So, the NFL game is changing. Will the Jets be ready?

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

Taste of Vernon Gholston still tainting the palette?

I haven't had taint on my palette since sophomore year at Cortland.

[Bugg]

21 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I mean he didnt do either of those things in college. Gronk abusing him yesterday was really, really bad. Aside from the Miami game- Adams has been awful.

The only defenders worth a damn are primo edge rushers and cover corners, and there don't seem but a few of the former and not many more  of that latter. The rest of your defense is warm interchangeable bodies t=you can get in rounds 3 to 7 or as free agents and scheme. Maccagnan is a scout, which means he looks at talent, but not the Big Picture. Idzik, same thing; look at players a whole bunch and wants to fall in love. But how things fit in the grand scheme, not so much. And in the back of their minds, they're looking for some gem nobody else sees or doesn't appreciate. Simply seeing a good QB doesn't float their boat enough to disregard all their I'm smarter than every other scout, a big game of I got a secret.   Pryor over Carr, Lee over anybody and Adams over Watson. 

[Bugg]

17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Best--BEST--case was Polamalu-lite and I don't know if even that kind of player is as useful anymore.

Big hitter means a 15 yarder a few times each season. And every analysis of turnovers indicates they're more often than not random, a failing of a ball carrier or a QB. 

[dbatesman]

2 minutes ago, Bugg said:

And every analysis of turnovers indicates they're more often than not random, a failing of a ball carrier or a QB. 

This is completely wrong. Fumble recoveries are random. Forced fumbles and interceptions are anything but.

[The Crusher]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I haven't had taint on my palette since sophomore year at Cortland.

It was a god year..

[Bugg]

9 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

This is completely wrong. Fumble recoveries are random. Forced fumbles and interceptions are anything but.

INTs are. every QB is gonna make at least 1 or 2 back throws,and then it's up to a defender who is a defender mostly because in college or high school he couldn't catch. 

Fumbles are only marginally less random, a function of a ball carrier failing to hang on, and only sometimes because of things defenders do. Recall under Rex Ryan Ryan bragged about a takeaway differential like it was a given and it turned around later in his tenure.

[Dunnie]

i hate running QBs ... i prefer guys that can pick apart defenses from the pocket


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[dbatesman]

7 minutes ago, Bugg said:

INTs are. every QB is gonna make at least 1 or 2 back throws,and then it's up to a defender who is a defender mostly because in college or high school he couldn't catch. 

Fumbles are only marginally less random, a function of a ball carrier failing to hang on, and only sometimes because of things defenders do. Recall under Rex Ryan Ryan bragged about a takeaway differential like it was a given and it turned around later in his tenure.

Right. Ed Reed and Charles Tillman just happened to be in the right place at the right time every week.

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

I've concluded that nothing is worse than watching a football game--pro, college, high school--where one team has a plus QB and the other team has Charlie Whitehurst. It's like watching True Detective Season Two where Colin Farrell had to carry scenes with Rachel McAdams. Heartbreaking. And that's the story of the NFL for the past 15+ years.

the solution isn't to accept crap at QB and OL. Ownership needs to create a developmental league. Tuesday night football. We'd all watch it. 

ownership also needs to pay professional referees. I don't like to quote Mark Cuban but he's right about pigs getting fat and hogs getting slaughtered. The league has relied on part time refs and free minor leagues and here we are 

 

[jetrider]

The NFL game is changing, evolving? Back when Cunningham, McNair, Young, Elway, and Stewart all played is deleted from this study or the OP wasn't around then?

 

[sourceworx]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Or, coughpernick

You know what? It wouldn't shock me if this happened. Not a bit. I think people are slowly becoming more sympathetic towards him.

[BrickTamland]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I'm watching Jacoby Brissett v Mariota right now and it appears that the NFL is evolving away from the statue guys at QB in order to accommodate all of the spread concept QBs coming out of college, which is cool and will help add more QB talent to a league desperate for it. With an OL talent progressively in decline, with freak pass rushers consistently getting freakier, and with most young pocket passers opting to become relief pitchers instead, it seems inevitable that the future looks a lot more like Russell Wilson than it does Tom Brady.

