If we're being honest - are things going well? (Douglas era)

[Paradis]

Was about to start ranting before i saw this post - and thought I can just borrow it

  

5 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

Here’s what annoys me about how the Jets are handling Mims.

1.Joe Douglas has torn apart the roster in his 2 1/2 years here. He got rid of Robby, Leo, Adams and Sam. Okay, fine. You better hit on your picks then. So far… not  so much

2. His first draft looks epically bad this morning. I’m sorry, there isn’t any other way to put it. Aside from Zach, who absolutely must turn out to be who we hope he is, tell me… what other Douglas pick from this draft looks like a difference maker?

3. The Mantra here and from the team is that we’re going to go with young players, coach them up, and build a new culture. Coach up Mims. Guys like Berrios, Crowder and Smith are fine, but they’ll be gone by the time this team is ready to contend.

4. We all say we’re not expecting a lot of wins this year. All we’re hoping to see a team that improves as the year goes on and the kids gain experience. Give Mims experience, please.

How can we claim those 4 points are our mission statement and then bury the #2 pick from last years draft? It makes no sense. He’s healthy, put him out there, otherwise what are we doing here?

 

But for those preaching patience -- why don't you list WHAT has been going well...

• Trades

That's all I got. Certainly hasn't been his "Oline" prowess. Fcking disaster actually. The players seem engaged, but is that the coaching staff? How well is the staff doing, really... I think they like Saleh, but how long does that keep oil flowing.... 

I'm genuinely looking for some reflection -- is Douglas managing this team well, or do we just really really really want to believe he is.? 

 

[Guilhermezmc]

Wow wow wow calm down pal. 

Jabari Zuniga is ready to breakout

[joewilly12]

Most fans including myself were expecting better results yesterday. 

JD did a lot of moving and shaking many new faces. 

On a positive note last season  the NY Jets would have lost that game in the first half and never stood a chance in the 4th quarter. 

[munchmemory]

Since 2019: 24 losses.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

No idea. Too early. Several guys could breakout and that makes things look better. 
Several could fail and that’ll answer that. Hate how it’s started this season but stupid to jump the gun. 

[FidelioJet]

It’s all about the OL

 

We don’t know what AVT is yet (I’m confident he’ll be good) but otherwise he’s been abysmal with the OL. 

Pretty must a disaster every step of the way. 
 

otherwise I think he’s been very good. 

[GangGreened]

The honeymoon is definitely coming to an end. He’s already been GM longer than the entire Idzik tenure. Sooner rather than later he’s going to have to put a winning product out there.

[Beerfish]

Re the oline, I have said this before and I'll say it again.  I hate the zone blocking scheme.  It turns checkers into chess.

Oline should be simple, you block or hold the guy in front of you.  In the running game you hammer his ass.

We take guys with good skill sets and make them think too much.

The zone schemes worked great for some teams when it first came out and the teams had no injuries and great continuity.

Part of the issue?  Our zone blocking guys get totally over powered at the point of attack.  Out big guys are not allowed to just road grade the guy in front of you.

When a guy in a man blocking scheme gets beat the other player has to at least go through your body.  with zone if you make a mistake a guy gets a 100% free trip to kill the QB.

[Guilhermezmc]

I 100% agree with you, so far the only thing Joe Douglas has done right is get value on his trades. 

It will look worse when 5 of his first 9 draft picks won't make the team next year.

I don't get his logic in free agency, not going all in for the top guys but overpaying for other teams backups.

The thing that pisses me off is that he is like we're not going to pay Robby Anderson 8m a year but we're going in free agency and giving George "who the f is this guy" Fant 10m a year. We're not paying Marcus Maye or Jamal Adams to draft a nobody from California (in that case traded Leonard Williams for Ashtyn Davis).  

At the end of the day it doesn't matter if he has 100m in cap space and 20 draft picks, so far he showed that he doesn't know how to use resources available to him. He is very good at trading away talent but not very good at finding it.

[jeremy2020]

Look, JD had a plan. He's executing that plan. I'm starting to think we should execute him.

