Eli? It's Sanchez The Scapegoat You Should Be Outraged About You Stupid Fools

[TuscanyTile2]

10 hours ago, johnnyjet said:

Be realistic, still in his prime, he’s lost his desire at this point, his confidence is shot and now he’s a check collector. The Sanchez shipped sailed.  I blame tanny and Rex. 

If you're saying that Sanchez didn't have the mental toughness to play in NY (and that's the reason for his failure) then fine.  But that's part of the job requirement.  So if Sanchez is soft mentally then I don't get why you're defending him.  There's a reason very few QBs make it in the NFL.  

Eli had like 3 straight losing seasons (IIRC) when he started for the Giants.  He threw a lot of INTs (many off his back foot).  Fans were not pleased with him.  Yet Eli persevered and won 2 SBs because he's not only talented but mentally tough.

[Sperm Edwards]

25 minutes ago, rangerous said:

as i recall, sanchez was lighting it up in the preseason and was ready to lead the team until he got injured.  a lot has been said about his subsequent teams and play.  i agree he didn't seem to have the fire it takes, especially in ny, but he did have the tools.  it could be the shoulder injury was worse than advertised and he just didn't come back as strong as he should have.

lolwut?

[Jetsfan80]

Most teams only roster 2 QB's (with maybe a practice squad stash).  Sanchez is a 3rd string QB.  He's like, 2 minutes from having the CFL be his only option. 

[RevisIsland610]

13 hours ago, SAR I said:

Resumes don't mean anything.

Mark Sanchez 2012 was a better quarterback than Eli Manning 2017.  Mark Sanchez 2012 had more promise than Eli Manning 2017.

It's tragic what Jets fans allowed to happen.  Strike that; what Jets fans made happen.

SAR I

Yes because the Giants don't have any injuries to any wide receivers and Manning just has so many weapons at his disposal. Plus he's playing behind one of the best offensive lines in football, cough. Sanchez proved the jets so wrong with all the success he has had since. Let me wire you some money so you can buy a clue. 

[ZachEY]

45 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

all Mark's issues were shared by Eli.  One organization kept adding talent around their QB and the other kept taking talent away after early success.  I think Mark could have had the solid career Eli had if we did a better job of surrounding him w/ talent.  We did a nice job the first 2 years then it stopped but at least in 2011 we tried.  after that we stopped trying.

Eli improved.  Mark never did.

The league has spoken, and he's a 3rd string QB.  Being ruined or damaged goods is just an excuse.  Mark got additional shots, he failed to capitalize.  Is Eli Manning overrated?  Perhaps.  Is Mark Sanchez a bottom tier QB?  Unquestionably.  Traffic in hypotheticals elsewhere.

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Eli improved.  Mark never did.

The league has spoken, and he's a 3rd string QB.  Being ruined or damaged goods is just an excuse.  Mark got additional shots, he failed to capitalize.  Is Eli Manning overrated?  Perhaps.  Is Mark Sanchez a bottom tier QB?  Unquestionably.  Traffic in hypotheticals elsewhere.

Eli's talent around him improved, Mark's never did.  Mark had peak talent in year 2 and he was very good that year.  Eli's team kept adding players.  He had one of the games biggest weapons his first 3 years in Tiki, they added Plax, he had Toomer(a better version of Cotchery), Shockey then Nicks, Cruz, Manningham, then Odell,...

if we kept adding talent around Mark he could have had a solid career like Eli and if NYG took talent away from Eli he would have had Mark's career.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

Eli's talent around him improved, Mark's never did.  Mark had peak talent in year 2 and he was very good that year.  Eli's team kept adding players.  He had one of the games biggest weapons his first 3 years in Tiki, they added Plax, he had Toomer(a better version of Cotchery), Shockey then Nicks, Cruz, Manningham, then Odell,...

if we kept adding talent around Mark he could have had a solid career like Eli and if NYG took talent away from Eli he would have had Mark's career.

