Is Gase taking too much heat from Jets fans?

[Dcat]

Just now, UntouchableCrew said:

I think there's an intellectual argument that Gase is being dealt with unfairly.

I mean, 7-10 in his first 17 games when taking over a franchise that had gone 14-34 the previous three years isn't that bad.

But within context he's just done such a poor job and has such a track record of failure that it's obvious to anyone who follows football that he's an abject disaster who's in the process of making us worse.

1) He's an offensive guru whose offenses have consistently been near the bottom of the league for 5+ years.

2) Players seem to thrive as soon as they get away from him.

3) His offenses appear to be unimaginative, predictable and out of touch with today's game. He's stubborn and instead of playing to the strengths of his players and adopting faster paced spread concepts that make things easy on young QBs he tries to force square pegs into round holes.

4) He takes zero accountability. Always blames everyone but himself.

5) He has negative charisma and clearly isn't a strong leader.

6) He has a fearful, surrender approach to coaching. He isn't willing to take chances. When down he plays to keep the stats as respectable as possible rather than to compete or win.

He's not the guy, and everyone other than Christopher Johnson knew it before he was signed.

the only number that really matters to me is not on your list:

1.  Failure to develop Darnold, including, but not limited to, failure to adapt his offense to Darnold's strengths due to abject arrogance and stubborness that the "Gase game-plan" (whatever that might be) is more sacred than the Ten Commandments.  

[peebag]

Lolzer...you guys and gals are gonna have fun next year when Gase is back.

Bottom line is cash.

Johnsons not gonna pay a coach with 2 years left on a contract.

[SAR I]

8 minutes ago, RevisIsland610 said:

Darnold wasn't sick in the second half of the year and they played some really weak teams which included the Buffalo Bills 2nd and 3rd string which they barley beat. They also lost badly to 2 winless teams. Stop making it seem like they went on some playoff run. They suck and so does Gase. 

Every one of the 8 games the Jets played in the second half last year they were the underdog.

Every one of the 8 games the Jets played in the second half last year had a superior roster.

And we beat 6 of them.  That is quite an accomplishment for the worst roster in the NFL.

This season, we haven't faced that type of competition and we have even more injuries and at the worst possible spots.  So we judge Gase and Darnold in 3-4 weeks when the injured players return.  When our top receivers are named Crowder, Perriman, and Mims and not Berrios, Who?, and Who?

SAR I

[More Cowbell]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Well, right back at you.  How do you know how Sam is being coached while with the Jets?  Do you work in Florham Park?  Do you have drones?

How about we both agree that Sam Darnold is getting good coaching and that the juvenile mistakes he's making this year, this so called 'regression', is on him and not those who are supporting him.  He's not failing at advanced quarterbacking; he's failing at the simple stuff, the baby stuff.

SAR I

Actually I have been saying he hasn't  been coached but you keep being you SAR

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, peebag said:

Lolzer...you guys and gals are gonna have fun next year when Gase is back.

Bottom line is cash.

Johnsons not gonna pay a coach with 2 years left on a contract.

More than likely they will take him to court to have him deemed mentally incompetent, there are enough bug eye videos around to help their claim. 

[Ken Schroy]

9 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Trumaine Johnson, Henry Anderson, CJ Mosley, LeVeon Bell, Jamison Crowder, Quincy Enunwa

Those 6 guys take up over 35 percent of the teams cap space. 

Quinnen Williams, Sam Darnold, Marcus Maye, Blessaun Austin, Jordan Jenkins, Chris Herndon

From 2015-2019 (5 drafts) those are current starters of which 4/6 need to be upgraded. 
 

The men responsible for this mess is Mike McCagnan and Christopher Johnson. This season is a culmination of the mess they made with this roster. Gase deserves some blame, but it’s not all on him-not even close. 

Good God.

[UntouchableCrew]

2 minutes ago, Dcat said:

the only number that really matters to me is not on your list:

1.  Failure to develop Darnold, including, but not limited to, failure to adapt his offense to Darnold's strengths due to abject arrogance and stubborness that the "Gase game-plan" (whatever that might be) is more sacred than the Ten Commandments.  

I'd argue that this is encompassed within the first three, especially point 3. But given that the whole reason he was hired was to develop Darnold (despite having zero track record of developing young QBs) I'll allow it.

