Idzik v. Macc: The Final Word

[genot]

Robby Anderson,{an undrafted fa out of Temple], has performed at a higher level, than any player Idzik drafted, or signed as a FA. Case closed.

[Sperm Edwards]

16 hours ago, David Harris said:

Idzik's one draft was an abomination, Mac actually had to draft better than him.

 

Macc got Darnold, lucked into it but did it anyway.  End of debate.

No it is not end of debate, except to those who only want to hear their own reasoning and no one else’s.

Try comparing first 2 drafts to first 2 drafts instead of 2 drafts to 5 (4 of them 5 with top 6 overall picks at that).

Both were terrible.  Maccagnan did more damage with greater advantages, and was simply dumber.

[nycdan]

Where would you put Parcells as a GM in this competition?  Not much better in my view.

 

 

[Matt39]

18 minutes ago, genot said:

Robby Anderson,{an undrafted fa out of Temple], has performed at a higher level, than any player Idzik drafted, or signed as a FA. Case closed.

Not sure if Maccagnan deserves credit for bringing in a player who someone beneath him probably “identified.” The GM wasnt combing through Robby Anderson tape.

Decker was a better receiver than Robby imo.

[David Harris]

22 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No it is not end of debate, except to those who only want to hear their own reasoning and no one else’s.

Try comparing first 2 drafts to first 2 drafts instead of 2 drafts to 5 (4 of them 5 with top 6 overall picks at that).

Both were terrible  Maccagnan did more damage with greater advantages, and was simply dumber.

How dare you question me

Anyway- Mac got the only FQB of the least 40 years.  That’s why for me he wins. Everyone can disagree- none of it matter now, it’s cool.

[Sperm Edwards]

7 minutes ago, David Harris said:

How dare you question me

Anyway- Mac got the only FQB of the least 40 years.  That’s why for me he wins. Everyone can disagree- none of it matter now, it’s cool.

Well it was hard for him not to. He’d passed up on opportunities for 5 probowl QBs in the prior 2 drafts. Who honestly gets that many chances? 

[sirlancemehlot]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

I think you're being very generous to Idzick who was an incompetent as incompetent gets. 

 

Idzick was a far better manager than mac. Remember he left mac with a huge budget, but he himself started out with a hellish cap and tons of overpriced vets. He turned many of those into compensatory picks.   Of course he couldn't draft worth a damn. But neither could mac. Idzick is better by a nose if you ask me.  

[Icer]

Maccagnan, because he lasted 5 years and had more chances to be awful

[genot]

19 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Not sure if Maccagnan deserves credit for bringing in a player who someone beneath him probably “identified.” The GM wasnt combing through Robby Anderson tape.

Decker was a better receiver than Robby imo.

Decker sucked. had more dropped passes in a year, than Anderson ever had, or ever will.

[genot]

3 minutes ago, sirlancemehlot said:

Idzick was a far better manager than mac. Remember he left mac with a huge budget, but he himself started out with a hellish cap and tons of overpriced vets. He turned many of those into compensatory picks.   Of course he couldn't draft worth a damn. But neither could mac. Idzick is better by a nose if you ask me.  

Your nuts. We had loads of cap space last year. we have loads of cap space this year.

[Creepy Lurker]

No comment.....

[T0mShane]

3 hours ago, CTM said:

Since T0m likes Idzik and Pac likes Mac how about we settle this in the Thunderdome? Each nitwit battling to the death for their boos honor. The surviving JN'er decides the results

Then just as the winner raises his hand in victory we fire a projectile at them from at tactical grenade launcher, declare them both losers and unite in celebration that both GM's and posters are no more.

I’m not sure you’re aware of this fact, but I am an insanely powerful physical specimen and @pac is built like a pudgy bank teller.

[T0mShane]

As to the poll, Idzik was brought in to put out a series of five alarm fires and he mostly did so. Maccagnan came along after the fires were out and you couldn’t have done much worse with a rebuild if you forfeit every pick you had and spent the free agent money on porn.

[Jetpain]

Are we allowed to cast a vote for Woody and his brother? They are responsible for hiring both of the under qualified, and poorly prepared general managers.  Somehow Woody flys under the radar on his hires like this while the masses publicly execute Idzik and Macagnan over and over.  They both sucked but I put the blame on the owner for their initial hire and not putting either  guy in a position to even be successful.   

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, genot said:

Robby Anderson,{an undrafted fa out of Temple], has performed at a higher level, than any player Idzik drafted, or signed as a FA. Case closed.

5 full years and he found one medium udfa who the team might let walk this year.  Five full years and that is his claim to fame.

Drafting 3 olinemen in 5 years is the big case closed moment.

[CTM]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’m not sure you’re aware of this fact, but I am an insanely powerful physical specimen and @pac is built like a pudgy bank teller.