We've been through this.  He was "very good" only by your exceptionally biased and unbalanced manipulation of reality.  By any objective standard, he was a bottom third of the league QB.  I'm not re-litigating this with you because there's no point in arguing with someone for whom facts are an inconvenience to be dismissed at will.

[nyjunc]

11 minutes ago, gEYno said:

We've been through this.  He was "very good" only by your exceptionally biased and unbalanced manipulation of reality.  By any objective standard, he was a bottom third of the league QB.  I'm not re-litigating this with you because there's no point in arguing with someone for whom facts are an inconvenience to be dismissed at will.

Thanks for your input but there were not 10 better QBs in 2010 than Mark Sanchez.  You'll pull up meaningless #s and say "see!" but out of context #s are meaningless.  He was vital to us winning 11 games and getting back to another title game.  He would lead numerous late game comebacks to save our overrated D.

[Philc1]

Sanchez is lucky he’s even in the nfl how is anyone debating this guy?

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

Thanks for your input but there were not 10 better QBs in 2010 than Mark Sanchez.  You'll pull up meaningless #s and say "see!" but out of context #s are meaningless.  He was vital to us winning 11 games and getting back to another title game.  He would lead numerous late game comebacks to save our overrated D.

Every year a team goes 10-6 or better with a mediocre qb.  This year it’s in Minnesota.  In 2010 and 2006 it was the jets

 

 

Rex Grossman Rule

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Every year a team goes 10-6 or better with a mediocre qb.  This year it’s in Minnesota.  In 2010 and 2006 it was the jets

 

 

Rex Grossman Rule

2009 maybe but not 2010.  How often do teams win 2 playoff games 2 straight season all on the road w/ bad/mediocre QBs? it doesn't happen.  you can have a fluke run but back to back?  Mark was very good in both playoff runs though he was mediocre most of the 2009 reg season.

[Kleckineau]

SANCHEZ IS A FVCKING BUM OF A QB WHO IS STUCK BEHIND A ROOKIE AND ANOTHER BUM IN CHICAGO

HE WAS NEVER ANY GOOD EVEN WITH HIS RED / GREEN WRIST BAND CHEAT SHEET AND NEVER WILL BE ANY GOOD.

HE IS LUCKY TO BE DRAWING A PAYCHECK.

THE ONLY THING HE IS GOOD AT IS EATING FVCKING HOT DOGS, GETTING FLEECED IN BAD REAL ESTATE DEALS, WIPING SNOT ON TEAM MATES, HELPING SPANISH PEOPLE TO LIKE FOOTBALL AND ONCE UPON A TIME GETTING A SNIFF OF KATE UPTON FROM ABOUT 9 FEET AWAY.

DID I MENTION HE STINKS?

[ChuckkieB]

14 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Sanchez is still in his prime and is behind Mike Glennon and Mitch Trubisky. You want to say Sanchez got screwed a bit by Rex? OK. But you're going to have to explain why he's barely in the league at this point. Everyone in this league controls their own destiny. We put way too much stock into perceived circumstances. Guys find a way to perform if they have the goods. 

Spot on! Sanchez and all his unreached potential because of the big bad Jets is now holding a clipboard with one foot out of the door of the league.  I guess all of the other teams continue to be wrong about him too.  Folks gotta let that Sanchez love go already. He is what he is - a third string QB. 

 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

15 hours ago, SAR I said:

Resumes don't mean anything.

Mark Sanchez 2012 was a better quarterback than Eli Manning 2017.  Mark Sanchez 2012 had more promise than Eli Manning 2017.

It's tragic what Jets fans allowed to happen.  Strike that; what Jets fans made happen.

SAR I

There are a whole lot of things that can be laid on the fans but Sanchez trutherism isn't one of them. I can count on one hand the number of people who weren't huffing his farts until it was too late. It's just that most of them aren't quite so ridiculous as to still be fighting this war circa too late plus seven years. Your old schtick was way better than this schtick and your old schtick was ******* terrible.

