Stafford traded to Rams

[Dunnie]

4 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Let me break this down into simple terms...strike while the irons hot! Look at the Jets after 2010. The Sanchez contract blew up the whole team. And Goff is a way better QB than Sanchez. 

How many times do really good QBs become available? Ready made, step right in 32 year old QBs? Just look what OLD MAN Rivers did for the Colts, and Stafford is much younger. 

The Rams management has vision & BALLS, they have come to the conclusion, rightly so that Goff isn't good enough to get the a Super Bowl, and his contract would keep them from improving the team short term, while they are still talented enough to compete for Championships. I applaud them! 

My guess is that when reality sets in  ... the need it now crowd ... will realize that portioning .25 percent of your cap to a QB is not a winning strategy.

Furthermore .. more and more vet QBs will hit the streets as Super Bowls tied to 150million dollar contracts fail to come to fruition.

Team with strong positional strength across the roster will start winning more consistently as team that tied all their horses to a single position start to flounder around 9-7.

 

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Dunnie

[The Crusher]

56 minutes ago, Larz said:

Good for Stafford btw. He’s super tough and never complained about the lion’s situation 

 

Nice, very subtle, well done. 

[docdhc]

25 minutes ago, BCJet said:

First off here is a great breakdown of this trade from overthecap.com https://overthecap.com/stafford-and-goff-swap-teams-in-mega-trade/

This trade his almost no bearing on Watson, except to show how cap space is valued.  The Rams actually gained cap space in this deal and got out from a horrendous contract, while also improving at QB - thats why they paid such a price.

The rams now have 2 good WRs, a true lead RB in Akers and an elite QB to pair with a defense that has Donald and Ramsey.  They basically need to plug the OL and field a decent defense around their defensive stars and will be in the top 3/4 teams in the NFC.

The Lions must have done this for picks only because I cant imagine they think Goff can do anything without McVay.  His contract is awful and they likely have to keep him on the roster through 2022.  If they did want ammunition to trade up (possible to 2) then the extra firsts help but are you gonna play fields or wilson while keeping a $25 million a year backup?  

 

I thought he will be a 40 million a year backup 

[Jet2020]

8 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Where’s Brady & Brees?

At age 32 for all QBs. Brady didn’t start throwing for 4k yards a year until he was 26 and then again when he was 28. Stafford started throwing for 5k (coincidentally the same year as Brady) and then near 5k every year starting his age 23 season. 

Brees had negligible stats first 3-4 years and didn’t kick on until he was in NO at age 27. 

[Jetster]

2 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

My guess is that when reality sets in  ... the need it now crowd ... will realize that portioning .25 percent of your cap to a QB is not a winning strategy.

Furthermore .. more and more vet QBs will hit the streets as Super Bowls tied to 150million dollar contracts fail to come to fruition.

Team with strong positional strength across the roster will start winning more consistently as team that tied all their horses to a single position start to flounder around 9-7.

 

 

It's a catch 22. The Lions paid MOST of the big earlier bucks of Staffords contract including most of the signing bonus. Now the Rams get to pay him on the lower side of his last 2 years & still fill a couple of holes in 2021. 

Thats why the NFL allowing Bob Kraft & the Patriots to sell Tom Bradys water at the stadium & never having to pay Tom Brady top #1 QB in history money allowed them to compete for so long. It was total BS! 

[munchmemory]

Shows you what can happen if GMs have the skill, desire and balls to get it done.  Yet, here we still sit with the Crimson Pea Shooter, Sam Darnold.   TRADE HIM TODAY, JD.  Take the hint from the Rams and Lions.

[Butterfield]

30 minutes ago, BCJet said:

First off here is a great breakdown of this trade from overthecap.com https://overthecap.com/stafford-and-goff-swap-teams-in-mega-trade/

This trade his almost no bearing on Watson, except to show how cap space is valued.  The Rams actually gained cap space in this deal and got out from a horrendous contract, while also improving at QB - thats why they paid such a price.

The rams now have 2 good WRs, a true lead RB in Akers and an elite QB to pair with a defense that has Donald and Ramsey.  They basically need to plug the OL and field a decent defense around their defensive stars and will be in the top 3/4 teams in the NFC.

The Lions must have done this for picks only because I cant imagine they think Goff can do anything without McVay.  His contract is awful and they likely have to keep him on the roster through 2022.  If they did want ammunition to trade up (possible to 2) then the extra firsts help but are you gonna play fields or wilson while keeping a $25 million a year backup?  

 

I don’t know why everyone thinks Goff is s throw away for the Lions.  The guy who traded for him is the guy who was responsible for scouting him with the rams.  They are going to try to rebuild around him.  