As an older, Gen-X douche, I've long argued that these dudes won't make it in the NFL because their legs get wrecked and 50% of their game goes to hell within three years, as with most RBs. But with Deshaun Watson, Mariota, Prescott, etc all starting to take over the league, and with Brady, Brees, Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger in steep decline, I'm guessing that the future is here and it looks like Chip Kelly's Oregon offenses. 

Meh. You're not wrong in saying that  NFL QBs are more mobile now but you're stretching to make that a takeaway from tonight's game. Your statement seems like a veiled shot at Mariota.

Although Mariota is among the best athletes at the qb position, he couldn't move tonight since he is injured. Tonight he made a statement that he can play from the pocket.

To say that tonight he played Chip Kelly ball is a stretch.

 

[Lupz27]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I was thinking about that the other day: imagine the Jets draft Rosen and he just refuses to report? 

Wouldn't drafting Rosen be in direct contradiction to your thread as he looks more Eli Manning then anything else.

[JetFreak89]

Agreed. Not only is the NFL now more open to spread concepts since that's what most college QB's are used to but mobile QBs are usually smaller guys a la Russell Wilson. In the yesteryear guys like these would usually take long to go through progressions and be killed with hard hits, late hits or would take off running and be tackled hard. Today's NFL has limited the amount of hard hits a defense can make. Defenders are slowing down, can't go high, can't go lower, can't lead with helmet, can't touch QB if he slides etc. The new rules take away a major limitation of your traditional mobile QB, their frailty.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[RutgersJetFan]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

As an older, Gen-X douche...

Vaughn totally peaked with Swingers, these little sh*ts don't even know.

 

[Adoni Beast]

7 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Brissett looks legit, btw. 

Since we're probably not getting Darnold or Rosen. We need to trade for him. I know a lot of us here wanted to draft him. This kid is on a horrible team, thrown into the fire without a training camp with that team. Impressive.

[Hael]

Brisset is an interesting young QB and he reminds me of Bridgewater.  The worry is the same, he's too scrawny to survive the rigors of the NFL.

At the end of the day all the mobile qbs in the league have suffered far more attrition than the pocket statues.  Brees/Brady/Mannings etc seem to almost never be injured.  Meanwhile even the buy time breed of QB is injured more... see Rogers or Big Ben.

[kdels62]

Man, Brisset looked awesome in that second half and Hooker looked great on that 50 yard TD. 

[Anthony Jet]

10 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Well, we've got two elite safeties, so yeah, obv

You try way to hard

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

10 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I've concluded that nothing is worse than watching a football game--pro, college, high school--where one team has a plus QB and the other team has Charlie Whitehurst. It's like watching True Detective Season Two where Colin Farrell had to carry scenes with Rachel McAdams

YOU CAN'T SIT WITH US.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

9 hours ago, Bugg said:

INTs are. every QB is gonna make at least 1 or 2 back throws,and then it's up to a defender who is a defender mostly because in college or high school he couldn't catch. 

Fumbles are only marginally less random, a function of a ball carrier failing to hang on, and only sometimes because of things defenders do. Recall under Rex Ryan Ryan bragged about a takeaway differential like it was a given and it turned around later in his tenure.

I'm going on the assumption here that this is some garbled version of something you've read and not something you're just making up. What you are probably thinking of is fumble recoveries, which are basically random. Causing/avoiding fumbles and making/avoiding interceptions are not.

[Bugg]

9 hours ago, bitonti said:

the solution isn't to accept crap at QB and OL. Ownership needs to create a developmental league. Tuesday night football. We'd all watch it. 

ownership also needs to pay professional referees. I don't like to quote Mark Cuban but he's right about pigs getting fat and hogs getting slaughtered. The league has relied on part time refs and free minor leagues and here we are 

 

They tried a few years ago with the FXFL. It lost money and died after 2 seasons. With the NFL losing viewership (what ever the reason) and entertainment options exploding don't think it works. Might have been a time when they could've established it and got it up and running when the competition was less. 

[slats]

12 hours ago, T0mShane said:

But with Deshaun Watson, Mariota, Prescott, etc all starting to take over the league, and with Brady, Brees, Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger in steep decline, I'm guessing that the future is here and it looks like Chip Kelly's Oregon offenses. 

 

I don't think so. 

