The Stupid "Don't mortgage the future" argument

[56mehl56]

7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

There are no guarantees either way, but I'm for taking the best chance they have while they have it.

The overall cap cost isn't as great as it seems on the surface, since Rodgers requires less help around him. Imagine the likely results of putting one of JG or Carr on Green Bay 2022 and no one would want either one for half the price. GB had 1 rookie WR; force-fed a WR3 into their WR1; their mega-expensive LT only started & finished 8 games; their higher draft pick center sucks; Runyan isn't half the player his father was; they still were giving 37 year old Marcedes Lewis half the TE snaps (the other half going to another nobody you wouldn't have heard of if Rodgers wasn't drilling passes between his numbers from 10 yards away). 

The other two bigger name candidates on that team? Consider Carr just put up Rodgers' career worst numbers with Davante Adams & more, and got outright benched. That offense should've been at worst top 5, looking at the personnel. And even with his recent major letdown, Carr's still my distant 2nd-favorite, with JG a much further distant 3rd (if even that) because he probably won't last 5 games & we'll be right back to where we were this season, minus Mike White to give 2 weeks of hope in between.

By the time the rest of this "the right way" build is done just-so, after 1 more year they're going to lose Huff when his RFA season is up; after 2 more years, Garrett Wilson, Sauce, and maybe Hall will want extensions after their 3rd seasons like so many other premiere players (we haven't had to deal with that in a while). AVT won't be far behind them; ditto Moore if he takes a leap forward with much better QB play & play calling in general. And that's after they do extend QW.

The rainy day we're saving for may just end up being treading of water with a 2-game improvement until, before you know it, the Jets have to extend & re-sign this same young core of players at much higher dollars & that unique window is closed absent them getting luckier than they've ever been on drafting a worthy FQB. 

Anyway that's my take.

Do you seriously think this current team with AR is a SB contender?  If you don't then AR makes no sense to trade for. 

[rangerous]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

There are no guarantees either way, but I'm for taking the best chance they have while they have it.

The overall cap cost isn't as great as it seems on the surface, since Rodgers requires less help around him. Imagine the likely results of putting one of JG or Carr on Green Bay 2022 and no one would want either one for half the price. GB had 1 rookie WR; force-fed a WR3 into their WR1; their mega-expensive LT only started & finished 8 games; their higher draft pick center sucks; Runyan isn't half the player his father was; they still were giving 37 year old Marcedes Lewis half the TE snaps (the other half going to another nobody you wouldn't have heard of if Rodgers wasn't drilling passes between his numbers from 10 yards away). 

The other two bigger name candidates on that team? Consider Carr just put up Rodgers' career worst numbers with Davante Adams & more, and got outright benched. That offense should've been at worst top 5, looking at the personnel. And even with his recent major letdown, Carr's still my distant 2nd-favorite, with JG a much further distant 3rd (if even that) because he probably won't last 5 games & we'll be right back to where we were this season, minus Mike White to give 2 weeks of hope in between.

By the time the rest of this "the right way" build is done just-so, after 1 more year they're going to lose Huff when his RFA season is up; after 2 more years, Garrett Wilson, Sauce, and maybe Hall will want extensions after their 3rd seasons like so many other premiere players (we haven't had to deal with that in a while). AVT won't be far behind them; ditto Moore if he takes a leap forward with much better QB play & play calling in general. And that's after they do extend QW.

The rainy day we're saving for may just end up being treading of water with a 2-game improvement until, before you know it, the Jets have to extend & re-sign this same young core of players at much higher dollars & that unique window is closed absent them getting luckier than they've ever been on drafting a worthy FQB. 

Anyway that's my take.

right.  it seems to me much of the right way to build has been accomplished.  the jets have a really nice core group of players and it's only fair that douglas rewards this group by giving them the best possible chance to get the gold ring.  and who's to know if douglas won't continue his drafting for as long as he's gm.  as you pointed out, in two seasons we're going to see these very good young players wanting new contracts.  now's the time when the jets have them exclusively.  time to take advantage of the prosperity.

