Rich Cimini: Jets should keep Sam Darnold

[undertow]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Pauline, on that draft network YouTube channel, just said that he thinks hanging on to Darnold is too risky for Douglas since it’d likely end up burning another year of Douglas’ regime, presuming Darnold doesn’t pull a 180. Pauline is of the belief that Douglas should move Darnold and start fresh.

Also said that the Jets are going to be aggressive in free agency, and Trey Hendrickson is a primary target. 
 

Also said that the Panthers are going to go hard after Watson, but the Jets are still likely in pole position, and that the Dolphins might be satisfied to sit at 3 and just take Jamar Chase. 

I wonder what Paula Dean thinks about the Jets QB situation?

[UnknownJetFan]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

So just to keep score.

You have a we will move on from Sam thread

You have a we will stick with Sam thread

You now have a we should stick with Sam thread.

 

Countdown to the we should move on from Sam thread.....

It's the old flower pedal pull with "She loves me", "She loves me not?.

[Nixhead]

This is a tough decision for the Jets. There is little doubt that Darnold will be better with this new staff. How much better I don't know but he has nowhere to go but up. So I think it all depends on wether one of the QB's really wows the Jets. If it becomes a no-brainer then the Jets will do whatever route is a no-brainer. If some team offers the Jets a boatload of draft picks for the 2 and its a no-brainer then the Jets go that route. If they can trade just that #2 for Watson then then that's a no-brainer. Hopefully a no-brainer presents itself and the Jets will wait until they have to make a decision.

[Greensleeves]

3 hours ago, Matt39 said:

I think the league feels the same as the Jets scouts and all of this other noise regarding Wilson/Fields is agent hot air. Especially Wilson. Wouldnt shock me if Mac Jones went ahead of either or both. 

Darnold is not the guy and will never be the guy. A placeholder for a season with presumably a bunch of rookie weapons I think is the better route to go, to at least get the better reps/looks. 

If the scouts throughout the league dont like Wilson or Fields just take Chase at 2 imo. Assuming the interviews go well and him skipping last year wasnt due to a lack of competitiveness. 

Mack Jones IMO is way harder to analyze and is much less talented of a thrower, athlete, everything than Wilson. I would stay away from Jones. He will most likely be the 4th QB off the board. He had one of the easiest years of any college QB in history - stats showed he only had (I posted this in another thread) around 30 throws into a tight window the ENTIRE YEAR! Compared to Burrows last year who had around 150. Wilson is going to be great IMO. There is nothing on tape that says otherwise and the fact that the lights went on for him, like Burrows, is very encouraging. Staying healthy will be important, but Sam is much bigger and can't stay healthy. Pretty sure it will be Watson or Wilson, but you never know.

[UnknownJetFan]

21 minutes ago, Grandy said:

I've been thinking the same with regards to that.

With what he's shown, rolling with Darnold is a bigger risk than taking most rookie QB's and has an extremely high chance of writing off Douglas' 3rd season before it even starts. Douglas has some room, but needs to start showing results soon. You could always wait another year, save picks, and take a QB in the future. However we'd just be mortgaging capital in the future when we're already in prime position to make a move if need be. 

We need to do full evaluation to see what the best option moving forward is. Sticking with Darnold is perhaps the riskiest thing we can do even though some think it's the safe route.

It's risky trading for Watson if it is a lot we have to give up and as you said it is risky sticking with Darnold for next year. The best risk is taking Fields or Wilson at #2 and building around them as best as possible. If we can keep that under wraps thru FA maybe we can be aggressive and get especially some good offensive players to come once FA starts.

[David Harris]

3 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

Here is video on folks saying that the Jets should keep Darnold......

 

I hope we just get Watson, part of me (the illogical homer part) would be happy to see Sam come back.  I have a hard time letting go of our young QB’s- I’m still holding out hope Kellen Clemens will pan out

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, oatmeal said:

Sam has never accomplished what Watson has at the pro or college level. Idk why you feel thats even a close comparison. Watson’s 17 int year is the outlier of a great career, you can’t say the same for Sam Darnold 

Thats not what I talking about.  

You made a comment about college TOs to NFL.  Watson and the knock against him was 17 INTS.  

Outlier doesnt fit in any way here

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, UnknownJetFan said:

It's the old flower pedal pull with "She loves me", "She loves me not?.

[Icer]

Can't wait to be sold the new look NY Jets with the worst QB in the NFL starting for a 4th year in a row on his 3rd HC

[NamathToCaster]

2 hours ago, oatmeal said:

^^^
???

Darnold is terrible only the jets would make this complicated but this is the same organization that passed on Watson and Mahomes because they had Christian Hackenberg on the roster. 
 

And I can’t wait for all the hit pieces on how incompetent the font office is because they let another first round QB stud slip through their fingers. 
 