[rangerous]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

lolwut?

i agree it's preseason and doesn't matter but it still doesn't detract from the fact that he was doing very well until he was injured in the giaints game.  there was no way geno was going to start in 2013.

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I have always said the only difference btw 2007/2011 NYG and 2009/2010 NYJ was the D/STs.  Both QBs were good but all those runs were keyed by D and STs, their D played great in title games and ours did not.  Both QBs could make a million mistakes but could also turn it on late in games.  They were similar, the biggest difference is NYG kept adding talent for Eli while we took it away and expected Mark to get better.

Perfectly stated. 

SAR I

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

If you're saying that Sanchez didn't have the mental toughness to play in NY (and that's the reason for his failure) then fine.  But that's part of the job requirement.  So if Sanchez is soft mentally then I don't get why you're defending him.  There's a reason very few QBs make it in the NFL.  

Eli had like 3 straight losing seasons (IIRC) when he started for the Giants.  He threw a lot of INTs (many off his back foot).  Fans were not pleased with him.  Yet Eli persevered and won 2 SBs because he's not only talented but mentally tough.

Mental toughness was one of Mark’s strengths before Sporano and the destruction of our offense.

He led 5 miracle fourth quarter comebacks in 2010, he won 4 road playoff games, and he was arguably the best Jet on the field in consecutive AFC Championship Games.  Sanchez elevated his game under the brightest lights and the biggest pressure.  

Mark wasn’t undone by anything other than Rex Ryan and his agenda to invest all the free agent money and all the high draft picks on the defense.  That started the slide, and hiring Sporano sealed his fate  

SAR I

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

Thanks for your input but there were not 10 better QBs in 2010 than Mark Sanchez.  You'll pull up meaningless #s and say "see!" but out of context #s are meaningless.  He was vital to us winning 11 games and getting back to another title game.  He would lead numerous late game comebacks to save our overrated D.

The numbers that are "meaningless" are only so because you say they are.  And that only goes for standard metrics.  The advanced stats, which look quite poorly on Sacnhez, actually control for dozens of things to make them more fair, and you dismiss those for your own biased assessment which you don't actually apply to all QBs, but only to Sanchez, that puts Sanchez where you want him to be.  So, again, there's no point in arguing with someone who dismisses objective contradictory data.

He did lead a lot of comebacks this year.  In fact, Mark Sanchez unquestionably played some of his best football in the 4th.  That having been said, many of those comebacks happened in large part because he failed to show up for the 1st three quarters.  Ultimately in your analysis, you expect the defense to be essentially perfect for four quarters, and blame them when they are not, and then you ignore that Sanchez was ineffective for 3 quarters, and celebrate him when he plays adequately for one.  Maybe you ought to celebrate a defense that kept a team with no offense for 3 quarters still in the game in the 4th?  But, that doesn't fit your narrative.

[ZachEY]

12 hours ago, SAR I said:

Perfectly stated.

Tony Sparano
Tim Tebow
Clyde Gates
Chaz Schillens
Stephen Hill
Shonn Greene

Blame the quarterback.

SAR I

Once again... Why is Tim Tebow relevant?

[HighPitch]

12 hours ago, SAR I said:

Won't explain because the premise is flawed.

Sanchez wasn't given a starter's role after his stint with the Jets.  Merely a backup, getting limited reps, forced into duty unprepared, bouncing from team to team.  No one invested in Mark Sanchez after 2013.  Nor did the Jets in 2011 or 2012.  That's the real crime here.

SAR I

My premis is flawed? Lol look at yours:

Youre saying that a guy who was given a slew of starting roles didnt get a fair shot. Meanwhile hes busted everywhere else he played. 

Revisit this

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, ChuckkieB said:

Spot on! Sanchez and all his unreached potential because of the big bad Jets is now holding a clipboard with one foot out of the door of the league.  I guess all of the other teams continue to be wrong about him too.  Folks gotta let that Sanchez love go already. He is what he is - a third string QB. 

