Joe Thomas: Darnold is a Bust

[munchmemory]

8 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Rehab? That's insulting.

He's teaching the class.

Professor Emeritus, Thomas Shane

[sackdance]

20 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Sam Darnold is not better then anybody.  Hes been terrible.

Now there are reasons for that and we all hope a new coaching staff and better players around him will help.

Darnold leads the leads in picks.  He not better then anybody and most def not eons better then anyone.

I find it rich that "Joe W. Namath" chooses interceptions as the best way to judge a quarterback.

[HelenOfTroy]

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

THIS!!!! This....so freaking much. 

 

You know what I've found so stupid and a complete waste of time and energy? The continuing worthless comparisons of QB's to "pro-style" offenses. 

If a guy was absolutely phenomenal in a particular system, I would do everything I possibly could to make sure that the transition is as streamlined as possible. Why? Because this isnt the 80's and 90's where QB's are drafted and they can consistently sit for 2 and 3 years to learn a new system. Most teams are drafting QB's in order to have them start immediately. Whats the point of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole? 

If a player has been highly successful in a particular offense, especially an offensive scheme the produces a crap ton of points, then implementing that should be a no brainer. But generally it isnt. This is why more and more young 30-something year old coaches are beginning to pop up in the league. It's because they dont have this undying philosophy of yesteryear that forces players to conform to it. These young coaches have no problem running what works or what their QB is most comfortable in. 

Tod Bowles and Jeremy Bates are two jackasses and their GM's biggest accomplishment is finding an undrafted free agent in Robby Anderson, and getting the best season ever out of Ryan Fitzpatrick. 

This team and Sam Darnold are doomed unless Chris can convince his brother to let him actually do what must be done and fire these asshats. 

 

Maybe the Jets should be looking to find a new coach and hopefully that coach finds it as a good idea to enquire about the coaches and coordinators that work with Darnold back at USC and see what they can do to help flesh out the coaching staff. 

Sam Darnold needs an offensive scheme that best allows him to be the best that he can be, he needs and offensive line, and he needs at least one legitimate playmaker as a target. 

I agree with everything you say, except the part in bold.  Sam was not helped at all by his coaches, they are on the verge of being fired for losing four games with all that talent.

Football isn't god at USC, all the admin cares about is raising money and academics.  

End of rant.

[EM31]

I hate it when this argument is used to support/trash other first year QBs so I am not going to use it directly here by citing the notable QBs who have thrown a lot of bad picks in their rookie years.  You all know the players as well as I do.  Nor would I cite a lottery winner as evidence that playing the lottery is a good deal.  A rookie QB throwing a lot of picks on an otherwise bad team is simply not a good indicator of where that QB is going to end up.

I have no issue with Sam "getting out the bad" in a year that wasn't going to go anywhere anyway.  That is, I have no issue with it so long as there ends up being some reasonable evidence that he is beginning to eliminate these errors.  Obviously this has not been shown at this point.

Shane is back.  Ain't that a thang.

 

[Grandy]

19 hours ago, GreenWhite said:

Correct. Until he proves otherwise Samchez is the worst QB in the NFL not named Nate Peterman or Bryce Petty. 

Allen has played worse, and Rosen is slightly under him. That's not even an opinion its backed by stats.

 We get that you hate Darnold but please sound more educated when you rip on him. 

[slimjasi]

9 games as the youngest opening day starting QB in league history. 

 

9 games

[Grandy]

3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

9 games as the youngest opening day starting QB in league history. 

 

9 games

Also the most inexperienced. He's only been playing QB for about 4 years. 

[TNJet]

On 11/15/2018 at 10:17 PM, CrazyCarl40 said:

Eff Joe Thomas. 

This. Enamored with a man named Baker perhaps? Isn't he a Cleveland Brown?? Ofcourse he is hoping Darnold isn't a better player down the road, it makes the Browns stupid again for passing on Sam.

