MIKE WHITE

[Augustiniak]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

There is no bigger Mike White fan than me, and what you’re saying is true. My fear is that he’s gotta be Superman to hold onto the job, so every miss and mistake is magnified. I just want him to show he has the ability to clean those things up by the end of the year so we don’t even have to have the conversation about the array of scrubs free agent QBs out there or, even worse, burning another year hoping Zach Wilson learns how to play football.

He clearly doesn’t have to be Superman, and his mistakes are magnified most here on this message board.  

The jets were losing 20-3 on the road to a real good team and should have won.  They had a ton of offense and only lost b/c they sucked inside the minny 10 yard line.  But think about how many times they got to the minny 10.  That’s the moral victory here, the offense is racking up yards.

mike white is not a superstar nor is he likely to become burrow or mahomes.  But what he does is give the jets a chance in every game, and seems more likely than not to beat the mediocre and bad teams.  Is having rich Gannon for a few years so bad, is this so bad to watch?  Wilson has to be Superman to get the job back, that’s the reality here.

[T0mShane]

 

[Larz]

7 minutes ago, football guy said:

It’s a matter of trusting your eyes and the information at hand without focusing on stats. Try to forget the result and focus on the process while charting every throw in his career… if you do that, you’ll know who he is as the Jets do. 4 games vs. 30 won’t change it. If anything, the more games he plays will teach teams how to adjust, and I’m not sure White is capable of adjusting very much. People can go on and on about the narratives that don’t matter in the big picture, like his teammates loving him etc., but it doesn’t change his limitations/ceiling. I think at his very very best he’s possibly prime Matt Schaub with less arm talent. More likely Nick Foles/Case Keenum. That’s plenty enough in the present and could even result in temporary statistical greatness, but it’s not sustainable long-term.

I agree with everything you have said tonight, what you’re up against is a narrative here that Zach is a spoiled rich kid with no talent that can’t play at all and Mike white is a gritty determined leader with a heart of gold that kisses puppies and saves old ladies.  
 

I’m curious if you think so far Zach’s struggles are more a failure to evaluate a draft prospect or more developing a draft prospect?  It’s probably both to an extent but looking back I still can’t believe that the plan was to match him with a first time play caller as young as lafleur.  Today of course coach Knapps tragic passing was highlighted but as you mentioned the plan to replace him wasn’t exactly stellar. 
 

 

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

He clearly doesn’t have to be Superman, and his mistakes are magnified most here on this message board.  

The jets were losing 20-3 on the road to a real good team and should have won.  They had a ton of offense and only lost b/c they sucked inside the minny 10 yard line.  But think about how many times they got to the minny 10.  That’s the moral victory here, the offense is racking up yards.

mike white is not a superstar nor is he likely to become burrow or mahomes.  But what he does is give the jets a chance in every game, and seems more likely than not to beat the mediocre and bad teams.  Is having rich Gannon for a few years so bad, is this so bad to watch?  Wilson has to be Superman to get the job back, that’s the reality here.

I think he has to be Superman to get a crack at the job next year. He is a free agent on a team that has the second overall pick waiting in the wings. If White puts up a bunch of yards in losing efforts, the window he has to establish himself as a candidate for QB of the Future is going to close on him. 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Larz said:

Zach is a spoiled rich kid with no talent that can’t play at all and Mike white is a gritty determined leader with a heart of gold that kisses puppies and saves old ladies.  

These are facts, Larz

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

What gaps are you seeing? Honest question.

I think Mike White’s limitation is that he is not able to create off script. Still TBD as I need to see him more.

Within the design of the play, he can attack all parts of the field.

I’m thinking Cousins as his theoretical upside. But things should become clearer over the next few weeks. 

Really, all he’s missing it some arm strength. 

[Barton]

43 minutes ago, football guy said:

if Zach Wilson can learn how to play like Mike White he would be a top 5 QB in the NFL… 

Bro, Wilson cant even complete passes under 5 yards with proper timing and accuracy. He's awful.

[Biggs]

I like MW.  He’s looked very good.  I still think he might be more Matt Cassel than Kurt Warner.   TBD….  

[T0mShane]

9 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

Football Guy has taken a total 180. I am sensing an unfortunate narrative here. Respect you TS but come on with the JB comparisons. Don’t trust a ******* thing when it comes to the Jets and their agenda. 

