Cimini Wants Watson, But Can't Afford Him

[Jets723]

7 minutes ago, dcJet said:

Three firsts is not a huge price.  The 2nd overall would be used for fields, so that's a wash when we get watson.

The other two Seattle picks are probably in the 20's which may get two starters or only one.  Maybe Hollywood Brown types.

Fields + 1 or 2 starters is not better than Watson.  Fields may bust, 2 rookies may bust.  Watson doesn't bust and might get us a FA like Arob and we have other draft picks - we're loaded

 

Anytime you give up 3 firsts is a HUGE price.  Plus the cost will likely be higher anyway when all set and done

[addage]

25 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Watson is 25.  It doesn't matter if the team isn't ready to compete until 2023.  Watson would only be 28 by then.  Plenty of great years ahead.  

And my argument is it wouldn't take nearly that long to compete.  The entire roster will look a lot better with Watson under center (plus the new coaching staff).

Adding Watson helps the other 52 spots far more than you seem to be willing to admit.  You love the draft more than most so that clouds things a bit too.

If Watson was a patient guy, this thread wouldn't exist.  He wants to leave Houston because they are not winning and have no real likelihood of changing that.

So your theory is he comes here and loses for 3 more years.  Years in which we have very few elite level picks available.  And he's going to be a loyal happy Jet through all of that?

I think Watson would veto a trade to the Jets.  We are once again being put forward as a possible location in order to drive up the price from other teams that would be a more likely landing sport for Watson.  Miami is certainly a possibility.

If you are Watson, where do you want to play next year?

[UntouchableCrew]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

I tend to agree with Cimini that Douglas will be extremely reluctant to trade away too much of his draft capital. 

Unfortunately, I think the bidding war will make the price considerably higher than 3 first round picks. Something more like 3 1sts and 3 2nds. At the end of the day, I don't see Douglas doing that. 

I'll say this -- even if Douglas isn't willing to pull the trigger on a crazy package of 6 premium picks he should absolutely work with the Texans to drive the price up as high as possible for the Dolphins.

[Jetster]

13 minutes ago, dcJet said:

The 2nd overall would be used for fields, so that's a wash when we get watson.

This is the reason in a nutshell you make this trade! Especially if its for 3 1st round picks. All Houston would have to stipulate is the the highest 1st rounder in 2022. (never know, if Wilson got hurt that pick could be top 5).

80% of this board want a QB at #2? So that pick for Watson is a COMPLETE WASH! Your really only trading 2 1sts if its 3 firsts (2021-2022-2023) And by 2023 you shoudn't need much anyway if JD makes the right free agent picks & drafts well. I would not give up #23, that could be a trade back scenario if a QB drops that someone is eying. 

Plus you trade Darnold, you'll get something. 

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

So basically faulty logic?

Because what u basically wrote is that trevor lawrence would be a bad pick for the jets. Fields would be a bad pick. And Watson would be a bad trade.

So in your opinion, when will the Jets be ready for a qb1? 

Next year? In 3 years? 5 years? Never?

 

the Jets will be ready for a QB1 when they build a program that can support a QB1 

it could take 1 year, it could take 3. however long it takes, that's what it takes 

there are no shortcuts

I don't make the rules. I just report them and have rotten tomatoes thrown at me 

[slimjasi]

Just now, UntouchableCrew said:

I'll say this -- even if Douglas isn't willing to pull the trigger on a crazy package of 6 premium picks he should absolutely work with the Texans to drive the price up as high as possible for the Dolphins.

Oh agreed. 

And I'm confident the Jets will be on the phone with the Texans. I just think the asking price will be too high for the Jets. 

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, addage said:

If Watson was a patient guy, this thread wouldn't exist.  He wants to leave Houston because they are not winning and have no real likelihood of changing that.

So your theory is he comes here and loses for 3 more years.  Years in which we have very few elite level picks available.  And he's going to be a loyal happy Jet through all of that?

I think Watson would veto a trade to the Jets.  We are once again being put forward as a possible location in order to drive up the price from other teams that would be a more likely landing sport for Watson.  Miami is certainly a possibility.

If you are Watson, where do you want to play next year?

great post 

most fans are incapable of seeing anything from the players' perspectives

these are pawns to be moved around or whatever 

guys have choices, especially a guy like Watson 

the only people who play for the Jets by choice are 1) the drafted 2) the mercenaries 3) the no-hopers who would be out of the league otherwise

will that change one day? I sure hope so 

hope in one hand, pee in the other, see which fills up first  

[UntouchableCrew]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

great post 

most fans are incapable of seeing anything from the players' perspectives

these are pawns to be moved around or whatever 

guys have choices, especially a guy like Watson 

the only people who play for the Jets by choice are 1) the drafted 2) the mercenaries 3) the no-hopers who would be out of the league otherwise

will that change one day? I sure hope so 

hope in one hand, pee in the other, see which fills up first  

Aren't you the same guy who says there is no rebuild, only reload?