[Beerfish]

-  Anyone that thinks the fans feel it is all gases fault simply have not at all been paying attention to things.

- Anyone that thinks giving Gase a pass for this reason are utter tools who are not paying attention to things.

[68JET11]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Adam Gase inherited an awful Idzik/Maccagnan roster and it’s always injured. No one could be creative on gameday with the weakest receiving corps in the NFL, weakest OL in the NFL, weakest ground game in the NFL.  If you think a coaching change would make any difference you are sadly mistaken.

The fact that Gase is 6-5 in his last 11 games is a miracle unto itself.  

SAR I

Your excuses are running THIN...

[pdxgreen]

He was taking too much from the press.  NOT from us!

[greenwichjetfan]

2 hours ago, CTM said:

Never made the top 100 eh? That is pretty bad 

He's never even made a top 1000.

[SAR I]

Just now, 68JET11 said:

Your excuses are running THIN...

No, you are just bored of hearing the truth.

No one likes the fact that the Jets were hit with devastating injuries last year and again this year.  No one wants to hear that we have the thinnest roster in the NFL after a decade of neglect and bad GM's.  No one wants to face the fact that the Jets are one of the worst destinations in all of professional sports and very little talent wants to come here.

But those aren't excuses.  Those are the REASONS we are in the spot we're in.  And Adam Gase has nothing to do with 10 years of f-ups by others.  Adam is part of the solution, he's not the problem.  And firing him this week would be the worst thing Christopher Johnson could do.  Appeasing dumb, entitled Jets fans is what got us into this mess.  Ignoring you is what is going to get us out of it.

SAR I

[greenwichjetfan]

Just now, SAR I said:

No, you are just bored of hearing the truth.

No, everyone is just bored of hearing from you. I get that you're trolling, but this iteration of SAR I isn't even good. Go back to PSLs and beemers. 

[More Cowbell]

4 minutes ago, SAR I said:

No, you are just bored of hearing the truth.

No one likes the fact that the Jets were hit with devastating injuries last year and again this year.  No one wants to hear that we have the thinnest roster in the NFL after a decade of neglect and bad GM's.  No one wants to face the fact that the Jets are one of the worst destinations in all of professional sports and very little talent wants to come here.

But those aren't excuses.  Those are the REASONS we are in the spot we're in.  And Adam Gase has nothing to do with 10 years of f-ups by others.  Adam is part of the solution, he's not the problem.  And firing him this week would be the worst thing Christopher Johnson could do.  Appeasing dumb, entitled Jets fans is what got us into this mess.  Ignoring you is what is going to get us out of it.

SAR I

SAR, are you aware that Collin Cowherd is equating the injuries to players not wanting to play for Gase there fore he is losing the locker room?

He's a pretty credible source.  

[SAR I]

4 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

No, everyone is just bored of hearing from you. I get that you're trolling, but this iteration of SAR I isn't even good. Go back to PSLs and beemers. 

Not trolling, never do, just one of the few rational Jets fans left.

SAR I

[BornJetsFan1983]

3 hours ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Clearly that has nothing to do with having an absolute dearth of talent on either side of the ball. Gase probably won't survive, but his replacement will still have a putrid roster.

I'm see SF or any other team with injuries and crap happinging this year or last. My fav is SF and then someone like hubert ballin..or maybe chicago etc

[SAR I]

Just now, More Cowbell said:

SAR, are you aware that Collin Cowherd is equating the injuries to players not wanting to play for Gase there fore he is losing the locker room?

He's a pretty credible source.  

I like Colin, but that's tin foil hat territory.

SAR I

[BornJetsFan1983]

8 minutes ago, SAR I said:

No, you are just bored of hearing the truth.

No one likes the fact that the Jets were hit with devastating injuries last year and again this year.  No one wants to hear that we have the thinnest roster in the NFL after a decade of neglect and bad GM's.  No one wants to face the fact that the Jets are one of the worst destinations in all of professional sports and very little talent wants to come here.

But those aren't excuses.  Those are the REASONS we are in the spot we're in.  And Adam Gase has nothing to do with 10 years of f-ups by others.  Adam is part of the solution, he's not the problem.  And firing him this week would be the worst thing Christopher Johnson could do.  Appeasing dumb, entitled Jets fans is what got us into this mess.  Ignoring you is what is going to get us out of it.

