Training Camp Practice - 8/9 (getting ready for the Giants)

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Who is saying that? 

A few camp reports have said it.  I've got a friend that has seen practice and went to the scrimmage and said White looks a lot more comfortable.  Take it fwiw, doesnt mean much, none of this does.

2 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

who the heck said mike white is the best qb out there?

Guys, you're giving up based on practice reports. Please, for the love of god, chill

I've literally said in every post I've made that this doesnt matter and that it's early and that we need to practice patience with Zach but yes, otherwise, yes, I'm ready to give up!!!

[FidelioJet]

40 minutes ago, Jetlife33 said:

They just finished install on the offensive side of the ball today. Too early to worry. It’s august 9th. 

This is what far too many people are missing...

This is a brand new offense - with a new OC, rookie QB - 7 new starters - 4 of those are rookies.....

Every day they've been adding in new plays and schemes and then working on those plays....So just about every day in practice ZW and the offense are doing something completely new - and something they've never done before.

And by all accounts - the defense is quite simple where the players can really just pin their ears back and go.

Again - I can't believe people here were expecting ZW to be lighting it up in his first two weeks of practice. It's insane that, seemingly, passionate football fans - that come to a forum - can be this naive to how the NFL works.

[neckdemon]

3 hours ago, Larz said:

2 more practices more of this stuff and I will be officially on the concerned list

you know when i'll be concerned? when it's the last 1/4 of the year and he doesn't look to be making significant improvement.....and then i'll be much more concerned if he looks bad in camp and to start the year next year. otherwise, he is a rookie who has been in the league for about 5 or 6 practices.....so lets get a grip on expectations.

[neckdemon]

3 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

A few camp reports have said it.  I've got a friend that has seen practice and went to the scrimmage and said White looks a lot more comfortable.  Take it fwiw, doesnt mean much, none of this does.

I've literally said in every post I've made that this doesnt matter and that it's early and that we need to practice patience with Zach but yes, otherwise, yes, I'm ready to give up!!!

you mean to tell me a guy who has been in the league for a few years and is going against the back-ups is looking a bit more comfortable?

[Ken Schroy]

12 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

 

That show was decades ahead of its time.

"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, briefed, debriefed, or numbered". One of the greatest lines of all time.

[Action Zachtion]

13 minutes ago, docdhc said:

I was at practice today. It’s amazing to me all the handwringing over things like Bechton’s performance. First of all they weren’t in pads and can’t really hit each other. Secondly they aren’t in real downs and distance situations so Lawson just pins his ears back and races around to the QB. It’s hard to say how many “sacks” in practice would really translate into game sacks, especially when play action will actually mean something. Wilson’s performance is hard to judge too because the run plays aren’t real without tackling and can’t set up the pass. The DBs drop back in coverage like they aren’t concerned about the run. I guess you can tell something about accuracy and decision making but it’s not real football. He also didn’t throw down field at all today probably by design. I really think you can’t draw any conclusions until the games start. If he sucks in the preseason games, and the OL gives up lots of sacks then I’ll worry. 

Do they have any designed roll outs?  

[sec101row23]

1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

Ugh, it's everything we talked about, kid looks like he could kill it in flag Football.  lol 

No, I'm kidding, I totally understand the practicing patience piece and clearly you have to, especially for a project like Wilson.  That part of this that is frustrating though, is how we had to listen to an entire offseason of why he was actually better then Trevor Lawrence and wayyyyy better then the other guys (looks around for Chris Simms).  And that's all fine and great until you tell me he cant handle 11 on 11.  

And I know there is nothing else Saleh can say but plenty of rookies in recent years have hit the ground running.  We've seen the rookie TD record broken twice in the last 3 years.  We've seen guys like Russ, Murray, Watson, Burrow, Jackson, Winston, etc. all come in and play well for week 1.  I know it's early but the excuse making coming out already has me a bit frustrated.  We were sold that what we're getting with Wilson is a Day 1 starter, high level acumen, student of the game, film junky who will galvanize the team with his leadership and ability and instead, I'm hearing Mike White looks like the best QB out there.

 

 

Agreed.   I think the staff is doing a good job of making Zach stay in the pocket and forcing him to play with in the system.    Obviously it’s concerning he’s being too deliberate in his decision making, but it was expected.  My concern is that he isn’t really being given difficult reads.  Remember how everyone touted this offense, how QB friendly it is and that Zach actually played in a version of this offense last year at BYU.   
 

We’ll see, Saturday night will be the next data point we can evaluate, hopefully there is improvement.   

[The Crusher]

13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This is what far too many people are missing...

This is a brand new offense - with a new OC, rookie QB - 7 new starters - 4 of those are rookies.....

