The Idzik 12 vs. Macc's first draft: Which was worse?

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

I posted that list already earlier in the thread. There was about an equal number of impact players that Idzik missed out on. Though keep in mind he was picking 18th, so I didn’t include players from 1-17.

 

The mistake Idzik made is that he did not trade down, or trade up in that draft.

ridiculous to use 12 picks, and feel that the draft fell right to you. I thought the man was educated, but this proved he wasn't

[CTM]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

I think it’s been a pretty good discussion. Why did it have to come to you accusing me of going full bizarro Pac?

 

Because I enjoy insulting you?

[Jetsfan80]

The mistake Idzik made is that he did not trade down, or trade up in that draft. ridiculous to use 12 picks, and feel that the draft fell right to you. I thought the man was educated, but this proved he wasn't 

 

 A very fair critique.

 

At the time, when we didn’t move up, I thought we’d be taking Bridgewater at 18. Instead we take a box safety. Ridiculous.

 

 

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, Skeptable said:

None of them would have reached the Jets pick at 18 if thats your point... but they did pass on multiple pro-bowlers and with as many picks as they had they had the ability to move up in the draft which they did not do. There was no reason to keep all 12 and not move at all... 

Also there is a very high amount of players still playing in the NFL (solid players) from 2014.... not as many from 2015... I do not have the stat in front of me but the amount of players out of the NFL drafted in 2015 is higher then 2014... 

and to come out of a draft with 12 players and only 1 of them is still in the NFL is extraordinarily hard to do. 

People keep saying this, but it simply isn't true.  Enunwa and Dozier both signed decent sized contracts this offseason. That is more than 1, no?  I have a long post documenting where these guys are now, but through last offseason, I think they all were still in the NFL in some capacity except Saunders and Evans who were/are in Canada.  Saunders, who I think had substance issues that caused him problems here is a borderline star  up there.  McDougle started a game last year.  George, Dixon and Reilly started games in 2017. 

In 2015 the Jets made 6 picks.  By your analysis, only 1 is in "still playing in the NFL."  He was selected 6th overall.  Despite the class being a year younger, Bryce Petty is the only other one to start a game since 2016.  Using pro football reference "Approximate Value" which isn't a real stat, but judges careers based on things like seasons starting and pro bowls, I think the Idzik 12 landed 47 compared to Maccagnan's 2015 class at 44 with 33 being from Leonard Williams.  

[#27TheDominator]

Are we really upset about missing out on John Brown?  Yikes. 

[pdxgreen]

3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

The Jets drafting Ardarius Stewart and Chad Hansen in the 3rd and 4th rounds restored your faith in building through the draft? 

Why would any draft group this team selected restore my faith in the draft process?  Macc still haven't gotten us to the playoffs.  No.  Specifically, I saw the Eagles and Vikings build decent teams the past few years through the draft.  A few other teams as well.

[jgb]

IK breaking the jaw of Geno almost made me vote for Macc... but Leo.

[TheClashFan]

Idzik had more picks but Mac had picks 12 spots earlier in the rounds.  

What's horrifying is that this is back to back drafts, and a pretty big reason why the team stinks.

 

[NoBowles]

11 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Idzik had a plan and drafted stupid.

Mac has no plan and drafts stupid.

What exactly was Idziks plan?

[RutgersJetFan]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 A very fair critique.

 

At the time, when we didn’t move up, I thought we’d be taking Bridgewater at 18. Instead we take a box safety. Ridiculous.

 

 

The ol’ taking a safety over a quarterback that checked all the boxes routine. Gets us every time. Thankfully it’s something Macaggnan would never fall for. 

[Beerfish]

3 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

What exactly was Idziks plan?

He purged older veterans.  He was not going to pay Revis what he wanted and traded him for a decent return.

He did not over spend in Fa and thus had plenty of comp picks.

He drafted very evenly in regards to the positions he tried to fill.

3 CBs

1 S

2 DL/Edge

1 TE

3 WR

2 LB

2 OT

2 OG

2 QB

[SayNoToDMC]

Our dope of an owner has spent over $100k to have Korn Ferry and Charley Casserly give us these clowns. Woody could have literally got a premium PFF membership for $200, drafted from his bathroom and at a minimum done just as well.

[batman10023]

7 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

The mistake Idzik made is that he did not trade down, or trade up in that draft.

ridiculous to use 12 picks, and feel that the draft fell right to you. I thought the man was educated, but this proved he wasn't

He went to a second tier ivy 

[T0mShane]

One more thing to consider when you're comparing Idzik and Macc is that guys like Amaro, Milliner, Sheldon and Geno were extremely good prospects at their positions. Amaro and Saunders were prolific pass catchers in college with decent athletic numbers. Milliner's triangle numbers were God-like. Geno almost won the Heisman by putting up Mahomes numbers at West Virginia. These weren't wild reaches at the time. Then you look at the guys Maccagnan is drafting and you really wonder how they ever got drafted as high as they did. Devin Smith caught 33 passes as a senior at Ohio State. Guys like Mauldin, Donahue, Ardarius Stewart, and Juston Burris couldn't move laterally if they had to avoid an oncoming car. And then you had Hackenberg, whom the entire universe knew was going to be a trainwreck. Obviously, both GMs sucked, but at least Idzik was playing it by the book. Maccagnan has to go out of his way to find players that suck.

