My theory of what’s going on

[92ShaunEllis92]

20 minutes ago, Lith said:

I don't know what to think of Lafleur.  He has certainly not succeeded in bringing Wilson along, but is that on Lafleur or it on Wilson.

It is not Lafluer's fault that Zach chose to run rather than throw to a wide open Denzel Mims in the EZ in Q2 Sunday.  It is not Lafleur's fault that Zach sailed one 5 feet over Tyler Conklin's head into the arms of Devin McCourty who dropped it.  It is not Lafleur's fault that Wilson threw one into the ground 6 feet in front of an ipen Elijah Moore, past the sticks on a 3rd down throw.  It is not Lafleur's fault that Wilson did not throw to an open Moore past the sticks on the 3rd down play before the game ending punt.  It is not Lafleur's fault that Wilson sailed one 6-8 feet above Braxton Berrios' head in the flat.

I don't know if Lafluer is good or not becuase his QB has not been capable of consistently running an NFL offense. 

Agree with a good portion of your statements. 
 

Is it then on (and not to place blame, but more so to identify who is in charge of correcting the source of the mistake) the QB coach when it comes to correcting his footwork (to improve accuracy) and improve his recognition & progression ability (internal clock)?

if LaFleaur is only in charge of play design and game day calls, who (Rob Calabrese) is the one actually developing Wilson? Last year it was too many QB coaches and now it seems no one is correcting his VERY identifiable and (in the fanbase’s opinion) correctable mistakes that need to be coached up/drilled out of him. 

[CanadienJetsFan]

1 hour ago, mrcoops said:

I'm old enough to remember when MLF was a genius, and on the shortlist for future HC openings. I think it was around week 7 or 8.

THIS.

[derp]

Alternative theory: the QB just cost the team a game against a division rival by not being able to move the ball after costing the team the game against the same division rival with poor decision making and being too aggressive. He then did not take any accountability after the game. The wide receivers visibly expressed frustration with him and the defensive players can't be happy about how the game went. Coaching staff wants to make sure they don't lose the locker room just to play the one guy.

[Claymation]

38 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

The run game against NE was not productive because the BB and the Pats focused on shutting down the run due to their very well founded understanding that they had nothing to worry about from ZW.  Quite the contrary.  Every time the ball is in Wilson's hand, it is a big bonus for the Pats defense. 

They weren't moving the ball through the air. Why not go with 12 or 13 personnel, have Zach under center and use a play action. Do something. Because a toss sweep to Robinson with 4 WOs isn't what I would call creative.

[Irish Jet]

We are in the f*cking Twilight Zone. 

[choon328]

10 minutes ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

Agree with a good portion of your statements. 
 

Is it then on (and not to place blame, but more so to identify who is in charge of correcting the source of the mistake) the QB coach when it comes to correcting his footwork (to improve accuracy) and improve his recognition & progression ability (internal clock)?

if LaFleaur is only in charge of play design and game day calls, who (Rob Calabrese) is the one actually developing Wilson? Last year it was too many QB coaches and now it seems no one is correcting his VERY identifiable and (in the fanbase’s opinion) correctable mistakes that need to be coached up/drilled out of him. 

I have a hard time believing that nobody is trying to correct Wilson's footwork. It's more likely that they spend extensive time on it and when he gets in the game and the bullets are flying he just forgets everything and reverts back to what he's done his entire life. I do think he studies hard and practices hard but I think the game is too fast for him to process what he's seeing post snap. What compounds that issue is that I don't think he's very good at diagnosing what's going on pre snap either. His football IQ in games is tremendously lower then I expected and I'm sure it's much lower then the organization expected by this time in his development. 

In this offense arm strength is the least needed trait, mental awareness and accuracy are way more important. He struggles in both of those things and I'm sure they've been working to improve him in those areas for 2 years,  it's just not clicking for him. 

[THE BARON]

6 minutes ago, Claymation said:

They weren't moving the ball through the air. Why not go with 12 or 13 personnel, have Zach under center and use a play action. Do something. Because a toss sweep to Robinson with 4 WOs isn't what I would call creative.

Going heavy would have been something that seems to make good sense,  but like the man-child QB said, nobody outside the building really knows what's going on.  It was not a mistake to draft ZW, I don't think.  It was a mistake to start him.  He has skills, but needed a few years to learn and mature as a player and person before he took the field.  Many teams are way to eager to get their new 1st round QB on the field.  

[Claymation]

3 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

We are in the f*cking Twilight Zone. 

 

[Irish Jet]

Just now, Claymation said:

 

Did you watch the game?