[Lith]

The "Don'tmortgage the future" argument is not stupid.  I just don't think it applies to this team in 2023.  It has been 12 years since our last playoff appearance.  We are still the butt of jokes around the league.  This team desperately needs some credibility -- and that means trying to get to the playoffs in 2023.  And once you are in , who knows.

I have been waiting patiently long enough.  Go get AR or to a lesser degree DC and lets get to the playoffs.  There are no guarantees no matter how we approach it, but I would like to see a sense of urgency this offseason.

[y2k8]

38 minutes ago, thebuzzardman said:

7 wins and it's time to push all the chips in the middle of the table. What a time to be alive. 

If Aaron Rodgers were the QB of the 2022 NY Jets, they would have been a 12 win team. I count a minimum of 5 games the Jets lost that they would have won with a good QB running the offense.

[56mehl56]

3 minutes ago, Lith said:

Th "Don'tmortgage the future" is not stupid.  I just don't think it applies to this team in 2023.  It has been 12 years since our last playoff appearance.  We are still the butt of jokes around the league.  This team desperately needs some credibility -- and that means trying to get to the playoffs in 2023.  And once you are in , who knows.

I have been waiting patiently long enough.  Go get AR or to a lesser degree DC and lets get to the playoffs.  There are no guarantees no matter how we approach it, but I would like to see a sense of urgency this offseason.

Carr would certainly come with cap implications but he wouldn't require draft capital which is crucial for this team to continue to plug the holes that exist today. I'd even consider a Tannehill or Brisset before going the Rodgers route. Decent QB play can get this team to the playoffs and still allow them JD and team to evolve their plan. AR is a stick of dynamite which has the potential of blowing it all up. 

[56mehl56]

Just now, y2k8 said:

If Aaron Rodgers were the QB of the 2022 NY Jets, they would have been a 12 win team. I count a minimum of 5 games the Jets lost that they would have won with a good QB running the offense.

What Jets on the 2022 wouldn't have been there if they had traded for Rodgers. Probably no GW and maybe no Brece Hall. 

[Bronxville Jets Fan]

I don’t have a problem with the concept of the Jets trading two first-rounders for a veteran QB.  My issue is doing it for a 40yo declining QB without any assurance that he will play more than one year.   

It’s just a much different conversation, to me at least, if we were discussing trading for a QB in their prime like Lamar Jackson or Desean Watson (pre-scandal and suspension).  Douglas has to make this trade involve conditional draft picks because we need protection against his play falling off a cliff and/or retiring after next season.

[32EBoozer]

3 hours ago, y2k8 said:

I'm old enough to remember the Favre year. It was glorious until it wasn't.

Of course we know there are no guarantees in life. Things can and will go wrong.

But my only regret for the year with Favre was that they didn't convince him to come back for year 2 and 3.

I'd have already had my SuperBowl if he stayed longer.

 

I remember Vinny T & Favre..... what could have been if they didn't get injured!

[the Claw]

16 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

If Aaron Rodgers were the QB of the 2022 NY Jets, they would have been a 12 win team. I count a minimum of 5 games the Jets lost that they would have won with a good QB running the offense.

You can’t put Rogers on the 22 Jets because they’d also be losing 1st and or 2nd round draft picks. So AR minus Garrett Wilson and/or Gardener and/or Hall. That’s not a 12 win team.

[GangGreened]

59 minutes ago, thebuzzardman said:

7 wins and it's time to push all the chips in the middle of the table. What a time to be alive. 

Losing the last 6 to finish the season to top it all off.

Jobs are on the line though, Saleh and Douglas know they need every win they can muster up in 23

[56mehl56]

2 minutes ago, GangGreened said:

Losing the last 6 to finish the season to top it all off.