I'm fine that JD does not seem to be far enough along on his plan, but all the people who flip flopped from "JD needs six years to make the playoffs" to now "Should we fire him?" after 1 game are ridiculous. 

Last week, he couldn't be criticized and I got trashed for saying he shouldn't get a pass for this year. Now there's pitchforks. Make up your minds. 

[jetstream23]

29 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Was about to start ranting before i saw this post - and thought I can just borrow it

  

 

But for those preaching patience -- why don't you list WHAT has been going well...

• Trades

That's all I got. Certainly hasn't been his "Oline" prowess. Fcking disaster actually. The players seem engaged, but is that the coaching staff? How well is the staff doing, really... I think they like Saleh, but how long does that keep oil flowing.... 

I'm genuinely looking for some reflection -- is Douglas managing this team well, or do we just really really really want to believe he is.? 

 

 

You ( and @Green Ghost ) hit it right down the middle of the fairway here.  Mims needs playing time and unless there's a true medical or disciplinary reason he's being held out then there is serious mismanagement going on.  If JD drafted a player like Mims knowing that he can't play in the NFL's second or third most utilized system then that's a really, really bad use of a 2nd round draft choice.  WRs run routes and occasionally need to block, maybe moreso in this outside/wide zone offense.  But man, get the guy some reps!  The hard part to stomach here (salmon joke not intended) is that Mims is emblematic of the 2020 Draft class but is really one of the guys who seems to have actually earned more opportunities.

The 2020 Draft is looking worse by the day unfortunately.  Injuries are an unfortunate part of football but just about every single player drafted has had significant injury problems to go along with questionable performance.  I'm not just talking about missing a game or two... or three.  Becton, Mims, Davis, Zuniga, Clark, etc. have all missed (or will miss) what?  20%, 40% or more of this season or last season?  Heck, even the damn punter is getting hurt and Perine was out yesterday too.

With all of this said, I actually do think this offensive scheme is going to be something that takes a few weeks (maybe half the season) to find it's groove.  The footwork, timing, cadence and rhythm of the OL has to be damn near perfect for this thing to look good.  It's the biggest factor in the outside/wide zone blocking scheme.  And, the timing and understanding of the "one cut" RB has to be synchronized as well.  All of this takes lots of reps.

I don't think the personnel is horrible on the OL.  I just don't know if it's very good.  Hard to tell at this point.  But I'm questioning LaFleur and the rest of the coaches on O right now.  Zach seemed ready and prepared and there were some bright spots from Corey Davis, etc.  But everyone else seemed unprepared, Moore was dropping passes, Michael Carter dropped a pass, etc.  The OL couldn't handle stunts, twists or the internal "games" that pass rushers play.  I just don't know if that's because of the scheme or not.  But none of it is an excuse for the use of Mims which I still don't understand.

 

[thshadow]

I know we want to predict, but I think the clear answer at this point is "too early to tell".  There's no way to make any judgment at all on Saleh and staff at this point, after 1 game.  His draft this year might have been really good - helped partially by his good trades to get more picks - but again, no way you can make anything close to a definitive judgment.

WRT what he did well, I also think the FAs he signed this year were good. Corey Davis might be an actual #1.  And then I guess it depends a lot on whether you credit him for signing Carl Lawson, or not, based on the injury.  Moses was a good pickup too.

I think he's made many high value moves.  But (in particular with FA) at some point he has to turn around and use that money / extra draft picks on something good.

[extmenace]

I'm sorry but some of you guys are over reacting here. The team just played their first game of the season. The jets have a rookie head coach, are implementing a new offense and defense all while rostering the youngest team in the NFL. Yea, it would have been awesome to pull out a week 1 win but lets not pretend Saleh is taking over the saints or some other team where the engine is already warmed up and ready to go. We're in a rebuild mode. There has not been enough time to praise or criticize the majority of his decisions. I will reserve judgement for the later part of the season. Lets see how this team looks towards the end of the season. 

[jetstream23]

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[Guilhermezmc]

6 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

Look, JD had a plan. He's executing that plan. I'm starting to think we should execute him.

