Jets wave Mann

[More Cowbell]

[Maynard13]

35 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

He should have punted on drafting him in the first place. 
 

sorry, bad pun(t)

Punt kicked booted. All three work. 

[Green Ghost]

2 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

That draft was a disaster. Thank you Joe Douglas. Thank you.

@jago @Bungaman @Jet Nut disagree with the above post, and i find that interesting.
I’m all ears guys…  @Jetsfan80 went into great detail talking about each selection. Explain to me why you think JD knocked it out of the park in 2020.

[hmhertz]

One good draft in three drafts, that's his record.

He gets credit for trading up for AVT. In retrospect

another mistake. Where still chasing a good young LT.

The player the Vikings took Chtistian Darrasaw is a

better player at the position the Jets desperately need.

The two threes included in the trade could have provided

any of the following fine players-

Joseph Assai

Alim McNeil

Quinn Mienerz

Baron Browning

Aamon-Ra St. Brown

Rhamonde Stevenson

among others

 

[Bungaman]

30 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

@jago @Bungaman @Jet Nut disagree with the above post, and i find that interesting.
I’m all ears guys…  @Jetsfan80 went into great detail talking about each selection. Explain to me why you think JD knocked it out of the park in 2020.

He didn't knock it out of the park - it was subpar for sure. But between Covid restricting face time with picks, his first year on the job without his people in place, his rookie season on the job - it's not an easy job. I don't think there were many stars drafted on any team that year. His picking has steadily improved. I don't think we've had a GM that improved over time in many years.

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, pointman said:

I are confused. Are you saying he sucks at football cause he is busy playing video games in his mom's basement?

I'm certainly not one to throw stones living in my glass house of Xbox but the dude plays alot of CoD. 

Like... ALOT 

 

[Hal N of Provo]

3 hours ago, Beerfish said:

He cost us at LEAST one game last year, two awful punts right down the middle with no hang time.

His gross and net avgs were always Gross, his only  claim to fame was he was a good tackler after making terrible punts.

No, he deserves the scorn he gets, however the ones who deserve more scorn are douglas and saleh and boyer for not tossing him at least a year earlier when our FG kicker was a better punter than him and then the injury replacement guy (who we just resigned ) was far better than him.

 

 

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

I love how passionate people get about the specific locations of the deck chairs on the Titanic.....

There are many reasons we lost last year, and years previous.

It would take a while before "the Punter" would be a meaningful reason I would give.

Far more vital reasons before Mann.

If he does his job average and doesn’t choke the team wins at least more game and probably 2.  True if the team is all playing better they are winning by 20+, but that still stands out 

[CanadaSteve]

Mann as a player just doesn't make sense.

The pick was a good one originally.  We needed a punter, and it was a later pick.  Again, no concerns.  But how does this guy go from doing what he was doing regularly in college (BOOMING kicks) to what he did in the NFL?  I mean, the transition from college punter to NFL punter just shouldn't be that big of a curve.  

[Embrace the Suck]

3 hours ago, JetPotato said:

We're not going to punt this season anyway.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, pointman said:

The one time you tag me and it didn't end with me hating you.

I always tag you in love.  I can’t control how you choose to respond to that love.  

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, St Louie Jet Fan said:

Im absolutely too lazy to put any effort into searching but, when the hell was the last time anybody traded for a punter?

I’m showing it’s happened 6 times since 1994 (when PFR’s database started tracking trades).

The first hilarious incident in that span actually involved the Jets, who in 1998 sent Brian Hansen to the Packers for “past considerations”.  lol.  No idea what that means, and 25 years later, there’s no record of what the compensation ended up being.  
 

The others:

* 2000:  Dolphins traded Brent Bartholomew to the Bears for a 7th rounder

* 2005:  Panthers traded Todd Sauerbrun to the Broncos for a 4th

* 2015:  49ers traded Andy Lee to the Browns for a 7th

* 2016:  Browns traded Andy Lee and a 2017 7th to the Panthers for a 2018 4th

* 2021:  Rams traded Corey Bojorquez and a 2023 7th to the Packers for a 2023 6th

 

Yes, Andy Lee was traded….TWICE.  In back to back offseasons.  

