Keep An Eye On The Saints

[BettyBoop]

The Saints are in the worst cap shape in 2021 that I have ever seen.  Currently they are $92mm OVER the cap.  They will need to let go of half their team to be even close to the cap.  Guys I would keep an eye are Marshon Lattimore (CB) and Nick Easton (LG).

[T0mShane]

Man I hope joe douglas reads this and chooses to keep an eye on the saints

[32EBoozer]

7 minutes ago, BettyBoop said:

The Saints are in the worst cap shape in 2021 that I have ever seen.  Currently they are $92mm OVER the cap.  They will need to let go of half their team to be even close to the cap.  Guys I would keep an eye are Marshon Lattimore (CB) and Nick Easton (LG).

Michael Thomas! Offer the Seattle pick?

[joewilly12]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Man I hope joe douglas reads this and chooses to keep an eye on the saints

@JD there I pinged him. 

[BettyBoop]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Man I hope joe douglas reads this and chooses to keep an eye on the saints

I’ve spoken to him and he is aware.

[choon328]

This is where those extra late round picks in 2022 come into play. 

[nycdan]

For anyone who isn't familiar with overthecap.com, here is an excellent source for all of this data: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-orleans-saints/

Click on the 2021 tab to see the cap for that season.  Another guy I'm intrigued by is Ryan Ramczyk.  Would completely solve our RT issue and it's very possible the Saints can't afford to keep him and his $11M cap hit in 2021.

Shout out to Jason for keeping this incredibly useful resource up to date!

[Sarge4Tide]

I pray to Saint Jude every Sunday during football season for a miracle

[Greenseed4]

32 minutes ago, BettyBoop said:

The Saints are in the worst cap shape in 2021 that I have ever seen.  Currently they are $92mm OVER the cap. 

It’s closer to $94.5M which is gross mismanagement. 

[Defense Wins Championships]

34 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Michael Thomas! Offer the Seattle pick?

Fk no. He'll be 28 come next season and is an absolute nut case. 

Awesome pass catching weapons such as Kyle Pitts of Florida, Terrace Marshall Jr of LSU and Rondale Moore of Purdue could be available with Seattle's pick and I absolutely love all three of these kids. 

And instead of trading a valuable 1st round pick for a soon to be 28 year old WR in Thomas you could easily pursue Allen Robinson or JuJu as a FA WR. 

Trading away Seattle's pick is absurd. 

[JXN_JET]

4 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

It’s closer to $94.5M which is gross mismanagement. 

Yea, its going to be very difficult to get under the cap and still field a team. They probably gonna have at least 40-50 million in dead money next year I would think. Its crazy considering how to post season has played out for them over the last couple of seasons.

[oatmeal]

7 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

It’s closer to $94.5M which is gross mismanagement. 

That’s the real “we went all in” not like the lying Pats type 

[TuscanyTile2]

56 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Man I hope joe douglas reads this and chooses to keep an eye on the saints

Hopefully Joe Douglas is keeping his eyes on what's going on around the league like the "Football Man in Florham Park" always does.

[LIJetsFan]

Under the heading of not counting your chickens before they're hatched, don't put it past the League to offer some sort of cap relief package/deal to teams in need.  

[EM31]

Just because other teams have spent like drunken sailors and got themselves into trouble does not mean that we should necessarily head off down the same path.

Certainly JD should pick over any available options here if it gets to that but we should be looking for fire-sale bargains IMO and not so much the splashy headliners

[JTJet]

38 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Fk no. He'll be 28 come next season and is an absolute nut case

Can anyone show me anything other than the incident this year to indicate Thomas is a nut case? 

Genuinely interested. 

[Scott Dierking]

5 minutes ago, JTJet said:

Can anyone show me anything other than the incident this year to indicate Thomas is a nut case? 

Genuinely interested. 

Chose to go to school at Ohio State?

[JTJet]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Chose to go to school at Ohio State?

I lived in Ohio for one calendar year. I wouldnt wish it on my worst enemies. 

[Adoni Beast]

The Saints have been all in the last few seasons to win 1 more title before Brees bows out and retires.

These are typically the results when a team goes for broke and there will be a lot of players that shake loose. 
 