I'm fine that JD does not seem to be far enough along on his plan, but all the people who flip flopped from "JD needs six years to make the playoffs" to now "Should we fire him?" after 1 game are ridiculous. 

Last week, he couldn't be criticized and I got trashed for saying he shouldn't get a pass for this year. Now there's pitchforks. Make up your minds. 

Nah bro, he had 3 years to fix this oline and it was the main reason he was hired, yesterday his oline was ranked 32nd in the league.

His fixes have been a retired 35 year old center, Dan Feeney, a Seattle backup, GVR, and overpaying for a mediocre center whos better suited playing guard.

Edit: I forgot about the WRs that we had none, and his fix was to let our only decent WR go because he wanted to save money to overpay for other people trash and backups

[Warfish]

48 minutes ago, Paradis said:

But for those preaching patience -- why don't you list WHAT has been going well...

Very little. 

But what do you want to DO about it right now, exactly, apart from complain?

Rookie Head Coach - One game in, 0-1.  Hard to really evaluate at this point, 2nd half better than first, been a while since we saw that here, lol.

Rookie O-Co - One Game in, ranked 25th in points, 27th in Yards (with two teams yet to play, so could drop 2 more slots to 27 and 29).  Not so great, especially OL and Running game.  Still, slightly better than last year's 32nd/32nd rankings.

Rookie QB - One Game in, 54%, 258 Yards, 2 TD, 1 INT.  Not too shabby given how pressured he was.

So again, what do you want to DO one game in to 2021 under an entirely new staff, with a new QB, and much of a new roster?

I preach patience only because we're not going to do anything during the 2021 season.  No firings.  No cut prominent players.  No dumping JD.

We're going to have to evaluate the team and JD at year's end.  If, at that point, if all JD's moves prove to have sucked, by all means, demand his firing.  I doubt you'll get it from Woody, but demand away.

I preach patience because we have no choice, and judging JD's 2021 moves after one game seems, premature at best.

[RoadFan]

15 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Re the oline, I have said this before and I'll say it again.  I hate the zone blocking scheme.  It turns checkers into chess.

Oline should be simple, you block or hold the guy in front of you.  In the running game you hammer his ass.

We take guys with good skill sets and make them think too much.

The zone schemes worked great for some teams when it first came out and the teams had no injuries and great continuity.

Part of the issue?  Our zone blocking guys get totally over powered at the point of attack.  Out big guys are not allowed to just road grade the guy in front of you.

When a guy in a man blocking scheme gets beat the other player has to at least go through your body.  with zone if you make a mistake a guy gets a 100% free trip to kill the QB.

Interesting stuff.  The OL is a tragedy.  Hoping it’s a continuity issue.  If JD was drafting skills for Gase’s offense, whatever tf that was…

Now he has to draft for the Shanny/Lafleur offense which requires a different skill set.

The problem with the continuity theory is that JD’s 2021 free agent acquisitions on the OL suck too.

[Larz]

I’m starting to feel that he’s taking advantage of the ownership situation to craft a 4 year rebuild that peaks when it’s time for a contract extension. 
That’s not ideal but at least it would mean that he’s trying to win at some point lol. 
 

The rub of course is as he collects draft picks,  are his draft picks working out?

That would also mean wasting the first two years of Wilson’s contract, and was it the right time in the process to take a QB?

The alternative is terrifying  , If this is his attempt at putting together a roster that can win games  there are as many weaknesses this year as there were last year. 
 

I really don’t think it is though  teams typically like to have $8 million or so for in season injuries and the Jets have $14 million in cap space  and if you look at what he’s done since Lewis retired, he hasn’t done anything noteworthy to adjust to the losses and the roster just keeps deteriorating right in front of our eyes   So this is a competitive tank that’s not competitive. 

My biggest fear is that ownership is happy to watch from the owners box but fans have had it. 10 years without a big game in December 

TEN !!!!!

All off season I was waiting for a Corner, TE, and FB to be brought in to bolster the team  

he seemed to really get caught with his pants down on cut down day and wound up holding the bag  

Where is the veteran backup QB ? 
 

