Interesting debate on Dan Patrick Show.... Jets Vs Pats

[HawkeyeJet]

I actually was going to pose this question after the game Monday night but figured it would not go well so close to the game.

As of today, which team has a brighter future outlook?  I think people would automatically default to the Patriots, but watching them Monday, their roster is a long way from competitive.  I think you could argue the Jets have the better young pieces in guys like Becton, Quinnen and Mims.  The Patriots may have the better intermediate talent, but that doesn't necessarily mean great things for the future.

Obviously a tipping point is potentially adding Trevor Lawrence and a slew of other high draft picks.  

Another part of it was they all envision Belichick retiring within the next 5 years.

Is it possible the Jets are set up better for the next 5 years despite potentially going 0-16?  I think it's a reasonable argument.

[joewilly12]

One would think with all the draft picks and money to spend in free agency things could turn around quickly here. We shall see. 

[Beerfish]

Should be zero debate other than the old bellichick is a genius, lol jets always screw it up.  By every other metric the jets should be better off.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Jets should be better off but we still have to find a HC and ya know, not screw up. 

[JustInFudge]

Legit dont know the answer but didnt the Pats have a significant amount of talent opt out this year?  That said, the Patriots are terrible at drafting for a long time now and they no longer have an eraser at QB.  So they're now feeling the impacts of bad drafting and BB's arrogance. 

Hard to ever put the Jets in the driver seat for anything but if you removed the names of the teams and compared the situations and assets to get better, yes, the Jets are in a better position....that said, hitting on HC/QB and everything else is easier said than done but still, it's the Jets.

 

[peebag]

It's the "Same Ole Jets" syndrome that needs to be overcome.

Even in the "good days" of 1998 through 2010, when ever something went wrong, the SOJ vibration would go through the media, fans and organization.

This team needs a dynamic leader to pull it out of the malaise it's currently in and quite frankly, I don't see any candidate out there capable of doing so.

[GreenFish]

Who knows? We were suppose to take control of the division with Darnold as the suppose best QB in the division. That hasn’t turned out too well.

All we can say is that we have a better opportunity to be better. If we bomb the HC pick and QB pick, we’ll be talking about another rebuild in 5yrs.

[Rhg1084]

What do the Pats have going for them exactly? Jets are in prime position to build a contender with a lot of young talent 

[Gastineau Lives]

Jets, Dolphins, Bills

Patriots...dust and YouTube videos of da good yeehs

[rangerous]

Patsies, jets?  The patsies May be down right now but Newton was still able to carve up the jet defense pretty good.  And the patsies also ran effectively when it counted.  They may be down on talent but that’s where playing as a team comes in. The jets should get some serious talent between the draft picks and the cap money but it means nothing if they don’t play as a team.

To answer the question, I think the jets are on the rise. The bellichicken is getting old and they will be turning things over to little josh.  Imagine, the little twerp has be a coordinator for 12 season.

[slimjasi]

On paper, we are easily set up to have the better future. 

In practice, the Jets are the Jets. 

[Matt39]

Are we assuming the Jets pick first?

[jago]

jets need a hc and qb
pats need a qb
mia and buf may have both.

[chirorob]

33 minutes ago, JiF said:

Legit dont know the answer but didnt the Pats have a significant amount of talent opt out this year?  That said, the Patriots are terrible at drafting for a long time now and they no longer have an eraser at QB.  So they're now feeling the impacts of bad drafting and BB's arrogance. 

Hard to ever put the Jets in the driver seat for anything but if you removed the names of the teams and compared the situations and assets to get better, yes, the Jets are in a better position....that said, hitting on HC/QB and everything else is easier said than done but still, it's the Jets.

 

They had the most players opt out.

who is in better shape?   The team with 20 million in dead cap space next year, hasn't been to the playoffs in 10 years, and has no HC next  year.

Or

The team with a HC who has won 6 SB and no dead space next year.

[PS17]

18 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

On paper, we are easily set up to have the better future. 

In practice, the Jets are the Jets. 

^

[14 in Green]

Sorry kids. We're the AFC East cellar dwellers for the foreseeable future. 

Miami has two #1s again this year. Tua is every bit as talented as Lawrence/Fields. They have a good, young HC and are already contending for the playoffs.

Buffalo has a QB so good he shut up all the "never can learn accuracy, just a RB" guys already. They have a really good HC/GM, plenty of talent on their roster. They should be a force in the league for years.

