THEORY: Jets are targeting Baker Mayfield

[Warfish]

14 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I wouldn't think so, but they keep seeing the guy. they went to his pro day they had an extensive interview than him

Have they not seen Allen?  Have they not interviewed him?  Is a smokescreen pre-draft not a thing?

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Have they not seen Allen?  Have they not interviewed him?  Is a smokescreen pre-draft not a thing?

Allen hasn't had his pro day yet. I just think people are underestimating the Jeremy Bates factor. Does Allen fit into that system?

[C Mart]

5+ weeks...

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, ChuckkieB said:

I'd be fine with Mayfield, but I think Mac really has his heart set on Rosen and is gonna make another move to get him.

Why do you think that?

I ask only because it's been said on this board a lot but I've seen nothing to support that - in fact, in all likeleyhood he's going to be gone - Mac must know that as much as anyone else.

[Paradis]

2 hours ago, SMC said:

Macc, who likes tall QBs with strong arms did not move up to 3 to take a weak-armed midget QB.

This is all about getting a shot at either Darnold, Rosen or Allen.

His velocity was second only to Allen. Translation; you're full of sh*t.

[ScarletKnight89]

2 hours ago, SMC said:

Macc, who likes tall QBs with strong arms did not move up to 3 to take a weak-armed midget QB.

This is all about getting a shot at either Darnold, Rosen or Allen.

If Macc knows anything about QBs he won't overlook Mayfield. He's the best of the group from a statistical standpoint. He led the nation in QB rating from a pressured pocket and clean pocket and threw one of the best deep balls in the country. The tape is there with him. The concerns are obviously the height.

But Macc definitely does like tall QBs with strong arms. The question is will he learn from a past mistake with Hack and not just take a guy with all the physical tools without the production? If he doesn't take Mayfield then I would have no problem with Darnold or Rosen. I would stay away from Allen.

[legler82]

Only ONE guy of similar stature to Mayfield in the HISTORY of the draft has ever been picked in the 1st. That was Manziel and he almost fell completely out of the first. Yet you guys are trying to convince yourselves that Mr. Safe Pick/Prototypical size QB MacLovin, himself is going to do this trade up to pick Mayfield. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Now if Mayfield had rare arm talent like Mahomes, elite athleticism like Vick and/or put up those gaudy numbers in a more traditional offense, I could see a GM, probably still not Mac, pulling the trigger. But he doesn't. He is an above average arm, decent athlete guy with big production coming from offense and conference that gets big production from guys with lesser arms and athletic ability and who usually have much less talent around them. And oh yeah, Mayfield is also short with some character flags, albeit minor ones.

Let me end with this. It's completely fair and rational to think Mayfield will end up being better than Allen. I think the odds are he will be. Especially since I think Mayfield will likely get drafted later and end up in a better situation. The team that drafts Mayfield will have a plan and probably a coach/GM combo with some cache not unlike what Cdid last year with Mahomes.  Your run of the mill coach/GM combo aren't going to stick their necks out like that especially Mac/Bowles who are trying to save their jobs. GMs do hate to miss on guys like Brees and Wilson, but they are absolutely terrified of being that guy that passed on the next Big Ben, Cam or Wentz. That's why guys like Brees and Wilson criminally get undewrdrafted.  In the draft as in life size matters.

[Scoop24]

34 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

About 50% of us knew for sure that Hackenburg was a big fat awful dud.  Don't sell us short here dude.

I’ll put it about 98% I think everyone in the entire football world knew hackenberg was bad. 

[Maxman]

2 hours ago, jetsons said:

But he is under 6'2"... so are Brees, Wilson & Flutie.

Fun fact: when Tom Brady takes off his heels he is also under 6' 2".

