Do the Jets even need a franchise QB?

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

I recently was firmly in the YES category.  A franchise QB (top 8 or so) is critical to sustained success and the path to Super Bowl victories.

My opinion has changed this year, partly because of what seems to be rising acquisition costs (Watson, R. Wilson) and partly because of the IMPACT of elite WRs (Diggs to Buffalo, Hill to Miami, Brown to Philly).  A ‘good’ QB like Tua has been talked about as NFL MVP, a year or so after his own team was looking to possibly trade him.  

I now favor quality system QBs with upside. The success of Jimmy G (now Purdy) and Heinicke are reinforcing this strategy.  Both the 49ers and Commanders spent a lot trying to upgrade rather than building around the guys they already had.  Also consider the sustained success of Cousins or an aging Brees, guys who don’t have elite arms or physical attributes but who have been field generals of well oiled offensive machines.

Don’t get me wrong, there are maybe 3 or 4 QBs who are worth the cap cost.  A guy like Mahomes…. My opinion also changes if a rare can’t miss stud like Manning or Luck become available in the draft. 

Now to the Jets >>

AVT, Garrett Wilson, Breece Hall & Bam Knight are core pieces of what can be an offensive machine.  We have the resources & flexibility to strengthen and fine tune this machine this off-season.  

Am I confident we have the right OC?  No, I’m not.

Am I confident we have the right QB?  Not yet but the picture will become clearer over these last 4 (+) games.

But I am confident we don’t need and won’t go out and get a franchise QB.  We don’t even need Zach to turn into one (would be great if he did).  

How about you, do you believe the Jets need or should go out and get (FA, trade, draft) a franchise QB?  If so, also interested in your plan given the Jets have about $15M projected 2023 cap space, possibly $7-8M after allocating a portion for the draft pool.  
 

(hopefully an interesting topic to debate as many have loosely thrown out this term in the discussion about Mike White).

 

[BloodGreen]

Excellent post. This has been my thoughts exactly. If you have skill position and defensive talent throughout, a game manager type QB can win.

[Matt39]

Having a franchise QB would be good, yes.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

what is your goal? to try to sneak into the playoffs every couple of years with good rosters and JAG QB's? Than no, you don't need one.

If its to try to have a legit chance year in and year out to win a SB, then yes, you very much need one.

[PS17]

5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Having a franchise QB would be good, yes.

But really hard to obtain. The SF all star team model with a competent game manager is looking pretty good right now. 

[Adoni Beast]

I would love one because it helps cover up gaps due to injuries, free agency, etc.

But I think you make good points that teams are going to start looking to scale back on paying astronomical $ for the likes of Kirk Cousins and co.

I think you’re going to have to be able to truly carry a team to get that kind of $.

[BornJetsFan1983]

24 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I recently was firmly in the YES category.  A franchise QB (top 8 or so) is critical to sustained success and the path to Super Bowl victories.

My opinion has changed this year, partly because of what seems to be rising acquisition costs (Watson, R. Wilson) and partly because of the IMPACT of elite WRs (Diggs to Buffalo, Hill to Miami, Brown to Philly).  A ‘good’ QB like Tua has been talked about as NFL MVP, a year or so after his own team was looking to possibly trade him.  

I now favor quality system QBs with upside. The success of Jimmy G (now Purdy) and Heinicke are reinforcing this strategy.  Both the 49ers and Commanders spent a lot trying to upgrade rather than building around the guys they already had.  Also consider the sustained success of Cousins or an aging Brees, guys who don’t have elite arms or physical attributes but who have been field generals of well oiled offensive machines.

Don’t get me wrong, there are maybe 3 or 4 QBs who are worth the cap cost.  A guy like Mahomes…. My opinion also changes if a rare can’t miss stud like Manning or Luck become available in the draft. 

Now to the Jets >>

AVT, Garrett Wilson, Breece Hall & Bam Knight are core pieces of what can be an offensive machine.  We have the resources & flexibility to strengthen and fine tune this machine this off-season.  

Am I confident we have the right OC?  No, I’m not.

Am I confident we have the right QB?  Not yet but the picture will become clearer over these last 4 (+) games.