[jago]

1 hour ago, Green Ghost said:

@jago @Bungaman @Jet Nut disagree with the above post, and i find that interesting.
I’m all ears guys…  @Jetsfan80 went into great detail talking about each selection. Explain to me why you think JD knocked it out of the park in 2020.

dude friendly fire, i was face palming along with you not at you lol

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Green Ghost said:

@jago @Bungaman @Jet Nut disagree with the above post, and i find that interesting.
I’m all ears guys…  @Jetsfan80 went into great detail talking about each selection. Explain to me why you think JD knocked it out of the park in 2020.

Only positive you can say is the process was pretty good for most of the selections.

Becton was a LT prospect while Wirfs was a RT who has yet to take a snap at LT and got to play with Brady, who gets the ball out quicker than perhaps any QB in NFL history.  Was Wirfs the right pick?  Yeah, especially in hindsight.  A high end RT is still a better pick than a questionable LT.

Mims was a big bodied, fast WR with sone high point catch ability that only cost a late 2nd.  And in a few games his rookie year he actually impressed when Flacco was making the throws.  Hard to hate the process there, though double-dipping in a strong WR class should have been the play.

Davis was supposed to fill that FS center fielder role, which one can argue is a premium position.  No idea why he failed so miserably but I’m not sure that there were huge red flags about him either when he was selected.

Zuniga had freakish athleticism that’s always a worthy gamble at EDGE, the position that requires athleticism more than any other, historically.

Perine was a bad pick.  No defense there.  You don’t take unathletic RBs in the middle rounds.  You can grab those off the UDFA scrap heap.  

I’m always down to take a QB in the mid rounds basically every year so I still don’t get the hate there even in hindsight.

Clark was, again, the right kind of pick:  A pipeline OL.

Hall had 1st/2nd round grades pre-injury and actually looked pretty good until we switched over to a zone heavy scheme.

Trading the 6th for a worthless CB was a strange move.  No doubt there.

Mann was supposed to have a big leg but something was missed there for sure because he never demonstrated that here.  
 

It was a weird draft that sucked but the process behind at least SOME of the picks made sense.  Juxtapose that to the Macc era where you couldn’t even justify the picks at the time unless you were an insane homer.  

[Anthony Jet]

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Only positive you can say is the process was pretty good for most of the selections.

Becton was a LT prospect while Wirfs was a RT who has yet to take a snap at LT and got to play with Brady, who gets the ball out quicker than perhaps any QB in NFL history.  Was Wirfs the right pick?  Yeah, especially in hindsight.  A high end RT is still a better pick than a questionable LT.

Mims was a big bodied, fast WR with sone high point catch ability that only cost a late 2nd.  And in a few games his rookie year he actually impressed when Flacco was making the throws.  Hard to hate the process there, though double-dipping in a strong WR class should have been the play.

Davis was supposed to fill that FS center fielder role, which one can argue is a premium position.  No idea why he failed so miserably but I’m not sure that there were huge red flags about him either when he was selected.

Zuniga had freakish athleticism that’s always a worthy gamble at EDGE, the position that requires athleticism more than any other, historically.

Perine was a bad pick.  No defense there.  You don’t take unathletic RBs in the middle rounds.  You can grab those off the UDFA scrap heap.  

I’m always down to take a QB in the mid rounds basically every year so I still don’t get the hate there even in hindsight.

Clark was, again, the right kind of pick:  A pipeline OL.

Hall had 1st/2nd round grades pre-injury and actually looked pretty good until we switched over to a zone heavy scheme.

Trading the 6th for a worthless CB was a strange move.  No doubt there.

Mann was supposed to have a big leg but something was missed there for sure because he never demonstrated that here.  
 

It was a weird draft that sucked but the process behind at least SOME of the picks made sense.  Juxtapose that to the Macc era where you couldn’t even justify the picks at the time unless you were an insane homer.  

So back to back safeties isn’t a good way to build a team?

[pointman]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

I'm certainly not one to throw stones living in my glass house of Xbox but the dude plays alot of CoD. 

Like... ALOT 

 

lol I had no idea. It does all make so much sense now. 

[pointman]

45 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I always tag you in love.  I can’t control how you choose to respond to that love.  

[PepPep]

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

 

If he does his job average and doesn’t choke the team wins at least more game and probably 2.  True if the team is all playing better they are winning by 20+, but that still stands out 

Yeah, sorry, not taking a Zach guy seriously on claims like this, lol.