Pac is built and looks like a like a naked mole rat, meaning his entire body and head looks like a flaccid penis. It's obscene frankly and he should kept behind closed doors at all times.

 

[Daddy Wang Doodle]

A lot of people have already chimed in with pretty much my exact thoughts, but because I'm a horrible narcissist I'll still state my opinion.

Idzik was bad, but Mac was downright ******* terrible. Even if some of his picks pan out (e.g. Darnold), the dude was absolutely ******* clueless and had no process for going about drafting players. You can obviously still draft good players out of sheer luck, but I'll take a sound process that was unable to be carried out, rather than stumbling ass backwards into some decent/good picks. You can live with poor results as long as the way you went about it made sense.

[freestater]

Hackenberg. 

O-line strategy from a place that murdered their first franchise QB. 

Trumaine Johnson 

BAP till ya bleed, I guess. 

[Jetscode1]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No it is not end of debate, except to those who only want to hear their own reasoning and no one else’s.

Try comparing first 2 drafts to first 2 drafts instead of 2 drafts to 5 (4 of them 5 with top 6 overall picks at that).

Both were terrible  Maccagnan did more damage with greater advantages, and was simply dumber.

They both were dumb but Macc got J&J to give him more time so Idzik was dumber.  Idzik had a plan but forgot to include his coach, Macc got a coach who through him under a bus before his very first game and left a greater impact (crater).  Either could have been replaced by a poll of JN and we would look appreciably better.

[Jetscode1]

30 minutes ago, CTM said:

Pac is built and looks like a like a naked mole rat, meaning his entire body and head looks like a flaccid penis. It's obscene frankly and he should kept behind closed doors at all times.

 

You know a little too much about Pac and a flaccid penis.

[genot]

34 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

5 full years and he found one medium udfa who the team might let walk this year.  Five full years and that is his claim to fame.

Drafting 3 olinemen in 5 years is the big case closed moment.

That's a bushleague response to my post. Name me one player that Idzik drafted that has been as productive as Anderson. Sheldon. That's it. If you can't name another player then it is case closed. Sheldon is the only player he drafted that did anything positive in the league.

[Bungaman]

4 hours ago, jgb said:

The best part about the Macc flameout is the utter repudiation of #BAP, which is just a name for risk-averse, drafting-not-to-lose, weakness.

BAP works to some extend - when you DO give some weight to need - if you actually take the BAP rather than the WAP/most overrated player three rounds early.

[Bungaman]

4 hours ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

Death by bungie!

Attached to their naughty bits. Think of the pay per view charity funds that could be raised ...

[BROOKLYN JET]

25 minutes ago, Bungaman said:

Attached to their naughty bits. Think of the pay per view charity funds that could be raised ...

Bungie not bungee...

Three guys are walking through a jungle when they are caught and taken prisoner by a savage tribe. The tribe chief says to the first man, "I will give you two choices. Death, or bungie."

The man, not knowing what 'bungie' was, decided to choose that, because anything could be better than death. So the tribe proceeded to sodomize him repeatedly, for over an hour until he could barely walk. He stumbled away in tears as the other two men watched in horror.

The chief asks the second man, "Death, or bungie?" The man was horrified by what he had seen, but still would rather not die. He chose bungie, and the tribe proceeded to sodomize him even more viciously than the first man, for hours and hours, leaving him permanently crippled. He dragged himself away, sobbing.

The chief asked the last man, "Death or bungie?" The man decided that anything could be better than this 'bungie', even death. "I choose death!" the man exclaimed, bravely. The chief smiled. "Very well. Death.. by bungie!"

[Big_Slick]

Idzik had one job and that was to sabotage Rex so Woody could fire him. Idzik's draft picks were all losers but his failure to address the corner back position when Rex's defense depended on CB's showed that was Woody's plan all along. 

Macc was the worst GM I can recall.

[rex-n-effect]

Idzik was worse. 

 

Idzik had one skill and that was not spending money. He performed that necessary service of unwinding all the unnecessary contracts left behind by Tannenbaum so he deserves whatever credit one deserves for not signing players or dealing away big contracts in cap hell. He did very little to build a front office or give the head coach tools to succeed. Obviously his drafts were awful and his FA picks were not much better. I saw somebody give him credit for Decker but really how much credit do you award for taking a starter from the super bowl team shedding players? Obvious FA acquisition is obvious. Idzik would have been a good hire in 2013 in a lower role to help a new GM unwind all those contracts but he had no business being in charge.

Mac tried to build a front office and tried to build a roster but he was terrible at it. He made terrible picks, his front office did not deliver and his strategy did not work for the amount of work the roster needed when he showed up. Both teams inherited problems and left behind problems but I think Mac left behind a better roster (though not by much). Mac got saddled with a much worse coach than Idzik--as bad as sexy rexy was those last two years it is hard to imagine any of the Mac rosters only winning four or five games with sexy rexy. 