But I am confident we don’t need and won’t go out and get a franchise QB.  We don’t even need Zach to turn into one (would be great if he did).  

How about you, do you believe the Jets need or should go out and get (FA, trade, draft) a franchise QB?  If so, also interested in your plan given the Jets have about $15M projected 2023 cap space, possibly $7-8M after allocating a portion for the draft pool.  
 

(hopefully an interesting topic to debate as many have loosely thrown out this term in the discussion about Mike White).

 

beauty of the system...just need someone ro run the offense and make some plays now and then. Set up so you dont need a brady or rogers.

[xJayce]

17 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I recently was firmly in the YES category.  A franchise QB (top 8 or so) is critical to sustained success and the path to Super Bowl victories.

My opinion has changed this year, partly because of what seems to be rising acquisition costs (Watson, R. Wilson) and partly because of the IMPACT of elite WRs (Diggs to Buffalo, Hill to Miami, Brown to Philly).  A ‘good’ QB like Tua has been talked about as NFL MVP, a year or so after his own team was looking to possibly trade him.  

I now favor quality system QBs with upside. The success of Jimmy G (now Purdy) and Heinicke are reinforcing this strategy.  Both the 49ers and Commanders spent a lot trying to upgrade rather than building around the guys they already had.  Also consider the sustained success of Cousins or an aging Brees, guys who don’t have elite arms or physical attributes but who have been field generals of well oiled offensive machines.

Don’t get me wrong, there are maybe 3 or 4 QBs who are worth the cap cost.  A guy like Mahomes…. My opinion also changes if a rare can’t miss stud like Manning or Luck become available in the draft. 

Now to the Jets >>

AVT, Garrett Wilson, Breece Hall & Bam Knight are core pieces of what can be an offensive machine.  We have the resources & flexibility to strengthen and fine tune this machine this off-season.  

Am I confident we have the right OC?  No, I’m not.

Am I confident we have the right QB?  Not yet but the picture will become clearer over these last 4 (+) games.

But I am confident we don’t need and won’t go out and get a franchise QB.  We don’t even need Zach to turn into one (would be great if he did).  

How about you, do you believe the Jets need or should go out and get (FA, trade, draft) a franchise QB?  If so, also interested in your plan given the Jets have about $15M projected 2023 cap space, possibly $7-8M after allocating a portion for the draft pool.  
 

(hopefully an interesting topic to debate as many have loosely thrown out this term in the discussion about Mike White).

 

I've been thinking that a competent QB is what we needed. White has been competent, but we're 1-2 with him (no, Wins / losses are not a QB stat, it was just to illustrate that even with better QB play, we currently have a losing record). Against the Vikes, we were a Berrios drop away from winning, and against the Bills, we lost the turnover battle (both fumbles really hurt us).

I think Mike White at least gets us to the playoffs if we can start cutting out some of the stupid crap we do (4 flags against 84 in the last two games, and WTF was Mosley doing jumping over the line on 4th down?!?!?!). I think we shoot ourselves in the foot a lot more than other teams do, and if we can address that, we can compete.

[WhartonJet]

3 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I recently was firmly in the YES category.  A franchise QB (top 8 or so) is critical to sustained success and the path to Super Bowl victories.

My opinion has changed this year, partly because of what seems to be rising acquisition costs (Watson, R. Wilson) and partly because of the IMPACT of elite WRs (Diggs to Buffalo, Hill to Miami, Brown to Philly).  A ‘good’ QB like Tua has been talked about as NFL MVP, a year or so after his own team was looking to possibly trade him.  

I now favor quality system QBs with upside. The success of Jimmy G (now Purdy) and Heinicke are reinforcing this strategy.  Both the 49ers and Commanders spent a lot trying to upgrade rather than building around the guys they already had.  Also consider the sustained success of Cousins or an aging Brees, guys who don’t have elite arms or physical attributes but who have been field generals of well oiled offensive machines.

Don’t get me wrong, there are maybe 3 or 4 QBs who are worth the cap cost.  A guy like Mahomes…. My opinion also changes if a rare can’t miss stud like Manning or Luck become available in the draft. 