[Green Ghost]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Only positive you can say is the process was pretty good for most of the selections.

Becton was a LT prospect while Wirfs was a RT who has yet to take a snap at LT and got to play with Brady, who gets the ball out quicker than perhaps any QB in NFL history.  Was Wirfs the right pick?  Yeah, especially in hindsight.  A high end RT is still a better pick than a questionable LT.

Mims was a big bodied, fast WR with sone high point catch ability that only cost a late 2nd.  And in a few games his rookie year he actually impressed when Flacco was making the throws.  Hard to hate the process there, though double-dipping in a strong WR class should have been the play.

Davis was supposed to fill that FS center fielder role, which one can argue is a premium position.  No idea why he failed so miserably but I’m not sure that there were huge red flags about him either when he was selected.

Zuniga had freakish athleticism that’s always a worthy gamble at EDGE, the position that requires athleticism more than any other, historically.

Perine was a bad pick.  No defense there.  You don’t take unathletic RBs in the middle rounds.  You can grab those off the UDFA scrap heap.  

I’m always down to take a QB in the mid rounds basically every year so I still don’t get the hate there even in hindsight.

Clark was, again, the right kind of pick:  A pipeline OL.

Hall had 1st/2nd round grades pre-injury and actually looked pretty good until we switched over to a zone heavy scheme.

Trading the 6th for a worthless CB was a strange move.  No doubt there.

Mann was supposed to have a big leg but something was missed there for sure because he never demonstrated that here.  
 

It was a weird draft that sucked but the process behind at least SOME of the picks made sense.  Juxtapose that to the Macc era where you couldn’t even justify the picks at the time unless you were an insane homer.  

You put way too much effort into this stuff. Go play with your wife… ?

[Sperm Edwards]

6 hours ago, Beerfish said:

He cost us at LEAST one game last year, two awful punts right down the middle with no hang time.

His gross and net avgs were always Gross, his only  claim to fame was he was a good tackler after making terrible punts.

No, he deserves the scorn he gets, however the ones who deserve more scorn are douglas and saleh and boyer for not tossing him at least a year earlier when our FG kicker was a better punter than him and then the injury replacement guy (who we just resigned ) was far better than him.

 

I've no issue with moving on from Mann, but if the offense was worth a damn he doesn't cost them anything. 

Also there was a blatant non-call for a block in the back on the NE return as Feeney(?) was otherwise in position to level the returner. So if that's called, as it should have been, then there's no punt return. 

I'm not defending the punt down the middle outkicking his coverage, but two veterans - Conklin and Feeney - had no one between them and the returner and he just ran around Conklin while Feeney got jumped on from behind.

What lost the game was the offense putting up 3 ****ing points.

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I've no issue with moving on, but if the offense was worth a damn he doesn't cost them anything. 

Also there was a blatant non-call for a block in the back on the NE return as Feeney(?) was otherwise in position to level the returner. So if that's called, as it should have been, then there's no punt return. 

I'm not defending the punt down the middle outkicking his coverage, but two veterans - Conklin and Feeney - had no one between them and the returner and he just ran around Conklin while Feeney got jumped on from behind.

What lost the game was the offense putting up 3 ****ing points.

We gave up two punt returns in games we lost by 7 and I think 3.

Our offense stunk as did the pats, we made the huge mistake.

[Sperm Edwards]

7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

We gave up two punt returns in games we lost by 7 and I think 3.

Our offense stunk as did the pats, we made the huge mistake.

Again I'm not crying over them cutting Mann, but there were sideways 20mph winds that day. Aiming towards the sideline could've just as easily led to a short punt. The returner said he was having some trouble tracking the punt as it was.

Lots of guys do most of their kicking in a dome & don't deal with this. 

• "My first thing was ball security, making sure I tracked the ball, because the wind was going crazy out there," the 5-foot-8, 175-pound Jones said. 

BTW, later in the run on that same return, pushing Hardee in the back:

Two blocks in the back on the same return, after the offense scored 3 points, is hardly "the punter lost the game."

Punters kick to the middle of the field all the time; even more so when the wind is gusting to 20-30mph. They're rarely returned for a TD. 

I'm still behind them moving on; Mann was just too inconsistent.

[Jetsfan80]

32 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

You put way too much effort into this stuff. Go play with your wife… ?