Banking on Sam, hoping he can have a magical turnaround VS the potential and upside of a Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Trey Lance, or even Mac Jones. - All these young QBs have shown the ability to throw the ball downfield and not turn it over, something Darnold has always struggled with :

 

^^
i guess this is Gase fault too? ?

It doesn’t take 4 seasons to evaluate a QB, especially one who’s showed nothing but the ability to turn the football over predating The Jets and Adam Gase.

Sam is an entitled  POS who's team is not good enough to make up for his countless turnovers.  Got away with it at USC, but not in NY.  Have no guilt, get rid of Sam. 

[PLO]

Apparently, according to Tony Pauline, feeling around the league is he'll be traded. Makes the most sense for Joe Douglas. This is the key decision of Douglas' tenure....rolling with a new QB does buy Douglas another year's time feasibly if Darnold keeps up his horrid play of the last few years. 

[PLO]

10 minutes ago, NamathToCaster said:

Sam is an entitled  POS who's team is not good enough to make up for his countless turnovers.  Got away with it at USC, but not in NY.  Have no guilt, get rid of Sam. 

That's very harsh. You can criticize Darnold for his play but he's really been an exemplary citizen while part of the Jets organisation. He's a bad player but a good person. 

[oatmeal]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Thats not what I talking about.  

You made a comment about college TOs to NFL.  Watson and the knock against him was 17 INTS.  

Outlier doesnt fit in any way here

“

i guess this is Gase fault too? 

It doesn’t take 4 seasons to evaluate a QB, especially one who’s showed nothing but the ability to turn the football over predating The Jets and Adam Gase.”

Idk what you are talking about but ok ? 

[oatmeal]

6 hours ago, Grandy said:

I've been thinking the same with regards to that.

With what he's shown, rolling with Darnold is a bigger risk than taking most rookie QB's and has an extremely high chance of writing off Douglas' 3rd season before it even starts. Douglas has some room, but needs to start showing results soon. You could always wait another year, save picks, and take a QB in the future. However we'd just be mortgaging capital in the future when we're already in prime position to make a move if need be. 

We need to do full evaluation to see what the best option moving forward is. Sticking with Darnold is perhaps the riskiest thing we can do even though some think it's the safe route.

On top of that you would have to have a lot of HOPE:

-hope Darnold could turn it around 

-hope that even if he turns it around he just doesn’t regress like Wentz/ Golf

-hope that if he flames out a QB in next years draft is half of what a Fields, Wilson, Lance are. 
 

-hope even if you identify a guy that the team in position to take him doesn't need a QB too 

-hope that there wouldn’t be a bidding war for your identified QB replacement

 

Sticking with Sam Darnold isn’t logical at this point when you weigh all factors.

[Bruce Harper]

Big Dick has spoken! On his Flight Deck Podcast he listed 10 reasons the Jets should keep Sam Darnold. 
Here are his nuggets
1) Jets front office think there is a huge gap  between Lawrence and Wilson/Fields
2) Wilson is a one year wonder. Cites concerns about his frame size and cupcake competition. 
 
What would GM Cimini do?
Trade down from #2 
Sign Jacoby Brisset or Jamies Winston to compete with Darnold. 
 
Its over guys. Wilson is going to be a franchise QB. 

.

Let’s face it: Cimini doesn’t know crap.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Biggs]

10 hours ago, Bronx said:

@FidelioJet. rebuttal please!

Magic underwear.  

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, oatmeal said:

“

i guess this is Gase fault too? 

It doesn’t take 4 seasons to evaluate a QB, especially one who’s showed nothing but the ability to turn the football over predating The Jets and Adam Gase.”

Idk what you are talking about but ok ? 

Hes played three seasons.  He didnt have a full college career, Hes 23 years old.

When has another QB, ranked at the top of his draft class, taken 3rd overall, been given so little support, with both players around him and with coaching?  

Hes only 23, still has all the physical tools that made him a 3rd overall pick.  

This is what a hell of a lot of people are saying

I'm explaining why some think we should roll with Sam and stock up on picks.  

This all started because you posted Sams turnovers in his final USC season and I countered with Watsons 17 INTs

[Biggs]

Robert Saleh and LaFleur owe their promotions to Sam Darnold.  Todd Bowles has a super bowl ring because of Sam Darnold.  Sam is a keeper.  

[rangerous]

Hasn’t diminished been all over the map on this? I don’t think anyone knows which way this is going to go.  But it’s pretty funny the jets worked so hard to get the two pick and there’s no QBs to be had.  And this also means less of a chance teams will be trying to trade for the pick.  I don’t think teams jockey as much unless there’s a top QBs to be had. I guess it can’t be all bad. Mac would just take a dt.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, oatmeal said:

On top of that you would have to have a lot of HOPE:

-hope Darnold could turn it around 

Thats the major question.  Like we would hope that Fields or Wilson could overcome their issues and concerns coming out of their respective schools

1 hour ago, oatmeal said:

-hope that even if he turns it around he just doesn’t regress like Wentz/ Golf

Like you would with Wilson/Fields/Lance if they had good starts to their careers

1 hour ago, oatmeal said:

-hope that if he flames out a QB in next years draft is half of what a Fields, Wilson, Lance are. 