SAR I

You saw the SF 49 er game right? What you say doesn't move with reality.

We played back ups to back up and we're not even close to competing because of adam gase. Switch coaches and give SF all thier starters and the would lose to our roster that we have right now coached by kyle.

I don't think it's the worst thing to do , firing gase, but I also not sure it will happen. You and ownership are convinced gase despite all the evidence to the contrary, should be coaching the Jets

 

I don't get it.

 

[TMAC]

There's a lot of blame to go around starting with the owner and his idiot brother, but Gase has to go.  The sooner the better.

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

1 minute ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Switch coaches and give SF all thier starters and the would lose to our roster that we have right now coached by kyle.

The Jets have good players who don't play good because Gase. Right. This roster coached by Bill Walsh couldn't beat the Canadian semipro 7-on-7 team Nathan Shepherd played for when he was working nights in the box factory coached by you.

[More Cowbell]

11 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

You saw the SF 49 er game right? What you say doesn't move with reality.

We played back ups to back up and we're not even close to competing because of adam gase. Switch coaches and give SF all thier starters and the would lose to our roster that we have right now coached by kyle.

I don't think it's the worst thing to do , firing gase, but I also not sure it will happen. You and ownership are convinced gase despite all the evidence to the contrary, should be coaching the Jets

 

I don't get it.

 

Gase is gone. Whether we win or lose Thursday will not change that. Too many sources  are reporting it. It really makes no difference to be honest if they do it now or later. I don't  think anyone on the current coaching staff is going to help Sam at this point. 

[ScarletKnight89]

1 hour ago, Losmeister said:

JN are schitt at language.

lack of progression is not regression, its more akin to stagnantion. 

Sam is the same as he ever was. Stagnant Sam?

Stagnant Adam?

Tannehill was decent w/ Gase in 2016-17. shrug.

he's definitely more efficient nowthat he has derrick hanry the beast.

 

Agree to disagree

[Dcat]

33 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Appeasing dumb, entitled Jets fans is what got us into this mess.  Ignoring you is what is going to get us out of it.

SAR I

By hiring the incompetent Gase, who had just speent a couple of years making a bad team worse in Miami,  just HOW did Christopher Johnson APPEASE the fans?

The fans, almost unanimously, were smarter than our idiot owners and did NOT want Gase under any circumstances.  If anything, Dummy Johnsons did what they could to NOT appease the fan base.  You got it all backwards when it comes to this.  

Gase is horrific and none of the excuses you post change that.  (nice attempt to rename them as reasons BTW, but no, they are Gase-excuses just like you made Sanchez excuses).

Good luck defending the indefensible.  

[Losmeister]

2 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Agree to disagree

sure...  lack of progression is regression.

Tannehill gets yards with his legs better , has a better arm, better mechanics than Sam.

Tannheill was decent w/ Gase. had a bad year after apretty bad knee injury.

Matt Moore slayed the Jets under Gase .

and, again, i dgaf about Gase or even like him. 

 

[RevisIsland610]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Every one of the 8 games the Jets played in the second half last year they were the underdog.

Every one of the 8 games the Jets played in the second half last year had a superior roster.

And we beat 6 of them.  That is quite an accomplishment for the worst roster in the NFL.

This season, we haven't faced that type of competition and we have even more injuries and at the worst possible spots.  So we judge Gase and Darnold in 3-4 weeks when the injured players return.  When our top receivers are named Crowder, Perriman, and Mims and not Berrios, Who?, and Who?

SAR I

Just stop. They squeaked by a lousy Miami team by 1 point and got stomped 22-6 by the winless bengals in game 12. They also played the horrible Giants and Washington and Buffalo's second/third string in last game of the season. The only rosters that were better were Oakland, Ravens, and Steelers. 

[nyjunc]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Fundamentally, what's wrong with the world.  Ignoring the actual reason for a problem because they are bored with the reason.  Ho hum, there's a reason the Jets suck, it's a bad roster that's injured, but nah, I can't hear that truth anymore, just tired of it, it's been two seasons of injuries, Zzzzz.

If your car has no fuel, you can't drive it.  You might be the best driver in the world, doesn't matter if your car is out of gas.  And you can sit there and hear that over and over until it bores you, but it doesn't change the fact that you need gas.