What? I’m a huge Mike White guy. He has to get better, quickly, to remain the starter. 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

53 minutes ago, football guy said:

Personally I would try to trade for Aaron Rodgers and hold onto Zach. Treat ZW the way SF treated Steve Young when he was Montana’s backup, hope Rodgers wins us a couple Super Bowls while allowing yourself the time and patience to develop Zach into the elite QB he’s capable of being 

He makes 40 million and it would gut the team.  How is that even remotely realistic?  

[Maynard13]

35 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Ehhhhhh I think it’s more the receivers need more time with White, hopefully. The Vikings were bodying the Jets receivers and some—particuarly Corey Davis and Tyler Conklin—didn’t respond to it. Maybe they get it together in the next few weeks.

so many drops todat from WR's. If they catch the damn ball, we'd be celebrating the win!  Still its looking good.

[Hex]

3 minutes ago, Barton said:

Bro, Wilson cant even complete passes under 5 yards with proper timing and accuracy. He's awful.

Hence the 'if' part

[FTL Jet Fan]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

What? I’m a huge Mike White guy. He has to get better, quickly, to remain the starter. 

He played better than Wilson,  so that is all I have to hang my hat on at this time. He was fine for his second start of the season. 

[Barton]

1 minute ago, Hex said:

Hence the 'if' part

It's not going to happen with Zach. The guy runs backwards as soon as he thinks pressure is coming. 

[Hex]

1 minute ago, Barton said:

It's not going to happen with Zach. The guy runs backwards as soon as he thinks pressure is coming. 

He didn't in the Bills game. He probably never takes another snap for the Jets but he's shown he can play without that issue.

[Barton]

Mike White has plenty of talent. He's making throws of various velocity game after game. His dump off throws are perfect. He's throwing solid fastballs under 12 yards and he's had excellent passes downfield, with anticipation, between defenders, for 25 yard games. WTF more do you want??

What the heck are people watching? Just because he doesnt run around like all these trendy QBs and flick the ball 35 yards on a rope doesnt mean he cant be a great QB. 

[k-met57]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

the jets were 3-16 on third down, and 1-6 in the red zone, MW threw 57 times for a 6.5 yard per attempt which ranks bottom of the league. this was all against a vikings team that is dead last in passing yards allowed this year.

MW looks like a real NFL QB, just not a very good one...but i suppose the bar is very low now a days.

[Warfish]

33 minutes ago, football guy said:

If “Zach is dreamy” means realist then yes.

It seems to mean realist to you, that's quite clear.

33 minutes ago, football guy said:

If you took Mike’s junk out of your mouth for a second you would realize that what I root for is a sustainable winner.

This is one of the excuses many "Zach Only" fans use, because clearly only the consistently worst QB in the NFL could bring us sustainable winning, right?

You know, when be starts "playing like Mike White" as you say.

Zach will almost assuredly never be a long term successful winner in the NFL on his own skill.  And it has nothing to do with Mike White's junk.

33 minutes ago, football guy said:

We have the right coaching staff and GM to achieve that, but at the end of the day HCs and GMs are fired if they cannot find and develop talented QBs. It’s an unfair reality.

I tend to agree on the GM and HC so far.  But it's entirely fair.  Jobs are about success in those jobs.

Success in the NFL is winning.  If you lose, you get fired.  If you suck, you get cut.  It's entirely fair.  

What is not fair is opportunity.  Zach has already been given more rope than most ever get.  More than his play has earned.  

33 minutes ago, football guy said:

We only have one QB on our roster talented enough to develop into a top 15-type player that can keep the band together long-term.

Pure fantasy,  Zach Wilson is on a Russell Wilson/Josh Rosen track so far.  

33 minutes ago, football guy said:

You want to go the smoke and mirrors route and convince yourself that a 27-year old backup caliber player is your long-term option then have at it.

He's 100x better than Zach today, so White should play today.  I'm not planning "long term" at current, that's for the off season.

If Zach can't even outplay White, he's certainly not going to bring us long term winning or top-15 quality play.

33 minutes ago, football guy said:

It would end the same way it did for Ryan Fitzpatrick and the Bills. 