The Patriots have Belichek. We won't be better than them until they don't. It's that simple.

The Jets? Douglas has been here for 18 months and we are 0-9 right now, and next year and probably in 2022 we will field a team with expansion level talent. If you want to imagine this team finally being able to find, develop and keep their young talent, you're free to do so. Let me know when it happens.

[Hael]

The Pats have one of the best young OL in football.  Thuney and Mason are top5 guards, Wynn is a top ten T, and their rookie T Onwenu is ranked higher than Becton (pff has him as the best tackle in the game).

Jackson and Jones and Gilmore are a bit hurt this year, but they’re amongst the best cbs in football.  Uche and Winovich are promising young ends for them.

They have a bunch of young developing skill position players as well, but I don’t think their ceilings are as high as eg Mims.

As we’ve seen in this league, none of that matters if your qb sucks..  The Pats are now in qb purgatory.

[HawkeyeJet]

23 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Are we assuming the Jets pick first?

Yes.  When they were discussing on the show, the assumption was Jets get #1 pick and Lawrence.

[UntouchableCrew]

The trendy thing to do is sh*t on BB right now but I'm not counting him out at all. They'll draft a QB and bounce back. 

I think the AFCE will be competitive for the next several years.

[chirorob]

10 minutes ago, Hael said:

The Pats have one of the best young OL in football.  Thuney and Mason are top5 guards, Wynn is a top ten T, and their rookie T Onwenu is ranked higher than Becton (pff has him as the best tackle in the game).

Jackson and Jones and Gilmore are a bit hurt this year, but they’re amongst the best cbs in football.  Uche and Winovich are promising young ends for them.

They have a bunch of young developing skill position players as well, but I don’t think their ceilings are as high as eg Mims.

As we’ve seen in this league, none of that matters if your qb sucks..  The Pats are now in qb purgatory.

Winovich pisses me off so much.

He was such and obvious pic, and Macc passed on him for a guy cut before his rookie year.   He's like the modern day Boar Hunter.

[Hael]

Yea I mean they’re two goal line plays away from being 5-3 despite losing a league high amount of COVID opt outs, having cap problems from last seasons all in, and having a good amount of injuries as well, not to mention their qbs COVID stint. 

[Gangrene]

What the Monday night game is missing in terms of a significant part of the Patriots v. The Jets future, is the Covid opt outs.

The one player of significance the Jets are missing due to Covid is CJ Mosley.

The significant players Patriots are missing Brandon Bolden, Marcus Cannon, Patrick Chung, Dont'a Hightower, Marqise Lee. None of these players are free agents in 2021 (with Covid opt out clause neither are they free agents in 2022)  and with the pats improved cap situation for 2021, there is a good chance  they will be on the roster. 

On the plus side for the Jets, apart from Lee none of the five Patriot players are that young, they won't be much of a difference maker for long.

[JetPotato]

Has anyone really watched the Pats this year? Have you noticed that since Brady left, they now actually get called for penalties mostly appropriately? It's clear the league was propping up Tom, not Bill. That appears to be over.

That said, until proven otherwise, the Pats have a huge advantage on the sidelines. BTW, they will have enormous cap space next year as well. 

If we get Lawrence or Fields and they don't draft a QB early, we have an edge there.

Jury is out.

[oatmeal]

31 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

Has anyone really watched the Pats this year? Have you noticed that since Brady left, they now actually get called for penalties mostly appropriately? It's clear the league was propping up Tom, not Bill. That appears to be over.

That said, until proven otherwise, the Pats have a huge advantage on the sidelines. BTW, they will have enormous cap space next year as well. 

If we get Lawrence or Fields and they don't draft a QB early, we have an edge there.

Jury is out.

I noticed that too, truthfully the league it self seems very wwe ish, in that game against the pats not only did the jets literally throw the game the refs helped. 
 

but Pats definitely havent been getting those same calls constantly after Brady. Good call 

[JetPotato]

3 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

I noticed that too, truthfully the league it self seems very wwe ish, in that game against the pats not only did the jets literally throw the game the refs helped. 
 

but Pats definitely havent been getting those same calls constantly after Brady. Good call 

The difference is noticeable, especially on 3rd downs. They would constantly get benefit of calls/non-calls in key situations. That seems far less pronounced this year. Offensive holding and defensive pass interference seem like they are now things that they CAN be called on.