SAR I

I don't disagree with you but he's had terrible injury luck each year he's coached.  Is it coincidence? Is it something he's doing?  I don't know but how many years can you lose waiting for it to change?

[Biggs]

2 hours ago, Dcat said:

Sam has lots of problems, for sure.  But Gase has done NOTHING to imrove him.  Nothing.  He can 100% be indicted for failing to develop this QB.  And he was allegedly a QB guru, but all of Gase's history points to QB failure (Tannehill, Darnold).  Peyton Manning did his own thing and Gase let him.  That's why Manning loved him.  Apples and Oranges.  Gase is terrible with QBs.

You make the assumption that a raw talent with great intangibles, bad fundamentals who may not be that bright grasps concepts and puts them into practice in a linear upward trajectory.  Go out and take a golf or tennis lesson and I'm going to bet you get worse before you get better.

Sam has great intangibles.  He sucks at the tangibles.  He doesn't have a solid fundamental base.  He has to relearn and think about everything he's doing.  Not surprising he's playing worse.  That's why he shouldn't have been thrown in from day 1 and should be benched.

Gase may well be improving Sam and the results might not show up for years if ever.

[Dcat]

10 minutes ago, Biggs said:

You make the assumption that a raw talent with great intangibles, bad fundamentals who may not be that bright grasps concepts and puts them into practice in a linear upward trajectory.  Go out and take a golf or tennis lesson and I'm going to bet you get worse before you get better.

Sam has great intangibles.  He sucks at the tangibles.  He doesn't have a solid fundamental base.  He has to relearn and think about everything he's doing.  Not surprising he's playing worse.  That's why he shouldn't have been thrown in from day 1 and should be benched.

Gase may well be improving Sam and the results might not show up for years if ever.

That narrative is inconsistent with Sam's significant improvement in the 2nd half of year 1 followed by steady regression under Gase.  Nope..  Gase has harmed darnold, I am sure of it.

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

By hiring the incompetent Gase, who had just speent a couple of years making a bad team worse in Miami,  just HOW did Christopher Johnson APPEASE the fans?

Most coaching changes in the NFL happen because fans gripe and the media fuels the flames.  What's going on with this Gase hate (4 games last year, 3 games this year) is ridiculous, it's an all-time low in this regard.

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

The fans, almost unanimously, were smarter than our idiot owners and did NOT want Gase under any circumstances.  If anything, Dummy Johnsons did what they could to NOT appease the fan base.  You got it all backwards when it comes to this.  

Coaches get fired in New York when fans whine.  Coaches who fans perceive as warm and cuddly like Herm Edwards and Rex Ryan, get to stick around way beyond their welcome.  The Johnson's, if anything, have been too open to fan input.  This time they are trying to do it right.  Young offensive mind.  Experienced NFL head coach.  Give the guy a few years.  Let's see Gase with a healthy roster.  This isn't Joe Walton who was given forever with decent talent.  Could be more like Pete Carroll who was run out of town because of 'optics' and became an NCAA and NFL legend.

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

Gase is horrific and none of the excuses you post change that.  (nice attempt to rename them as reasons BTW, but no, they are Gase-excuses just like you made Sanchez excuses).

Not excuses.  Reasons.  There is a reason we have a terrible passing game.  We have no wide receivers.  And I don't say that because it's easier than listing the actual receivers whose names none of us know.  We literally don't have NFL players on our roster.  

Sanchez?  I was right.  The Jets didn't magically start dominating the AFC when Mark was ousted.  Those who succeeded him had the same issues with lack of playmakers.  This team is allergic to wide receivers and running backs.  Scrap heap one-year castoffs over and over again.

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

Good luck defending the indefensible.  

Christopher Johnson is trying to do this the right way.  He's trying to do it to appease fans like you who have begged for this over the years, to hire a GM and HC who like each other and work together to patiently rebuild a roster that has been demolished for a decade.  It doesn't get fixed quickly.  You're going to have to have a stomach for slow year-over-year improvement.  If not, take a break.  It's cool to drop out for a few years and rejoin when you're thinking clearly.

SAR I

[SAR I]

44 minutes ago, RevisIsland610 said:

Just stop. They squeaked by a lousy Miami team by 1 point and got stomped 22-6 by the winless bengals in game 12. They also played the horrible Giants and Washington and Buffalo's second/third string in last game of the season. The only rosters that were better were Oakland, Ravens, and Steelers. 