I struggle to think of a more flattering stat line than Zach vs New England. 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 hour ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

It’s not mental gymnastics or a defense of Wilson. I dgaf what happens to Wilson. I’m simply worried that our Oc blows chunks and there is a lot of evidence pointing at that. You are so blinded by your wilson hate that you can’t see any other issues with the team. 

WE are so blinded trying to find the location of his errant throws.  The last time my head was on such a swivel was the mid 90s at Jenkinsons or Bar A.

 

[92ShaunEllis92]

10 minutes ago, choon328 said:

I have a hard time believing that nobody is trying to correct Wilson's footwork. It's more likely that they spend extensive time on it and when he gets in the game and the bullets are flying he just forgets everything and reverts back to what he's done his entire life. I do think he studies hard and practices hard but I think the game is too fast for him to process what he's seeing post snap. What compounds that issue is that I don't think he's very good at diagnosing what's going on pre snap either. His football IQ in games is tremendously lower then I expected and I'm sure it's much lower then the organization expected by this time in his development. 

In this offense arm strength is the least needed trait, mental awareness and accuracy are way more important. He struggles in both of those things and I'm sure they've been working to improve him in those areas for 2 years,  it's just not clicking for him. 

So Browning Nagle 2.0 ?

[Lith]

28 minutes ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

Agree with a good portion of your statements. 
 

Is it then on (and not to place blame, but more so to identify who is in charge of correcting the source of the mistake) the QB coach when it comes to correcting his footwork (to improve accuracy) and improve his recognition & progression ability (internal clock)?

if LaFleaur is only in charge of play design and game day calls, who (Rob Calabrese) is the one actually developing Wilson? Last year it was too many QB coaches and now it seems no one is correcting his VERY identifiable and (in the fanbase’s opinion) correctable mistakes that need to be coached up/drilled out of him. 

It is on the Coaching staff collectively to support and develop the QB.   As the leader of the offenisve staff, Lafluer bears ultimate responsbility for that.  But I don't think any of us really know how much of Zach's lack of development is on the CS or on Zach himself.  I think game plans have been fine, execution is what has been hurting us.  I don't know if we just have a bad QB who is not capable of learning or a staff that has not been able to help him develop into a solid pro. 

Which is why I said I really do not know what to make of Lafleur.

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Wilson not being able to hit the backside of a barn aside, I think the big problem here is LeFleur 

The “big” problem is Zach. An additional concern is MLF. I think that should be obvious and evident to everyone, regardless thank you for the fresh take.

[BeaconJet]

1 hour ago, THE BARON said:

They could have dealt him in the offseason.  

Selling low on an asset is usually a bad strategy. They gambled he could rebuild his value and lost but they still had two starting quality tackles plus Mitchell, without Becton. Injuries have killed the line.

[southparkcpa]

2 hours ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Some facts 

- Moore and lefleur got into it before he requested a trade 

- Garrett Wilson’s comments post game seemed directed at the offensive game plan 

- Saleh yesterday said that he was late due to some personal issues going on with staff (hmmm) 

- When asked if changes would include a change at play caller Saleh sort of paused and didn’t definitively shut the door on that 

Wilson not being able to hit the backside of a barn aside, I think the big problem here is LeFleur 

There are enough plays here to show Zach is not helping himself.  Plenty of missed receivers, plenty of wide open receivers, poor short passes etc.  The play calling may not be stellar but Zach was just awful.

[SickJetFan]

i think they both suck right now.  Zach issues obvious but to me the 1 telling issue about MLF and coaching staff in general is how an unknown Canadian used the players on the team with absolutely no coaching/meddling from coaches was able to move the team up and down the field during pre-season 3 games in a row on his own.  How was that possible?  (yeah yeah ups drivers.etc.etc.etc. aside mike white laid egg with 2 years coaching against same competition)  sometimes players elevate coaching (most times).

 

 

 

[cbudiarjo]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

The QB touches the ball every play. Some say it all starts with the OL but the QB is close behind. If you are calling plays and your QB is not executing them when you have WRs streaking uncovered into the EZ and your QB doesn't  throw the ball, instead runs it himself, how do you expect there to be better numbers than what you said. 

i agree.  Zach is the biggest problem with the offense.  but that doesn't mean he's the only problem.  