[jeremy2020]

3 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

As of today, which team has a brighter future outlook?  I think people would automatically default to the Patriots, but watching them Monday, their roster is a long way from competitive. 

Get back to me when half their defense isn't sitting at home. 

[Jetster]

2 hours ago, Hael said:

Yea I mean they’re two goal line plays away from being 5-3 despite losing a league high amount of COVID opt outs, having cap problems from last seasons all in, and having a good amount of injuries as well, not to mention their qbs COVID stint. 

Oh stop with the Opt outs. 2 guys were important Chung (who is old & beat up) & Hightower. CJ Mosely was a bigger opt out for us!

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

3 hours ago, chirorob said:

They had the most players opt out.

who is in better shape?   The team with 20 million in dead cap space next year, hasn't been to the playoffs in 10 years, and has no HC next  year.

Or

The team with a HC who has won 6 SB and no dead space next year.

Sorry, but the dead cap space is irrelevant when the Jets have $81 million in actual cap space.  Take a look at the Pats 2020 draft. It is a complete wasteland. That is how franchises start to die.  Ask a Jets fan.  

[jetophile]

58 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

The difference is noticeable, especially on 3rd downs. They would constantly get benefit of calls/non-calls in key situations. That seems far less pronounced this year. Offensive holding and defensive pass interference seem like they are now things that they CAN be called on.

Rigggggght, because what's the missing Cheat, I mean, piece there now? BTW, how are the calls going in Tampa? Serious question. I actually haven't seen any Bucs games this year. My guess is:

[HawkeyeJet]

3 hours ago, Gangrene said:

What the Monday night game is missing in terms of a significant part of the Patriots v. The Jets future, is the Covid opt outs.

The one player of significance the Jets are missing due to Covid is CJ Mosley.

The significant players Patriots are missing Brandon Bolden, Marcus Cannon, Patrick Chung, Dont'a Hightower, Marqise Lee. None of these players are free agents in 2021 (with Covid opt out clause neither are they free agents in 2022)  and with the pats improved cap situation for 2021, there is a good chance  they will be on the roster. 

On the plus side for the Jets, apart from Lee none of the five Patriot players are that young, they won't be much of a difference maker for long.

Marcus Cannon will be 33 next season.  Patrick Chung 34.  Donta Hightower 31.  Brandon Holden is a special teams player(albeit a good one).  Marqise Lee is average at best when healthy, which he rarely is.

None of those guys are future building blocks for the Patriots.  

 

[Losmeister]

4 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Patriots have Belichek

whats his record w/o tb12?

51-65

[Gangrene]

1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Marcus Cannon will be 33 next season.  Patrick Chung 34.  Donta Hightower 31.  Brandon Holden is a special teams player(albeit a good one).  Marqise Lee is average at best when healthy, which he rarely is.

None of those guys are future building blocks for the Patriots.  

 

I address age specifically in my post, that apart from Marqise Lee none of these guys are young and will be around that long. Their presence will only be a difference maker next year.

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

6 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I actually was going to pose this question after the game Monday night but figured it would not go well so close to the game.

As of today, which team has a brighter future outlook?  I think people would automatically default to the Patriots, but watching them Monday, their roster is a long way from competitive.  I think you could argue the Jets have the better young pieces in guys like Becton, Quinnen and Mims.  The Patriots may have the better intermediate talent, but that doesn't necessarily mean great things for the future.

Obviously a tipping point is potentially adding Trevor Lawrence and a slew of other high draft picks.  

Another part of it was they all envision Belichick retiring within the next 5 years.

Is it possible the Jets are set up better for the next 5 years despite potentially going 0-16?  I think it's a reasonable argument.

Who's going to beat Kansas City anyway ?

[NYJ1]

There's way too little an amount of actual talent on this team for anyone to somehow think their future is brighter. Not to mention, aside from 2020, the Jets as an organization have been flat out garbage when it comes to drafting. One decent draft certainly does not change their future outlook. It does not make it brighter. The real reaction is, "It's about time you f*cking boobs". The Jets do NOT have a brighter future until they PROVE it. They have not earned any "benefit of the doubt" moments or complimentary posts.

[Gibby]

The way  Miami and Buffalo have improved- along with our capital and a new coaching staff on the way. I could definitely see a few last place finishes in the Pats future. Though I still think the Jets probably finish last again next year. But yeah- it’s coming. Can NOT wait to hear all the pissing and moaning from that fan base either.