I think these young QBs come into the league with limited skills running these gimmick offenses, and NFL coaches are getting smarter and breaking in these young QBs with a lot of concepts that they're comfortable doing. But ultimately, learning to be a pocket passer will give them a longer and better career. Injury concerns aside, NFL coaches want a QB who can utilize the entire field, not just half of it. So I think we'll see a lot of it with younger QBs, but QBs who get to their second contract as a starter will much more likely have developed into a traditional thrower. 

[Stark]

13 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I'm watching Jacoby Brissett v Mariota right now and it appears that the NFL is evolving away from the statue guys at QB in order to accommodate all of the spread concept QBs coming out of college, which is cool and will help add more QB talent to a league desperate for it. With an OL talent progressively in decline, with freak pass rushers consistently getting freakier, and with most young pocket passers opting to become relief pitchers instead, it seems inevitable that the future looks a lot more like Russell Wilson than it does Tom Brady.

As an older, Gen-X douche, I've long argued that these dudes won't make it in the NFL because their legs get wrecked and 50% of their game goes to hell within three years, as with most RBs. But with Deshaun Watson, Mariota, Prescott, etc all starting to take over the league, and with Brady, Brees, Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger in steep decline, I'm guessing that the future is here and it looks like Chip Kelly's Oregon offenses. 

So Chip Kelly as HC with NO personnel decisions allowed, and Lamar Jackson for QB? lol

[bitonti]

2 hours ago, Bugg said:

They tried a few years ago with the FXFL. It lost money and died after 2 seasons. With the NFL losing viewership (what ever the reason) and entertainment options exploding don't think it works. Might have been a time when they could've established it and got it up and running when the competition was less. 

The FXFL was one dude trying to create a partnership with the league. This needs to be run by the league. 

there's a market for Tues/Weds night live football, regional in places like Miss, Alabama, Texas, Florida. Keep travel and living expenses low. The FXFL was like Miami, Brooklyn, Ohio whatever. Keep it int he south, run those corrupt Last Chance U Community Colleges out of business. It must allow 18 year olds. They run pro offenses. The players make minor league money. The practice squad guys are there too maybe can call up players who are in football shape or are tearing up the league. They try new rules out. They develop QBs and OLs and that's the point not really to make a ton of money with it short term. 

There's a hole in the tv schedule, there's hometown Tim Tebow types and they can sell it to their own NFL network which is synergy and looking for fresh content. How do they NOT make money on the deal?

It's a capital expense like when McD's  makes their owners install a mcCafe. Maybe these owners are too lazy to do it but the idea of a secret jedi training location for QBs and OLs could actually save the league. 

the only real loose end is the gentleman's agreement between the NCAA and the NFL not to do something like this. But what has the NCAA done for the quality of the product? 

[shawn306]

13 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I'm watching Jacoby Brissett v Mariota right now and it appears that the NFL is evolving away from the statue guys at QB in order to accommodate all of the spread concept QBs coming out of college, which is cool and will help add more QB talent to a league desperate for it. With an OL talent progressively in decline, with freak pass rushers consistently getting freakier, and with most young pocket passers opting to become relief pitchers instead, it seems inevitable that the future looks a lot more like Russell Wilson than it does Tom Brady.

As an older, Gen-X douche, I've long argued that these dudes won't make it in the NFL because their legs get wrecked and 50% of their game goes to hell within three years, as with most RBs. But with Deshaun Watson, Mariota, Prescott, etc all starting to take over the league, and with Brady, Brees, Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger in steep decline, I'm guessing that the future is here and it looks like Chip Kelly's Oregon offenses. 

Disagree

I see Cam Newton down here every week and you can see how the Panthers want him to learn how to be a pocket passer. He is struggling with it as expected but he is getting better. They want him to be around a long time and doing what he was doing before was probably gonna take a few prime years off his career.

The team to me that builds that OL for their QB is going to the be the team that wins alot of Super Bowls. 

Eventually guys like Watson, Mariotta and Prescott are going to need to learn to play and move around in the pocket. Russell Wilson is making that transition, Cam is making it, let's see what these guys do.

[Gastineau Lives]

2 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

I'm going on the assumption here that this is some garbled version of something you've read and not something you're just making up. What you are probably thinking of is fumble recoveries, which are basically random. Causing/avoiding fumbles and making/avoiding interceptions are not.

Except if the QB's name is Dehone Kizer, then you just need to be on grass with lines and numbers on it.