[HelenOfTroy]

1 hour ago, CTM said:

+ Bates calls way too many interception and incompletion plays 

Sam will always throw a lot of interceptions.  He's a gunslinger, that's what you drafted, you live with it.  When he tries to do too much, that's when the trouble starts.  But give him a little time, the fun starts, and the TDs far outweigh the INTs....and there will be some dazzling plays.

2016 Sam had the biggest offensive line in the country....not necessarily good, but huge.  2017 they were all gone but two, and they were injured, leaving true freshman manning the line.  JuJu gone, and the big plays Adoree' Jackson created can not be overstated, Sam looked to him with his blazing football speed to get the first downs and the excitement going.  2017 all Sam had was "Mr. Reliable", Tay.  

A decent Oline, a tough, physical/bruiser/blocker WR (like JuJu), a speed burner, tract star type WR (like Adoree') that can also play RB, and the reliable Tay.  

Is the current staff capable of that?

[Villain The Foe]

2 hours ago, HelenOfTroy said:

I agree with everything you say, except the part in bold.  Sam was not helped at all by his coaches, they are on the verge of being fired for losing four games with all that talent.

Football isn't god at USC, all the admin cares about is raising money and academics.  

End of rant.

Respected. I didnt follow USC down to the coaching staff the way I did OU. 

As a USC fan I'd definitely take your word on it. 

[Creepy Lurker]

2 hours ago, TNJet said:

This. Enamored with a man named Baker perhaps? Isn't he a Cleveland Brown?? Ofcourse he is hoping Darnold isn't a better player down the road, it makes the Browns stupid again for passing on Sam.

Can’t you see? When we lost to the Browns, we became the new Browns. It was a passing of the torch. As great of a prospect as Sam is, we will surely ruin him unless there is drastic change. 

[Jet Nut]

On 11/15/2018 at 11:11 PM, GreenWhite said:

Trent Dilfer was all over Sanchez jock. How did that work out?

 

WTF is it with fans who argue that their players suck.  Fans who are too clueless to make the argument on their own, just quote someone.  

I wouldnt hold on to Baker is better than Darnold nonsense too hard, you're going to look stupid down the road

[HelenOfTroy]

Why can’t both be good?  So what if one ends up the better QB than the other?  Not if they just win.  

Didn’t do Marino any good being a great QB.  No Rings.

[SoFlaJets]

I only read the thread title and IF that is what he said all I can say is what an ignorant thing to say

[Warfish]

On 11/15/2018 at 10:18 PM, TuscanyTile2 said:

Isn't it WAAAAY too early to say that?

Yes.

Early returns are poor.  But it's still too early.

[BroadwayJoe12]

If Sam busts, it will have absolutely nothing to do with the proclamations made by Joseph Hayden Thomas in week 10 of the 2018 NFL season. 

[HelenOfTroy]

 

[Bugg]

9 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

THIS!!!! This....so freaking much. 

 

You know what I've found so stupid and a complete waste of time and energy? The continuing worthless comparisons of QB's to "pro-style" offenses. 

If a guy was absolutely phenomenal in a particular system, I would do everything I possibly could to make sure that the transition is as streamlined as possible. Why? Because this isnt the 80's and 90's where QB's are drafted and they can consistently sit for 2 and 3 years to learn a new system. Most teams are drafting QB's in order to have them start immediately. Whats the point of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole? 

If a player has been highly successful in a particular offense, especially an offensive scheme the produces a crap ton of points, then implementing that should be a no brainer. But generally it isnt. This is why more and more young 30-something year old coaches are beginning to pop up in the league. It's because they dont have this undying philosophy of yesteryear that forces players to conform to it. These young coaches have no problem running what works or what their QB is most comfortable in. 

Tod Bowles and Jeremy Bates are two jackasses and their GM's biggest accomplishment is finding an undrafted free agent in Robby Anderson, and getting the best season ever out of Ryan Fitzpatrick. 