 

Do you not read the news?  Do you not see the types of football coaches and baseball managers being hired today?  The importance of the mental side of sports, relating to players, supporting players, locker room culture, these things matter. 

Just as you would be if you went from being the star of your company to being an afterthought, it’s a terrible blow. Ego matters. Confidence matters.  After back to back AFC Championships we offered Mark’s job to Peyton Manning and Tim Tebow.

At 23 years of age he just had the greatest run in team history going 16-4 with a 4-2 playoff record. What more could he have done?  

Mark Sanchez was betrayed and completely mind-fk’ed. It matters. It changed him. It would change you too. 

SAR I

[ChuckkieB]

Do you not read the news?  Do you not see the types of football coaches and baseball managers being hired today?  The importance of the mental side of sports, relating to players, supporting players, locker room culture, these things matter. 
Just as you would be if you went from being the star of your company to being an afterthought, it’s a terrible blow. Ego matters. Confidence matters.  After back to back AFC Championships we offered Mark’s job to Peyton Manning and Tim Tebow.
At 23 years of age he just had the greatest run in team history going 16-4 with a 4-2 playoff record. What more could he have done?  
Mark Sanchez was betrayed and completely mind-fk’ed. It matters. It changed him. It would change you too. 
SAR I

Not disagreeing with anything you said. The Jets didn’t do him any favors but this notion that a professional athlete can’t pull him self up by his bootstraps after experiencing adversity and a ding to his confidence is nonsense. Whatever happened to Marc on the Jets should have motivated him to work as hard as he could and maximize his abilities elsewhere to prove the naysayers wrong. He obviously couldn’t do that either because he wasn’t mentally tough enough or just wasn’t physically capable of getting any better so he is exactly where he deserves to be right now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[August]

Double standards going on in here 

[LIJetsFan]

16 hours ago, SAR I said:

No one was crying in August 2012.  Back to back AFC Championship Games.  Soundly whipped Tom Brady and the Bill Belichick Patriots in Gillette Stadium in the divisional round.  Jets solidly an elite AFC team.  Spent that summer debating if we had enough cap space to sign Nnamdi Asomugha, remember?  "With Revis and Aso we'll be unstoppable!!!!!" was the discussion forum battle cry.  Not a single word about the quarterback.  The kid looked great.  Battle tested with epic fourth quarter comebacks and 4 playoff games.  All set at QB.  No one said a word about upgrading the position.

Few months later, we're sitting at 8-5 with 3 winnable games against teams with losing records before the defense falls to pieces against Victor Cruz. 9-7.  11-5.  8-5.  Not a bad body of work for a 22 year old kid.

The next year, it's Chaz Schillens, Tim Tebow, Clyde Gates, Stephen Hill, and Tony Sporano.  No QB could survive that.  Just like Eli Manning this year.

Only Giants fans are smart enough to see what's going on here.  The lame GM and terrible HC trying to save their skins.  Jets fans, different story.  They love the fat man with the foot fetish, kick the kid quarterback to the curb.  The only thing worse than what Rex Ryan did to Mark Sanchez is what Jets fans did to Mark Sanchez.  Shame on all of you.

SAR I

I agree with most of this but in fairness it was mostly on Tanny, not Rex.  Tanny brought in the rogue's gallery bolded above.  He also gave Mark that insane extention which necessitated cutting him.

Sporano, yeah blame Rex for that one.  In addition I never understood the hate for Shotty.  He's the one who worked well with Mark regardless of both careers post Jets.  

[#27TheDominator]

**** 'em both in the ear. 

Sparano was there in 2012.  So were Santonio Holmes, Justin Keller and Jeremy Kerley.  I'm not sure where the idea that Shonn Greene was garbage came from.  He had 1000 yards and 8 TDs.  If anything Greene was a scapegoat for his trashy QB. 