She’s asleep!!  ?

[St Louie Jet Fan]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I’m showing it’s happened 6 times since 1994 (when PFR’s database started tracking trades).

The first hilarious incident in that span actually involved the Jets, who in 1998 sent Brian Hansen to the Packers for “past considerations”.  lol.  No idea what that means, and 25 years later, there’s no record of what the compensation ended up being.  
 

 

So....the Jets did the Packers a solid for something the Packers previously did for the Jets??? Maybe J.D. can wrangle something like that into the Rodgers trade.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, St Louie Jet Fan said:

So....the Jets did the Packers a solid for something the Packers previously did for the Jets??? Maybe J.D. can wrangle something like that into the Rodgers trade.

Imagine the headlines for a deal in which the Jets receive Aaron Rodgers for “past considerations”.  lol.  

[Paradis]

6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Well, I was hard on Mike Maccagnan over the years, and rightfully so.  Only fair that I'm hard on Joe Douglas when it comes to the 2020 class, for which we're not too far from closing the book:

 

2020 Draft Class in review

• LT Mekhi Becton (1.11):  13 impactful starts to date; can't stay healthy and came close to eating his way out of the league (not a problem for @The Crusher but certainly a problem for a pro athlete).  Might be in shape now, so...cool?  Status pending but so far a massive bust (literally and figuratively).  @Matt39
• WR Denzel Mims (2.59):  42 catches, 0 TDs to date.  Current WR4 at best.  Jury may still technically be out but it's not looking good at all.  Thus far a bust.  Sadness.  @Paradis
• S Ashtyn Davis (3.68):  Advertised as an athletic center fielder FS.  Ended up at SS and then relegated to backup duties (0 starts in 2022).  3 career INTs.  Somehow still on the team, much to the chagrin of @pointman, as Davis is the bane of his existence.  Bust.
• EDGE Jabari Zuniga (3.79):  Fit the athletic profile to justify the selection, but most certainly a swing and a miss.  Spent 2022 with the Saints (1 game played).  1.0 career sacks.  Bust.
• RB La'Mical Perine (4.120):   Argubaly the worst selection of the bunch, as his upside was effectively Bilal Powell.  Did drag LSU S Jamal Adams into the end zone once, @JiF, @T0mShane, @Larz, @bitonti but only has scored 2 pro TDs and didn't appear in a game for the Chiefs in 2022.  Bust.
• QB James Morgan (4.125):  Only @jetsrule128 can likely provide the long list of teams that have given Captain Morgan a shot.  I'm always down with taking QBs in the midrounds... @jgb ...... but wooh boy, I sure wish we'd grabbed a more useful one!  Bust.
• OL Cameron Clark (4.129):  Hard to hate much on an attempt to bring in a pipeline type mid-late round OL, especially one who experienced as much terrible injury luck AFTER he was selected as Clark did.  But alas, the result is the result.  0 games played in the NFL and already out of the league.  Bust.
• CB Bryce Hall (5.158):  Probably the best pick of the class, but still one that didn't end up panning out despite displaying some 1st/2nd round upside in his collegiate career.  1 career INT and 19 PDs to date.  5 games played (0 starts) in 2022.  Meh.
• P Braden Mann (6.191):  If you're going to draft a Punter, in any round, you would hope he's at least league-average.  Mann was not.  The best things he did (like tackling and fake punt throws) had little to do with Punting.  Now off the team.  Bust.
• Trade Notes:  Can't discuss a draft class without discussing the trades that were made in a given year, as @Sperm Edwards has pointed out before. 
  • Trading down where possible in a deep 2020 class was a smart move for a team with a lot of needs, and Douglas, clearly wanting to stick and pick at 13, did this twice, moving down from 48 and ending up with picks 59, 125, 129, and a 2021 6th rounder.  But doing so caused the Jets to miss out on a better WR like Van Jefferson (2.57 - 93 catches, 1,391 yards, 10 TDs)
  • Douglas also shipped pick 6.211 off for Colts CB Quincy Wilson, who only appeared in 3 games (1 start) for the 2020 Jets, did not play in 2021, and has been a Practice Squad-caliber player for the Steelers since.  Some useful talent was available at 6.211, including the player the Colts took at that spot, KR/PR/CB Isaiah Rodgers (27.0 yards per KR; 8.3 yards per PR).  Also available were WR Freddie Swain, S Kamren Curl, WR Jauan Jennings, S Geno Stone, DE James Smith-Williams, CB Dane Jackson, and LB Tae Crowder, all of which have been useful pieces in the league.