Every day they've been adding in new plays and schemes and then working on those plays....So just about every day in practice ZW and the offense are doing something completely new - and something they've never done before.

And by all accounts - the defense is quite simple where the players can really just pin their ears back and go.

Again - I can't believe people here were expecting ZW to be lighting it up in his first two weeks of practice. It's insane that, seemingly, passionate football fans - that come to a forum - can be this naive to how the NFL works.

Honestly I thought he would have his bumps but never really expected accuracy issues. Thought that was kind of his thing. 

[munchmemory]

3 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Honestly I thought he would have his bumps but never really expected accuracy issues. Thought that was kind of his thing. 

No, it's film work and bombarding the coaches with questions.

[FidelioJet]

23 minutes ago, docdhc said:

I was at practice today. It’s amazing to me all the handwringing over things like Bechton’s performance. First of all they weren’t in pads and can’t really hit each other. Secondly they aren’t in real downs and distance situations so Lawson just pins his ears back and races around to the QB. It’s hard to say how many “sacks” in practice would really translate into game sacks, especially when play action will actually mean something. Wilson’s performance is hard to judge too because the run plays aren’t real without tackling and can’t set up the pass. The DBs drop back in coverage like they aren’t concerned about the run. I guess you can tell something about accuracy and decision making but it’s not real football. He also didn’t throw down field at all today probably by design. I really think you can’t draw any conclusions until the games start. If he sucks in the preseason games, and the OL gives up lots of sacks then I’ll worry. 

Yes.....

Keep in mind - If these were games or in pads - they'll be running left A LOT and Becton will be beating the crap out of Lawson.  

It's quite a bit different when a man like Becton runs you over a few dozen times......than he can just pin his ears back every play and know even if he's getting hit on running plays - it'll still be relatively mild.

Becton will be fine - I'm sure he'll get beat on occasion but he won't be giving up 3 sacks a game.  But he's going t

[jeremy2020]

4 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Honestly I thought he would have his bumps but never really expected accuracy issues. Thought that was kind of his thing. 

yea, well, there was some confusion in the reporting. One of the bars near campus had one of those urinals that makes peeing into a game and Zach had the high score. Super accurate pee-er. 

[Green Ghost]

2 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

You don't know who Brian Burns is? I do. Because I'm an FSU fan and @JiFapono is correct. He's a freak. 

2019 Rookie = 7.5 sacks. 

2020 2nd year = 9.0 sacks. 

He's a better pass rusher than anyone on your Buffalo defense (including your overrated Miami U Rookie who Michael Carter ran all over for 300+ rushing yards).  

That wasn’t a plane that flew over your head, it was his reply. ?
Thanks for posting the Burns’ Wikipedia page though.

[Warfish]

29 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

A few camp reports have said it.

I hadn't seen that in any camp report I've seen, hence my confusion. 

Definitely fits the "big, if true" meme.

29 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I've got a friend that has seen practice and went to the scrimmage and said White looks a lot more comfortable.  Take it fwiw, doesnt mean much, none of this does.

Aye, fair enough.

 

[FidelioJet]

6 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Honestly I thought he would have his bumps but never really expected accuracy issues. Thought that was kind of his thing. 

Honestly, I'm not there - I haven't seen him throw.  When we see tweets about him missing throws I really have no context.  The pressure, the route, the timing...

Remember these are new installs - and a lot of timing routes in this offense.  Just give him time.  

It seems whenever plays are scripted and worked on prior ZW seems to have good days.  There's just far too much new right now to make any judgements.

We shouldn't even be making judgements in the pre-season games or the first half of the year.  

What the Jets are doing this year - from a "new" perspective is massive and putting them far behind every team in the league.

I can't imagine there's another team with 7 new starters on offense...and/or 4 starting rookies on offense.  Probably no one even close to either of those....

This is going to be rough for a while - what they're asking of ZW is massive and we should all understand and expect what's going to happen.   

[genot]

21 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.   I think the staff is doing a good job of making Zach stay in the pocket and forcing him to play with in the system.    Obviously it’s concerning he’s being too deliberate in his decision making, but it was expected.  My concern is that he isn’t really being given difficult reads.  Remember how everyone touted this offense, how QB friendly it is and that Zach actually played in a version of this offense last year at BYU.   
 

We’ll see, Saturday night will be the next data point we can evaluate, hopefully there is improvement.   

He"s having a lot of issues with accuracy. Even on completed passes. I don't know how hell respond when he gets blindsided in a teal game. It concerns me. It always has.

 

[sec101row23]

15 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Honestly, I'm not there - I haven't seen him throw.  When we see tweets about him missing throws I really have no context.  The pressure, the route, the timing...