I think there are 3 big questions relating to NOLA after 2020:

1. Is Brees retiring?

2. If so, Who will the next QB be?

3. If it’s not someone he wants or in position to draft someone he wants...Does Sean Payton force his way out?

 

[JustInFudge]

Sweet!  Sign Jameis Winston long term.  Trade the #1 overall for picks galore, stack up the team with young badass mofo's and Super Bowl here we come!!!!

[nycdan]

37 minutes ago, EM31 said:

Just because other teams have spent like drunken sailors and got themselves into trouble does not mean that we should necessarily head off down the same path.

Certainly JD should pick over any available options here if it gets to that but we should be looking for fire-sale bargains IMO and not so much the splashy headliners

Assuming Ramczyk is looking at Conklin money, which is about $14MM/year, do you go for that?  We've talked about Thuney and Scherff but it might be easier to draft a really good OG than a really good RT.  Maybe create the bookend tackles and fill in the interior of the line with young, cheap players.  

But then again, here's Jason's take on how the Saints can approach next season and it doesn't lead to Lattimore or Ramczyk being free, but does have them outright cutting Easton.  https://overthecap.com/navigating-the-saints-2021-salary-cap-situation/

 

[heymangold]

Darnold for Thomas straight up

[jetscrazey]

Saints went all-in and this is the last year of their window....I totally agree they should let go of some good players

[Jet Nut]

6 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Fk no. He'll be 28 come next season and is an absolute nut case. 

Awesome pass catching weapons such as Kyle Pitts of Florida, Terrace Marshall Jr of LSU and Rondale Moore of Purdue could be available with Seattle's pick and I absolutely love all three of these kids. 

And instead of trading a valuable 1st round pick for a soon to be 28 year old WR in Thomas you could easily pursue Allen Robinson or JuJu as a FA WR. 

Trading away Seattle's pick is absurd. 

And at the end of the day youre left praying to god that Kyle Pitts, Terrace Marshall Jr or Rondale Moore are anywhere near as good as Michael Thomas.  So theres that.  

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, EM31 said:

Just because other teams have spent like drunken sailors and got themselves into trouble does not mean that we should necessarily head off down the same path.

Certainly JD should pick over any available options here if it gets to that but we should be looking for fire-sale bargains IMO and not so much the splashy headliners

+1000

I thought that was the whole point of selling off players for picks.  To get good young talent but still be able to manage a hard cap.  The cap space should be used to supplement the draft picks.  

I dont want a team that gets into contention and then has to. be broken up due to cap constraints 

[jgb]

It's amazing though how the reports of teams horrifically over the cap rarely turn into complete tear downs in one year -- tear downs are usually because a team sucks, not because of the cap. Fact is the cap is pretty flexible. Restructuring, extending, etc. A lot more can be done than just cutting/trading players with an aggregate 2021 salary of $92M. In Saints situation though it could be seen as a perfect season to deliberately take as much pain as possible if indeed Brees retires -- and if he does, that's $36M in relief right there.

[jeremy2020]

I have a feeling there is some deal done in the offseason between the NFL and NFLPA that mitigates some of the issues with the cap. I don't think it's going to be as bad as it looks for teams with the reduced cap. 

[Paradis]

Demario, rnd 3

[Defense Wins Championships]

50 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And at the end of the day youre left praying to god that Kyle Pitts, Terrace Marshall Jr or Rondale Moore are anywhere near as good as Thomas.  So theres that.  

I disagree. I'd rather sign a 22-23 years of age JuJu and draft a Pitts/Moore/Marshall Jr. over giving up a 1st for a soon to be 28 year old WR in Thomas ala giving potentially Trevor Lawrence more weapons on offense. 

Or also splashing on about the same age absolute monster in Allen Robinson (who's never had the advantage and luxury of a HOF Drew Brees throughout his entire career) while still drafting a Pitts/Moore/Marshall Jr ala giving Trevor Lawrence more weapons on offense. 

QB: Trevor Lawrence. 

LT: Mekhi Becton. 

WR1: Allen Robinson/JuJu. 

Slot: Jamison Crowder. 

TE: Kyle Pitts. 

WR2: Denzel Mims. 

RB1: Najee Harris. 

That's just one example but I'm sorry JD doesn't have to trade a premium 1st for a WR when he can potentially build an awesome offense around Trevor by splashing on a FA WR with all of our available A+ cap space before striking during the draft. 