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, shawn306 said:

Disagree

I see Cam Newton down here every week and you can see how the Panthers want him to learn how to be a pocket passer. He is struggling with it as expected but he is getting better. They want him to be around a long time and doing what he was doing before was probably gonna take a few prime years off his career.

The team to me that builds that OL for their QB is going to the be the team that wins alot of Super Bowls. 

Eventually guys like Watson, Mariotta and Prescott are going to need to learn to play and move around in the pocket. Russell Wilson is making that transition, Cam is making it, let's see what these guys do.

it's the tale as old as time. John Elway was once a running QB. Steve Young was a running QB  Even Cam Newton who is built like a Tight end, his body will break down too against NFL defenders. 

[Fantasy Island]

13 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

Do you have this setup as an auto response for every thread. 

It's funny and yet true.  

[Fantasy Island]

Brisett wouldn't work here because only McCown gets the nod here.  uggghhhh

 

Mr. Enthusiasm put in Petty against the dolphins this week.

[Bugg]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

The FXFL was one dude trying to create a partnership with the league. This needs to be run by the league. 

there's a market for Tues/Weds night live football, regional in places like Miss, Alabama, Texas, Florida. Keep travel and living expenses low. The FXFL was like Miami, Brooklyn, Ohio whatever. Keep it int he south, run those corrupt Last Chance U Community Colleges out of business. It must allow 18 year olds. They run pro offenses. The players make minor league money. The practice squad guys are there too maybe can call up players who are in football shape or are tearing up the league. They try new rules out. They develop QBs and OLs and that's the point not really to make a ton of money with it short term. 

There's a hole in the tv schedule, there's hometown Tim Tebow types and they can sell it to their own NFL network which is synergy and looking for fresh content. How do they NOT make money on the deal?

It's a capital expense like when McD's  makes their owners install a mcCafe. Maybe these owners are too lazy to do it but the idea of a secret jedi training location for QBs and OLs could actually save the league. 

the only real loose end is the gentleman's agreement between the NCAA and the NFL not to do something like this. But what has the NCAA done for the quality of the product? 

 In the limited way you describe, that might be sensible.  The community college thing is a total scam(at least as to football)  of guys who can play but really have no business being in an academic setting. Heard A broadcast Saturday of a Big 10 school and reference to a player being a "transfer from Nassau CC", and the guy is not going to  school to get a degree.2 years barely staying eligible at a CC, followed by 15 months of the same thing at Big Time U is not a college education. Why pretend?  A semi pro junior league could be a good thing.Not every job or career requires a college degree. 

[Beerfish]

There are some QB's who are great the way they play when they come into the league and a good part of their greatness comes from the fact they will run and run a lot. 

Then they have some success and or get hurt a time or two and teams decide they should not run anymore.  Only some of them can pull this off and usually only if the rest of the team is solid.

I like the hybrid version of the QBs we are talking about the ones that are mobile in the pocket with the view to buy time to throw and run only when things are really on the line.

As for injury.  You are as likely to get hurt in the pocket as out or scrambling but not running.

[rangerous]

15 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I'm watching Jacoby Brissett v Mariota right now and it appears that the NFL is evolving away from the statue guys at QB in order to accommodate all of the spread concept QBs coming out of college, which is cool and will help add more QB talent to a league desperate for it. With an OL talent progressively in decline, with freak pass rushers consistently getting freakier, and with most young pocket passers opting to become relief pitchers instead, it seems inevitable that the future looks a lot more like Russell Wilson than it does Tom Brady.

As an older, Gen-X douche, I've long argued that these dudes won't make it in the NFL because their legs get wrecked and 50% of their game goes to hell within three years, as with most RBs. But with Deshaun Watson, Mariota, Prescott, etc all starting to take over the league, and with Brady, Brees, Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger in steep decline, I'm guessing that the future is here and it looks like Chip Kelly's Oregon offenses. 

i was thinking sort of along the same lines a few days ago.  my idea is you don't necessarily need the high priced pocket passer but guys who can be multiple threats out of the backfield.  if anything can be learned from jets football it's that even scrub qbs can be somewhat successful.  and since guys who do run a bit tend to clobbered there's no need to have long contracts.

[nycdan]

Wake me up when the NFL evolves away from throwing games for the Patriots.

[jmat321]

If the future is a multi threat QB and the spread, you are going to need at least 2-3 and a WR/RB who can take snaps in a pinch on your roster.