Mac edges Idzik out for the worst because he built a less awful team and because he tried to build a front office and do the entire job. 

[More Cowbell]

This is like what's worse, small pox or the black plague 

[DRJETS]

3 hours ago, Jetpain said:

Are we allowed to cast a vote for Woody and his brother? They are responsible for hiring both of the under qualified, and poorly prepared general managers.  Somehow Woody flys under the radar on his hires like this while the masses publicly execute Idzik and Macagnan over and over.  They both sucked but I put the blame on the owner for their initial hire and not putting either  guy in a position to even be successful.   

Bingo.  Those two clowns had been sabotaging the Jets ever since the day they assumed ownership.  The first of many others twenty  years ago allowing Belichick to walk in favor of the Tuna who by this time was as big of a mercenary as Blackbeard ever was, since then, this organization has been cursed, haunted  making dumb stupid decision while the Pats had been making all the right decision.  

 

[Losmeister]

edit suggest for thread title...

 

the last turd

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, Jetscode1 said:

They both were dumb but Macc got J&J to give him more time so Idzik was dumber.  Idzik had a plan but forgot to include his coach, Macc got a coach who through him under a bus before his very first game and left a greater impact (crater).  Either could have been replaced by a poll of JN and we would look appreciably better.

Haha you may have a point on Maccagnan’s greater success in self-preservation. But more likely Rex was there first and he had far more of J&J’s ear than Idzik would ever have. Toss in that, after canning a GM after two years, Maccagnan was always going to have a longer leash. 

I don’t know that Idzik forgot to include his coach so much as - as some have suggested - getting rid of the coach was part of the plan. Thing is he was so effective in it he got himself canned in the process. However while I think that extended to FA moves he did or didn’t make, I don’t know that I’m conspiratorial enough to believe he purposely drafted busts. 

100% on the last part, so long as the poll wasn’t conducted among those true believers whose judgment ultimately is, “Whatever the Jets coach or GM did or does is always right. They are our superiors and know better and that’s why they’re in these positions and not us.” It’s a pathological syndrome that some believe job titles - past or present - connotes competence.

Whatever. Daddy used to say there’s an ass for every seat. 

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I’m not sure you’re aware of this fact, but I am an insanely powerful physical specimen and @pac is built like a pudgy bank teller.

You weren’t really a wrestler. That was just acting. Also Linda Fiorentino wasn’t actually into you. She was acting, too.

[jgb]

Biggest problem with Idzik is that he calculated a player's value on paper and then refused to modify his calculations based on the market.

Biggest problem with Macc is he didn't calculate a player's value on paper and then negotiated against himself furiously until he got his man.

 

[jgb]

12 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

Nonsense. This post is crap.

Well I guess that settles it ?

9 hours ago, Bungaman said:

BAP works to some extend - when you DO give some weight to need - if you actually take the BAP rather than the WAP/most overrated player three rounds early.

If "drafting the best available player" and "drafting the best available player at a position of need" are both BAP, then every draft strategy is "BAP." What other draft strategies are there? Draft the crappiest player at a position of non-need?

"Modified BAP" is a made-up phrase so people don't have to admit they were wrong and that BAP doesn't work. It's simple to see why. The draft is a notorious crapshoot and it's difficult to extrapolate collegiate athletic performance to the pro game. Let's say a GM has a 50% "hit rate" (it's much lower, especially in the later rounds). The GM who follows BAP and is blind to need is adding another independent variable to the mix: that his coach is able to find a position for the unneeded player to contribute or that the player can learn a new position/scheme in order to see the field. Let's be generous and say 75% chance of pulling that off.

.50 x .75 = .375 x 100% = 37.5% chance of it working out.

Why add more risk and uncertainty to an uncertain process?

And this is the best case scenario. To see a worse consequence of BAP just look to our own Jets and their fetish for DL. We were rotating in first round players. At any given time we had first round draft capital sitting on the bench. On a team with a billion holes. Asinine.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

13 hours ago, jgb said:

The best part about the Macc flameout is the utter repudiation of #BAP, which is just a name for risk-averse, drafting-not-to-lose, weakness.

More concisely, “drafting not to lose YOUR job”.

I wish I had seen the interviews given by Maccagnan when he was hired.  If I’m doing the hiring I wouldn’t have even let him sit down for the interview when he walked in.  Wouldn’t let him say a word other than “goodbye”.

Johnsons don’t have one iota of street smarts.

[jgb]

33 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

More concisely, “drafting not to lose YOUR job”.

I wish I had seen the interviews given by Maccagnan when he was hired.  If I’m doing the hiring I wouldn’t have even let him sit down for the interview when he walked in.  Wouldn’t let him say a word other than “goodbye”.

Johnsons don’t have one iota of street smarts.

Easy to see why their feet have never touched a public street in their lives