Update on QW and Josh Allen

[Jetsfan4life90]

3 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Also Quinnen may be a good player, he was still a bad draft pick. However, as we pívot away from Darnold and towards Lawrence (Wilson) he’s a nice foundational piece.

This is fair. In the same way Jamal Adams probably was a bad draft pick at #6. 

That said, if Q Will becomes a dominate defensive tackle, that is worth pretty much a #3 pick. Certainly worth more than a safety. 

[addage]

5 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

My dream wish is that after we fire Gase, Jacksonville hires him as their OC.   I want to see them with a top 3 pick for the next 5 years.  The team should never have been allowed into the NFL.  @#$% them!

Sorry, it's Thanksgiving and I'm drinking.

Happy Thanksgiving all!!!!!!

We couldn't tell but have a great holiday

[Losmeister]

2 hours ago, Bronxville Jets Fan said:

Great post.  The buzz about Josh Allen has really cooled off this year.

THAT was the player i forgotto check in on so far...

good rook year....    dud this year

[jetstream23]

I was definitely critical of taking QW over Allen. Both were Top 5 prospects IMO but like many I wanted the more premium Edge rush position. That said, I’m still a fan of QW and the idea he should be traded, even for a late 1st, is ridiculous. He won’t be Aaron Donald but he’ll be better than Fletcher Cox I think. The Jets should build around him. 

[Hael]

Josh Allen PFF:69.8 (27th best end)

QW PFF: 73.6 (27th best DI)

Amusingly they’re exactly equally ranked.  Good but not great.

i would say that QW suffers a bit bc of the penalties, and bc he does not keep gap integrity (he gets baited rather easily), and that these are fixable problems so his ceiling is still very high.  I haven’t watched Josh Allen this year.

[Maxman]

13 hours ago, BCJet said:

Dupree is such a great fit here.  If we had someone with his speed an pass rush ability, it would make QW that much more effective.  John Franklin Myers has also been very good as an inside rusher on passing downs, and seems like a real find along the DL as a 3-4 DE and then pass rushing DT.  

Love him but I don't see the negotiations being easy.

[Jet Life]

I’ll gladly admit I was wrong if QW keeps it up. Would be huge for us, we have nothing on defense 

[FidelioJet]

If you can get a 1 for him you still trade him - just we need too much help to have a premium resources locked in DL...

With that said, it's nice to see him playing well and making an impact - at least he's delivering value at this point which is a major upgrade.  He'll only get better as the team gets better too.  corners that can cover, LB's that make plays, playing with leads when he can T-off on getting after the QB.  Energy behind the time when the offense can score.

[Bowles Movement]

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

If you can get a 1 for him you still trade him - just we need too much help to have a premium resources locked in DL...

With that said, it's nice to see him playing well and making an impact - at least he's delivering value at this point which is a major upgrade.  He'll only get better as the team gets better too.  corners that can cover, LB's that make plays, playing with leads when he can T-off on getting after the QB.  Energy behind the time when the offense can score.

He is a young good player with 3 yrs of reasonable salary and is a good kid that is only getting better, and you have no salary cap issues.  You absolutely do not trade him unless someone offers a top 5 draft pick.   At some point, you have to put a team together.  
If he becomes an All Pro and someone wants him in 2 yrs, maybe you get picks and trade him to prevent losing him in FA, similar to the Pats with Seymour.  But not now as we currently sit, draft and cash rich and talent poor.

[Jetlife33]

Quinen and Becton are blue chippers

[Jet Nut]

23 hours ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Sam has played with a poor supporting cast.  If he was making the simple reads and executing the easy plays where his guys are open, I'd agree with you.  Unfortunately he's looking at open receivers and not pulling the trigger.  There has been numerous videos documenting this proof.  One of the worse was when he had a wide open guy on the slant, but held on for another two seconds which led to his shoulder injury.

 

He's just not processing the information the defense is showing him.  