I really think people are overstating how far this team is away from being good with a quality QB and HC.

[Jetster]

9 minutes ago, Paradis said:

All that said — it’s all hot air. 

any coach thinking about taking that job is gonna want Watson to stick around. I addition to that if talks really started, some team ready to compete will wind up being the Cinderella to land him. Gruden in Vegas or Smith in ATL, or even Ron in DC - teams with some semblance of momentum - will be the landing spot. 

not the worst team in the NFL

None of them have the high picks. Texans could trade out at #2 with Cincy for Sewell since they have Tunsil. Texans need draft picks their salary cap is messed up (31 million over) with no 1sts or 2nds. 

[Pac]

42 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

I'm shocked at how many people don't want deshaun watson.

Shocked. 

It makes 0 sense to me.

Seattle gifted us 2 1st rounders. We add in 2 of our own and we have a franchise qb for the next 15 years.

What am I missing? 

 

I pulled up the fins board last night and they had a poll where like 70% said they would not trade Tua, the 3rd pick, and another 1st for Watson.

Speaking for myself I do want Watson and would trade Seattle's firsts and Darnold to get him..  just not the absurd packages I keep hearing mentioned.

[carlito1171]

1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

I doubt it happens anyway.

I fully expect the Jets to hang on to Darnold and trade down for more picks over the next two years.

Still fun to talk about.

Yea I mean what else is there to talk about right now? Buffalo’s game plan against KC in the AFCCG ??

[long time suffering Jets f]

I just have this fear that JD will pass on Watson, not take a QB in the draft and build up the roster instead. The Jets roll out Darnold next year and he continues to stink up the place. Fast forward 3 years from now we finally have a strong roster in place but we’re still looking for our franchise QB. (Where the Rams are right now). Bottom line is unlike 20 years ago its a QB driven league. If you have the chance to get a franchise QB and a young one at that you go get him.

[bitonti]

Just now, UntouchableCrew said:

Aren't you the same guy who says there is no rebuild, only reload?

I really think people are overstating how far this team is away from being good with a quality QB and HC.

I am that guy. The Jets have literally stripped the copper out of the walls

the roster is a complete gut job in every facet

every unit on the offense sucks. the WR suck, the RBs are atrocious, the line is terrible etc.  

this is the worst offense in the league by far and it's not just because of coaching 

they have like 3 legit starters on offense (Crowder, Becton, McGovern) and 4 or 5 on defense (QW, Foley, CJ mosely, maybe Bryce Hall) Frank Gore is their RB1. Also, troublingly, they got nothing from last year's draft class outside of Becton and half a year out of Mims.

I was the "there's only reloading" guy but then I saw the 2020 New York Jets

It's a 2 year reload if we want to be optimistic. It could be 3 years until JD makes that QB high pick everyone wants him to make 

it's certainly too early to take QB1 in RD1 and open the SB window 

 

 

 

[jgb]

If Jets can’t afford Watson, no one can. If that was the case, the market would self-correct the price. Flawed premise leads to handwringing of a problem that cannot logically or economically exist.

[Jets723]

I think some are misinterpreting.  It’s not that we don’t like or want Watson.  In a perfect world we would love to trade for him.  But the cost is going to be astronomical and we have the worst roster in the NFL by far.  More than likely it will cost 4-5 premium picks.  We don’t have the luxury to lose that many picks with all the holes we have and still build a winner. My trade prediction was all OUR first rounders the next 3 years AND a second rounder.  I think that’s pretty close to the actual cost if not more.  So we will only be left with number 23 and the 2022 Seattle pick which will be between 23-30.  You aren’t  getting an impact player at those sports most likely.  You could get a good player hopefully but the odds go down.  Plus you have to hit on every 2nd and 3rd rounder pretty much which is unlikely even for the luckiest GM.  

[JetFreak89]

10 minutes ago, addage said:

If Watson was a patient guy, this thread wouldn't exist.  He wants to leave Houston because they are not winning and have no real likelihood of changing that.

So your theory is he comes here and loses for 3 more years.  Years in which we have very few elite level picks available.  And he's going to be a loyal happy Jet through all of that?

I think Watson would veto a trade to the Jets.  We are once again being put forward as a possible location in order to drive up the price from other teams that would be a more likely landing sport for Watson.  Miami is certainly a possibility.

If you are Watson, where do you want to play next year?

This isn't Free Agency. Watson "liking" Jets related content online bears no benefit to him other than advertising the fact that he wants out of Houston. I'm sure the fact that he was at the Brooklyn Nets game last night means he must hate NYC. You can keep trying to guess his mindset on where he wants to play but actions speak louder than words...or in this case, hypotheticals. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

In theory, we can afford it.  The cap space is borderline a non-issue, as we have few costly vets of our own, and have underspent for ages.