We say this every year, a year before a draft.  Whos up and coming.  Then they come.

1 hour ago, oatmeal said:

Sticking with Sam Darnold isn’t logical at this point when you weigh all factors.

Unless Sam turns it around with talent and coaching.  

Sticking with him isnt even my first choice, its just I would totally understand it if they stuck with him.  

[joewilly12]

Sign a decent free agent QB who can come here start and win games. 

Use the draft to acquire some desperately needed talent. 

[Savage69]

8 hours ago, David Harris said:

I hope we just get Watson, part of me (the illogical homer part) would be happy to see Sam come back.  I have a hard time letting go of our young QB’s- I’m still holding out hope Kellen Clemens will pan out

Yep the Jets get rid of Chaddy cakes and get Farve and Chad take the 1-15 Fins to 11-5 and the Jet go 9-7 in a Brady less year and when Farve's arm was hurt the great Mangini didn't think Clemens was ready even in year 3..

[oatmeal]

17 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Thats the major question.  Like we would hope that Fields or Wilson could overcome their issues and concerns coming out of their respective schools

Like you would with Wilson/Fields/Lance if they had good starts to their careers

We say this every year, a year before a draft.  Whos up and coming.  Then they come.

Unless Sam turns it around with talent and coaching.  

Sticking with him isnt even my first choice, its just I would totally understand it if they stuck with him.  

Again it’s a clean canvas rookie QB, on a cheap longterm deal VS a 3 year loser QB who’s had turnover problems predating the Jets, on a expiring deal... amazing this is even a debate ?‍♂️
 

And honestly IDC it makes no sense going back and forth, you’re correct I’m wrong, it is 100% understandable why the jets would want to run it back with the literal worst QB in the NFL on a expiring contract.
 

It’s totally logical to hope for a super rare 4th year turnaround while passing on 3 QBs in Lance Fields and Wilson, who are more physically gifted and far developed when it comes to throwing the ball downfield, they also protect the ball well too - all things Darnolds struggled with pre dating the Jets to this day.

 

But you see logic in keeping Sam...

 

I can understand the mainstream media pushing this narrative because they are just waiting for the inevitable and that’s Sams failure so they can RIP the Jets for passing on (insert the first round QB stud who’s the best after Lawrence) Or if he’s a 1% unicorn who has a late round career turnaround, they can say see our guys were correct. Covering all angles now to secure future clout. 

 

 I tap out, you're correct jetnut 
 

 

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, oatmeal said:

But you see logic in keeping Sam...

 

I can understand the mainstream media pushing this narrative because they are just waiting for the inevitable and that’s Sams failure so they can RIP the Jets for passing on (insert the first round QB stud who’s the best after Lawrence) Or if he’s a 1% unicorn who has a late round career turnaround, they can say see our guys were correct. Covering all angles now to secure future clout. 

I tap out, you're correct jetnut 

As I said, Im explaining the logic behind keeping him.  I can understand it.  Youre too stubborn to consider the reasoning behind it, just want to move on and cant even consider the alternative to drafting a question mark, see it as a sure fire, 100% better alternative to rolling the dice with Sam.  

You believe there is no logic behind the FO keeping Sam, its a ll a hope by the media so they can rip the Jets if Fields/Wilson/Lance work out.  Ignoring the chatter that would flood the media if the opposite were to happen.  Not seeing that if the Jets dump Sam and he does turn it around how stupid the team would be in not developing him for 3 years and not seeing what they already had.  

Giving the alternative view as an option isnt being right or wrong.  I clearly said im ready to move on from Sam

 

[oatmeal]

6 hours ago, PLO said:

That's very harsh. You can criticize Darnold for his play but he's really been an exemplary citizen while part of the Jets organisation. He's a bad player but a good person. 

If you’re a scrub you sit down and shut up period, this is always how the NFL has operated. QBs or players who get too big for their britches and suck get the Haskins, Rosen treatment ASAP. 
 

Hell AB and Big Ben have been toxic af for the Pittsburgh Steelers and you see how AB got handled and now that Big Bens shoulder melted you see how Pittsburgh is handling him now. Ben is literally begging to comeback now ?

This is how the NFL has always worked historically I will never understand how Darnold gets credit for handling himself like how 99.9% of the JAGs and bums also have handled themselves historically in the NFL. 
 

Who cares if he presents himself as a “good guy”? Tiger Woods did this for years until exposed, CAN HE PLAY QB is all that matters. 