Mike White? 
 

seriously?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JTJet]

This is being way over thought. WAY over thought. 

He is clearly in the doghouse for what he is/is not doing behind the scenes and the coaching staff seems to preach playing not just the young guys, but the guys that deserve to play. 

You claim he "deserves" it, but frankly that thought is based solely off of what you see form 1 catch on the tv screen, which is 5% of Denzel Mims. Coaching staff sees the other 95% and doesnt think he deserves it. 

This isn't hard to understand. We as fans, refuse to accept what the situation is, especially because we are in the dark more than the previous years. 

[kdels62]

Zach Wilson is nice and it looks like we might draft Tyler Linderbaum next year and that makes me emotional. 

[Guilhermezmc]

1 minute ago, kdels62 said:

Zach Wilson is nice and it looks like we might draft Tyler Linderbaum next year and that makes me emotional. 

How has tyler been playing this year? I watched some of his tape last year and really liked, i would like for him to beef up a little more, but everything else looks good to me.

[JTJet]

Jets fans: 

Year 1: Gotta give him more than 1 year.

Year 2: Gotta give him more than 2 years. Look what he started with and/or is surrounded with. 

Year 3: Gotta give him more than 3 years, it's a hell of a rebuild. Players need time to develop. 

Year 4: WTF is going on!!! **** this guy, I've been telling everyone for years we gotta move on. 

Rinse. Repeat. 

[Warfish]

8 minutes ago, Larz said:

I’m starting to feel that he’s taking advantage of the ownership situation to craft a 4 year rebuild that peaks when it’s time for a contract extension. 

[#27TheDominator]

Everybody has a right to complain, but it is pretty early. 

Regarding Mims, everybody gets all happy that the coaches demand accountability and meritocracy.  Then Mims is on the bench and we DEMAND he get playing time.  Maybe he isn't doing what he is supposed to.  Maybe he is lost.  He certainly still has potential, but I let the coaches decide who gets on the field.

It's only one game.  Plenty of times the Jets have started off gangbusters and sucked.  Remember 2018, putting up 48 on the Lions with a rookie QB?  How'd that turnout.  It's early.  The oline takes cohesion and these guys did not play together much in camp.  The system is newer and that certainly seems to be a major part of the issue.

I can see questioning the draft, but I don't think losing a bunch of 2020 picks should be a huge deal.  That draft was a crap shoot to begin with, but the Jets switched coaches and systems.  Plenty of guys get swept in and out with that.  He hasn't picked many guys I really wanted.  In fact, Mims and Pinnock were probably the 2 guys I knew I liked before the draft, but I think we have to see how it plays out.  Totally get the complaints though.

[Icer]

This is the second year of a full rebuild with like 20 something first/second year players on the 53 man roster. Too soon to say anything other than the Oline looks bad and is likely to get our QB hurt.

[sourceworx]

- Traded Jamal instead of compounding Mac's error. 

- Cut bait on Sam once it became apparent he wasn't the guy, as opposed to continuing to trot him out there in hopes of him figuring it out.

- Focused on the offense in the off-season. When was the last time THAT happened?

- Went after a top pass-rusher in free agency. If you're going to spend big money on free agents, spend it there. 

- Most importantly, the QB he picked looks like he might be for real.

JD isn't exempt from blame. His draft last year isn't looking great right now. It's perfectly fair to criticize that. But I'm willing to let him execute his plan. We can't keep firing guys the second something doesn't go our way.

[Guilhermezmc]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Everybody has a right to complain, but it is pretty early. 

Regarding Mims, everybody gets all happy that the coaches demand accountability and meritocracy.  Then Mims is on the bench and we DEMAND he get playing time.  Maybe he isn't doing what he is supposed to.  Maybe he is lost.  He certainly still has potential, but I let the coaches decide who gets on the field.

 

So by this standards Mekhi Becton giving up 2-3 sacks per practice should've got him on the bench, right?

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, JTJet said:

Jets fans: 

Year 1: Gotta give him more than 1 year.