The Jets were underdogs in all the games.  The Steelers and Raiders were in playoff position.  The rest of the teams weren't down to 4 of 5 offensive linemen playing out of position, 4th and 5th string WR's, and a QB coming off of a debilitating muscular disease.

6-2 was a real thing.  You can try to rationalize it away if you like, but you can't.  1-7 teams don't just go 6-2 without great coaching.

SAR I

[SAR I]

42 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I don't disagree with you but he's had terrible injury luck each year he's coached.  Is it coincidence? Is it something he's doing?  I don't know but how many years can you lose waiting for it to change?

Now this I can agree with.  If there is something in Gase's approach that is leading us to soft tissue injuries at record levels, I want the guy gone tomorrow.

SAR I

[ChuckkieB]

Gazillionaire owners don't listen to fans.  They listen to their egos.  The Johnson's, through their own incompetence,  have been getting embarrassed, and during this particular stretch, humiliated, for over a decade with terrible GM and HC hires and a putrid on the field product, and when each cycle of humiliation crescendos, they are forced to act,.  Gase's level of incompetence has moved at lightning speed, which makes this cycle all the more embarrassing.  

Gase is a dead man walking, and I don't think it's going to make a difference if the Jets win or lose on Thursday.

 

[Dcat]

25 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Most coaching changes in the NFL happen because fans gripe and the media fuels the flames.  What's going on with this Gase hate (4 games last year, 3 games this year) is ridiculous, it's an all-time low in this regard.

Coaches get fired in New York when fans whine.  Coaches who fans perceive as warm and cuddly like Herm Edwards and Rex Ryan, get to stick around way beyond their welcome.  The Johnson's, if anything, have been too open to fan input.  This time they are trying to do it right.  Young offensive mind.  Experienced NFL head coach.  Give the guy a few years.  Let's see Gase with a healthy roster.  This isn't Joe Walton who was given forever with decent talent.  Could be more like Pete Carroll who was run out of town because of 'optics' and became an NCAA and NFL legend.

Not excuses.  Reasons.  There is a reason we have a terrible passing game.  We have no wide receivers.  And I don't say that because it's easier than listing the actual receivers whose names none of us know.  We literally don't have NFL players on our roster.  

Sanchez?  I was right.  The Jets didn't magically start dominating the AFC when Mark was ousted.  Those who succeeded him had the same issues with lack of playmakers.  This team is allergic to wide receivers and running backs.  Scrap heap one-year castoffs over and over again.

Christopher Johnson is trying to do this the right way.  He's trying to do it to appease fans like you who have begged for this over the years, to hire a GM and HC who like each other and work together to patiently rebuild a roster that has been demolished for a decade.  It doesn't get fixed quickly.  You're going to have to have a stomach for slow year-over-year improvement.  If not, take a break.  It's cool to drop out for a few years and rejoin when you're thinking clearly.

SAR I

Gase has never been a good coach. Even with a healthy miami team he sucked.  Chris Johnson is incompetent. "Trying to do the right thing". LOL. He wouldn't know the right thing if it hit him in the face. You claim he is trying to get a HC and GM who like each other? Then dump Gase and let the GM pick HIS guy for once. But no. The Jihnsons insist on this f'd up reporting order that pits GM against HC  every damned time. You have no idea if JD likes or despises Gase as a HC . You just make assumptions, assume they are true, and reach ridiculous conclusions .

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Every one of the 8 games the Jets played in the second half last year they were the underdog.

Every one of the 8 games the Jets played in the second half last year had a superior roster.

And we beat 6 of them.  That is quite an accomplishment for the worst roster in the NFL.

This season, we haven't faced that type of competition and we have even more injuries and at the worst possible spots.  So we judge Gase and Darnold in 3-4 weeks when the injured players return.  When our top receivers are named Crowder, Perriman, and Mims and not Berrios, Who?, and Who?

SAR I

The Dolphins?  The Bengals?  Washington?  The Giants?  The Bills backups? 

Maybe you could argue the Steelers were better but they were on their 3rd string QB.

[Maxman]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

If Darnold was playing competitive football, you could forgive the rest, but Darnold looks like he’s shot, so Gase has to take the fall for it.

This is it 100%.