[legler82]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

One more thing to consider when you're comparing Idzik and Macc is that guys like Amaro, Milliner, Sheldon and Geno were extremely good prospects at their positions. Amaro and Saunders were prolific pass catchers in college with decent athletic numbers. Milliner's triangle numbers were God-like. Geno almost won the Heisman by putting up Mahomes numbers at West Virginia. These weren't wild reaches at the time. Then you look at the guys Maccagnan is drafting and you really wonder how they ever got drafted as high as they did. Devin Smith caught 33 passes as a senior at Ohio State. Guys like Mauldin, Donahue, Ardarius Stewart, and Juston Burris couldn't move laterally if they had to avoid an oncoming car. And then you had Hackenberg, whom the entire universe knew was going to be a trainwreck. Obviously, both GMs sucked, but at least Idzik was playing it by the book. Maccagnan has to go out of his way to find players that suck.

I voted Idzik but you make a compelling argument for changing my vote 

[Beerfish]

7 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

The mistake Idzik made is that he did not trade down, or trade up in that draft.

ridiculous to use 12 picks, and feel that the draft fell right to you. I thought the man was educated, but this proved he wasn't

Agreed Idzik did not seem light on his feet at all.  I do not think Mac is to any great extent either but you are right Idzik should have moved around.  He ammo to do so.

[Fantasy Island]

13 hours ago, pdxgreen said:

Are you ____ kidding me?  The Idzik draft was so f-ing bad that it took me five years before I believed a front office could build a team through the draft again!

when did that happen?

[rangerous]

23 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

This effectively boils down to who is not impactful, Leonard Williams or Quincy Enunwa?

I’ll say Leo. Barely, because he’s stayed healthy.

What a horror show to only get two average players from two drafts with that many surplus picks.

kind of the way i see it.  leo is a bona fide starter and has been from day one.  enunwa is a good player with a great attitude and ability when healthy but he gets nicked up a bit and is coming off a pretty bad injury.

[jamesr]

I spotted an interesting thing about the 2014 draft earlier today, which to me condemns the Idzik 2014 draft far more than any other this decade.

If you look at how many of the Top 40 picks became Pro Bowlers, 2014 is a real boom year. I know Pro Bowls are not the be all and end all, but they're easy to count rather than starts / snaps played etc.

The number of Pro Bowlers out of the top 40 picks is as follows, by year:

2010 - 18

2011 - 17

2012 - 14

2013 - 14

2014 - 20

2015 - 11

2016 - 8

2017 - 8

2018 - 5

You would expect the overall number to drop as you get more recent as these later draftees have had fewer chances to make the Pro Bowl. That's what makes 2014 stand out so much - I'd think 11-12 was a more expected amount. But this draft was loaded in the first round.

Half of the top 40 picks made it, and 13 out of the 17 picks before Pryor made it. That's a crazy amount - yet the guy we drafted at 18 isn't even in the league any more.

People knock Macc for only hitting on his first rounders. It was much worse before Macc.

[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, jamesr said:

I spotted an interesting thing about the 2014 draft earlier today, which to me condemns the Idzik 2014 draft far more than any other this decade.

If you look at how many of the Top 40 picks became Pro Bowlers, 2014 is a real boom year. I know Pro Bowls are not the be all and end all, but they're easy to count rather than starts / snaps played etc.

The number of Pro Bowlers out of the top 40 picks is as follows, by year:

2010 - 18 

2011 - 17

2012 - 14

2013 - 14

2014 - 20

2015 - 11

2016 - 8

2017 - 8

2018 - 5

You would expect the overall number to drop as you get more recent as these later draftees have had fewer chances to make the Pro Bowl. That's what makes 2014 stand out so much - I'd think 11-12 was a more expected amount. But this draft was loaded in the first round.

Half of the top 40 picks made it, and 13 out of the 17 picks before Pryor made it. That's a crazy amount - yet the guy we drafted at 18 isn't even in the league any more. 

People knock Macc for only hitting on his first rounders. It was much worse before Macc. 

 

We were picking at 18.  13 of those 20 Pro Bowlers went in picks 1-17:  Clowney, Khalil Mack, Jake Matthews, Mike Evans, Anthony Barr, Eric Ebron, Taylor Lewan, Odell Beckham, Aaron Donald, Kyle Fuller, Ryan Shazier, Zack Martin, C.J. Mosley.

