Is Zach Wilson a Bust?

[Rangers9]

I originally hoped the Jets would trade down and get a package of picks for overall #2. But rumors were the Jets were going to select Zach and basically commit the org to the success they believed he will have. And those rumors were true. It could make or break the GM and the HC if they have that much confidence in one player. So far he's not a bust. He has shown to me enough talent to think he can be successful. I'd stick with the plan (they really have no other choice). If they tried to trade him there would be interested takers and probably still value but not the kind of package we could have gotten last year. Look Jets fans have always wanted a real franchise Qb which means a guy on a higher level than being just a good game manager. We've had that in the past with Chad etc. A Qb who can not only manage an offense successfully but has a big arm and can be accurate on long passing plays. Zach could be that. But if Zach doesn't pan out it could be for various reasons. Wrong fit wrong team. Poor scouting he was overrated. His personal makeup. Poor student of the game. Not a winner. The bottom line to me is it's not easy for an org to always be right on a draft pick esp a major draft pick. The failure rate esp on Qbs is fairly high. So tanking for one player is idiotic. Unless that player was Kareem Abdul Jabbar. The only player in college who imo was guaranteed to be great. Dolphins fans are up and down with Tua. And remember the chant from a few years ago: Tank for Tua. He's OK but so far not a great player. 

[slats]

6 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

If they dont create an actual competition in camp with a real QB after what they've witnessed with Zach and more importantly, without Zach, I will go ahead and wave the white flag and declare this entire regime a bust and not give a single **** until everyone is gone.  I'll throw the first hundred down for the plane and banner.

@The Crusher

Yeah, sorry, but that’s what I expect. I hope they bring in the type of QB you’re talking about, but it will be Wilson’s job to (probably not) lose. He’ll almost certainly be the opening day starter, at least. 

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, slats said:

Yeah, sorry, but that’s what I expect. I hope they bring in the type of QB you’re talking about, but it will be Wilson’s job to (probably not) lose. He’ll almost certainly be the opening day starter, at least. 

I dont agree that it should be his job to lose, but I agree that it will be his job to lose.  That said, if they dont bring someone in that can actually do that, and really considered it a competition that Zach can lose, personally I'm done with these guys.  I'm not a fan of the New York Zach Wilson's, I'm a fan of the New York Jets.

 

[BCJet]

32 minutes ago, Gibby said:

I reserved judgment until after the Saints game. I wanted to be fair and give him at least half a season. Since then I have been super critical of him and saying he sure looks like a bust. My issue is is instincts- and am of the opinion ( you either have what it takes instinctually - or you don’t). As of this minute I don’t think he does, i think he looks to be a bust. I hope I’m wrong- but also think regardless of what I or anyone wants -he will be here through his rookie deal. He has more time to figure it out. Let’s hope it clicks or this franchise is set back even further. What the Jets cannot and must not do is come back next year with all their eggs in Zach’s basket without a real back up plan. Wouldn’t be fair to the rest of the players or fans.

So the saints shutting out the best QB in the history of the NFL the following week didnt factor into your analysis?  They have an excellent defense, that is a big part of why zach struggled so much in that game. 

ZW has a ton of things that must be improved this offseason, but in the second half of this season, it seems he has learned to take checkdowns more often and not force bad Ints, both of which are nice to see.  He has to work on his drops, footwork and accuracy - if he can do that, then hopefully the pocket awareness will come as he continues to play.

On top of that though, the team has to improve.  He cannot have someone like  GVR destroying plays on his own.  He cant have ryan griffin as his starting TE in an offense that requires the TE to block.  He cant have Ty Johnson playing meaningful snaps.  Most importantly, he cant be playing down 17-0 because the defense cant stop ANYONE.  Mac Jones was the next Brady until he had to actually play from behind and he wound struggling - which isnt a surprise.  

Lets see what JD can do with the 4 top picks we have and what ZW can improve on in the offseason and then we will have a much better idea of what the Jets have here.