As opposed to ending like Josh Rosen and the Cardinals?

Again, I'm not arguing for White as #1 next year (yet).  He'd have to earn it.  And he'd have to earn it with someone else on the roster who doesn't suck. As minimum, a Minshew type player. 

Zach?  He gets one more year where he can compete in camp, to see if he's capable of fixing the many flaws in his game, then he's cut loose (because he won't IMO) before 2024, like Sam was before him.

[k-met57]

Just now, Barton said:

Mike White has plenty of talent. He's making throws of various velocity game after game. His dump off throws are perfect. He's throwing solid fastballs under 12 yards and he's had excellent passes downfield, with anticipation, between defenders, for 25 yard games. WTF more do you want??

What the heck are people watching? Just because he doesnt run around like all these trendy QBs and flick the ball 35 yards on a rope doesnt mean he cant be a great QB. 

3-16 on third downs, 1-6 inside red zone.....can he get some of that blame or nah?

[FidelioJet]

[JustInFudge]

15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

The Zach freaks wont touch this

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This is dumb and has no context like if you watched the game.  You're disgusting and your agenda is obnoxious.  Are you going to root for Zach's next team? 

[Prodigal Syndicate]

48 minutes ago, football guy said:

If “Zach is dreamy” means realist then yes. If you took Mike’s junk out of your mouth for a second you would realize that what I root for is a sustainable winner. We have the right coaching staff and GM to achieve that, but at the end of the day HCs and GMs are fired if they cannot find and develop talented QBs. It’s an unfair reality. 

We only have one QB on our roster talented enough to develop into a top 15-type player that can keep the band together long-term. You want to go the smoke and mirrors route and convince yourself that a 27-year old backup caliber player is your long-term option then have at it. It would end the same way it did for Ryan Fitzpatrick and the Bills. 

Wilson does not have the talent nor the brains to be a top 15 QB in this league.

[football guy]

15 minutes ago, hawk said:

You are right.  Trusting your eyes to see ball placement, poise in the pocket, and above else, he has shown improved accuracy down the field.  No player gets better without repetition, and chemistry.  Is he a dink and dunk passer, thus far, yes, however, he is showing some growth in throwing guys open and accuracy in the intermediate range also.  

The narrative that the team loves him is added bonus, and does add value to quarterback.  I don't care who you are, if you have a kindred relationship with someone, you push just a little harder.  Maybe its is laying out for a pass, or throwing a block, or maybe it is going up high over the middle to grab a ball versus alligator arms, who knows what it means, but it isn't cut and dry to just being a professional.  There is a human element to each player, and those that disregard that human element are the ones that just don't cut it.  

 

By no means do I think he is unable to improve. Players are always improving. My point is that he is limited.  Put it this way: if someone told me Mike White were to have a 4500 yard, 40 TD season I wouldn’t be shocked. I also wouldn’t be shocked if he were benched the following year. He can only go as far as the offense and scheme allow him to, and if it breaks down even a little bit so will he. I don’t root for that I just know and accept it… if he could be the second coming of Tom Brady by all means I would run with that. I just know he’s not. You cannot teach talent and upside… which is why l still think the best hope for a sustainable winner in New York is by developing Zach into a good QB OR finding a guy in the draft. I don’t think the latter is impossible either… a guy like Hendon Hooker will probably fall due to injury and age, but I think he has the kind of ability to be a star QB in the right system.

Re: teammates loving him. These narratives exist for every team’s backup QBs for those paying attention. It’s the most humble position on the roster. Taylor Heinicke is a perfect example of it… that doesn’t make him a long-term answer to their QB position. Nor did it make Ryan Fitzpatrick the answer for the 18 teams he was on. 

[RevisIsland610]

54 minutes ago, football guy said:

if Zach Wilson can learn how to play like Mike White he would be a top 5 QB in the NFL… 

Yeah ok. Too bad he's the worst starting QB in the league the last 2 years. He will never throw another pass for the Jets unless their is an injury. 

[FidelioJet]

Mike White Red Zone today

6-17, 24 yards, 1 int...

[Vader]

10 minutes ago, Larz said:

I agree with everything you have said tonight, what you’re up against is a narrative here that Zach is a spoiled rich kid with no talent that can’t play at all and Mike white is a gritty determined leader with a heart of gold that kisses puppies and saves old ladies.  
 