Remember these are new installs - and a lot of timing routes in this offense.  Just give him time.  

It seems whenever plays are scripted and worked on prior ZW seems to have good days.  There's just far too much new right now to make any judgements.

We shouldn't even be making judgements in the pre-season games or the first half of the year.  

What the Jets are doing this year - from a "new" perspective is massive and putting them far behind every team in the league.

I can't imagine there's another team with 7 new starters on offense...and/or 4 starting rookies on offense.  Probably no one even close to either of those....

This is going to be rough for a while - what they're asking of ZW is massive and we should all understand and expect what's going to happen.   

It’s ok that Zach doesn’t look good, but my god the excuses you are already coming up with.  Just stop.  It’s a little embarrassing.  

[batman10023]

45 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

you know when i'll be concerned? when it's the last 1/4 of the year and he doesn't look to be making significant improvement.....and then i'll be much more concerned if he looks bad in camp and to start the year next year. otherwise, he is a rookie who has been in the league for about 5 or 6 practices.....so lets get a grip on expectations.

the last quarter of the year was when sam darnold did quite well also

[FTL Jet Fan]

4 hours ago, DannyDevito3 said:

Seriously? 7 straight incompletions in a practice setting?

This kid should not be starting week 1.  Downvote me all you want. 

Seriously,  you are like a ******* child! Please go back to Finheaven.com with the rest of the trolls. You must be a miserable bastard. Take your meds

[FidelioJet]

13 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

It’s ok that Zach doesn’t look good, but my god the excuses you are already coming up with.  Just stop.  It’s a little embarrassing.  

 No excuses. Just reality.  
You believe Tweets from reporters, about miss throws in a newly installed offense truly reflects how accurate he is? 
You really should worry about your own embarrassment.  An adult man making assessments, on something so nuanced as accuracy, based on tweets.  

[FidelioJet]

8 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

the last quarter of the year was when sam darnold did quite well also

True. And I was pretty bullish on his direction but Sam regressed.  

[SAR I]

49 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Remember how everyone touted this offense, how QB friendly it is and that Zach actually played in a version of this offense last year at BYU.   

It's beginning to get concerning.  The Giants contest is the most important Jets game since 2018.

SAR I

[SAR I]

43 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Honestly I thought he would have his bumps but never really expected accuracy issues. Thought that was kind of his thing. 

33 TD's, 3 INT's. 

This ain't that.

SAR I

[sec101row23]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

 No excuses. Just reality.  
You believe Tweets from reporters, about miss throws in a newly installed offense truly reflects how or how not ZW is accurate.  
You really should worry about your own embarrassment.  An adult man making assessments, on something so nuanced as accuracy, based on tweets.  

I’ve watched him in person several times.  Plus I haven’t mentioned he was “not accurate”, just making slow decisions and wrong decisions.   It’s ok to say Zach needs to improve. Period.  Stop.   
 

You’re already coming up with the excuse book for Zach.   It’s ok he doesn’t look great, just don’t make it seem like Zach is trying to something no other QB has had to do.   He’s a rookie QB on a bad team, happens all the time.  Don’t be an emotional school girl in your defense of Zach.  

[The Crusher]

6 minutes ago, SAR I said:

33 TD's, 3 INT's. 

This ain't that.

SAR I

Not yet anyways 

[Larz]

1 hour ago, neckdemon said:

you know when i'll be concerned? when it's the last 1/4 of the year and he doesn't look to be making significant improvement.....and then i'll be much more concerned if he looks bad in camp and to start the year next year. otherwise, he is a rookie who has been in the league for about 5 or 6 practices.....so lets get a grip on expectations.

I’ll save a spot for you too. ?
 

im also concerned with the pass protection.   Is that ok ?

[sec101row23]

8 minutes ago, SAR I said:

It's beginning to get concerning.  The Giants contest is the most important Jets game since 2018.

SAR I

The Snoopy Bowl has always held a lot of gravitas.

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

I’ve watched him in person several times.  Plus I haven’t mentioned he was “not accurate”, just making slow decisions and wrong decisions.   It’s ok to say Zach needs to improve. Period.  Stop.   
 

You’re already coming up with the excuse book for Zach.   It’s ok he doesn’t look great, just don’t make it seem like Zach is trying to something no other QB has had to do.   He’s a rookie QB on a bad team, happens all the time.  Don’t be an emotional school girl in your defense of Zach.  

I’m discussing facts and you’re name calling like a child.  
They have in fact been installing a new offense almost daily

It is a fact that when installing new plays decision making speed will be affected 

They will in fact have at least 7 new starters on offense

He has in fact only had two weeks of practice. 