[Columbia Jet Fan]

11 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Let me break this down into simple terms...strike while the irons hot! Look at the Jets after 2010. The Sanchez contract blew up the whole team. And Goff is a way better QB than Sanchez. 

How many times do really good QBs become available? Ready made, step right in 32 year old QBs? Just look what OLD MAN Rivers did for the Colts, and Stafford is much younger. 

The Rams management has vision & BALLS, they have come to the conclusion, rightly so that Goff isn't good enough to get the a Super Bowl, and his contract would keep them from improving the team short term, while they are still talented enough to compete for Championships. I applaud them! 

Its actually a pretty damn good analogy. Jets decided to overpay their rookie QB (not as much) and rode it out to their detriment. If they had pivoted hard in 2012 maybe they could have kept competing although looking back that roster gave out quicker than one would have anticipated over the next few years. Rams are gambling but when you consider what their 5 year window looked like with Goff I'm not sure how big of a gamble it is....

[SAR I]

35 minutes ago, JetsRevival said:

This is good news for the Jets, not bad.  This all but eliminates any teams besides the Jets and Dolphins in the quest to trade for Watson.  Unless Houston is willing to take future 1st round picks 2-4 years down the road, which I doubt they will. I do think the winning bid will be:

2021 #2 overall

2021 3rd rd pick

2022 1st rd pick

2023 1st rd pick

 

This is the deal that the Lions got for Stafford with the #2 overall pick being put in on top of that.  This actually provides clarity to a potential Watson deal.

Zach Wilson is worth more than you credit him for which is why it’s going to take only 2 first rounders, not 3. 
 

SAR I

[tfine]

Jet fans have been conditioned to think that you need to have multiple first round picks every year and it takes 5 years to build a roster, the Rams have done it differently.  They’ve flipped picks for veterans and have used free agency to fill some holes.  They have also drafted well with the picks they have made.   

This was the mentality we had during the Rex years....the problem is if you don’t hit on the couple of draft picks you have it will set your roster back 5-10 years and put you in Cap hell for the first couple of years. Which is what we are going through now.





Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Biggs]

17 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

My guess is that when reality sets in  ... the need it now crowd ... will realize that portioning .25 percent of your cap to a QB is not a winning strategy.

Furthermore .. more and more vet QBs will hit the streets as Super Bowls tied to 150million dollar contracts fail to come to fruition.

Team with strong positional strength across the roster will start winning more consistently as team that tied all their horses to a single position start to flounder around 9-7.

 

 

Good argument for trading Sam for a mid round pick before we have to pick up his option or let him walk.  

[Jetster]

4 minutes ago, Columbia Jet Fan said:

Its actually a pretty damn good analogy. Jets decided to overpay their rookie QB (not as much) and rode it out to their detriment. If they had pivoted hard in 2012 maybe they could have kept competing although looking back that roster gave out quicker than one would have anticipated over the next few years. Rams are gambling but when you consider what their 5 year window looked like with Goff I'm not sure how big of a gamble it is....

Must be nice having people in place to make BIG decisions quickly when an opportunity arises. That's why any Jet fan that doesn't want JD to throw his hat into the Deshaun Watson ring is a loser! Only losers would say, let's just role with Sam. 

Im not saying you give up so much you can't field a team around him but if Watson in fact becomes available you look into Long & hard and try to make it happen. It probably won't happen but it damn better be looked into. Deshaun Watson is Goff without cement shoes. A top 5 QB easily! 

[docdhc]

They get Stafford  for Goff without giving up any players. They have 25 mill extra in cap space. They give up a 3 rd for 2021, easily replaced with a player or 2 from the extra 25 mill. They can replace the future 1’s with the extra money as well in 2022and 2023. If they pick solid free agents which are easier to predict than the draft choices they are a better team each year with a better qb. That makes it a good trade for them for the 3 years Stafford should still be in his prime. After that they may have some lean rebuild years. 

[i sat at shea]

The two firsts are like seconds.  

SAR I

GFYC


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Lith]

11 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Goddam that's a lot. Is it so expensive because of Goff's contract?

Great point.  I missed that in my original reaction to the deal.  A 3 this year plus 2 future picks, likely in the 20s and taking on the cap hit of Goff's contract is not as lopsided as I first thought.  Interesting way the Rams go about building a team, trading away 1s to acquire established talent.  If they don't win a Super Bowl in the next two to three years, they are likely to fall and fall hard once the window closes.

[football guy]

10 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

? Hmmm! #8, #39, #73 this year. 
2135 vs. #2 value of 2600.

There would need to be a ‘22 1st & maybe this year’s 2nd & 3rd? And Robby Anderson LOL

Is that too much in light of the QB market?