[UnitedWhofans]

Per Dan Patrick's show, The Bills have inquired about #1 with the Browns

And per Brian Costello, some GMs are worried about Mayfield's ability to play in the NE

[FidelioJet]

6 minutes ago, legler82 said:

Only ONE guy of similar stature to Mayfield in the HISTORY of the draft has ever been picked in the 1st. That was Manziel and he almost fell completely out of the first. Yet you guys are trying to convince yourselves that Mr. Safe Pick/Prototypical size QB MacLovin, himself is going to do this trade up to pick Mayfield. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Now if Mayfield had rare arm talent like Mahomes, elite athleticism like Vick and/or put up those gaudy numbers in a more traditional offense, I could see a GM, probably still not Mac, pulling the trigger. But he doesn't. He is an above average arm, decent athlete guy with big production coming from offense and conference that gets big production from guys with lesser arms and athletic ability and who usually have much less talent around them. And oh yeah, Mayfield is also short with some character flags, albeit minor ones.

Let me end with this. It's completely fair and rational to think Mayfield will end up being better than Allen. I think the odds are he will be. Especially since I think Mayfield will likely get drafted later and end up in a better situation. The team that drafts Mayfield will have a plan and probably a coach/GM combo with some cache not unlike what Cdid last year with Mahomes.  Your run of the mill coach/GM combo aren't going to stick their necks out like that especially Mac/Bowles who are trying to save their jobs. GMs do hate to miss on guys like Brees and Wilson, but they are absolutely terrified of being that guy that passed on the next Big Ben, Cam or Wentz. That's why guys like Brees and Wilson criminally get undewrdrafted.  In the draft as in life size matters.

What Mayfield has are the most important things an NFL QB can have....

1) He's accurate - from the pocket and on the move - deep and short

2) He can scan the filed, keep his eyes down field - he is a multi-read QB and he's good at it.

You give me a QB that can find the open reciever and then be accurate getting it there (with an above average arm - 2nd strongest only to Allen) he's the guy I want.  

[Skeptable]

3 hours ago, House Jet said:

It was 5:21am in NY when i wrote this. I couldnt sleep so i go to my usual routine of reading about the Jets until i pass out. Except this time was different. Ive had an epiphany. Jets fans quickly realized the trade to 3 happened after the Jets visited Rosens pro day. The Jets visited Mayfields pro day right before that. With the way things are looking, it seems the Browns will take Darnold. So if Darnold is taken, it only makes sense for the Jets to make this move if they're ok with taking at the very least the 3rd qb available (id assume thats Mayfield). I know the draft has a way of being completely unpredictable. However, my take is that Baker Mayfield is a lot higher on the Jets board than people think and i wouldnt be surprised if they choose him over Rosen. If we stay at 3 which is the most likely scenario, i believe Mac has Rosen and Mayfield rated equally. If the Giants decide to go qb the consensus is that they pick Rosen. It is for this reason i believe the Jets are targeting Mayfield and it seems pretty likely that theyll have a shot at their guy. Id hope Mac didnt give up 3 2nds for a CHANCE at Rosen. I think he knows without a doubt he can get Mayfield at 3. It seems like Mac has a plan and im excited. Sorry in advance that there is no article, but i dont think this is completely baseless. Let me know what you think. Also sorry for the wall of text if your on mobile. It was too early/late to format

I think its, Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield.... in that order.. And I think Browns take Allen #1

[Bruce Harper]

3 hours ago, House Jet said:

It was 5:21am in NY when i wrote this. I couldnt sleep so i go to my usual routine of reading about the Jets until i pass out. Except this time was different. Ive had an epiphany. Jets fans quickly realized the trade to 3 happened after the Jets visited Rosens pro day. The Jets visited Mayfields pro day right before that. With the way things are looking, it seems the Browns will take Darnold. So if Darnold is taken, it only makes sense for the Jets to make this move if they're ok with taking at the very least the 3rd qb available (id assume thats Mayfield). I know the draft has a way of being completely unpredictable. However, my take is that Baker Mayfield is a lot higher on the Jets board than people think and i wouldnt be surprised if they choose him over Rosen. If we stay at 3 which is the most likely scenario, i believe Mac has Rosen and Mayfield rated equally. If the Giants decide to go qb the consensus is that they pick Rosen. It is for this reason i believe the Jets are targeting Mayfield and it seems pretty likely that theyll have a shot at their guy. Id hope Mac didnt give up 3 2nds for a CHANCE at Rosen. I think he knows without a doubt he can get Mayfield at 3. It seems like Mac has a plan and im excited. Sorry in advance that there is no article, but i dont think this is completely baseless. Let me know what you think. Also sorry for the wall of text if your on mobile. It was too early/late to format

This is exactly what I've been thinking (and have posted elsewhere).  If they are reasonably confident that Darnold is going 1, and common sense tells us that the Giants won't pass on Rosen at 2, the Jets simply would not have given up so much unless they were comfortable with Mayfield at 3.  And I think they are.  And I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being the best of the bunch.