Yes, with the arsenal of picks we had in the middle rounds, Idzik should have traded up and gotten one of those Pro Bowlers. Or he could have taken a Pro Bowler like Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, Dee Ford or Jason Verrett at 18. 

But the analysis of that 2014 class suggesting Idzik missed so much talent in the MIDDLE rounds is a bit flawed.  Macc missed out on just as many good players in that round 2-5 range in 2015. 

[bealeb319]

It's funny that everyone points fingers at the gms. The gm might have the final say in things but they typically rely heavily on their scouting departments. The two drafts mentioned above used the same scouting team Mac didn't fire them until after the draft

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jetsfan80]

27 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

It's funny that everyone points fingers at the gms. The gm might have the final say in things but they typically rely heavily on their scouting departments. The two drafts mentioned above used the same scouting team Mac didn't fire them until after the draft

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

It's one of the 32 most important positions in the NFL and they get compensated heavily for it.  So it's only fair that the buck stops there.  The GM puts his name on every pick.  

If the scouts suck, its up to the GM to make changes there as well.

[slimjasi]

On 5/1/2019 at 11:02 PM, T0mShane said:

One more thing to consider when you're comparing Idzik and Macc is that guys like Amaro, Milliner, Sheldon and Geno were extremely good prospects at their positions. Amaro and Saunders were prolific pass catchers in college with decent athletic numbers. Milliner's triangle numbers were God-like. Geno almost won the Heisman by putting up Mahomes numbers at West Virginia. These weren't wild reaches at the time. Then you look at the guys Maccagnan is drafting and you really wonder how they ever got drafted as high as they did. Devin Smith caught 33 passes as a senior at Ohio State. Guys like Mauldin, Donahue, Ardarius Stewart, and Juston Burris couldn't move laterally if they had to avoid an oncoming car. And then you had Hackenberg, whom the entire universe knew was going to be a trainwreck. Obviously, both GMs sucked, but at least Idzik was playing it by the book. Maccagnan has to go out of his way to find players that suck.

Amaro was f*cking trash

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Amaro was f*cking trash

In his final year at Texas Tech he caught 106 passes for 1352 yards and 7 TD's.  He was also a 2x Big 12 First Teamer.

Trash?  No.  Disappointment at the next level?  Absolutely.  A lot of people around here were excited about him when he got taken.

[Peace Frog]

Not reading the whole thread but seriously, f*ck John Idzik. 

[TuscanyTile2]

On 5/1/2019 at 11:21 AM, T0mShane said:

Not to nitpick, but if you throw in Macc’s first two drafts, it’s likely that by this time next year there’s only one player left on the roster from those and that’s Jordan Jenkins. I don’t see how there’s any way they’ll franchise Leonard Williams or extend him for big money (especially after drafting Quinnen and extending Anderson), and Chuma Edoga replaces pending UFA Brandon Shell unless Edoga shows enough to be the OLT. Looking a year behind that, the 2017 draft has already been torn to shreds and Adams and Maye will be the only survivors of that debacle. 

Rebuild tho

Yeah but Jamal Adams.

[slimjasi]

25 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

In his final year at Texas Tech he caught 106 passes for 1352 yards and 7 TD's.  He was also a 2x Big 12 First Teamer.

Trash?  No.  Disappointment at the next level?  Absolutely.  A lot of people around here were excited about him when he got taken.

yeah but still lol

[NYJ1]

Mac is a terrible GM, but the Idzik 12 still takes the cake as the very worst possibly in team history.

[NYJ1]

I remember that idiot Jace Amaro bragging about how he was going to catch 100 passes his rookie season? Oh my god, to this day that draft still haunts my dreams.

[Philc1]

On 5/1/2019 at 4:48 PM, #27TheDominator said:

Are we really upset about missing out on John Brown?  Yikes. 

But he plays offense!

[Philc1]

26 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

I remember that idiot Jace Amaro bragging about how he was going to catch 100 passes his rookie season? Oh my god, to this day that draft still haunts my dreams.

What was his problem?  Was he drunk 24/7?   Not only was he a horrible bust he also couldn’t stop talking

 

Oh and he’s also a guy Tony the Whiz said we would regret cutting

 

[Philc1]

33 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

Mac is a terrible GM, but the Idzik 12 still takes the cake as the very worst possibly in team history.

What about the Mac 36?

 

 

Considering Mac’s first 3 drafts were absolute trash

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

What was his problem?  Was he drunk 24/7?   Not only was he a horrible bust he also couldn’t stop talking

 

Oh and he’s also a guy Tony the Whiz said we would regret cutting

 

IIRC, he had teeny tiny girl hands. 

 

[CurtMart]

On 5/1/2019 at 9:53 AM, pdxgreen said:

Are you ____ kidding me?  The Idzik draft was so f-ing bad that it took me five years before I believed a front office could build a team through the draft again!

If Mac was picking 16th that year, I have all the confidence in him drafting a bust.  Besides that one top 6 pick, Mac was actually worse than  Idzik 12. That’s something.