Jobs are on the line though, Saleh and Douglas know they need every win they can muster up in 23

So are you saying the Jets would trade for AR to save JD and RS jobs , Or they are trading for him to win a SB , because those are two entirely different things. 

[Sperm Edwards]

27 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Do you seriously think this current team with AR is a SB contender?  If you don't then AR makes no sense to trade for. 

Yes, I seriously do.

The team looked like it could beat almost anybody after that Bills game, and that was with ****ing Wilson at QB and all those OL injuries they'd already endured.

WILL it happen? It's never that simple no matter who's added to any team.

With an actual great QB and - with his faults included, a more experienced OC - this team doesn't need nearly as many pieces as some make out. Every championship team has weaknesses and non-probowlers and non-1st rounders starting. 

[56mehl56]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

Yes, I seriously do.

The team looked like it could beat almost anybody after that Bills game, and that was with ****ing Wilson at QB and all those OL injuries they'd already endured.

WILL it happen? It's never that simple no matter who's added to any team.

With an actual great QB and - with his faults included, a more experienced OC - this team doesn't need nearly as many pieces as some make out. Every championship team has weaknesses and non-probowlers and non-1st rounders starting. 

And I thought I was a Jets homer . 

[RoadFan]

Agree with OP.  There is no future without a QB.

But Carr and keeping premium draft picks sounds better to me than Rodgers and trading them…

 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yes, I seriously do.

The team looked like it could beat almost anybody after that Bills game, and that was with ****ing Wilson at QB and all those OL injuries they'd already endured.

WILL it happen? It's never that simple no matter who's added to any team.

With an actual great QB and - with his faults included, a more experienced OC - this team doesn't need nearly as many pieces as some make out. Every championship team has weaknesses and non-probowlers and non-1st rounders starting. 

The jets may also feel that getting back all the guys from injury would compensate for trading a first.  Becton, hall, AVT and mitchell - plus any FAs they sign - would offset not taking a LT at pick 13. 

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, RoadFan said:

Agree with OP.  There is no future without a QB.

But Carr and keeping premiumpicks sounds better to me than Rodgers and trading them…

 

This is the answer for me.  Carr is almost as good as Rodgers is right now imo, far less expensive contract wise or cost to obtain wise and will be far less of a pain in the ass player.

Rodgers is not coming off an mvp year, he is coming off almost his worst year as a QB.  His stats down the stretch were crapola.  This totally has russel wilson vibe all over it for me.

[thebuzzardman]

1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

We were 7-4 at one point before horrendous QB play doomed us.

I think some people are downplaying how much of a difference a QB the caliber of Rodgers makes, even bordering on 40 years old.

People are acting like he fell off a cliff or something last year even though he finished with 3700 yards, 26 TD’s and 12 INT’s despite playing most of the year with a screwed up thumb.

The two previous seasons he won back to back league MVP’s with a combined 85 TD’s to 9 INT’s.

Father Time remains undefeated. The Jets, on the other hand, are rarely victorious. 

[LSJF]

4 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

I don't understand Jet fans sometimes. They hord money and draft picks like they are managing their kids 529 account when in reality the money belongs to the guy  they swear they hate, Woody Johnson, and draft picks outside of 2022 have done very little to ever help this franchise. Remmeber how we spent 2 years teraring down and tanking to get Zach. Yes that was smart. 

So here is why we should 100 percent "mortgage the future"

1) The Jets have a top 5 defense. The window on that type of defense is 2-3 years usually looking around the league. Defense is important, and more important in late season and playoff football. You can't underestimate this. 

2) Breece Hall, Garret Wilson year 2. Elijiah Moore year 3. Uzomah waiting to be unleashed. This offsense has weapons and CAN score with competent QB play, let alone star QB play a guy like Rodgers would provide. 