We harp on what opening day where while trying to run to the sideline the over head view showed Crowder was open?  Because that one play and the 2 or 3 other examples pulled out of 3 years of play prove this is a real problem?  As if 1.  he had the same overhead view and from his vantage point he could see Crowder, 2. while running for his life 3. as is every single QB who has ever played has missed seeing someone come free?  

No matter the examples of his poor play you can see where the lack of talent and success on offense as a team lead to these examples of poor play or choices.  Shame of it is we dont know for sure, is it the lack of talent around him or the lack of talent in him.  And given the consequence of his contract status and who will more than likely be available when the Jets draft hes going to be moved somewhere else and then the answer will be revealed.

 

[bitonti]

The Josh Allen is better crew can eat it

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app

[Defense Wins Championships]

We're lucky to have landed QW because after Murray/Bosa (and DK Metcalf of the 3rd) that entire 2019 draft class is looking like absolute dog crap....

I can't even find 5 players throughout the entire draft who've been more impactful than QW. 

It's still early but 2019's draft class looks really bad right now.

[DetroitRed]

The Josh Allen is better crew can eat it

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app

And the Ed Oliver crew can have the leftovers


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

If you can get a 1 for him you still trade him - just we need too much help to have a premium resources locked in DL...

With that said, it's nice to see him playing well and making an impact - at least he's delivering value at this point which is a major upgrade.  He'll only get better as the team gets better too.  corners that can cover, LB's that make plays, playing with leads when he can T-off on getting after the QB.  Energy behind the time when the offense can score.

You don’t trade a 1st round pick, a top of the draft 1st rounder, playing like he’s playing for a lower pick than the one you used.  To draft a player you pray will play as well, contribute as much as QW does.  What sense does that make?  Create a hole in the DL to maybe help another position?  

[Gastineau Lives]

12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You don’t trade a 1st round pick, a top of the draft 1st rounder, playing like he’s playing for a lower pick than the one you used.  To draft a player you pray will play as well, contribute as much as QW does.  What sense does that make?  Create a hole in the DL to maybe help another position?  

This is what I wanted to say but couldn't find a good Let's Make A Deal gif.

I swear some people imagine swimming in a pool full of draft picks like Scrooge McDuck.

[Larz]

More importantly, how’s his Twitter?

[Drums]

Interestingly enough, how is Chase Young doing? I would take Becton over him any day of the week at this point. 

[jetstream23]

What QW is doing is even more impressive when you consider that offenses really have nothing to worry about besides him on D. This is what makes getting a top Edge rusher and having at least one bonafide lockdown CB so imperative.

If the rest of the D could simply be average then having those 3 pieces could make the Jets a Top 12 D. 

[DepressedJetsFan23]

QW is an example of why people should not go crazy over draft picks in their first year. We need to give these guys time. 

[Savage69]

4 minutes ago, DepressedJetsFan23 said:

QW is an example of why people should not go crazy over draft picks in their first year. We need to give these guys time. 

On the Jet post game show both Bart and Chad said if Q gets some help like a edge rusher it will get him off the double teams he always faces and he could be the player he was in college..

[FidelioJet]

4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

You don’t trade a 1st round pick, a top of the draft 1st rounder, playing like he’s playing for a lower pick than the one you used.  To draft a player you pray will play as well, contribute as much as QW does.  What sense does that make?  Create a hole in the DL to maybe help another position?  

Eh...we’ve proven over and over again that we can be competent at DL with 4th and 5th rounders.  

It’s much harder to find WR, T and TE’s in the later rounds..  Those are they players we need more of - to help support our new young QB.

Look, I get what you’re saying and would normally agree - in fact I would strongly agree. - but the upcoming next two years need to 100% about the new QB.  Give him every opportunity and then he’ll be able to carry an offense without all those resources.

It’s def a risk that whoever we take in the first can bust but, IMHO that risk you would have to take...

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Eh...we’ve proven over and over again that we can be competent at DL with 4th and 5th rounders.  

It’s much harder to find WR, T and TE’s in the later rounds..  Those are they players we need more of - to help support our new young QB.

