So is Quinnen still a bust?

[Defense Wins Championships]

27 minutes ago, JTJet said:

Tell what to who?

As I said, 3rd overall picks are expected to be great from day 1. That's the standard. 

Manning was expected to be great on day 0.  

Sapp wasnt a top 10 pick. 

Revis wasn't a top 10 pick. 

Randle wasnt a top 10 pick. 

Klecko wasnt a top 10 pick. 

Mahomes was the 10th pick. 

Who cares if Sapp/Revis/Mahomes weren't "top 10 picks" because they were 1st round picks. 

Please list me a good 20 (3rd overall picks) who were "greatness" with Pro Bowls and All Pro selection's starting from their Rookie Season...

And do it on Defense too. 

I ask, because I know you can't. 

[Jetsfan4life90]

1 hour ago, JTJet said:

But 3rd overall picks are SUPPOSED to. 

Not always. In the NFL, or in other sports. 

Hell, let's use an example of one of our own, D'Brickashaw Ferguson. 

[JTJet]

13 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Who cares if Sapp/Revis/Mahomes weren't "top 10 picks" because they were 1st round picks. 

Please list me a good 20 (3rd overall picks) who were "greatness" with Pro Bowls and All Pro selection's starting from their Rookie Season...

And do it on Defense too. 

I ask, because I know you can't. 

What are you babbling about this time? I don't care about pro bowls and all pros. 

My statement was that the expectations for a top 3 pick are not the same expectations that picks 4-267 have. That simple. 

Top 3 picks are supposed to step on the field and be great, day 1. That is the universal expectation among teams and fans. 

Whether that happens or not is a completely different story, but that doesnt change the fact that it is the standard. 

[Jetsfan4life90]

1 minute ago, JTJet said:

What are you babbling about this time? I don't care about pro bowls and all pros. 

My statement was that the expectations for a top 3 pick are not the same expectations that picks 4-267 have. That simple. 

Top 3 picks are supposed to step on the field and be great, day 1. That is the universal expectation among teams and fans. 

Whether that happens or not is a completely different story, but that doesnt change the fact that it is the standard. 

No, it's not lol. 

And what exactly is the difference between picks 3 and 4? Pick #4 all of a sudden gets more of a lease than pick #3? Lol

I'd say those fans have way too high of expectations. Yes, you expect greatness from that pick, but it may not happen right off the bat necessarily. 

[JTJet]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

No, it's not lol. 

And what exactly is the difference between picks 3 and 4? Pick #4 all of a sudden gets more of a lease than pick #3? Lol

I'd say those fans have way too high of expectations. Yes, you expect greatness from that pick, but it may not happen right off the bat necessarily. 

You are being far too technical here. Relax and take a breath. Sip on a coke. 

The expectations for higher draft picks are ALWAYS higher than the very next pick after them. 

One is expected to be better than two. Two better than three. Three better than four. Etc etc. 

Kinda the whole point of the draft system bud. 

[Defense Wins Championships]

10 minutes ago, JTJet said:

What are you babbling about this time? I don't care about pro bowls and all pros. 

My statement was that the expectations for a top 3 pick are not the same expectations that picks 4-267 have. That simple. 

Top 3 picks are supposed to step on the field and be great, day 1. That is the universal expectation among teams and fans. 

Whether that happens or not is a completely different story, but that doesnt change the fact that it is the standard. 

Top 3 or first round it doesn't make a difference because all 1st round picks (99.9% of the time) become THEIR TEAMS #1 first pick of the draft and have super high expectations. 

[Jetsfan4life90]

10 minutes ago, JTJet said:

You are being far too technical here. Relax and take a breath. Sip on a coke. 

The expectations for higher draft picks are ALWAYS higher than the very next pick after them. 

One is expected to be better than two. Two better than three. Three better than four. Etc etc. 

Kinda the whole point of the draft system bud. 

The irony, maybe take your own advice with taking a breath and sipping on a coke, lol. 

1st rounders have high expectations in general. But it may not happen year 1. Peyton Manning, as a 1st overall pick, is an example of that. 

[JTJet]

1 minute ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Top 3 or first round it doesn't make a difference because all 1st round picks (99.9% of the time) become THEIR TEAMS #1 first pick of the draft and have super high expectations. 

You're stuck deep in the forest with this argument here. 

It does make a difference. 

Top 3 picks are generally supposed to be no brainer type rookies, absolutely cant miss, start on day one.

Burrow was selected #1 overall and expected to step on the field and save the franchise. 

Young was selected #2 and expected to step on the field and transform Washington's defense. 

The Packers did not select Jordan Love at #26 last year with ANY expectations what so ever to start this year. 

The expectations are FAR different starting at 1 and change the further you go back in the draft. This isn't a world changing concept. 

[Lot K Tailgaters]

I was concerned about some of his penalties earlier this season but he seems to have turned things around.  I saw his postgame interview on SNY and he credited McLendon for helping him.  Him and Hall are two good pieces for the defense.  