#8, #39, #109, 2022 1st, and maybe 2023 3rd? 

[football guy]

10 hours ago, Jetlife33 said:

Rumblings of this or just a gut feeling?

 

10 hours ago, King P said:

Interesting. I feel like it's way too early to be coming up with any type of agreement. And this is why.

Hoping for a bidding war for the 2nd pick

Kind of both. What I know for sure is that Monti Ossenfort discussed trade scenarios with the Jets for #2 before interviewing for the Panthers job. He didn't get the job, but those in the Panthers front office talk like they'll move up. Matt Rhule pulls the strings so it may have been predetermined. Also, Scott Fitterer has a relationship with Joe and recently negotiated the Jamal Adams deal with him

[Butterfield]

4 minutes ago, football guy said:

#8, #39, #109, 2022 1st, and maybe 2023 3rd? 

Maybe.  The 8, 39, 109 and 22 1st is just about right on the chart.  Depending on the perceived competition for the pick, a 23 3rd isn’t too much to ask.  

[Columbia Jet Fan]

For those discussing the impact of this on Watson - I'll agree outside of maybe some optics this is pretty moot to me with the exception being a QB needy team didn't fill up a spot. 

Fun hypothetical for people trying to figure out value of a future pick: 

Say the NFL & Lions called Jets right now and said we will trade you the 2023 1st round pick we just got from LA, and the NFL will sweeten the pot. Lets say the pick is worth #28 in 2023, not only will you be receiving #28, but we will also let you pick #29, #30, AND #31. All of the other teams just slide back. So you basically get FOUR first round picks for #2 this year. 

Do any Jets fans say yes to that? I sure as hell don't... I don't even do it if its five...

 

 

 

 

[Warfish]

36 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Shows you what can happen if GMs have the skill, desire and balls to get it done.  Yet, here we still sit with the Crimson Pea Shooter, Sam Darnold.   TRADE HIM TODAY, JD.  Take the hint from the Rams and Lions.

Someone has to want him for JD to trade him.

That is fact not currently in evidence.

[32EBoozer]

1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

We offer to take on Houston’s terrible Whitney Merciless and Randall Cobb contracts. Those two save the Texans $12 million in 2021 and over $20 million in 2022. We get Watson, we give them 2 overall + Darnold+ Cap space to rebuild.
 

We can also rework their contracts to make them more palatable for our cap. 
I do that deal in a minute. Both are easily cut-able in ‘22 and we’ll get some playing time from them this year. Cobb = Berrios  

[FidelioJet]

5 minutes ago, football guy said:

 

Kind of both. What I know for sure is that Monti Ossenfort discussed trade scenarios with the Jets for #2 before interviewing for the Panthers job. He didn't get the job, but those in the Panthers front office talk like they'll move up. Matt Rhule pulls the strings so it may have been predetermined. Also, Scott Fitterer has a relationship with Joe and recently negotiated the Jamal Adams deal with him

Jets will be taking a QB at 2.

[Jet2020]

12 minutes ago, i sat at shea said:

GFYC


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Why would you say that to Sar for that comment? He’s right. 

Late (good assumption) 2022 first is a equivalent to a 2021 high second rounder. 

Late 2023 first is a equivalent to a 2022 high second rounder. And so high second rounder in 2022 is equivalent to late second rounder in 2021 at best since you don’t know what future pick would be. You don’t wanna give up this years high second for anything less than a future 1st.

So essentially Lions got back a mid to high second, a late second and a third year this year PLUS taking on Goffs contract. 

[football guy]

10 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Jets will be taking a QB at 2.

If it makes you feel better to say it out loud go for it

16 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

Maybe.  The 8, 39, 109 and 22 1st is just about right on the chart.  Depending on the perceived competition for the pick, a 23 3rd isn’t too much to ask.  

Yeah I don't know exact comp but anytime a QB is involved it's going to be more than what the chart calls for

[32EBoozer]

5 minutes ago, Jet2020 said:

Late (good assumption) 2022 first is a equivalent to a 2021 high second rounder. 

Late 2023 first is a equivalent to a 2022 high second rounder. And so high second rounder in 2022 is equivalent to late second rounder in 2021 at best since you don’t know what future pick would be. You don’t wanna give up this years high second for anything less than a future 1st.

It all depends where the team sending the picks will be drafting. A late 2023 first, 2 years from now, is worth more like a 3rd rd. pick in current value. The Rams should once again make it to the playoffs as Seattle (little draft capital) & the 49ers (Garoppolo = Goff) with a new DC may offer less competition to a Rams team with Stafford. 