Let's look at this hypothetical:

We'd have Watson at QB, Robinson, Mims, Crowder at WR.

We'd still have Darnold to trade away.

And we'd have 2021 #23, 2x 3rds, and the rest of our picks, we'd have a 2022 1st + the rest of our picks, and in 2023 we'd have no #1 pick, but would have the rest of our picks.

In theory, thats not horrible.  We'd still have plenty of picks, and likely still a good amount of cap space for other Veterans as needed.

Plus, Mosely would be back (in theory) in 2021 as well, helping the Defense quite a bit (we hope).

Getting all those picks for Adams makes this more workable that it looks on it's face.

This. 

Somehow without having all these extra picks, the Rams were able to make the SB 2 seasons after trading two 1sts, two 2nds, and two 3rds for Goff. Jared. Goff. 

A trade like that - and of course we'd all prefer less - would have been financed primarily with past misery, not future misery. 

Never mind the optics that changes FAs' opinions of signing here vs. signing here with Darnold getting a 4th tryout season (after which there's every possibility the Jets will be using at least one 1st rounder to roll the dice on the next QB we draft). 

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

1 minute ago, Pac said:

I pulled up the fins board last night and they had a poll where like 70% said they would not trade Tua, the 3rd, and another 1st for Watson.

Speaking for myself I do want Watson and would trade Seattle's firsts and Darnold to get him..  just not the absurd packages I keep hearing mentioned.

 

So what would you trade for him? What is too much to give up?

4 1st round picks sounds like a lot. But 2 of those picks are from Seattle. Only 2 are our own. 

It Doesn't seem like a lot to me when you are getting a top 5 qb in return

 

[dcJet]

18 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Anytime you give up 3 firsts is a HUGE price.  Plus the cost will likely be higher anyway when all set and done

We still need to offer the three firsts to drive up the price.  If we sit out, Miami may get him for 2 firsts.

[Jets723]

2 minutes ago, dcJet said:

We still need to offer the three firsts to drive up the price.  If we sit out, Miami may get him for 2 firsts.

No way Houston is letting him go for two firsts.  I agree with you we should drive up the price though 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's already been demonstrated in numerous threads that this is false.  He'd only cost $11M against the cap in 2021, and about $30-35M per year after that.  

The Jets are projected to have over $60M in cap space this season (prior to cutting guys like, say, Henry Anderson, which would save over $9M), and at this moment over $130M in cap space in 2022.  We can easily absorb this AND add quality free agents AND re-sign our own guys.

We're in tremendous cap shape thanks in large part to Douglas working hard to get us in that situation.  All that's left to do now is to use those dollars wisely.  A franchise QB at age 25, with a reasonable contract, would be a great start.

Or if the Jets so choose they could restructure his contract to spread it out more easily (no real purpose other than helping people wrap their heads around it conceptually) and then look at it as though he's on a 5 yr deal at $29.4MM/year.

[dcJet]

Check my math but I think we have 9 picks in the first three rounds the next two years.

Watson + 6 rookies, plus FA because of Watson, builds the team. 

If it was Watson + no rookies, you anti-trade guys would have a very good point.

[Paradis]

18 minutes ago, Jetster said:

None of them have the high picks. 

So what. It’s not just about that. 

[Pac]

11 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

 

So what would you trade for him? What is too much to give up?

4 1st round picks sounds like a lot. But 2 of those picks are from Seattle. Only 2 are our own. 

It Doesn't seem like a lot to me when you are getting a top 5 qb in return

 

Its that 2nd overall that id hate to see them part with..  that could be worth 2 firsts and more.. 

Seattle's picks, Darnold, and maybe a 3rd..  

4 firsts, which could be 5 firsts if Houston trades down is too much.

We were 1 game away from superbowl 2 years in a row with Sanchez.  Thats further than Watson has ever gotten.  We did that because we had a great team and Mark played well in the playoffs.

If Darnold turns it around and have 4 or 5 first round picks the next 2 years we are in ******* business!

[dcJet]

25 minutes ago, bitonti said:

great post 

most fans are incapable of seeing anything from the players' perspectives

these are pawns to be moved around or whatever 

guys have choices, especially a guy like Watson 

the only people who play for the Jets by choice are 1) the drafted 2) the mercenaries 3) the no-hopers who would be out of the league otherwise

will that change one day? I sure hope so 

hope in one hand, pee in the other, see which fills up first  

 

Agree.  No one comes here.  Watson and Douglas/Saleh changes that.   Remember the Rex days - players lined up.