[oatmeal]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

As I said, Im explaining the logic behind keeping him.  I can understand it.  Youre too stubborn to consider the reasoning behind it, just want to move on and cant even consider the alternative to drafting a question mark, see it as a sure fire, 100% better alternative to rolling the dice with Sam.  

You believe there is no logic behind the FO keeping Sam, its a ll a hope by the media so they can rip the Jets if Fields/Wilson/Lance work out.  Ignoring the chatter that would flood the media if the opposite were to happen.  Not seeing that if the Jets dump Sam and he does turn it around how stupid the team would be in not developing him for 3 years and not seeing what they already had.  

Giving the alternative view as an option isnt being right or wrong.  I clearly said im ready to move on from Sam

 

How many QBs have had 4th year turnarounds? It’s extremely rare and even more rare for a QB who’s had turnover problems predating the pros - to enter the pros still and turn the ball over - to magically fix that problem year 4.

There is no logic banking on a such a long shot like this. So call me stubborn or whatever you like, I could careless.

[ZachEY]

9 hours ago, undertow said:

I wonder what Paula Dean thinks about the Jets QB situation?

Well, I'd guess she's pretty strongly opposed to drafting Fields.

[The Crusher]

29 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

As I said, Im explaining the logic behind keeping him.  I can understand it.  Youre too stubborn to consider the reasoning behind it, just want to move on and cant even consider the alternative to drafting a question mark, see it as a sure fire, 100% better alternative to rolling the dice with Sam.  

You believe there is no logic behind the FO keeping Sam, its a ll a hope by the media so they can rip the Jets if Fields/Wilson/Lance work out.  Ignoring the chatter that would flood the media if the opposite were to happen.  Not seeing that if the Jets dump Sam and he does turn it around how stupid the team would be in not developing him for 3 years and not seeing what they already had.  

Giving the alternative view as an option isnt being right or wrong.  I clearly said im ready to move on from Sam

 

Yeah but you can only judge what you have right now. Right now you have close to the worse QB in the NFL statistically. We’ve all heard the myriad of reasons why he’s that way and I agree with some of them. Yet, at the end of the day trying to believe Sam will make the Jets a perennial contender is something you would have to settle on because you want it, because he hasn’t show anything to make anyone believe it. Throw in the eventual pay jump he’ll get regardless of how he plays it just seem to have way more risk than reward. If he does go somewhere else and lights it up and becomes a perennial  winner you will have plenty of people to commiserate with in the WTF line? 

[Bronx]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Sign a decent free agent QB who can come here start and win games. 

Use the draft to acquire some desperately needed talent. 

What is the trick for such elaborate post? Meditation? Exercises? Daily masturbation? 

[Philc1]

Cimini is actually right but so is a broken clock twice a day

[Philc1]

49 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

How many QBs have had 4th year turnarounds? 

Drew Brees, Alex Smith, Vinny Testaverde

[oatmeal]

3 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Drew Brees, Alex Smith, Vinny Testaverde

Thank you for naming 1% unicorns, Sam should have a easy time reaching that. I guess Saleh and staff are miracle workers, transforming basement QBs into studs. Silly me ?

[joewilly12]

25 minutes ago, Bronx said:

What is the trick for such elaborate post? Meditation? Exercises? Daily masturbation? 

That comes from reading all the drivel you post on a daily basis. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, oatmeal said:

How many QBs have had 4th year turnarounds? It’s extremely rare and even more rare for a QB who’s had turnover problems predating the pros - to enter the pros still and turn the ball over - to magically fix that problem year 4.

There is no logic banking on a such a long shot like this. So call me stubborn or whatever you like, I could careless.

I asked first, which 3rd overall pick, as highly thought of as Sam was handed Berrios an Hogan as WRs, no running game, a sieve of an OL and a leader like Gase?  When you come up with a comparable then we can compare.  I don’t see one.

One more time.  I want to move on.  I’m also understanding of the thoughts behind keeping him and our picks, building an offense.  Can’t figure out what you’re trying to convince me if.  I get the reasons for moving on

[Jet Nut]

57 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Yeah but you can only judge what you have right now. Right now you have close to the worse QB in the NFL statistically. We’ve all heard the myriad of reasons why he’s that way and I agree with some of them. Yet, at the end of the day trying to believe Sam will make the Jets a perennial contender is something you would have to settle on because you want it, because he hasn’t show anything to make anyone believe it. Throw in the eventual pay jump he’ll get regardless of how he plays it just seem to have way more risk than reward. If he does go somewhere else and lights it up and becomes a perennial  winner you will have plenty of people to commiserate with in the WTF line? 

I totally agree.  I’m for moving on.  
As I said multiple times.   I was just explaining  what I believe the thinking behind retaining Darnold would have to be.  Not what I’m confident he can become.