[Philc1]

12 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Who should we have drafted?

Jonah, the franchise LT who has played 7 games in 2 years and looked meh

[Philc1]

5 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Q Williams, Fatukasi, Maye, Hall, Davis, CJ Mosley.... suddenly look like a decent potential core going into next year on D.  Other complementary parts like Hewitt, maybe Austin, etc. could still be here.  I think the Jets are still 1 (or 2) edge rushers and another CB away from being a Top 10-12 defense.

I know Hall got s’d on yesterday but he is just a rookie and he did have a couple good passes defended.  I remember Revis getting burned as a rookie. Maybe with more experience and better coaching he can be a decent starting CB

 

Ashtyn Davis looks like Eric Smith/Jim Leonhard 2.0

[heymangold]

8 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

You're acting like he's been with the jets for 5 years and finally figuring it out.

Not all young players come into the league a dominate year 1. Especially those on really bad teams.

but when you're drafted 3rd overall, you're supposed to.  you don't draft a DT 3rd overall in hopes that halfway through his 2nd season he is playable.  

[rangerous]

9 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

No one is saying today.

He was mocked right where he was picked and playing like it.

 

Of course he is.  My point is there are quite a few fans who killed the pick because qwill plays dt and not edge or corner.  It’s as if the team didn’t need a dt or that the position was low priority.  A good dt can change a games outcome. At least he’s one of the very few jets players that the other team has to account for.

[bla bla bla]

15 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Seriously.  At what point did the entire NFL decide that defensive teams need to celebrate by all running to the end zone and stylin'?  The NFL used to be the "No Fun League" but that was when the celebrations actually had something to them.  Now it's just a boring ritual.

There is a demographic of individual that believes these players should just "do their jobs" and "back in my day it was all about the game". Would have been cool to see where guys could have taken celebrations if we had embraced the Steve Smith's/Chad Johnson's/Joe Horn's/Randy Moss's

[Dunnie]

Of course he is.  My point is there are quite a few fans who killed the pick because qwill plays dt and not edge or corner.  It’s as if the team didn’t need a dt or that the position was low priority.  A good dt can change a games outcome. At least he’s one of the very few jets players that the other team has to account for.

Reminds me of a safety we once had. ... yes this is a snarky joke ... Mostly.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app

[jgb]

59 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

There is a demographic of individual that believes these players should just "do their jobs" and "back in my day it was all about the game". Would have been cool to see where guys could have taken celebrations if we had embraced the Steve Smith's/Chad Johnson's/Joe Horn's/Randy Moss's

Plenty of fans also think a player wanting to get a pay raise is Mussolini in cleats. Meanwhile how many of us would leave our jobs if a competitor offered an extra $10-20k?

[Bruce Harper]

On record last year thinking he was as worthless as a bag of white castle sliders... because he was last year. 
This year he made the leap. Glad to see it. 

I like those sliders?!


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[JTJet]

3 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

I like those sliders?!


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Gross man lol

[More Cowbell]

12 hours ago, Warfish said:

Coming into this game, QW had played/started 9 games (of 10), and had 34 Tackles, 7 TFL and 3.5 sacks.

A slight improvement over his 2019 stats of 9 starts/13 games, 28 Tackles, 4 TFL and 2.5 sacks.

He's is improving, and that is good.

I think the idea that he is "developing into an elite player" is quite premature.  He is currently about equal to a JAG-type.  Not a 3rd pick in Draft type.

Hopefully, he continues to improve his game going forward, and may become a valued piece to the puzzle, but based on most of two years so far, it's hard to see him becoming worthy of where he was drafted.  But I'd happily take "competent piece that doesn't need immediate replacement" at this point. 

Chase Young is a good close comparison, he's been a disappointment here in DC so far, was the 2nd pick in his draft, and as a rookie through 10 games has 27 Tackles, 7 TFL, and 4.5 sacks.  While everyone here still believes in him, no one here is calling his 2020 performance elite.  

Still, seeing QW match (mostly) Young, positive!  

The problem has been GW rotation of DL. Q isn't  playing on every snap as he should be.

[Warfish]

10 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

I had to stop reading right there. 

I've said it once before (posted) and I'll post and say it again. 

Amongst all DT's-NT's:

2nd in Tackles for Loss (10) behind only Aaron Donald (11).

3rd in total tackles (41) behind only Sheldon Richardson (42) and Jonathan Allen (45). 

3rd in Sacks (5.0) behind only Aaron Donald (9.0) and Chris Jones (5.5). 

You're wrong Warfish.

Because after being drafted 3rd overall; he's closer to being a top 3 NFL DT/NT than he is a "jag type". 

And he's only 22 years of age too; while absolutely dominating grown men within the trenches. 

Funny that he is behind Sheldon Richardson of all people, lol.