They will in fact be the only team in the league with 7 new starters on offense

 

i would enjoy a debate but this name calling sh*t isn’t for me.  
Good luck and please just don’t respond to me anymore. Put me on ignore     
 

 

[sec101row23]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

I’m discussing facts and you’re name calling like a child.  
They have in fact been installing a new offense almost daily

It is a fact that when installing new plays decision making speed will be affected 

They will in fact have at least 7 new starters on offense

He has in fact only had two weeks of practice. 

They will in fact be the only team in the league with 7 new starters on offense

 

i would enjoy a debate but this name calling sh*t isn’t for me.  
Good luck and please just don’t respond to me anymore. Put me on ignore     
 

 

Lol...Oh boy.  

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I’m discussing facts and you’re name calling like a child.  
They have in fact been installing a new offense almost daily

It is a fact that when installing new plays decision making speed will be affected 

They will in fact have at least 7 new starters on offense

He has in fact only had two weeks of practice. 

They will in fact be the only team in the league with 7 new starters on offense

 

i would enjoy a debate but this name calling sh*t isn’t for me.  
Good luck and please just don’t respond to me anymore. Put me on ignore     
 

 

With all the good vibes we had over the off-season, it just feels like something ain’t right. Wilson being late to camp was asinine by the org. Practices have seemed low energy and just from I’ve seen Wilson has looked like a deer in headlights. Maybe they come out firing on Saturday but you typically play like you practice. Another year of unwatchable football after the way this team spent this offseason is unacceptable. 

[kevinc855]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

That's too bad.  Because this year isn't about winning because we're not, in fact, going to win anything meaningful.

Might be a reason for that, you know.

I don't. 

Sadly, it isn't only up to him.  They pay the other team and coaches too, you know.

I would think he wouldn't.  Sadly, he now has almost no control over that.  His decisions are done now.

Most do, some don't care as long as they're paid.  

I don't think the Johnsons expect to win a Super Bowl in 2021.

This isn't a winning or post-season competitive team.

Rational, objective comparative analysis tells me so.  

I feel bad for guys like you...

If im ever this jaded one day, I couldn't imagine football being fun

[Drums]

4 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

Notice, Becton throws Lawson onto the ground on this play.  So even though Carl is getting the around him he's getting his lumps too. 

 

Meanwhile Moses looked like he held. And is also getting beat by guys not named Lawson. More worried about him in the pass rush tbh

[Warfish]

19 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

I feel bad for guys like you...

If i'm ever this jaded one day, I couldn't imagine football being fun

Sounds like a you issue, honestly.

Personally, I can't wait to watch the games this year.   

[FidelioJet]

15 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

With all the good vibes we had over the off-season, it just feels like something ain’t right. Wilson being late to camp was asinine by the org. Practices have seemed low energy and just from I’ve seen Wilson has looked like a deer in headlights. Maybe they come out firing on Saturday but you typically play like you practice. Another year of unwatchable football after the way this team spent this offseason is unacceptable. 

I hear you.   Agree with much of what you’re saying.  But expectations should never have been high this year.   
I expect to see a young team that loses a lot but should absolutely flash and be fun to watch.  Not like the past two years where there was just no hope.  
We have a young, exciting roster with massive potential everywhere. 
 

Expect to se ZW flash often, just not consistently enough (I except him to deliver a lot more excitement than Sam ever did) 

I expect to see Moore in ROY contention. I expect Carter to be the most explosive RB this team has had in a very long time.    

They’ll be fun, but also some very ugly times and not a lot of winning.  

[92ShaunEllis92]

25 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

I feel bad for guys like you...

If im ever this jaded one day, I couldn't imagine football being fun

Sadly, I’m starting to reach that point.

Nothing that has occurred between January through now has instilled any new hope or excitement for the upcoming season as it would have 20 years ago before the joy for Jets was killed within me. 
 

All I can say is that their off-season moves don’t seem AS BAD & CLUELESS as the past 13 years of drafting and FA acquisitions. 
 

 I wish I didn’t feel this way. The only hope is that the season is somehow bearable to watch. 

[kevinc855]

29 minutes ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

Sadly, I’m starting to reach that point.

Nothing that has occurred between January through now has instilled any new hope or excitement for the upcoming season as it would have 20 years ago before the joy for Jets was killed within me. 
 

All I can say is that their off-season moves don’t seem AS BAD & CLUELESS as the past 13 years of drafting and FA acquisitions. 
 

 I wish I didn’t feel this way. The only hope is that the season is somehow bearable to watch. 

I wasnt to impressed this offseason either but most of this fan base is willing to give JD like 5 years to build a team...i dont know...lets see how this year goes first