[nj meadowlands]

Revisionism is fun

[Jetsplayer21]

Mark Sanchez was a below average qb on a very talented team with the best defense and good running game. A team that carried him the same exact way the ravens Carried Trent dilfer. Dilfer at least got the ring, Sanchez choked terribly in both afc championship games. He is barely hanging on a 3rd stringers in the prime of his career yrs. just because some idiot has a man crush on him (SER) , doesn’t change these facts. 

[Beerfish]

Mark Sanchez was a good part of the reason the two afc title years had to go the wild card route.  The team had a great oline, defense and running game.  his inconsistent play and errors help the team, chuck a number of games that could have given them the div tile one year an perhaps a home game the other year.

As for the playoffs he was incapable of stringing together enough good games to win the super bowl .

The biggest indictment on the player was that in the following years after some experience and a bit of maturity he was expected to carry the load more and help us win games with his good play as a 5ht overall franchise QB.  In this he utterly and totally failed.

Super immature, coddled baby of a QB whop had some flashes but never toughened up and was far less a part of the two afc titles than people like to praise him for.

This guy in my mind is a cautionary tale against totally coddling your young QB being worried you might hurt his confidence and providing no competition at all.

His sh*tty play has been further proven by him doing nothing at all since leavening the jets.

The Jets would have been better off with Josh Mccown or Ryan Fitzpatrick in those two afc title runs.  (Oh how i lament favre walking away from that team.)

[kelly]

18 hours ago, SAR I said:

Everything being said about Eli Manning and the lack of wide receivers, running game, offensive line, and offensive coordination and being passed off as a scapegoat for his GM and head coach is precisely what happened to Mark Sanchez.

So laugh it up Jets fans. This happened to your quarterback in this town too. And Mark Sanchez 2012 was a far better quarterback than Eli Manning 2017.  And unlike Giants fans who are screaming bloody murder right now, you drank the Kool Aid the media fed you.  Buttfumble videos on YouTube hurt your pathetic little millennial safespace feelings and blinded you to the best quarterback we've had since Namath.  

It's Year 5 of the post-Sanchez era.  You got what you wanted.  Hope you're happy.

SAR I

sar I,..

[Dcat]

Last comment on the Sanchez element of all this: anyone who claims that all of Sanchez's bone-headed turnovers (at the worst possible times, no less) were caused by his lack of "offensive weapons", is trying to shift the blame off of where it always belonged: on Mark Sanchez.  He may not have had a great set of weapons after his first 2 years, but those turnovers occurred with or without them.  His inability to see the whole field caused many interceptions and his frequent fumbling all have nothing to do with inferior WRs and/or RBs. It has everything to do with his lack of field vision (he and Geno are identical in that respect) and his poor handling of the ball itself (he is one of the clumsiest QBs I have ever seen). Other QBs manage to get through cycles of poor rosters without constantly turning the ball over the way Sanchez did.  And because most of those turnovers occurred at crucial moments, it has everything to do with his lack of composure and football smarts too.  Sanchez was always a bum and post-Jets, other teams saw this too which accounts for his invisibility after leaving the Jets.

But go ahead and blame Jets fans for Mark's faults.  Wouldn't want to intrude on your convenience.

[The Crusher]

2 hours ago, gEYno said:

Once again... Why is Tim Tebow relevant?

He invented kneeling on the sidelines? 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, rangerous said:

i agree it's preseason and doesn't matter but it still doesn't detract from the fact that he was doing very well until he was injured in the giaints game.  there was no way geno was going to start in 2013.

No, he was not doing very well, and this was far from a "fact" at all.

He was better than Geno, but given the level Geno was at he should have wiped the floor with him; he absolutely didn't, all summer long going back to camp that was open to the public. Then there were the summaries/updates that were written up by reporters how bad of a day he had this day and that and how many days Geno looked a good amount better (even as unready as he was to start yet). So, it's not just the games, though even in them he was still turning the ball over in his past mindless fashion (pick 6 thrown right at a DLman, etc) and so many of his throws were so far off the mark even if they weren't picked off outright. Then consider he was left in there longer than defenders' starters because he was in a competition.