This team and Sam Darnold are doomed unless Chris can convince his brother to let him actually do what must be done and fire these asshats. 

 

Maybe the Jets should be looking to find a new coach and hopefully that coach finds it as a good idea to enquire about the coaches and coordinators that work with Darnold back at USC and see what they can do to help flesh out the coaching staff. 

Sam Darnold needs an offensive scheme that best allows him to be the best that he can be, he needs and offensive line, and he needs at least one legitimate playmaker as a target. 

Makes me nuts we get the annual Peter King "One coach told me the colleges don't get these offensive players for what we do" (Also how they don't get enough practice, another pile of BS). Why is it you draft a round peg that can do things in a college offense, and then, in the Jets' case,jam him into the square hole of handing off from under center 2-3X a series. The Jets' offense  is not   rocket science. It doesn't feature RPOs.  It doesn't look to do much play action despite being so run heavy; in fact the Jets inexplicably and every week run empty backfields that scream "This is a pass play".  Doesn't appear to have any way for the QB to change the play except burning a timeout. Good teams tailor their offense to what their players can do rather than bemoan what they think they cannot do. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

7 hours ago, Grandy said:

Also the most inexperienced. He's only been playing QB for about 4 years. 

I don’t understand why you would bring this up like it’s a good thing.

[NoBowles]

7 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

I don’t understand why you would bring this up like it’s a good thing.

You’re not too swift are ya

[Creepy Lurker]

58 minutes ago, HelenOfTroy said:

 

Maybe Macc will see this and a lightbulb will go off about o-line importance. Nah....

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

3 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

You’re not too swift are ya

I guess not because it seems pretty simple to me. Darnold’s inexperience to me means he’s definitely starting out behind and he may or may not close that gap. To you it means he will definitely close the gap. So, please tell me, at what point are Baker Mayfield and Josh Rosen and the 50 other guys in the league who have been groomed for this since they were twelve going to take a break from working and getting better so as to afford special ed Sam a chance to catch up?

[JetFaninMI]

On 11/16/2018 at 12:32 AM, jeremy2020 said:

I ate a taco today.

Tough Crowd when this gets a down vote. Sheesh.

[Joe W. Namath]

10 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

I guess not because it seems pretty simple to me. Darnold’s inexperience to me means he’s definitely starting out behind and he may or may not close that gap. To you it means he will definitely close the gap. So, please tell me, at what point are Baker Mayfield and Josh Rosen and the 50 other guys in the league who have been groomed for this since they were twelve going to take a break from working and getting better so as to afford special ed Sam a chance to catch up?

Special ed sam?  Thats a little harsh.  

But darnold does stink.  Hope he gets better but its far from a given.

[MichaelScott]

9 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

That's what she said..

 

Not really sure it works there (that's what she said) but I'm always in favor of a TWSS no matter how well it fits lol. + Rep earned! ?

[MichaelScott]

9 hours ago, munchmemory said:

 

[rammagen]

f Joe Thomas. Everyone else says he has all the tools but an idiot that should not be broadcasting cause he a one of the worst homers ever says this. Nevermind he has us typing about so he wins but he looses because he is an idiot

[jeremy2020]

1 hour ago, JetFaninMI said:

Tough Crowd when this gets a down vote. Sheesh.

Hey, some people don't like Tacos. They probably live in Cleveland.

[Larz]

The fear going in was the Jets would try to tame his gun slinging ways and in the process change his game and you would still get the turnovers, but without the magical good plays where the team wins in the end

Welp

[HelenOfTroy]

1 hour ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

I guess not because it seems pretty simple to me. Darnold’s inexperience to me means he’s definitely starting out behind and he may or may not close that gap. To you it means he will definitely close the gap. So, please tell me, at what point are Baker Mayfield and Josh Rosen and the 50 other guys in the league who have been groomed for this since they were twelve going to take a break from working and getting better so as to afford special ed Sam a chance to catch up?