[varjet]

• When you look at the NFL, the Shanahan/Reid system continues to impress when you have the right players.   The Jets are 6-2 this season when not playing the Patriots.   ML will be a HC in the NFL.  He must be frustrated as well because of Wilson's performance, particularly against the Patriots.
• The Jets offense relies on the run.  Without Breece Hall, with OL injured and facing a monster NEP front and the defensive genius BB, the Jets offense is not going to work.
• But the Jets' remaining 7 games are not against the Patriots.  Zach Wilson can play better and well enough to win most of the Jets remaining games, just like he won the other games.
• That is not to say that Zach is the long term solution.  It is clear that he was not a good draft pick, and he is not.  In a perfect world the Jets would sign Jimmy G, paying the money, and then trade Zach for a box of donuts so long as someone assumed his $3mm of roster bonus and salary.  The Jets would take a $12mm cap hit to trade Zach Wilson.  So maybe the plan is Jimmy G/ZW as back up until Zach can move on cost effectively.  
• But the biggest problem here is ZW's attitude and the stuff he said while playing incredibly poorly.  I think practically Saleh has two choices-bench him for Chicago and give MW or Flacco a chance, or start ZW again based on how he played in the other games he started, other than NEP, but give the back up alot of reps and tell ZW he is on a short leash.   ZW has been effectively demoted.
• I am not convinced that ZW is getting or absorbing the QB coaching he needs to be successful.  The Jets continue to miss the guy who was tragically killed.   Maybe Zach is not getting it.   Based on what I see, when ML does move on to be an HC, the Jets are screwed.  

[Integrity28]

7 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

There are enough plays here to show Zach is not helping himself.  Plenty of missed receivers, plenty of wide open receivers, poor short passes etc.  The play calling may not be stellar but Zach was just awful.

I mean, imagine calling basic plays, seeing how tragic the execution is, then trying to call something easier.

The “call the good plays” crowd needs to sit the **** down.

[SickJetFan]

2 minutes ago, varjet said:

• When you look at the NFL, the Shanahan/Reid system continues to impress when you have the right players.   The Jets are 6-2 this season when not playing the Patriots.   ML will be a HC in the NFL.  He must be frustrated as well because of Wilson's performance, particularly against the Patriots.
• The Jets offense relies on the run.  Without Breece Hall, with OL injured and facing a monster NEP front and the defensive genius BB, the Jets offense is not going to work.
• But the Jets' remaining 7 games are not against the Patriots.  Zach Wilson can play better and well enough to win most of the Jets remaining games, just like he won the other games.
• That is not to say that Zach is the long term solution.  It is clear that he was not a good draft pick, and he is not.  In a perfect world the Jets would sign Jimmy G, paying the money, and then trade Zach for a box of donuts so long as someone assumed his $3mm of roster bonus and salary.  The Jets would take a $12mm cap hit to trade Zach Wilson.  So maybe the plan is Jimmy G/ZW as back up until Zach can move on cost effectively.  
• But the biggest problem here is ZW's attitude and the stuff he said while playing incredibly poorly.  I think practically Saleh has two choices-bench him for Chicago and give MW or Flacco a chance, or start ZW again based on how he played in the other games he started, other than NEP, but give the back up alot of reps and tell ZW he is on a short leash.   ZW has been effectively demoted.
• I am not convinced that ZW is getting or absorbing the QB coaching he needs to be successful.  The Jets continue to miss the guy who was tragically killed.   Maybe Zach is not getting it.   Based on what I see, when ML does move on to be an HC, the Jets are screwed.  

Im not worried about MLF getting a new job and I doubt the Jets are either.. He is basically using the Jets for on the job training which there are a lot of good coaches out there that could be doing the same

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

It’s not mental gymnastics or a defense of Wilson. I dgaf what happens to Wilson. I’m simply worried that our Oc blows chunks and there is a lot of evidence pointing at that. You are so blinded by your wilson hate that you can’t see any other issues with the team. 

Its funny how that could easily be spun to suggest people who love Zach can be blinded by any other issues with the team.  

[southparkcpa]

4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I mean, imagine calling basic plays, seeing how tragic the execution is, then trying to call something easier.

The “call the good plays” crowd needs to sit the **** down.

Interestingly, I thought you were on the side of "MLF" needs to be replaced.  The plays, based on the video I posted, appeared to be the ONLY type of plays he can make, and he aint makin em.  MLF's hands are tied.  Zach was lucky we didn't have 3 picks. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Can’t wait for the “Zach Wilson requests trade to team where nobody cares if he sucks or not” blurb on Rotoworld

Maybe we can sucker CAR one more time

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Saleh/Ulbrich were being called out last year because the defense was worst in the league. And now they have talent and guys that actually know what they're doing. And ta-da! They're good again! 

Coaches aren't perfect but they need the players to execute. OC is gonna be questioned when the most important piece to the offense can't read defenses or air mails a swing pass. Makes everyone look bad. 

I do question the staffs development of Zach during the offseason though. His footwork has been a problem from Day 1, idk why it hasn't been drilled into his head by now. Still think this goes back to having basically a mickey mouse QB coach. 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, southparkcpa said:

Interestingly, I thought you were on the side of :MLF" needs to be replaced.  The plays, based on the video I posted, appeared to be the ONLY type of plays he can make, and he aint makin em.  MLF's hands are tied.  Zach was lucky we didn't have 3 picks. 