Look, I get what you’re saying and would normally agree - in fact I would strongly agree. - but the upcoming next two years need to 100% about the new QB.  Give him every opportunity and then he’ll be able to carry an offense without all those resources.

It’s def a risk that whoever we take in the first can bust but, IMHO that risk you would have to take...

Eh no.  You dont trade the 3rd overall pick for the 20th overall pick.  You dont take a step down with regards to the DL. dont create a hole on DL just because.  How do you know the trade you make, for the pick you make brings back anyone who fills a need?  

We're going to have more than over $80 mil in cap space along with extra picks.  We can sign more than enough help to the offense with FA signings and through the draft.  

I dont get the need to give away talent to try and fill every need in one draft.  We really need 11 picks instead of 10 with our best defensive player traded?  I dont get the constant need to trade away our best players.  We dont hit enough on draft picks to keep giving away the ones we did hit on,

[Lizard King]

On 11/26/2020 at 9:10 AM, The Crusher said:

Like someone mention earlier once we have a legitimate edge guy or even two Q will blossom. If he can be 75% the disruptive force Sapp was he will live up to his draft slot. Nice to see some young Jet talent improving for a change. 

He realized his guns were his legs and started working them out. 

[nycdan]

30 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Eh...we’ve proven over and over again that we can be competent at DL with 4th and 5th rounders.  

It’s much harder to find WR, T and TE’s in the later rounds..  Those are they players we need more of - to help support our new young QB.

Look, I get what you’re saying and would normally agree - in fact I would strongly agree. - but the upcoming next two years need to 100% about the new QB.  Give him every opportunity and then he’ll be able to carry an offense without all those resources.

It’s def a risk that whoever we take in the first can bust but, IMHO that risk you would have to take...

The best WRs, OGs and TEs in the league are often drafted late 1st, 2nd or even later.  You can find them in later rounds, you just have to draft better than the Jets GMs have in the past decade.  Travis Kelce - 4th round.  George Kittle - 5th round.  Joe Thuney - 3rd round.  Stefon Diggs - 5th round.  And so on.

I am fully against trading a young, ascending player for draft picks unless it's specific to moving up to get a FQB, which won't be our issue this year.  The Adams trade made sense because it was a severe overpay by SEA and he was a headache for the team.  Quinnen appears to be a perfectly solid team player and at this point, we need to collect great players, not dispose of them for more lottery picks. 

We have PLENTY of draft capital to help the offense.  We do not need to weaken the defense at this point to help it more.  We should be able to sign at least one premium WR or OL in FA and draft at least two if not three of (WR, OL, RB, TE) with the remaining four picks in the 1st 3 rounds.  You give this team Robinson or Thuney and one other mid-level FA, and 3 more high draft picks on the offense and you've done your part to set up a good foundation.  You still need to stop the other team once in a while.

[Beerfish]

Quinnen is playing much much better this year.  Interior DTs still do no help you win in this league.  The Rams did not beat Tampa because aaron donald got zeros across the board. 

Also you get way less holding calls as an interior guy where you are hidden in the mayhem of the lines vs an edge guy.

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Eh no.  You dont trade the 3rd overall pick for the 20th overall pick.  You dont take a step down with regards to the DL. dont create a hole on DL just because.  How do you know the trade you make, for the pick you make brings back anyone who fills a need?  

We're going to have more than over $80 mil in cap space along with extra picks.  We can sign more than enough help to the offense with FA signings and through the draft.  

I dont get the need to give away talent to try and fill every need in one draft.  We really need 11 picks instead of 10 with our best defensive player traded?  I dont get the constant need to trade away our best players.  We dont hit enough on draft picks to keep giving away the ones we did hit on,

So, let me ask you this....

Let's say for arguments sake.

Would you trade, right now....The Seattle pick for QW if we didn't have him?

go ahead....I know the answer....

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, nycdan said:

The best WRs, OGs and TEs in the league are often drafted late 1st, 2nd or even later.  You can find them in later rounds, you just have to draft better than the Jets GMs have in the past decade.  Travis Kelce - 4th round.  George Kittle - 5th round.  Joe Thuney - 3rd round.  Stefon Diggs - 5th round.  And so on.