Now to the Jets >>

AVT, Garrett Wilson, Breece Hall & Bam Knight are core pieces of what can be an offensive machine.  We have the resources & flexibility to strengthen and fine tune this machine this off-season.  

Am I confident we have the right OC?  No, I’m not.

Am I confident we have the right QB?  Not yet but the picture will become clearer over these last 4 (+) games.

But I am confident we don’t need and won’t go out and get a franchise QB.  We don’t even need Zach to turn into one (would be great if he did).  

How about you, do you believe the Jets need or should go out and get (FA, trade, draft) a franchise QB?  If so, also interested in your plan given the Jets have about $15M projected 2023 cap space, possibly $7-8M after allocating a portion for the draft pool.  
 

(hopefully an interesting topic to debate as many have loosely thrown out this term in the discussion about Mike White).

 

I'm a fan of Mike White and think his game can improve to the level where we can have sustained success with him.  But, to your point if we could layer elite QB play on top of the skill position players we have on offense and our great defense, we are instant Super Bowl contenders.  Who is that guy?  If Aaron Rodgers becomes available, I think he is the one you go after even though it will cost draft capital/cap space.

He was an MVP a year ago, and still having a decent season with no weapons.  At age 39, he could still give you 2-3 elite seasons.

[Alka]

26 minutes ago, BloodGreen said:

Excellent post. This has been my thoughts exactly. If you have skill position and defensive talent throughout, a game manager type QB can win.

I said it back then and I will say it now, "The Jets should have kept Darnold and traded the pick for a boatload of draft picks."  You can go back in the archives and see where I said it repeatedly.

So, Okay, you don't like Darnold?  No problem, we would have gotten Mike White anyway without the draft picks.  Maybe Darnold was not the answer, but it seemed like the Jets were considering keeping Darnold.  At least that's what they said back then.  I never understood the fascination with Zach, and quite frankly, I don't see Mike White as the answer either.  

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

2 minutes ago, WhartonJet said:

I'm a fan of Mike White and think his game can improve to the level where we can have sustained success with him.  But, to your point if we could layer elite QB play on top of the skills position players we have on offense and our great defense, we are instant Super Bowl contenders.  Who is that guy?  If Aaron Rodgers becomes available, I think he is the one you go after even though it will cost draft capital/cap space.

He was an MVP a year ago, and still having a decent season with no weapons.  At age 39, he could still give you 2-3 elite seasons.

NOOOO!  He is 1) too old for a young team like the Jets; 2) a complete and total a$$hole, and 3) a classic playoff choker who continually comes up small in big spots.  That trade will cost the Jets a ransom, mortgaging the future for a QB who looks to me like he is done.  If he gives a team one good season, I'd be surprised.  

[Creepy Lurker]

I do not want to waste time and significant resources trying to “hit the jackpot” and getting a top 5-10 true FQB. It’s not likely and the equivalent of putting all of your eggs in 1 basket. You can’t have a backup that fills in if you rely on ONE player this much. System players in general and diversifying your talent allows you to stay competitive despite unpredictable injuries.
 

When you factor the going rate/cost for a true FQB that can fall apart (Russell Wilson), it becomes a no brainer. I believe in solid depth at QB as you draft guys and maybe occasionally get lucky or take a shot at one. Only do this AFTER the system is in place and things are running smooth. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

I'd check to see what the Packers what they want for Jordan Love. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

No

If you have the right coaches, with an elite defense and ST, you do not need a top-5 or top-10 QB to win it all

It lowers your margin of error, but it’s viable to roll with a guy who’s an intelligent, quality starter 

[Jetsfan4life90]

2 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

I'd check to see what the Packers what they want for Jordan Love. 

Legit was just thinking that, lol 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

4 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

I'd check to see what the Packers what they want for Jordan Love. 

They’ve been watching him for 3 years and were still willing to throw 50M per at old man Rodgers 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

8 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

They’ve been watching him for 3 years and were still willing to throw 50M per at old man Rodgers 

Cool. Should come cheap then. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

32 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Cool. Should come cheap then. 

