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PFF's ranking of top 10 players to start a franchise with

maury77

By maury77
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maury77

maury77

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12 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I don't really see how any of them made it on merit. Lawrence and Fields in particular didn't look the part at all this year.

If you read the article, there are certain stats from both that they deemed to show the promise is there. 

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UntouchableCrew

UntouchableCrew

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1 minute ago, maury77 said:

If you read the article, there are certain stats from both that they deemed to show the promise is there. 

Sure, I just don't really trust a lot of their subjective stats.

I wanted Fields over Wilson at draft time so this isn't some Wilson defending crusade as much as not buying this projection.

Like, warts and all what have Fields or Jones done to justify ranking them ahead of Lamar Jackson? Flawed player sure, but he's a former MVP. And legal trouble aside, Watson is clearly someone you'd rather roll with on a go forward if you wanted to win.

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HawkeyeJet

HawkeyeJet

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This begs an interesting hypothetical.  Forget the Lawrence/Fields/Wilson Debate for a minute.

If you were handed the keys to an expansion franchise tomorrow, are you honestly taking them over a guy like Rodgers?  The trade off is yes, you may only get 3 years of Aaron Rodgers, and 10 years of the others, but any of those dudes could wind up being wash outs.  At least with Rodgers you know you could chase a title for 3 years.

Ultimately I think it boils down to something I see as problematic in todays sports viewpoints.  Everyone wants to chase this notion of 10 years of greatness.  Which certainly can happen.  But if you had say an 80% chance at 4 very good years and 10% chance at 10 sustained years of success, would you chose that over a 50% chances of short term failure to increase your long term success chances to say 25%?

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oatmeal

oatmeal

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“Generational” Lawrence has looked the worst of the bunch, threw the former coach under the bus and wants a say in coaching hires… And this is all in his rookie year… 

you think I’m starting a franchise with a kid like that??? ????

 

I’m not surprised, I watched all season these fool justify Lawrence being terrible vs trashing Zach with limited excuses 

 

PFF is clown shoes ? 

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UntouchableCrew

UntouchableCrew

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20 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

This begs an interesting hypothetical.  Forget the Lawrence/Fields/Wilson Debate for a minute.

If you were handed the keys to an expansion franchise tomorrow, are you honestly taking them over a guy like Rodgers?  The trade off is yes, you may only get 3 years of Aaron Rodgers, and 10 years of the others, but any of those dudes could wind up being wash outs.  At least with Rodgers you know you could chase a title for 3 years.

Ultimately I think it boils down to something I see as problematic in todays sports viewpoints.  Everyone wants to chase this notion of 10 years of greatness.  Which certainly can happen.  But if you had say an 80% chance at 4 very good years and 10% chance at 10 sustained years of success, would you chose that over a 50% chances of short term failure to increase your long term success chances to say 25%?

I was thinking this too -- less about Rodgers and more about Russell Wilson. 

But I agree, slam dunk on a guy who has fewer years left feels like more of a win to me than a rookie who basically sucked.

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peekskill68

peekskill68

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1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

This begs an interesting hypothetical.  Forget the Lawrence/Fields/Wilson Debate for a minute.

If you were handed the keys to an expansion franchise tomorrow, are you honestly taking them over a guy like Rodgers?  The trade off is yes, you may only get 3 years of Aaron Rodgers, and 10 years of the others, but any of those dudes could wind up being wash outs.  At least with Rodgers you know you could chase a title for 3 years.

Ultimately I think it boils down to something I see as problematic in todays sports viewpoints.  Everyone wants to chase this notion of 10 years of greatness.  Which certainly can happen.  But if you had say an 80% chance at 4 very good years and 10% chance at 10 sustained years of success, would you chose that over a 50% chances of short term failure to increase your long term success chances to say 25%?

Denver went with the 4 year model signing Peyton Manning.  Worked out very well for them (although to be fair, Von Miller won that SB for them)

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TuscanyTile2

TuscanyTile2

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3 hours ago, maury77 said:

3 of the rookie QBs from the 2021 draft made it. 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-rankings-top-10-nfl-players-franchise-2022

Mac Jones and Fields ahead of Lamar Jackson?!  GTFO!

And Trevor Lawrence might be thought of highly but it's still a pretty big reach to put him ahead of LJ.

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TuscanyTile2

TuscanyTile2

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29 minutes ago, rangerous said:

fields?  huh?  of those guys, if i was starting a franchise i think i'd opt for lamar jackson.  i think he give the best chance of winning right out of the box.  mahomes would be a close second.

You'd take Mahomes just like everyone else would.

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HawkeyeJet

HawkeyeJet

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13 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

Denver went with the 4 year model signing Peyton Manning.  Worked out very well for them (although to be fair, Von Miller won that SB for them)

Tampa is doing it right now as well.  They pry have another year or 2 in this window here and after that they will crash back down to earth most likely.  Absolutely nothing wrong with this path.   I’m sure their fans are more than satisfied.

Just from a fans perspective though, being a Steelers fan(as an example) for the past 10 years is probably almost as acceptable.  Haven’t won the big one in the last 10 years, but have played so many meaningful games that every season they probably have high entertainment value.  Contrast that to the Bucs who were on a decade+ long playoff drought prior to last year.  

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peekskill68

peekskill68

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1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Tampa is doing it right now as well.  They pry have another year or 2 in this window here and after that they will crash back down to earth most likely.  Absolutely nothing wrong with this path.   I’m sure their fans are more than satisfied.

Just from a fans perspective though, being a Steelers fan(as an example) for the past 10 years is probably almost as acceptable.  Haven’t won the big one in the last 10 years, but have played so many meaningful games that every season they probably have high entertainment value.  Contrast that to the Bucs who were on a decade+ long playoff drought prior to last year.  

Good point.  Even without going to the big dance, you could make the case that the 10 year stretch from Parcells to the two good Rex years was a great time to be a Jets fan...

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Hael

Hael

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Burrows, Herbert and Mahomes are insanely good and are like the Montana, Marino, Elway of the 2020s.  They’ll be around for years.

I do think Mac Jones is going to be a consistent top ten (but not top 5) qb.  He’s the second coming of Pennington and will likely have a Mat Ryan trajectory (wins a lot of regular season games, but isnt quite good enough to win the playoffs).

Josh Allen will also be a big problem for us.  I can’t quite place him yet.  Will he be the next Big Ben or the next Stafford.

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rangerous

rangerous

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17 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

You'd take Mahomes just like everyone else would.

I’m not 100% sure on that. Mahommes is certainly one of the best but there are other factors like what the rest of the team looks like. Jackson just brings that running ability and can make plays on his own.

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neckdemon

neckdemon

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37 minutes ago, rangerous said:

I’m not 100% sure on that. Mahommes is certainly one of the best but there are other factors like what the rest of the team looks like. Jackson just brings that running ability and can make plays on his own.

as soon as he loses 1/2 step he will be about as good as mike vick was when it happened to him

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rangerous

rangerous

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34 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

as soon as he loses 1/2 step he will be about as good as mike vick was when it happened to him

That’s true too. But he’d be pretty exciting to watch. He’d put fannies in the seats.  Mahommes does too. I don’t watch much football besides the jets but will watch a game mahommes is playing in.

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