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, football guy said:

If it makes you feel better to say it out loud go for it

Yeah I don't know exact comp but anytime a QB is involved it's going to be more than what the chart calls for

Not an issue of out loud more of a borderline factual statement.

Trading #2 (and others) for Watson is the same thing.  But #2 overall will be used for a QB.  There is close to no scenario in which that doesn't happen.

[Savage69]

11 hours ago, pointman said:

Holy cannoli. In other news, Houston now demanding partial ownership in any franchise that trades for Watson.

Houston has said they are not trading Watson only the media and wacky Jet fans believe it.. I'll wait till Houston says they are seeking offers otherwise it's just silly season BS..

[Butterfield]

5 minutes ago, football guy said:

 

Yeah I don't know exact comp but anytime a QB is involved it's going to be more than what the chart calls for

I would definitely be happy if the Jets made that trade.  They need a quantity of guys.

[Jet2020]

18 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

It all depends where the team sending the picks will be drafting. A late 2023 first, 2 years from now, is worth more like a 3rd rd. pick in current value. The Rams should once again make it to the playoffs as Seattle (little draft capital) & the 49ers (Garoppolo = Goff) with a new DC may offer less competition to a Rams team with Stafford. 

Agreed. That’s why I said a late 2023 1st is a late 2021 at best and most likely a third. Hard to figure out the discount for next years draft pick let alone 2 years but we can break it down from year to year. 

[football guy]

17 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Not an issue of out loud more of a borderline factual statement.

Trading #2 (and others) for Watson is the same thing.  But #2 overall will be used for a QB.  There is close to no scenario in which that doesn't happen.

You and @oatmeal can continue to persuade yourself this to be the case if it makes you feel better. Question I have is what team will you be rooting for come September if (when) that doesn't happen?

[NYJ1]

If we're using the Stafford trade as a reference for what it would cost to acquire Deshaun Watson? Then, I think the price is beyond JD's means. Stafford is a bit of a senior player and Watson is just hitting his prime. That would obviously, more than likely, make the price for Watson beyond the Jets means. Or should I say Joe Douglas.

Douglas has a 6 year contract. If he trades what it would take to get Watson, then I submit he simply won't have enough decent picks to build the team before his contract expires. It's possible the Jets just wouldn't be a very competitive team because Joe is unable to build the team around Deshaun. 

Unless the Texans are idiots, they're going to want Sam Darnold, 3 first round draft choices, and probably a 3rd as well. I submit to you that's simply too much for a player with two ACL's. 

The way I see it is the only way Deshaun Watson becomes a Jet is if he's demanding a trade to the Jets? Greenbean's surmised price for Watson, I think the Jets could deal with and build a decent team around Deshaun? Anything more than that I think becomes too much.

This is a legacy defining moment for Joe Douglas. If he gives up too much to get Deshaun, then he eventually gets fired because he can't win a chapionship.

[football guy]

11 hours ago, Samtorobby47 said:

Oh hello there Lions...interested in moving up you say?

He has a $2.5 million bonus that becomes guaranteed on March 19, which they will pay one way or another. Now the question is whether they restructure his contract in order to facilitate another trade.

It sounds like the plan is to trade him, but it comes down to who's left standing in the game of musical chairs

[bla bla bla]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

My guess is that when reality sets in  ... the need it now crowd ... will realize that portioning .25 percent of your cap to a QB is not a winning strategy.

Furthermore .. more and more vet QBs will hit the streets as Super Bowls tied to 150million dollar contracts fail to come to fruition.

Team with strong positional strength across the roster will start winning more consistently as team that tied all their horses to a single position start to flounder around 9-7.

You are definitely right, the NFL has been working for years to devalue the QB position so that an injury doesn't completely dismantle a team.

That said, not all teams are playing to win Super Bowls. Some are more than happy with making money hand over fist.

[oatmeal]

9 minutes ago, football guy said:

You and @oatmeal can continue to persuade yourself this to be the case if it makes you feel better. Question I have is what team will you be rooting for come September if (when) that doesn't happen?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/85749/run-it-back-with-sam-darnold-or-start-fresh-jets-have-multiple-options%3fplatform=amp
 

^^
Rich seems to agree with us.
 

 And trust me I believe you when you say Sam is returning because our GM is compromised by Jimmy Sexton. I have no doubt his goal is to get Sam a lucrative contract and he is behind the scenes manipulating thus entire situation. Call crazy but this is just my opinion 

[Jethead]

31 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Houston has said they are not trading Watson only the media and wacky Jet fans believe it.. I'll wait till Houston says they are seeking offers otherwise it's just silly season BS..

"Wishin and a hopin, hopin and a prayin..."