Year 2: Gotta give him more than 2 years. Look what he started with and/or is surrounded with. 

Year 3: Gotta give him more than 3 years, it's a hell of a rebuild. Players need time to develop. 

Year 4: WTF is going on!!! **** this guy, I've been telling everyone for years we gotta move on. 

Rinse. Repeat. 

Counter-Argument:

JD Year 1 - Stuck with Gase, came on very late, didn't run draft, few moves of his own. 

JD Year 2 - Stuck with Gase, Draft looks poor to middlin, moves mostly look poor to middlin.

JD Year 3 - New Head Coach, New O-Co, New QB, New System, Mostly New Roster.  One game in.

I'm willing to give the JD team this year (2021) before making a call on wanting him fired.  

I just have a hard time, given the breadth of this rebuild post-Gase, to evaluate JD based on one game with his new team, coaches and players.

He indeed might suck.  One game isn't going to tell that tale or not. 

Same way a 41-3 win yesterday wouldn't have made JD exec of the year either.

 

[BroadwayRay]

What are you complaining about, exactly? Really curious, because for things to "not be going well," things have to be, um, going. We are one game into a 17-game season. Kind of like complaining about your race horse a second after the starting pistol is fired. So again, what are you complaining about other than the OL playing like sh*t in the first game or the Jets not drafting the guys you wanted?

[kdels62]

9 minutes ago, Guilhermezmc said:

How has tyler been playing this year? I watched some of his tape last year and really liked, i would like for him to beef up a little more, but everything else looks good to me.

He’s just so good. My goodness, just so radiant.

[Paradis]

33 minutes ago, extmenace said:

I'm sorry but some of you guys are over reacting here. The team just played their first game of the season. The jets have a rookie head coach, are implementing a new offense and defense all while rostering the youngest team in the NFL.  

 

Are we though? Is that what ppl tell each other when it doesn't go well.

Sean McVay & Goff and the 2017 LA rams.... Anyone advocating for "hold the line" should at least look how they managed their Oline... why don't you tell me if they rolled the dice on rookies, and a bunch of 2nd team guys like Van Rotten and Fant.

Either end (youth or Peaked) of the talent/roster spectrum is foolhardy. 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

I think JD deserves blame for several things, but he’s still the best gm we’ve had that actually has a clue about what positions to prioritize on the roster. He prioritizes elite athleticism and is great at trading and has loaded us up with a ton of assets next year in what is likely to be a deep draft class. 

That being said, his 2020 draft looks pretty bad overall. I’m still high on Elijah Moore, but there was a number of promising OL prospects he passed up in the 2nd and 3rd rounds that could have helped this team at position of desperate need. 

I also have had a problem with how he has approached free agency. GVR and McGovern shouldn’t have just been the presumed starters after the years they had last year. 

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

I don't think the personnel is horrible on the OL.  I just don't know if it's very good. 

This is everything, right here.

We just don't know...

and we fcking should by September 2021. He's held office for 2 years. 

2 years.

WHY don't we know?  We still have no idea if you can protect him.

[SOJ]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Most fans including myself were expecting better results yesterday. 

JD did a lot of moving and shaking many new faces. 

On a positive note last season  the NY Jets would have lost that game in the first half and never stood a chance in the 4th quarter. 

They only stood a chance because the panthers letup on the gas in the second half esp. on O.  It was watching replay of AG calling plays. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

3 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I get to the rest later - but you could have a whole book written about this line right here.

We just don't know... and we fcking should by September 2021. He's held office for 2 years. 

2 years.

WHY don't we fcking know. You blew your load on the Mormon and still have no idea if you can protect him. I'm getting hot just talking about it. It's horsesh*t - this guy is making more in 1 year than I'll make over the next 10. He has one job.

We do know. Becton and AVT are probably fine, but pups.

 McGovern and GVR are terrible and need to be replaced. And should have been this past offseason but he was too cheap. So now we just hope they gel and get their act together. 
 

He spent two first rounders on OL. Fine. Needs to be more aggressive in getting prevent veteran talent while you can.