In the games themselves, it could be argued that the one that looked the best that summer was the least-talented of the Simms clan. 

[ZachEY]

7 hours ago, rangerous said:

as i recall, sanchez was lighting it up in the preseason and was ready to lead the team until he got injured.  a lot has been said about his subsequent teams and play.  i agree he didn't seem to have the fire it takes, especially in ny, but he did have the tools.  it could be the shoulder injury was worse than advertised and he just didn't come back as strong as he should have.

When you say lighting it up that preseason, do you mean week 1, when he went 4/6 for 21 yards?  Or, did you mean week 2, when he went 9/11 for 59 yards and a pick?  Or, were you talking about week 3 when he went 11/18 for 123 yards and a pick?

You were probably actually talking about 2013, not 2012.  Did you mean week 1, when he went 10/13 for 125 yards with 1 TD and 1 INT? Or week 2, when he went 13/23 for 169 with 1 TD and 1 INT?  Or, the week he got hurt, when he was 5/6 for 72?

Which of these was "lighting it up?"

[BCJet]

3 hours ago, SAR I said:

Mental toughness was one of Mark’s strengths before Sporano and the destruction of our offense.

He led 5 miracle fourth quarter comebacks in 2010, he won 4 road playoff games, and he was arguably the best Jet on the field in consecutive AFC Championship Games.  Sanchez elevated his game under the brightest lights and the biggest pressure.  

Mark wasn’t undone by anything other than Rex Ryan and his agenda to invest all the free agent money and all the high draft picks on the defense.  That started the slide, and hiring Sporano sealed his fate  

SAR I

12-23  100 yards 1 td 1 int

12-15 182 yards 1 td 0 int

18-31 189 yards 0 td 1 int

16-25  194 yards 3 td 0 int

Those are Sanchez' numbers from the 4 Playoff wins - thats one good game vs the pats and 3 others where he didnt go over 200 yards or throw for more than 1 TD.

The team went out and traded for Braylon Edwards, signed Holmes, gave him the best Oline in the league, drafted a RB in the second round to pair with an excellent veteran, yet it was still the supporting cast's fault.

Sanchez hasnt been able to get off the bench or stop throwing ints since he left the jets.  There is a reason he has been a 3rd string QB for the past 3+ seasons and its not tony sparano's fault.

Did Tony Sparano or Rex Ryan continually throw back-breaking redzone interceptions?  Did they miss the free-rusher against pittsburgh by failing to adjust the protection (for the 200th time) and get strip sacked?

2009/2010 were great playoff runs, and exciting games.  After that Tannenbaum bet that Sanchez would improve and start to carry the team, like good QBs do, rather then let the team carry them.  That bet failed, because although Sanchez has excellent physical skills, he cant read a defense, set a protection or have the on field awareness to realize when to throw it away when in the redzone.  Thats why he is a perennial 3rd string QB - not because of anything else.

[detectivekimble]

4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Thanks for your input but there were not 10 better QBs in 2010 than Mark Sanchez.  You'll pull up meaningless #s and say "see!" but out of context #s are meaningless.  He was vital to us winning 11 games and getting back to another title game.  He would lead numerous late game comebacks to save our overrated D.

I love this argument.  A football game is four ******* quarters.  The offense's job is to score as many points as possible.  If the offense sucks through three quarters and then has to make a "come back" then it didn't do a good job.  The Jets lost 9-10 to the Ravens that year.  How about losing 6-10 to the Dolphins?  Or 0-9 to the Packers?  Is that the defense's fault?  Maybe if Mark Sanchez would have done his ******* job, the Jets would have won those games.  Those are three games without a TD.  That's pathetic.

Big Ben said that the Steelers goal is to put up at least 30 each game.  No wonder the Steelers are winners.  Going out there and trying to score 17 points and hoping your defense holds the opposing offense to something below that is a loser's mentality.