[Bruce Harper]

2 hours ago, SMC said:

Macc, who likes tall QBs with strong arms did not move up to 3 to take a weak-armed midget QB.

This is all about getting a shot at either Darnold, Rosen or Allen.

I sure hope you are wrong.  Let's hope Mac can learn from his mistakes.  I will be shocked if Allen is a better pro than Mayfield.

[Beerfish]

19 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

I’ll put it about 98% I think everyone in the entire football world knew hackenberg was bad. 

Oh there were a LOT of defenses on this site, a lot indeed.

[j4jets]

2 hours ago, SMC said:

Macc, who likes tall QBs with strong arms did not move up to 3 to take a weak-armed midget QB.

This is all about getting a shot at either Darnold, Rosen or Allen.

Allen could’ve been had at 6. Even 16. Depending on Buffalo Blows. 

[Sully80]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I simply cannot see this GM picking Mayfield over Allen.  I'd have to see it happen to believe it.

I think the entire point of this move was to get high enough to get Allen, or possibly Rosen or Darnold if something crazy happened, and to AVOID being left holding the Mayfield bag.

 

I'd much prefer Mayfield to Allen but I just don't see Mac passing on him given the tools of the QBs Mac has drafted. I truly believe he likes Allen, and we're doomed. At least this will be entertaining though.

[Bruce Harper]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I simply cannot see this GM picking Mayfield over Allen.  I'd have to see it happen to believe it.

I think the entire point of this move was to get high enough to get Allen, or possibly Rosen or Darnold if something crazy happened, and to AVOID being left holding the Mayfield bag.

 

Allen is going to be the Kyle Boller of this draft.  I am hoping Mac is smart enough to see that.  Any of the other three guys are okay with me but, as I've said before, I would not be shocked if Mayfield ends up being the best of the bunch.

[Jetscreen]

3 hours ago, House Jet said:

It was 5:21am in NY when i wrote this. I couldnt sleep so i go to my usual routine of reading about the Jets until i pass out. Except this time was different. Ive had an epiphany. Jets fans quickly realized the trade to 3 happened after the Jets visited Rosens pro day. The Jets visited Mayfields pro day right before that. With the way things are looking, it seems the Browns will take Darnold. So if Darnold is taken, it only makes sense for the Jets to make this move if they're ok with taking at the very least the 3rd qb available (id assume thats Mayfield). I know the draft has a way of being completely unpredictable. However, my take is that Baker Mayfield is a lot higher on the Jets board than people think and i wouldnt be surprised if they choose him over Rosen. If we stay at 3 which is the most likely scenario, i believe Mac has Rosen and Mayfield rated equally. If the Giants decide to go qb the consensus is that they pick Rosen. It is for this reason i believe the Jets are targeting Mayfield and it seems pretty likely that theyll have a shot at their guy. Id hope Mac didnt give up 3 2nds for a CHANCE at Rosen. I think he knows without a doubt he can get Mayfield at 3. It seems like Mac has a plan and im excited. Sorry in advance that there is no article, but i dont think this is completely baseless. Let me know what you think. Also sorry for the wall of text if your on mobile. It was too early/late to format

I disagree. My feeling is Darnold #1 and Barkley #2. The choice will be all on Mac. My feeling is that there isn't a major step down from Darnold to Rosen, Allen, and Mayfield. Honestly, even if the Jets had the number 1 pick and I were GM, I wouldn't pick Darnold. There's too many concerns there IMO. Call it a hunch. But Mac is going to be able to choose between the guy with the greatest up side (Allen), the guy that looks like the best pure passer but has a few concussions (Rosen), or the guy who is most pro ready but a little short for everyone's taste.

