleeced in this theoretical deal but if he can pull the Redskins’ 2020 first rounder and a day 2 pick this year I could deal. Anything less than that would be tough to swallow.

Like when he traded Richardson for a 2nd or when he traded for our franchise QB?

Macc has made very good trades.. It's his draft picks that are a problem.