The main problems i have with blindly blaming the OC are 1) we don’t know how the plays should have been executed and 2) to what extent is the OC revising the offense b/c of Wilson’s deficiencies.

[SR24]

Both things can be true Zach sucks and Lafleurs been underwhelming. QB sucking or not the offense had 2 total yds in the 2nd half the OC has to take some accountability for that as well. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

12 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

There are enough plays here to show Zach is not helping himself.  Plenty of missed receivers, plenty of wide open receivers, poor short passes etc.  The play calling may not be stellar but Zach was just awful.

ZW just needs a playcaller who can transport the ball from his hand into the waiting hands of one of his WRs

Like a DoorDash delivery service for WRs 

the coaches clearly aren’t doing enough to help him  

[IndianaJet]

1 hour ago, Lith said:

I don't know what to think of Lafleur.  He has certainly not succeeded in bringing Wilson along, but is that on Lafleur or it on Wilson.

It is not Lafluer's fault that Zach chose to run rather than throw to a wide open Denzel Mims in the EZ in Q2 Sunday.  It is not Lafleur's fault that Zach sailed one 5 feet over Tyler Conklin's head into the arms of Devin McCourty who dropped it.  It is not Lafleur's fault that Wilson threw one into the ground 6 feet in front of an open Elijah Moore, past the sticks on a 3rd down throw.  It is not Lafleur's fault that Wilson did not throw to an open Moore past the sticks on the 3rd down play before the game ending punt.  It is not Lafleur's fault that Wilson sailed one 6-8 feet above Braxton Berrios' head in the flat.

I don't know if Lafluer is good or not because his QB has not been capable of consistently running an NFL offense. 

It's not Lafluer's fault that the one good pass Zach threw all day was dropped by Mims.

[batman10023]

1 hour ago, THE BARON said:

They could have dealt him in the offseason.  

was there a buy for him this offseason?

hindsight it 20/20 also.  hard to predict him getting injured again.

but it was clearly a bust pick.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Just now, SR24 said:

Both things can be true Zach sucks and Lafleurs been underwhelming. QB sucking or not the offense had 2 total yds in the 2nd half the OC has to take some accountability for that as well. 

Yeah, not sure why this is such a hard concept for the sheep on this board to process. And I would add, if the OC and the HC believed that ZW was the sole problem here, and didnt bench him for someone else to try to win the most important game of the year, they are actually worse at their job than ZW is at is.

[Jetsfan80]

In the last 2 seasons, there have been 5 games where the Jets offense produced 30+ points.  3 of them were games where Zach Wilson was NOT under center.  This despite Wilson starting 20 of the 27 games.  I.E. 43 % of non-Wilson games resulting in 30+ points being scored, versus 10 % of Wilson games.

But sure, LaFleur is the biggest problem.

Stop making threads dude.    

[More Cowbell]

10 minutes ago, cbudiarjo said:

i agree.  Zach is the biggest problem with the offense.  but that doesn't mean he's the only problem.  

I agree,  there was bad blocking and there was a lot of missed tackles on defense. There are definitely  other things that need to be cleaned up but had we say drafted Fields or even had we selected Devonte Smith even and kept Darnold, we probably win this game. 

[Integrity28]

3 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Interestingly, I thought you were on the side of "MLF" needs to be replaced.  The plays, based on the video I posted, appeared to be the ONLY type of plays he can make, and he aint makin em.  MLF's hands are tied.  Zach was lucky we didn't have 3 picks. 

No, I’ve been clear - MLF is not bad - I think his struggles are a symptom of Zach being putrid. MLF has been fine with competent QB play. Most coaches are. In other words players are more important.

[elvispookie]

I dont think this post is based in reality.  Let me go to your dreamland for a second..  so Zach is pretty good in this fantasy world but his evil offensive coordinator is just hindering his ability..  got it.  So at no time in this fantasy world does Zach just say.. "nah.. I am not doing this.. I am going to do it my way"... he apparently does not.. and he happily lets the evil offensive coordinator allow him to throw for.... ******checks notes****** 2 ******* yards?  Got it.

Or maybe... just maybe.. back here in reality... Zach sucks and he is making the offensive coordinator look like he doesnt know what hes doing.

[Integrity28]

4 minutes ago, SR24 said:

Both things can be true Zach sucks and Lafleurs been underwhelming. QB sucking or not the offense had 2 total yds in the 2nd half the OC has to take some accountability for that as well. 

Yea, but this ignores cause and effect.