I’m curious if you think so far Zach’s struggles are more a failure to evaluate a draft prospect or more developing a draft prospect?  It’s probably both to an extent but looking back I still can’t believe that the plan was to match him with a first time play caller as young as lafleur.  Today of course coach Knapps tragic passing was highlighted but as you mentioned the plan to replace him wasn’t exactly stellar. 
 

 

The narrative is give ZW two passes from ten yards to hit the side of a barn and he'll skip the first and sail the second.

Plus no leadership skills. The idea that "arm-talent" here is relevant vis a vis Mike White or as a valid criticism of the QB situation is pretty myopic and risky draft forumism ?

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, JiFields said:

This is dumb and has no context like if you watched the game.  You're disgusting and your agenda is obnoxious.  Are you going to root for Zach's next team? 

I'm sorry.  I forgot.  Mike White can do no wrong.  

When it comes to Mike White - only the good stats matter.  

[Asymmetrical]

It's a tough spot. Even if White kills it for the rest of the season I wouldn't be totally confident in slotting him in as the starter going forward. The floor is pretty clearly Teddy Bridgewater type back up. Ceiling is still tbd.

[RevisIsland610]

6 minutes ago, Barton said:

Mike White has plenty of talent. He's making throws of various velocity game after game. His dump off throws are perfect. He's throwing solid fastballs under 12 yards and he's had excellent passes downfield, with anticipation, between defenders, for 25 yard games. WTF more do you want??

What the heck are people watching? Just because he doesnt run around like all these trendy QBs and flick the ball 35 yards on a rope doesnt mean he cant be a great QB. 

Have no clue what they are watching. Certainly not the ones I am. 

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm sorry.  I forgot.  Mike White can do no wrong.  

When it comes to Mike White - only the good stats matter.  

Context matters.  Nobody said Mike White was perfect but you've denied having a clear pro Zach agenda and clearly like him more than the team he plays for.

[Grandy]

34 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Not back pedaling. We’re making sure he becomes Joe Burrow.

I think people underestimate the mobility and athleticism of Burrow. 

[RevisIsland610]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Mike White Red Zone today

6-17, 24 yards, 1 int...

That is basically Wilson's numbers for an entire game for 2 years now. 

[hawk]

7 minutes ago, football guy said:

By no means do I think he is unable to improve. Players are always improving. My point is that he is limited.  Put it this way: if someone told me Mike White were to have a 4500 yard, 40 TD season I wouldn’t be shocked. I also wouldn’t be shocked if he were benched the following year. He can only go as far as the offense and scheme allow him to, and if it breaks down even a little bit so will he. I don’t root for that I just know and accept it… if he could be the second coming of Tom Brady by all means I would run with that. I just know he’s not. You cannot teach talent and upside… which is why l still think the best hope for a sustainable winner in New York is by developing Zach into a good QB OR finding a guy in the draft. I don’t think the latter is impossible either… a guy like Hendon Hooker will probably fall due to injury and age, but I think he has the kind of ability to be a star QB in the right system.

Re: teammates loving him. These narratives exist for every team’s backup QBs for those paying attention. It’s the most humble position on the roster. Taylor Heinicke is a perfect example of it… that doesn’t make him a long-term answer to their QB position. Nor did it make Ryan Fitzpatrick the answer for the 18 teams he was on. 

So in one breath, you are saying Mike White is a system guy and that isn't sustainable, and in the next, Hooker can be a system star?  You see the irony right?  If the scheme takes him to 4,500 and 40 td's in the NFL, he is a sustainable QB in the NFL.  Scheme can only take you so far as well, and are all based on the same principles for the most part.  

Edit:  If we are talking about a QB playing in the System, and having a skill set in the NFL, why can't Wilson play in the system, or throw a screen pass?  Isnt that a talent needed in the NFL?

Are you really trying to say that the narrative is back up QB for the players, versus, an utter distain for QB1 a couple weeks ago?   Mike White has revived this offensive unit, and it isn't just because he is the back up QB.  

[JustInFudge]

6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Mike White Red Zone today

6-17, 24 yards, 1 int...

You're literally doing a victory lap, in a Jets loss.  You're a troll at this point, you realize that, right?