Classless, insensitive and incorrect.  Sam did not get offered by Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Duke and Northwestern because there was any doubt he could not meet the academic standards - especially the Ivies.

My youngest daughter was in special education, she is autistic, and a thirty student classroom was a challenge for her.  

Ignorant and ill-bred  individuals like you and your offspring made her childhood miserable.  She had the last laugh, she’s a talented artist, an exotic beauty, and is about to have her first graphic novel published, while currently doing the art work for a movie.  

Again, classless.

 

[Patriot Killa]

18 minutes ago, HelenOfTroy said:

Classless, insensitive and incorrect.  Sam did not get offered by Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Duke and Northwestern because there was any doubt he could not meet the academic standards - especially the Ivies.

My youngest daughter was in special education, she is autistic, and a thirty student classroom was a challenge for her.  

Ignorant and ill-bred  individuals like you and your offspring made her childhood miserable.  She had the last laugh, she’s a talented artist, an exotic beauty, and is about to have her first graphic novel published, while currently doing the art work for a movie.  

Again, classless.

 

Lonely Hearts is one of the absolute worst posters on here if you ask me. I wouldn’t let it get to you. Provides nothing to the board but cheap jokes and every one once in a while makes her/himself look like one too.

Being a 4th year QB speaks nothing for Sam’s mental competency and he obviously is smart enough to go through progressions at such a quick rate as well as process information in the pros.

[Jet_Engine1]

22 minutes ago, HelenOfTroy said:

Classless, insensitive and incorrect.  Sam did not get offered by Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Duke and Northwestern because there was any doubt he could not meet the academic standards - especially the Ivies.

My youngest daughter was in special education, she is autistic, and a thirty student classroom was a challenge for her.  

Ignorant and ill-bred  individuals like you and your offspring made her childhood miserable.  She had the last laugh, she’s a talented artist, an exotic beauty, and is about to have her first graphic novel published, while currently doing the art work for a movie.  

Again, classless.

 

100%

[NoBowles]

11 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Lonely Hearts is one of the absolute worst posters on here if you ask me. I wouldn’t let it get to you. Provides nothing to the board but cheap jokes and every one once in a while makes her/himself look like one too.

Being a 4th year QB speaks nothing for Sam’s mental competency and he obviously is smart enough to go through progressions at such a quick rate as well as process information in the pros.

He is by far the worst poster on this board for sure, not even close.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

39 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Lonely Hearts is one of the absolute worst posters on here if you ask me.

Word vomit and cry about it.

I have asked this question before and I didn't get an answer because there isn't one but here it is again. If you're teaching five-step drops and play action when everybody else is doing installs, then when are you doing installs? Keeping up with the Bradys is a 24/7 job. This 'extra' time when Darnold is gonna learn all the stuff he's already supposed to know is never going to happen except at the expense of doing something else. I cannot make this more practical or concrete. Eight of this season's top ten quarterbacks by DYAR are guys who have been in the league for a DECADE, and the brilliant plan here is for Darnold not only to outwork these guys but to do so to the tune of getting from where he is to where he needs to be? 

[Larz]

13 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Word vomit and cry about it.

I have asked this question before and I didn't get an answer because there isn't one but here it is again. If you're teaching five-step drops and play action when everybody else is doing installs, then when are you doing installs? Keeping up with the Bradys is a 24/7 job. This 'extra' time when Darnold is gonna learn all the stuff he's already supposed to know is never going to happen except at the expense of doing something else. I cannot make this more practical or concrete. Eight of this season's top ten quarterbacks by DYAR are guys who have been in the league for a DECADE, and the brilliant plan here is for Darnold not only to outwork these guys but to do so to the tune of getting from where he is to where he needs to be? 

So I was watching a football life tonight on Favre

when he was a packer, 2nd year in the league, he had to ask detmer what nickel meant

You're just an angry little blowhard