 

CC:  @Beerfish, @kevinc855, @Pac

K first off -- MLF is singlehandedly responsible for all things "MIMS" that went wrong. So that's a wash.

Secondly, there's forensic team looking into how Bryce Hall went from our best DB in 2021, to unmitigated disaster. I suspect foul play. 

Other that that;Trash draft. But, I will credit JD with continuing to improve at his job. He went from bad in 2020, to drafting (literally) the DROY and OROY (and Breece coulda been OROY 2.0)... had the fat bastard not fell for the Mormon bait and switch (classic utah), then he'd have pristine resume.

I say gave him AR for a year or two. Let's see what happens. 

[derp]

4 minutes ago, Paradis said:

K first off -- MLF is singlehandedly responsible for all things "MIMS" that went wrong. So that's a wash.

Secondly, there's forensic team looking into how Bryce Hall went from our best DB in 2021, to unmitigated disaster. I suspect foul play. 

Other that that;Trash draft. But, I will credit JD with continuing to improve at his job. He went from bad in 2020, to drafting (literally) the DROY and OROY and Breece if healthy could have been OROY 2.0... had the fat bastard not fell for the Mormon bait and switch (classic utah), then he'd have prestine resume.

I say gave him AR for a year or two. Let's see what happens. 

Douglas outsmarted himself in 2020 and 2021. He took the layups that were there in 2022. Will be interesting to see if that continues or if he just can’t help but take the big swings.

[Beerfish]

5 hours ago, chirorob said:

I so liked him coming out.

How he could not punt in the NFL is beyond me

Over coaching.  These guys come into the league with rocket legs and a personal style and the NFLers start tinkering and asking them to do things differently and it screws them up, like screwing with a golf swing that works or a QBs throwing motion.  That is my theory.

[Beerfish]

12 minutes ago, Paradis said:

K first off -- MLF is singlehandedly responsible for all things "MIMS" that went wrong. So that's a wash.

Secondly, there's forensic team looking into how Bryce Hall went from our best DB in 2021, to unmitigated disaster. I suspect foul play. 

Other that that;Trash draft. But, I will credit JD with continuing to improve at his job. He went from bad in 2020, to drafting (literally) the DROY and OROY (and Breece coulda been OROY 2.0)... had the fat bastard not fell for the Mormon bait and switch (classic utah), then he'd have pristine resume.

I say gave him AR for a year or two. Let's see what happens. 

Dude, Mims sucked since early on and he was given multiple chances to seize the reigns and he never did.  If your theory is correct he should be really good this year.  I am not holding my breath.

[Wit]

Firstly a happy rumplenacht

Second

[TuscanyTile2]

7 hours ago, rangerous said:

The guy was a punter in the nfl for three seasons. How many wins did his punting cost? Probably next to zero. I’m not surprised he was cut after they signed morestad but he doesn’t deserve to be dissed so much.

 

[Paradis]

30 minutes ago, derp said:

Douglas outsmarted himself in 2020 and 2021. He took the layups that were there in 2022. Will be interesting to see if that continues or if he just can’t help but take the big swings.

true.. this will be a real test the year of the reveal. 

21 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Dude, Mims sucked since early on and he was given multiple chances to seize the reigns and he never did.  If your theory is correct he should be really good this year.  I am not holding my breath.

Mims year 1 --> decent rookie showing

MLF --> dark era

year 4  --> The great Gatsby 

[Green Ghost]

39 minutes ago, derp said:

Douglas outsmarted himself in 2020 and 2021. He took the layups that were there in 2022. Will be interesting to see if that continues or if he just can’t help but take the big swings.

Well said.

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

@jago @Bungaman @Jet Nut disagree with the above post, and i find that interesting.
I’m all ears guys…  @Jetsfan80 went into great detail talking about each selection. Explain to me why you think JD knocked it out of the park in 2020.

A low round pick punted for how many years?  He was replaced.  That sent you off why.  You can dwell on his first draft.  

[bitonti]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

* 2005:  Panthers traded Todd Sauerbrun to the Broncos for a 4th

The pride of ward Melville hs