So is contracting Ebola but doesn’t mean I’d want it

[K_O_Brien]

A franchise QB gets us road wins in New England, Minnesota, and maybe Buffalo. 

In Foxboro, our D played as well as it's humanly possible to, and we still lost because the QB had a meltdown.  

In Minnesota, we made excuses for the QB because one receiver dropped one pass.  

In Buffalo, it's because we turned the ball over twice. 

But if you have a franchise QB, turning the ball over twice doesn't need to be fatal in terms of winning the football game. You can overcome a dropped pass, like the one in Minnesota, if you later get another set of downs inside the red zone. 

Without the franchise QB, everything else needs to be perfect, which is neither realistic nor sustainable. 

 

[BurntDice]

I want a top 15 QB. Currently we don’t have that. With the current team they don’t need to be elite, just above average. Something along the lines of Stafford. He’s never been top 5, but hovered around the 10 range. 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

5 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

I want a top 15 QB. Currently we don’t have that. With the current team they don’t need to be elite, just above average. Something along the lines of Stafford. He’s never been top 5, but hovered around the 10 range. 

So what's your plan to get one?  You have $7M of cap room to work with if we let White walk before any cuts.  I'm genuinely interested.  That's kind of the point of the OP.  It's one thing to theorize, but if you are a believer in a top 10 to 15 QB, who is that guy that fits this system and how do we get him?

[Biggs]

If we actually have a great OL and a top running back along with a great D I agree.  That's a lot of pieces to try and beat guys like Mahomes, Allen, Burrow and Herbert who also have teams around them and aren't going anywhere anytime soon. 

 

[FidelioJet]

Yes.

[BurntDice]

14 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

So what's your plan to get one?  You have $7M of cap room to work with if we let White walk before any cuts.  I'm genuinely interested.  That's kind of the point of the OP.  It's one thing to theorize, but if you are a believer in a top 10 to 15 QB, who is that guy that fits this system and how do we get him?

This early in the process it’s impossible to tell. Which QBs will be available in FA after resigning, cuts, and tags? Which QB will be available for a trade? Those are huge questions that we don’t have answers to yet. 

[Warfish]

I want to win a Super Bowl in my remaining lifetime.

I was not alive when we last won one.

I don't care about this pipe dream of "continuous long term 20 years in a row of success" some folks wave around, and you're never getting to "continuous success" with getting some damn actual SUCCESS to start with.

Win.  Then build on what helped to win to win more.  Rinse, repeat.  But it all starts with winning, and winning now.  

 

[Creepy Lurker]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I want to win a Super Bowl in my remaining lifetime.

I was not alive when we last won one.

I don't care about this pipe dream of "continuous long term 20 years in a row of success" some folks wave around, and you're never getting to "continuous success" with getting some damn actual SUCCESS to start with.

Win.  Then build on what helped to win to win more.  Rinse, repeat.  But it all starts with winning, and winning now.  

 

Then roll the dice with a rookie QB every now and then and hopefully you hit knowing that they are in the perfect situation. That’s lightening in a bottle and when you can put all the chips in. 

[jgb]

100 roads to a SB ring, 90 start with a good QB. This doesn’t mean paying FQB money to an average starter (ranked around 16) out of desperation, mind you.

[Sonny Werblin]

1 hour ago, BurntDice said:

I want a top 15 QB. Currently we don’t have that. With the current team they don’t need to be elite, just above average. Something along the lines of Stafford. He’s never been top 5, but hovered around the 10 range. 

This got me thinking about what the 15th best QB in the NFL looks like, so I started making a list ...

In no particular order, IMO these are the top 6

Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Jackson, Hurts, Cousins, Herbert, 

Then I have these 4 . . 

Rogers, Murray, Carr, Brady

Well that's 10. Who are the next 5?

Prescott, Tua, Goff, Lawrence, Jimmy G or does  Geno crack the top 15?

GEEEZZZZZ..... the bottom of the top 15 QB list is not so hot!

 

 

[shawn306]

Great question - My thoughts

We are basically coming out of an ERA in AFC that was dominated by 3 teams. Indy with Manning, Pittsburgh with Big Ben and of course the Pats with Brady.