[varjet]

"Mariota, Winston, Bridgewater, Mitch, or trade for Minshew"

This is a good list.   Not $20mm for Garropolo.  

If the Texans took him for Watson and a first, and Watson had to sit out a bunch of games, that could also be worth it.  

As I have said before, I do think its 50/50 that the Johnsons "crack" on this slow and steady build.  They always do.  

 

[kmnj]

It won’t be official until after next year but I am sadly very confident he is going to be one of the worst picks in Jets history 

Joe should bring in Watson it is the only possible solution for him 

 

[Hal N of Provo]

Another JN false narrative has settled in.

Zach won the job by playing well in camp and the preseason.  The practice reports were overalll positive with some ups and downs.  

Go rewatch the preseason all pass video if you are interested in real info.  He will win a competition next year so save the cash and build.   Games will tell the story.  
 

Edit—- it takes 7 min to test my claim:

 

 

[Hael]

Its looking about as close to a bust as i've ever seen in a rookie qb with such a limited sample.  Darnold looked better as a reference if i'm being objective about things.

The two 'half' games where he's supposedly 'flashed', kinda look meh when you rewatch them (with a lot of footwork issues, lack of accuracy, and some questionable decision making).  I mean, he is basically being given very rudimentary plays to run (which are designed to not expose him).  When he follows the protocol, he looks semi passable..  Then the opposition changes it up and things break down, and then it just goes off the rails and falls into a floating dumpster fire of atrociousness that you just don't see at this level, even amongst rookies. 

If anything, he's been lucky that stats haven't been much worse.  In all his 'no pick' games, there are multiple throws that could easily have been picked off.

Look, I really want to like this kid.  Joe Montana was my favorite qb of all time growing up.  I love mobile qbs that are smooth, playmakers and make the game look effortless.  There are times where I see a little bit of that same smoothness of motion.  But my goodness, the ability is just not even close to being there.  It's so very raw.   Like years away type of raw.  So unless he's the worlds fastest learner, I just don't think he's going to be given enough time.  Sadly, I give him very long odds at this point and hope to be wrong...

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

Year one is a wash. Rookie HC, rookie, OC, rookie QB. If you wanted to write up a recipe for a tank season, you have your formula. He's been bad, but I will not begin thinking about Zach being a bust until the start of 2022. It's too early to make a determination on a rosy cheeked 22-year-old QB. 

[Jet Nut]

Watched Leger Douzable on SNY breakdown tape from last weeks Fish game and theres a lot to be optimistic about.  He read the blitz correctly, beat the 0 cover blitz whenever the fish used it and thats something Darnold couldn't do in year 3.   There were more examples where Douzable said that was pretty heady for a rookie QB.  And Douz has been critical of Zachs play, he doesnt pull his punches

Maybe we still have a shot a getting lucky 

[T0mShane]

59 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I dont agree that it should be his job to lose, but I agree that it will be his job to lose.  That said, if they dont bring someone in that can actually do that, and really considered it a competition that Zach can lose, personally I'm done with these guys.  I'm not a fan of the New York Zach Wilson's, I'm a fan of the New York Jets.

 

Why would they force Zach to compete next year if they didn’t do it this year? 

[Jet Nut]

Yeah, Wilson, Lawrence and Fields will all have competitors, real competitors with a chance of winning the starting job on their teams rosters.

People believe this?

[Hal N of Provo]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Why would they force Zach to compete next year if they didn’t do it this year? 

*when he will win because he plays well when not confused.  

[chirorob]

8 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

The answer is nobody knows , and you’re lying if you say you do.   I agree with competition ( that lit his fire in college) , but he  will be in the mix next season.  In the meantime, its a waste of time to debate 

I know, but I'm not going to tell you.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Hal N of Provo said:

*when he will win because he plays well when not confused.  

I don’t think his problem is confusion, he seems to make the right reads.

[Hal N of Provo]

Just now, T0mShane said:

I don’t think his problem is confusion, he seems to make the right reads.

Why was he good in camp and the preseason? 