3) Contracts. All this rookie and 2nd year talent will be asking for extensions come 24 and 25. We simply will not be able to pay them all. OUR WINDOW IS NOW

4) The Jets arent rebuilding anymore, they are in execution phase. Losing a first rounder this year or in 24 is not a game changer or hurt the chances moving forward. If JD is all we may or you make him out to be he should be able to find starters in round 2-3 and depth beyond. 

The Jets need to be aggresive and absolutly mortgage the future. A Superbowl, a deep playoff run will bring legitimacy to this team and the rest will take care of itself. YES NOW IS THE TIME TO GO TO THE BANK AND ASK FOR THAT MORTGAGE. Our franchise depends upon it. 

Great post

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, 56mehl56 said:

And I thought I was a Jets homer . 

I'm hardly a homer. This team - with dog***t at QB - was 5-2 then 6-3 then 7-4 playing musical chairs at both tackle positions with a first time OC getting into petty feuds with his WRs. FFS they were starting 5th or 6th string tackles at points, and still were in a very realistic playoff hunt in December but for the crappy QB play.

They don't need so much more than they have, and whatever's needed to clear is very clearable by nonessential veterans who are making way too much for their on-field worth.

From a rookie RT tossed out there instead of riding the pine like expected, to Flacco throwing 50-60x/week, to Wilson then needing to be hidden at a fraction of that -- with all that, this team was still within a game of leading the division past the halfway mark. 

I don't think they have zero chance of building a winner without Rodgers, but the track record isn't good thus far & I feel it's like trying to score a TD by converting 9 first downs in a row instead of taking a shot on a deep TD pass when the opportunity presents itself.

No guarantees either way.

[Darnold's Forehead]

23 minutes ago, Bronxville Jets Fan said:

I don’t have a problem with the concept of the Jets trading two first-rounders for a veteran QB.  My issue is doing it for a 40yo declining QB without any assurance that he will play more than one year.   

It’s just a much different conversation, to me at least, if we were discussing trading for a QB in their prime like Lamar Jackson or Desean Watson (pre-scandal and suspension).  Douglas has to make this trade involve conditional draft picks because we need protection against his play falling off a cliff and/or retiring after next season.

I am genuinely curious… What do we need protection from?  We have had nothing.  This franchise has had a terminal issue regarding the QB.  If he comes here and flunks for 2 years, then it’ll be a needed regime change.  Only thing is we’ll be down a couple draft picks, but the hope is that some of our young players will be bona fide studs by then.  And who knows, maybe Zach can salvage his career from watching him.

No one knows if Rodgers is declining.  He is 1 year removed from being the back to back league MVP and played from week 5 onward with a broken thumb.  At the very least, he can limp his way under center with his walker and diagnose a defense pre-snap.  He is a very special player who can still make plays with his brain and his arm. It is a risk you have to take, because this franchise offers no other solution.

[Untouchable]

16 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yes, I seriously do.

The team looked like it could beat almost anybody after that Bills game, and that was with ****ing Wilson at QB and all those OL injuries they'd already endured.

WILL it happen? It's never that simple no matter who's added to any team.

With an actual great QB and - with his faults included, a more experienced OC - this team doesn't need nearly as many pieces as some make out. Every championship team has weaknesses and non-probowlers and non-1st rounders starting. 

Exactly 

And for the people saying “omg our OL is awful it would all be for naught”…

First of all, no it isn’t.

The OL when healthy was smashing the piss out of teams when we were on that hot streak in the middle of the season.

And Aaron Rodgers has been consistently dealing with a banged up, shuffled around OL for multiple years now. During his back to back MVP seasons in 2020/2021, his pro-bowl LT played in a combined 13 games, his all-pro center walked after 2020 and he proceeded to win another MVP taking snaps from a rookie, etc.

A great QB like Rodgers doesn’t need some impervious brick wall in front of him. Give the dude just “decent” protection and watch him cook.