[flgreen]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Mayfield's arm is very strong - stronger than Rosen's..

http://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-2018-NFL-Combine/10241/dh/

I wonder where that 49 leaves Jackson.  And your right, I never understood where this weak arm on Mayfield comes from.  Anyone who has seen him play knows he's got  big upfied arm

[Sonny Werblin]

As to the OP....

What if after visiting both Rosen and Mayfield's pro days, Mac became convinced that Mayfield is not a top QB and that, at most, this is a 3 QB draft, and maybe even 2 pending Allen's pro day. So, knowing the Giants will not move their pick, he called his buddy in Indy and traded up to 3, where he has a reasonable chance at one of the top 2 QBs and definitely would get the third, who he now believes to be Allen after Mayfield failed to impress him.

 

[Bruce Harper]

6 minutes ago, Sully80 said:

I'd much prefer Mayfield to Allen but I just don't see Mac passing on him given the tools of the QBs Mac has drafted. I truly believe he likes Allen, and we're doomed. At least this will be entertaining though.

If that happens (drafting Allen), I am going to take some time off from football fandom.  Anyone know the rules to Cricket?

[BigO]

3 hours ago, slats said:

There are some genuine concerns with Rosen. 

The concussions are the probably the biggest one. You can only have so many before you start looking at serious long-term consequences. The highly intelligent son of a surgeon probably has a strong grasp of the issue. 

The alleged unconventional personality. There seems to be some question out there about how Rosen's personality will translate to the NFL, especially as a leader. That he's more Philip Rivers in that respect than Peyton Manning. Picking this high, the player has to have his head right. 

Does he love the game? Kinda a combination of the top two here. If he has another concussion or two, how long does his career last? Is this his passion? Or is he just looking to cash in? Everyone has the right to just cash in if that's what they want to do, but is that a characteristic you want in your franchise QB? 

Mayfield, on the other hand, doesn't have the injury concerns and appears to be a charismatic leader who absolutely loves the game. But he is under 6'2". 

Mayfield would be a star in the Pee Wee league for sure. 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Sonny Werblin said:

As to the OP....

What if after visiting both Rosen and Mayfield's pro days, Mac became convinced that Mayfield is not a top QB and that, at most, this is a 3 QB draft, and maybe even 2 pending Allen's pro day. So, knowing the Giants will not move their pick, he called his buddy in Indy and traded up to 3, where he has a reasonable chance at one of the top 2 QBs and definitely would get the third, who he now believes to be Allen after Mayfield failed to impress him.

 

This is plausible, and it’s also terrifying that this one idiot, this repeat failure, this ******* dolt, this absolute clown, this Peter-principled jerkoff, would have this much power to shape the future of this team.

[rangerous]

2 hours ago, House Jet said:

Just cant get behind that notion. Mayfield worked for a starting spot walking on to two different teams and winning it. Hes a senior so hes played the most fball out of the top 4 qbs. If you look at his stats from freshmen year to senior he has similar attempts but his number got better in every category. The kid is a winner and whoever picks him is gonna have a fqb for 10 plus years

|
|

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
*2013	Texas Tech	Big 12		QB	8	218	340	64.1	2315	6.8	6.3	12	9	127.7
*2015	Oklahoma	Big 12	JR	QB	13	269	395	68.1	3700	9.4	10.4	36	7	173.3
*2016	Oklahoma	Big 12	JR	QB	13	254	358	70.9	3965	11.1	12.3	40	8	196.4
*2017	Oklahoma	Big 12	SR	QB	14	285	404	70.5	4627	11.5	12.9	43	6	198.9
Career	Overall					1026	1497	68.5	14607	9.8	10.6	131	30	175.4
	Texas Tech					218	340	64.1	2315	6.8	6.3	12	9	127.7
	Oklahoma					808	1157	69.8	12292	10.6	11.9	119	21	189.4

gotta like the game experience plus he's had an increasing qb rating over all 4 years.  his intangibles should trump the additional 3 inches in height darnold or rosen have.

[ChuckkieB]

44 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Why do you think that?

I ask only because it's been said on this board a lot but I've seen nothing to support that - in fact, in all likeleyhood he's going to be gone - Mac must know that as much as anyone else.