Those are not Franchise QB's ....

Those are 1st ballot HOF'ers.

Probably in the past 5 to 7 years you have heard it from the media that "You must have a franchise QB in order to win" and teams have pushed QB's to the top of the draft that are young. raw and immature and not ready to be the head of what is really a billion dollar corporation. They are expected to come in and immediately turn a really bad team into a playoff team in basically two years and if there is no progress then out he goes and said team goes and wastes another top 5 pick.

Those picks are so valuable as you learned this year with Sauce, and Garrett Wilson, throw in Breece and Johnson this has the makings of a legendary draft. 

You have to be sure that if you are drafting a QB in the top 5 that he has no flaws and that he will be there the next ten to fifteen years. No leadership issues, no fundamental issues, no "we can coach him up" If I hear "raw talent" or we can coach him up I would not draft him in the top 5. I think teams are finally getting the message since last years draft you didn't see a QB go until the Steelers took Pickett at 20.

I think it all comes down to the talent you surround him with. You need an OL to protect him, you need RB's grind out yards and you need WR's and TE's that can catch and block. 

You need a coaching staff and a FO that will put those pieces in place and put him in the best possible place to succeed and you need some patience while you go through the growing pains.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Just keep drafting well and picking up quality free agents. Then strike hard when a QB opportunity presents itself. 

[peebag]

43 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes.

this.

53 years and counting.

[shawn306]

5 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

This got me thinking about what the 15th best QB in the NFL looks like, I started making a list ...

In no particular order, IMO these are the top 6

Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Jackson, Hurts, Cousins, Herbert, 

Then I have these 4 . . 

Rogers, Murray, Carr, Brady

Well that's 10. Who are the next 5?

Prescott, Tua, Goff, Lawrence, Jimmy G or does  Geno crack the top 15?

GEEEZZZZZ..... the bottom of the top 15 QB list is not so hot!

 

 

Well if you are putting Brady and Rogers in there then I would think you have to include Russell Wilson despite the horrible year and Stafford as well.

All Jimmy G does is win games so he should in there.

Lawrence is a star in making now that he actually has a real NFL Head Coach.

I don't get the hate or disrespect that Dak gets.

Never been a big Murray or Carr guy.

[Dunnie]

2 hours ago, Alka said:

I said it back then and I will say it now, "The Jets should have kept Darnold and traded the pick for a boatload of draft picks."  You can go back in the archives and see where I said it repeatedly.

So, Okay, you don't like Darnold?  No problem, we would have gotten Mike White anyway without the draft picks.  Maybe Darnold was not the answer, but it seemed like the Jets were considering keeping Darnold.  At least that's what they said back then.  I never understood the fascination with Zach, and quite frankly, I don't see Mike White as the answer either.  

Many of us said it.  But the book is not closed on Zach ... yet ... so well see.

[BurntDice]

51 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

This got me thinking about what the 15th best QB in the NFL looks like, so I started making a list ...

In no particular order, IMO these are the top 6

Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Jackson, Hurts, Cousins, Herbert, 

Then I have these 4 . . 

Rogers, Murray, Carr, Brady

Well that's 10. Who are the next 5?

Prescott, Tua, Goff, Lawrence, Jimmy G or does  Geno crack the top 15?

GEEEZZZZZ..... the bottom of the top 15 QB list is not so hot!

 

 

Goff has played pretty good this year as well as Geno. Based on passing TDS it’s in order 

Mahomes 

Burrow

Allen 

Geno

Goff

Hurts

Tua

Rogers

Herbert 

Cousins

Lawrence 

Carr 

Brady

Jackson

Jimmy G

Dak missed 5 games, but he’d be in the mix too. 
 

I haven’t watched any cardinals games, but Murray is #18. 

Below is sorted by QBR. Notable additions this way are Danny Dimes, Brissett, Fields, and Mariota. (White has a 49.1 QBR, Zach is 43.2) 

 

 

[The Crusher]

I hope more and more teams  convince themselves  they don’t need one. So maybe we can luck out and get one finally,