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm hardly a homer. This team - with dog***t at QB - was 5-2 then 6-3 then 7-4 playing musical chairs at both tackle positions with a first time OC getting into petty feuds with his WRs. FFS they were starting 5th or 6th string tackles at points, and still were in a very realistic playoff hunt in December but for the crappy QB play.

They don't need so much more than they have, and whatever's needed to clear is very clearable by nonessential veterans who are making way too much for their on-field worth.

From a rookie RT tossed out there instead of riding the pine like expected, to Flacco throwing 50-60x/week, to Wilson then needing to be hidden at a fraction of that -- with all that, this team was still within a game of leading the division past the halfway mark. 

I don't think they have zero chance of building a winner without Rodgers, but the track record isn't good thus far & I feel it's like trying to score a TD by converting 9 first downs in a row instead of taking a shot on a deep TD pass when the opportunity presents itself.

No guarantees either way.

I agree no guarantees with any option.  But I ask myself outside of Buffalo what quality team did the Jets beat last season. To get to the SB they  likely need to go through comobs of ( Allen(Buf), Burrow(Cin), Herbert(LAC), Mahomes(KC) ) in the AFC alone. Do I feel like this team(even completely healthy) with AR added is capable of that - nope).

The team right now lacks a QB we all agree with that and we all hope Hackett provides them a lift over what MLF was running . That he's better able to utilize Moore, Mims, Carter and the Te's. The defense while much improved still needs a large run stuffer at D , a stud LB and definitely safety help . This team has holes which won't get filled by trading away multiple high end draft picks. I'd rather see them bring in Carr or even to a lesser extent a Tannehill, Brisset or Winston while continuing to plug those holes then simply adding Rodgers to this mix for a desperation shot at a SB.

[GangGreened]

35 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

So are you saying the Jets would trade for AR to save JD and RS jobs , Or they are trading for him to win a SB , because those are two entirely different things. 

The former

[sciond]

You have to be a dumbass to mortgage your future for Methuselah....

seriously 39 years old

Maybe we can mortgage it for Joe Montana too.

[PepPep]

2 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

The guy has more off the field ventures than a Tik Tok star . CJ Uzomah was killed for being involved with a broadway show, imagine what happens with AR if he comes here and plays poorly. The guy is a me first headcase and we want to dump into the the NYC limelight. 

#1. Winnig solves everything. Nobody in NY cares what you do off the field as long as you win. Ask Derek Jeter. 

#2. Nobody was killing CJ or the Jets for any of their off-field high jinks until their collapse down the stretch. See above. 

#3. As you said, A-Rod has been through a bunch of off field drama. Never. Ever. Not once. Has it affected his on field play. The idea that suddenly coming to NY will overwhelm him is absolutely absurd.   

[56mehl56]

10 minutes ago, PepPep said:

#1. Winnig solves everything. Nobody in NY cares what you do off the field as long as you win. Ask Derek Jeter. 

#2. Nobody was killing CJ or the Jets for any of their off-field high jinks until their collapse down the stretch. See above. 

#3. As you said, A-Rod has been through a bunch of off field drama. Never. Ever. Not once. Has it affected his on field play. The idea that suddenly coming to NY will overwhelm him is absolutely absurd.   

Sure winning solves everything , but what happens the first game he doesn't win and plays poorly. 

[y2k8]

2 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

What Jets on the 2022 wouldn't have been there if they had traded for Rodgers. Probably no GW and maybe no Brece Hall. 

That's not my argument. 

My argument is essentially WAR - or in this instance WAZJM - Wins Above Zach/Joe/Mike.

To those who think the Jets aren't a QB away from 12 wins, I say they are wrong. 

 

[PepPep]

15 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Sure winning solves everything , but what happens the first game he doesn't win and plays poorly. 

Nothing. Literally nothing. He brushes it off like any vet would and moves on to the next game. Why would losing in NY suddenly break him? Dude has accomplished everything and has nothing to prove. Superbowl champ, Superbowl MVP, 10x Pro Bowler. Are you kidding me? He is not going to wilt under the bright lights or media pressure of NYC. stop already. 