I have no real evidence to back that up.  It's just a hunch based on the premise that Mac wouldn't have traded to #3 unless he had strong intel that one of the two top QB's (Darnold and Rosen) would be available at #3 OR he knew that he can probably swing a draft day trade for move up to #1 or #2. 

[Sonny Werblin]

7 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

Allen is going to be the Kyle Boller of this draft.  I am hoping Mac is smart enough to see that.  Any of the other three guys are okay with me but, as I've said before, I would not be shocked if Mayfield ends up being the best of the bunch.

Me too. The kid has made things happen his whole life. He did it. He didn't wait for opportunities to come to him. He made his own opportunities. It is a stupid bet, to bet against a guy like that. Everything Mayfiled has he has worked his ass off for and he has supreme confidence in himself. I look at Allen and I think everything he has is because others have seen potential in him.

From an existential standpoint, all of Mayfield's strengths are internal, while Allen's are external.

[Sonny Werblin]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This is plausible, and it’s also terrifying that this one idiot, this repeat failure, this ******* dolt, this absolute clown, this Peter-principled jerkoff, would have this much power to shape the future of this team.

I don't know if it's real or me just rationalizing, but I've convinced myself that the Giants are going to stay put and not draft a QB. 

[jetsons]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

He's also under 6'1"

and not even 6' 1/2"

so what... neither is Brees & both Wilson & Flutie are under 6 feet.

[Bruce Harper]

4 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Me too. The kid has made things happen his whole life. He did it. He didn't wait for opportunities to come to him. He made his own opportunities. It is a stupid bet, to bet against a guy like that. Everything Mayfiled has he has worked his ass off for and he has supreme confidence in himself. I look at Allen and I think everything he has is because others have seen potential in him.

From an existential standpoint, all of Mayfield's strengths are internal, while Allen's are external.

Tools?  Yes.  Allen's got 'em.  There are a lot of those guys around, including Hack.  Allen hasn't done much yet to evidence he merits being picked at 3.  And like Parcells said, potential means you haven't done anything yet.

[Dr Evil]

Its not enough to go by the combine and stats. There's a big difference to watching highlights of these prospects and watching the games. Yeah the Baker is short but he finds a way to get it done. He just has IT. He has a chip on his shoulder and is ready to prove that he can play in this league. 

[MDL_JET]

Browns will take Rosen. Giants will take Barkley and Jets will pass on Darnold and take Mayfield. A stunning upset. 

[Bruce Harper]

2 minutes ago, Dr Evil said:

Its not enough to go by the combine and stats. There's a big difference to watching highlights of these prospects and watching the games. Yeah the Baker is short but he finds a way to get it done. He just has IT. He has a chip on his shoulder and is ready to prove that he can play in this league. 

You really gotta love that kind of passion.  And I'm not convinced that Rosen has it.

[LionelRichie]

3 hours ago, slats said:

There are some genuine concerns with Rosen. 

The concussions are the probably the biggest one. You can only have so many before you start looking at serious long-term consequences. The highly intelligent son of a surgeon probably has a strong grasp of the issue. 

The alleged unconventional personality. There seems to be some question out there about how Rosen's personality will translate to the NFL, especially as a leader. That he's more Philip Rivers in that respect than Peyton Manning. Picking this high, the player has to have his head right. 

Does he love the game? Kinda a combination of the top two here. If he has another concussion or two, how long does his career last? Is this his passion? Or is he just looking to cash in? Everyone has the right to just cash in if that's what they want to do, but is that a characteristic you want in your franchise QB? 

Mayfield, on the other hand, doesn't have the injury concerns and appears to be a charismatic leader who absolutely loves the game. But he is under 6'2". 

Rosen looks like he was put on earth to throw a football - just not lead a football team.  

mayfield would be fun to root for as a fan. How can you not love the kid.  

[FidelioJet]

12 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

I have no real evidence to back that up.  It's just a hunch based on the premise that Mac wouldn't have traded to #3 unless he had strong intel that one of the two top QB's (Darnold and Rosen) would be available at #3 OR he knew that he can probably swing a draft day trade for move up to #1 or #2. 

I just don't beleive you make a trade like and then "hope" - you make that trade ONLY if you're very happy with any one of your top three.