You're limiting him to only DT/NT's.  I was evaluating his production (as specifically pointed out in the post) with both DT's and DE's.  I don't have access to a site that will give me stats for only DT's, so I'll take your numbers as accurate.

As noted earlier, if you want to proclaim him as "elite" right now, by all means, enjoy yourself.  Certainly don't let me stop you. 

I'm not going to argue with you about a player I'm very happy to see improving.  What a silly and unproductive waste of time of an "argument" that would be.

 

 

[KRL]

Nice step forward by Williams this year:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/nyj

Games:  10
Tackles:  41
Sacks:      5
TFL:       11
Pass Blocks:  3
Forced Fumbles:  1

No reason he can't finish with 8+ sacks with no edge presence.
Put two edge rushers on his left and right and we could be looking
at a Fletcher Cox (PHI) or Chris Jones (KC) impact player 

[ScarletKnight89]

Nope. I've been harsh on him. I never called him a bust but I've critiqued the positional value at pick number 3 very hard. Still don't like the pick at number 3 overall but the kid is growing into a dominant player. If he reaches his full potential it could be a great pick. 

[Jet2020]

18 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Absolutely.  We are in good shape in the trenches at least.

Not yet. One player each don’t make up the trenches. Need at least 2 more studs on the OL. We barely have 2 ok starters if that,  let alone 2 or even 1 more good OL. We are not in good shape. 

[August]

I get the sense people wanted him to fail because he was a Mike Maccagnan pick. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

3 hours ago, heymangold said:

but when you're drafted 3rd overall, you're supposed to.  you don't draft a DT 3rd overall in hopes that halfway through his 2nd season he is playable.  

No. You draft a player with the 3rd overall with the hopes he becomes a stud. If it takes a  year, no one cares unless you have become brainwashed by twitter that you are a bust if you don't perform at a pro bowl level week 1 of your rookie year. 

And he isn't just "playable",  he was a beast yesterday and been getting better and better. 

Every year you have NFL teams drafting players in the top 10 that are actual busts. Guys like Dee Milliner, Dewayne Robertson, Vernon Gholston (and yeah the list is long for other teams as well). Be happy we found a stud in the top 10 and  try not to lose too much sleep that it took him a year to figure it out.  

[bla bla bla]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

Plenty of fans also think a player wanting to get a pay raise is Mussolini in cleats. Meanwhile how many of us would leave our jobs if a competitor offered an extra $10-20k?

Oo 100% whenever someone complains about "how much money NFL players make" I remind them the average career is 3 years and if they didn't graduate or have a fall back path they may not make much money the rest of their lives.

No one should fault anyone for trying to make as much as they can given the way the NFL treats these players.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

 

[heymangold]

24 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

No. You draft a player with the 3rd overall with the hopes he becomes a stud. If it takes a  year, no one cares unless you have become brainwashed by twitter that you are a bust if you don't perform at a pro bowl level week 1 of your rookie year. 

And he isn't just "playable",  he was a beast yesterday and been getting better and better. 

Every year you have NFL teams drafting players in the top 10 that are actual busts. Guys like Dee Milliner, Dewayne Robertson, Vernon Gholston (and yeah the list is long for other teams as well). Be happy we found a stud in the top 10 and  try not to lose too much sleep that it took him a year to figure it out.  

like i said originally - about time he lived up to his draft pick. i never said anything about him being a bust.

[southtown24th]

Build around:

Becton

And 

Quinnen.

Move on from there.

[Scott Dierking]

I am not sure how a motor can seemingly get turned on, but his motor is revving right now. 

[heymangold]

7 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Jonah, the franchise LT who has played 7 games in 2 years and looked meh

according to PFF jonah williams has a grade of 70.5.  i'd take that at RT right now.

[Paradis]

lol, sooo

• 3rd overall pick at a luxury position sucks ass... Jet fans are disappointed (how dare they!)
• 3rd overall pick begins to play well, flashing signs of his potential... Jet fans: "SEE!!!! EAT THAT CROW"

 

[Jet Nut]

12 hours ago, JTJet said:

Tell what to who?

As I said, 3rd overall picks are expected to be great from day 1. That's the standard. 

Manning was expected to be great on day 0.  

Sapp wasnt a top 10 pick. 

Revis wasn't a top 10 pick. 

Randle wasnt a top 10 pick. 

Klecko wasnt a top 10 pick. 

Mahomes was the 10th pick. 

Which proves what, that a top 10 pick cant be good?  

 

[JTJet]

12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Which proves what, that a top 10 pick cant be good?  

 

No that's not even remotely what I'm talking about. Please go back and re-read the thread. 

[UntouchableCrew]

Last year he was having a hard time getting on the field in a rotation.

This year he slimmed down and has been dominating. He looks like he's gonna pan out as potentially a top 5 DT in the NFL if he keeps it up. We should all be thrilled but were justified to be worried last year.