[peekskill68]

22 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Aren't you the same guy who says there is no rebuild, only reload?

I really think people are overstating how far this team is away from being good with a quality QB and HC.

The basic issue that is splitting fans right now is simply whether Darnold IS a quality QB.  Seems about 40/60 to me.  60% are all in on Watson and/or Fields/Wilson.  Maybe 40% are in on giving Sam another year with a different system, better coaching and better talent around him...

[bitonti]

14 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Or if the Jets so choose they could restructure his contract to spread it out more easily (no real purpose other than helping people wrap their heads around it conceptually) and then look at it as though he's on a 5 yr deal at $29.4MM/year.

yikes

Sperm you're the "when has this ever happened before" dude

when have the jets paid any single player 30 million dollars a year?

Im not sure the Jets have ever paid anyone 20 mil a year.  

30 mil is a spicy meatball for a team that charges it's fans 50 dollars to park 

[docdhc]

1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

4 firsts is pretty steep. If he demands a trade the Texans might have to settle for less. 

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, dcJet said:

 

Agree.  No one comes here.  Watson and Douglas/Saleh changes that.   Remember the Rex days - players lined up.

he's Robert Saleh not bill Belichick

i like the hire he's also a first time HC who has proven little by NFL HC standards 

[Wonderboy]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Our biggest hole is at QB.  Eventually, heavy draft capital will need to be spent there, either via the # 2 pick in the upcoming draft or, potentially, by trading up in a future draft.  It's unavoidable.  And no one knows for sure if that pick at QB will hit.

Add Watson and we can still build around him via the draft.  That's the luxury we have after getting the picks in the Adams trade.

Our biggest hole is pretty much the entire roster.  A top 5 QB named Watson is doing zilch with this roster which is even worse than the Texans roster. How'd they do this past season with their top 5 QB?  Watson is very good. No doubt, no argument. BUT he's going to cost a fortune in picks.  Slow and steady as she goes.  In three years, JD will have this roster kicking ass.  

[sec101row23]

Watson hasn’t gone all scorched earth yet, and I dont think he will.   I still think Bienemy comes in and the two talk it out and he’ll declare his allegiance to the Texans and live happily ever after.  

[Jet Nut]

45 minutes ago, Paradis said:

All that said — it’s all hot air. 

any coach thinking about taking that job is gonna want Watson to stick around. I addition to that if talks really started, some team ready to compete will wind up being the Cinderella to land him. Gruden in Vegas or Smith in ATL, or even Ron in DC - teams with some semblance of momentum - will be the landing spot. 

not the worst team in the NFL

If Houston trades him and Watson uses his no trade correctly you would think he winds up with the Colts, the Fish, Steelers or the Saints.  

A team with a solid roster and in need of a QB.  Didnt think of the Raiders until now, good call 

Even though I wanted him in '17 and would love to have him now, probably going to take so much capital I go with the draft picks and whichever way the coaches think is best, Darnold or draft

He does make the uniform look cool

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

7 minutes ago, Pac said:

Its that 2nd overall that id hate to see them part with..  that could be worth 2 firsts and more.. 

Seattle's picks, Darnold, and maybe a 3rd..  

4 firsts, which could be 5 firsts if Houston trades down is too much.

We were 1 game away from superbowl 2 years in a row with Sanchez.  Thats further than Watson has ever gotten.  We did that because we had a great team and Mark played well in the playoffs.

If Darnold turns it around and have 4 or 5 first round picks the next 2 years we are in ******* business!

There's no scenario in which the Jets land Watson without giving up the #2 pick. It's the most valuable asset we can offer. 

To me it's a no Brainer. Give up the pick. Who cares if they trade down with it?

 

[Wonderboy]

1 hour ago, QB1 said:

Texans went 4-12 

Texans>Jets  but not by much last season AND that's with Watson a top 5 QB ooooohhhh wow.  cant wait to get Watson and go 6-10, 7-9, 8-8 over next 3 years.

[FidelioJet]

I think too many people around refuse to understand how important a QB is - while you can't put out a roster like the one the Jets did this year - you're only two or three players away from being a playoff team if you have great QB play.

Twos things ...

• Give up what it takes.  Don't be short sighted.  it's two years of picks not twenty (#2, #24, highest of our ones next year, and if need be #1 in 2023) would love to keep that 2023 pick if at all possible.
• Forget about defense until 2024.  If you get Watson build an offense.  If you put whatever draft and FA resources left and focus solely on offense you can build a solid roster around a top 5 QB.  Scheme defense and do what you can to stay in games.  You can go a long way in todays NFL with a great QB.  You might not win a SB in the next couple of years, but you'll get to the playoffs and then have at least 7 or 8 years after that of great QB to build your defense.

Do those two things and the Jets are competitive and a perennial playoff team for the next decade.