[NIGHT STALKER]

If he is a bust, what does that tell our fan base?  Here's what it tells me...ENOUGH IS ENOUGH with drafting QB's.  As some of you know, I've been a fan of this team since '64 when we drafted Namath.  How many GM's and HC's have we had?  A ton and none of them could draft a FQB...NONE OF THEM!  It's time if Wilson doesn't work out to give up draft picks and get ourselves an established QB that can come in here and lead this team.  Even then that doesn't guarantee success, but drafting that position does not work for us...it's well documented. 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Why was he good in camp and the preseason? 

For the same reason every QB looks good in preseason?

[Hal N of Provo]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

For the same reason every QB looks good in preseason?

Go on…. Why did Zach look good?  What did he do right?  

HAHAHAHA.   Don’t say anything nice.   It would trigger the apocalypse.  
 

(Also, not true.   Not every QB looks good in preseason, but we can ignore this.). 

[Larz]

The standard for TD passes in this NFL is about 25

he has what, 19 to go ?

[playtowinthegame]

1 hour ago, BCJet said:

So the saints shutting out the best QB in the history of the NFL the following week didnt factor into your analysis?  They have an excellent defense, that is a big part of why zach struggled so much in that game. 

Did you know Cam Jordan didn't play for the Saints vs the Jets? 

[varjet]

Looking at it another way, a team drafting high has to take chances at franchise QBs.   Wilson does not look that much worse, if worse, than Lawrence.  He is relatively cheap.  Darnold won 7 games at $6mm/year.   Even Wentz and Goff went to the playoffs and Super Bowl.   He could have been great.  Was it worth spending $10-$20mm on a mediocre QB who wins you too many games to try again?  

Theoretically, the Jets could draft another QB if they don’t like Wilson-he was that bad, its just a question if a QB is there that they like.   It is going to be very bad for JD if he passes on Pickett, Corral, etc. and they end up being better than Wilson.  

But if I were the Johnsons, I would strap JD and Wilson together-unless Wilson can be traded for a decent return and they can reboot, JD has to ride Wilson-if he completely bombs there should be a reasonable backup to help the offense grow, but he has to try and give Wilson a real shot.   Then JD, Wilson and the coaches JD hired can move forward, and with a high pick the

Johnsons can try again with a new front office.  

I actually believe with some real and constant off-season work, Wilson will come back much better.  I am not entirely sure he is the QB of the future, but I do feel he can be more like Stafford than JaMarcus Russell in terms of turning around a bad first season.  

Watch what the Jets do if the trade any draft picks though.  JD should only want picks this year.  If he takes a 2023 first its to trade up for a QB. 

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

I dont agree that it should be his job to lose, but I agree that it will be his job to lose.  That said, if they dont bring someone in that can actually do that, and really considered it a competition that Zach can lose, personally I'm done with these guys.  I'm not a fan of the New York Zach Wilson's, I'm a fan of the New York Jets.

 

Honestly I struggle to be. The offense was much more fun to watch with any of the other three QBs. Mike White’s guest fave was by far my favorite. Flacco playing against Dolphins heavy pass rush was awesome as well. I liked Flacco since he came out. Plus I like 4 quarters if football when I watch not two. 

[Saul Goodman]

Doubt that the Jets bring in any legit competition next year. Training camp is about 8 months from now. I mean, who is Zach Wilson beating out in a QB competition? Not Mike White or Joe Flacco, much less any competent vet. Not trying to pile on, but that’s the truth. 

[Snell41]

In all seriousness, here’s what I don’t like about him in a nutshell- go to his last press conference this week. He was asked about watching a lot of film- his answer was “it’s not the QB’s responsibility to analyze hours and hours of film. The coaches do that and devise a game plan based on what they see. It’s our job to execute that game plan”. The other thing he said was to the effect “I have to make sure I know the plays in detail so I know exactly where my guys will be”