 

[Lurker89]

[Dax89]

2 hours ago, the Claw said:

You can’t put Rogers on the 22 Jets because they’d also be losing 1st and or 2nd round draft picks. So AR minus Garrett Wilson and/or Gardener and/or Hall. That’s not a 12 win team.

Not to mention one of the reasons our non-QB roster was as talented as it turned out to be is because we weren't paying premium money at the QB position.  So not only subtract Garett Wilson and Hall but also subtract $30 million in cap space (which goes to $40 million this year).

[Rangers1]

3 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

Is that taking into account the likely dead cap hit of 50M+ for AR at that point , because in order to stay competitive the Jets FO will need to do cap gymnastics with AR's contract. Plus at that time our now rookie contracts will need extending. If the Jets go in all on Rodgers they better win the SB or else it will be another dark period like after Parcells all in attempt.  I get it people have been waiting forever , but this type of approach has major risks. I'd rather let JD, Saleh and team continue their build w/o leveraging upcoming resources. 

I get what your saying, but there comes a time for us older fans ( since 1960) that would like to see another superbowl in our lifetimes.

New England was able to do it, why not the Jets.

the contract can be reworked. This is all just speculation, drafts are a crapshoot. This is my personal thoughts, I want to win now and I am tired of being a perineal loser and have to the garbage of all the other fan bases

time to win and shed that loser image

[Greensleeves]

6 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

The Jets can still try to find a QB (and improve other positions) later in drafts, just not with a high pick and hope to develop that guy behind Rodgers whichever vet we get. 

Many of the better QBs in the league weren't first round picks.  Cousins,  Dak, Brady, Russ, Hurts...

It's also easier to find and develop a young QB on a winning team. No one thinks Brock Purdy would be Brock Purdy if he was starting for the Texans.

Zach is the guy they will develop and rightfully so. He has tons of talent and just needs to sit, have better coaching and learn from a vet. Noone they draft will have Zach's developmental talent. Rodgers for two years and then hopefully Zach for 10. They won't be drafting a QB IMO. Also, it likely won't take multiple first rounders to get Rodgers - keep the #1 this year and trade next years #1 and this year's #2 - something like that.

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, y2k8 said:

That's not my argument. 

My argument is essentially WAR - or in this instance WAZJM - Wins Above Zach/Joe/Mike.

To those who think the Jets aren't a QB away from 12 wins, I say they are wrong. 

 

A better Qb against last years schedule probably gets them to the playoffs . A better Qb isn't bringing this team to a SB , not yet with this roster , too many holes. 

[56mehl56]

17 minutes ago, Rangers1 said:

I get what your saying, but there comes a time for us older fans ( since 1960) that would like to see another superbowl in our lifetimes.

New England was able to do it, why not the Jets.

the contract can be reworked. This is all just speculation, drafts are a crapshoot. This is my personal thoughts, I want to win now and I am tired of being a perineal loser and have to the garbage of all the other fan bases

time to win and shed that loser image

I hear ya ,i'm up there in age too, been a fan since early 70's and will turn 60 this year. You say you don't want to be a perennial loser but going all in on a 39 yo qb like Rodgers only changes that for a year or two maybe max .  The team has more young talent than its had in awhile it would be a shame to stop the build and progress for an ill fated run at the Lombardi. 

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, PepPep said:

Nothing. Literally nothing. He brushes it off like any vet would and moves on to the next game. Why would losing in NY suddenly break him? Dude has accomplished everything and has nothing to prove. Superbowl champ, Superbowl MVP, 10x Pro Bowler. Are you kidding me? He is not going to wilt under the bright lights or media pressure of NYC. stop already. 

 

He's a Cali dude who's played in GB his whole career, he'd be pissed off with Jet's beat writers , media and fans from day 1. He has nothing to prove and play for at this point , he'll simply quit and walk away with any adversity.