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

It's amazing though how the reports of teams horrifically over the cap rarely turn into complete tear downs in one year -- tear downs are usually because a team sucks, not because of the cap. Fact is the cap is pretty flexible. Restructuring, extending, etc. A lot more can be done than just cutting/trading players with an aggregate 2021 salary of $92M. In Saints situation though it could be seen as a perfect season to deliberately take as much pain as possible if indeed Brees retires -- and if he does, that's $36M in relief right there.

Nope.  Brees would save them$13.5M with the rest being dead money.

[slimjasi]

Forget Lattimore, can we have their coach? 

[drsamuel84]

I said this is another thread, but what about Sean Payton?  Will he want to stick around for a rebuild?  Not likely he will be available but you never know.

[nycdan]

48 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

I have a feeling there is some deal done in the offseason between the NFL and NFLPA that mitigates some of the issues with the cap. I don't think it's going to be as bad as it looks for teams with the reduced cap. 

Seems impossible they won't but I cannot fathom what the NFLPA would realistically be willing to give up in order to get the owners to prop up the cap above what the CBA indicates.  That's money straight out of their pockets and they won't give it up for free.  The NFLPA can be equally stubborn but there is an opportunity for the owners to get something else they want (18-game season?) at this critical juncture.  

 

[32EBoozer]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

It's amazing though how the reports of teams horrifically over the cap rarely turn into complete tear downs in one year -- tear downs are usually because a team sucks, not because of the cap. Fact is the cap is pretty flexible. Restructuring, extending, etc. A lot more can be done than just cutting/trading players with an aggregate 2021 salary of $92M. In Saints situation though it could be seen as a perfect season to deliberately take as much pain as possible if indeed Brees retires -- and if he does, that's $36M in relief right there.

From Jason@Over-the-Cap as recommended by @nycdan

A lot of what the Saints will likely do with their roster hinges on the decision of Brees. Brees currently counts for $36.15 million on the Saints salary cap which clearly can’t happen if they want to comply with the cap. If he retires the team will pick up $13.5 million in cap space while carrying $22.65 million in dead money, but I think the Saints can get creative here to work with this contract.

If Brees is 100% certain he is going to retire the Saints can reduce his salary to the league minimum of $1.075 million. That would allow the Saints to drop his salary cap number from $36.15 million to $12.2225 million a savings of $23.925 million. The team would have to carry Brees as an active player until June 2^nd at which point they would officially place him on the retired list and receive the June 1 cap benefit. Rather than taking on $22.65 million in dead money in 2021 the team would only have an $11.15 million charge for Brees in 2021 and $11.5 million in 2022.

What if Brees is not sure he wants to retire and acts a bit like Brett Favre at the end of his career? One option is to add more void years to the contract, reduce his salary as above, and convert the $23.925 million to an option bonus that is due after the first game of the season. Under that type of contract Brees would count for $17.01 million, a savings of $19.14 million. If Brees does decide to retire the team would get the same savings as in the first scenario since the option would never be exercised. If he plays then you have a lot more dead money to deal with in 2022 but that is the price of Brees returning.

If Brees is 100% certain that he will return again you have a few options. The basic one would mimic the $19.14 million in savings I just mentioned using a basic conversion. The second one would see him actually extend his contract into 2022 (2022 is currently a void year) with a guaranteed roster bonus due on the first day of the league year. They should be able to make this not subject to any forfeiture such that he can earn it and then retire, ala Andrew Luck. Doing this allows them to bring that cap number down to the $12.2225 million number and get the best of all worlds. Brees would have to also be willing to modify his contract like this. You could also do a similar contract in the Favre scenario if he is agreeable.

After thinking about it for a bit I think no matter what the Saints probably need to turn 2022 into a real contract year under any scenario in which Brees may play in 2021. Doing this  gives them the capability to do the same trick with the contract I said for 2021 and use the June 1 in 2022 if Brees plays in 2021 and wants to retire in 2022. Since Brees seems happy to play for $25M every year a token $25M base salary should be fair.

In any event I’m confident I can come up with a way to get that $23.925 million in savings here with Brees, so about $70 million over the cap.

[jgb]

31 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Nope.  Brees would save them$13.5M with the rest being dead money.

Thanks, clearly not a cap guy. But thanks for focusing on that and not the overall point to the thread lol. Is it the same though for retired v. cut? If he retires, he pays back the pro rata signing bonus, yes? Why would there be dead money?