Those are two statements he made this week and go right to my point that he doesn’t know the NFL game at all. The coaches pour through film to come up with a game plan, I agree. It’s also the QB’s job to know the Offensive plays through and through,I agree. What’s missing is while Zach is not pouring over film and working so hard to know our own plays, he’s not grasping what the opposing DEFENSE is trying to do before the game, before the play, and during the play. Knowing where your own players will be is basic common football. Knowing where the defense is going to be and how to combat that BEFORE THE SNAP is 90% of being a QB in this league. Unfortunately Zach spent an entire college career going against such scrubs that Zach didn’t even have to worry about the D because he had time to react to what he saw mid play. He will never have that time in the NFL. Part of why Tom Brady is the best QB probably ever is because he was studying Defense alongside the greatest defensive mind in the game. He knew what the D was going to do before the play even started. More than any other player in the NFL Zach needs to be studying NFL level defensive schemes and strategies, otherwise he’s not going to make it in this league.

I’d like to preface this post with the fact that Zach is a nice boy, such a good boy!


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[Icer]

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck

[Rangers9]

1 hour ago, Saul Goodman said:

Doubt that the Jets bring in any legit competition next year. Training camp is about 8 months from now. I mean, who is Zach Wilson beating out in a QB competition? Not Mike White or Joe Flacco, much less any competent vet. Not trying to pile on, but that’s the truth. 

I'd like to see real competition in training camp. Every time in the past when a young Qb just given the job it usually hasn't worked out. We might get the good Zach more often next season if his job is on the line. As for who we bring in to compete with him I hope they re-sign White and a vet. 

[BRONX DUDE]

THIS IS NO LONGER A QUESTION //

 

Disappointedly  so   

[BRONX DUDE]

8 minutes ago, Icer said:

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck

ducks suck

ducks suck

ducks suck

 

                               

ducks suck

ducks suck

ducks suck

[Snell41]

Why was he good in camp and the preseason? 

Because he was going against basic Vanilla defenses. Period.


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[BRONX DUDE]

1 hour ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Why was he good in camp and the preseason? 

That is "coach speak" Provolone dude

 

[slimjasi]

Too early for this. Ask me at the end of next season. 

Him and Saleh are both having a tough rookie year. No way around that. 

[Jets723]

25 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

In all seriousness, here’s what I don’t like about him in a nutshell- go to his last press conference this week. He was asked about watching a lot of film- his answer was “it’s not the QB’s responsibility to analyze hours and hours of film. The coaches do that and devise a game plan based on what they see. It’s our job to execute that game plan”. The other thing he said was to the effect “I have to make sure I know the plays in detail so I know exactly where my guys will be”

Those are two statements he made this week and go right to my point that he doesn’t know the NFL game at all. The coaches pour through film to come up with a game plan, I agree. It’s also the QB’s job to know the Offensive plays through and through,I agree. What’s missing is while Zach is not pouring over film and working so hard to know our own plays, he’s not grasping what the opposing DEFENSE is trying to do before the game, before the play, and during the play. Knowing where your own players will be is basic common football. Knowing where the defense is going to be and how to combat that BEFORE THE SNAP is 90% of being a QB in this league. Unfortunately Zach spent an entire college career going against such scrubs that Zach didn’t even have to worry about the D because he had time to react to what he saw mid play. He will never have that time in the NFL. Part of why Tom Brady is the best QB probably ever is because he was studying Defense alongside the greatest defensive mind in the game. He knew what the D was going to do before the play even started. More than any other player in the NFL Zach needs to be studying NFL level defensive schemes and strategies, otherwise he’s not going to make it in this league.

I’d like to preface this post with the fact that Zach is a nice boy, such a good boy!


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I think some people are reading way too much into that comment.  He has been a class act since he’s been here

[GangGreened]

They won’t bring in any competition that will cause a controversy if he’s not playing well again. This year he was a rookie. Next year, his teammates will have a lot less patience if he plays like this.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Too early for this. Ask me at the end of next season. 

Him and Saleh are both having a tough rookie year. No way around that. 

Biggest game in Zach’s and Saleh’s career on Sunday. The Jags are the worst team they’ll face this season. If they come out and suck, their offseasons are going to be brutal.