I am fully against trading a young, ascending player for draft picks unless it's specific to moving up to get a FQB, which won't be our issue this year.  The Adams trade made sense because it was a severe overpay by SEA and he was a headache for the team.  Quinnen appears to be a perfectly solid team player and at this point, we need to collect great players, not dispose of them for more lottery picks. 

We have PLENTY of draft capital to help the offense.  We do not need to weaken the defense at this point to help it more.  We should be able to sign at least one premium WR or OL in FA and draft at least two if not three of (WR, OL, RB, TE) with the remaining four picks in the 1st 3 rounds.  You give this team Robinson or Thuney and one other mid-level FA, and 3 more high draft picks on the offense and you've done your part to set up a good foundation.  You still need to stop the other team once in a while.

I have to be honest...forget about QW for a minute - but you guys still haven't figured it out...and it's amazing that you all seem to be legitimate fans that watch this team....

Defense doesn't matter...especially at least until you have a QB.  If you want SUSTAINABLE success in this league you need a FQB...NEED it.  once you have a FQB you will be competitive for a decade.  And the fact that some of you have watched this game for so long and don't understand that every FQB don't start out that way....they develop into one...

I don't care if we lose every game the next two years - but that the OFFENSE continues to get better...that the QB continues to get better....we're not winning a SB in the next two years...we don't need a DT....we need our QB to get good.  a DT is NOT going to make our QB better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why is that so hard to understand?

[nycdan]

15 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I have to be honest...forget about QW for a minute - but you guys still haven't figured it out...and it's amazing that you all seem to be legitimate fans that watch this team....

Defense doesn't matter...especially at least until you have a QB.  If you want SUSTAINABLE success in this league you need a FQB...NEED it.  once you have a FQB you will be competitive for a decade.  And the fact that some of you have watched this game for so long and don't understand that every FQB don't start out that way....they develop into one...

I don't care if we lose every game the next two years - but that the OFFENSE continues to get better...that the QB continues to get better....we're not winning a SB in the next two years...we don't need a DT....we need our QB to get good.  a DT is NOT going to make our QB better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why is that so hard to understand?

In a land of opinions, you seem to be rather certain yours is the only true one.  It's an opinion on how to build a winning team.  I have a different one.  And everyone on this board has one as well, as do each of the 32 GMs in the league.  Oddly enough, the guys who get paid to do this for a living don't all agree with you or with each other.

Going all in on offense and tossing away any good defensive player you have for more picks for the offense is basically a trash strategy.  No team in the NFL does it.  The Raiders traded Khalil Mack for picks, and then turned around and took a DE with their 1st pick in that next draft.

I'm happy to debate this, but I'm not interested in being told I can't understand your truths.  Because the real truth is, I just don't fully agree with them.  If you are locked in on this, then I'll move on.

I know a Jack Nicholson meme is coming...SMH

[JXN_JET]

On 11/26/2020 at 7:15 AM, Jetster said:

We have NO ONE on the edge to worry about. Bud Dupree would help that! 

Bud Dupree on one side and maybe someone like Ryan Kerrigan on the other. Kerrigan to a cheap one year deal would be nice until we could draft someone with one of our first in 2022.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

So, let me ask you this....

Let's say for arguments sake.

Would you trade, right now....The Seattle pick for QW if we didn't have him?

go ahead....I know the answer....

Would I trade a 20-30 rick for QW? 

Isnt that the point, its a loss for whoever is trading QW?  

I said this from the first post, the Jets trading QW for a lower 1st round pick to maybe fill another hole has too much risk involved and more than likely you'd be lucky to wind up on equal footing, more than likely losing ground in that trade.  When was the last time we picked up an equal to QW in the last of the 1st round?  

[FidelioJet]

13 hours ago, nycdan said:

In a land of opinions, you seem to be rather certain yours is the only true one.  It's an opinion on how to build a winning team.  I have a different one.  And everyone on this board has one as well, as do each of the 32 GMs in the league.  Oddly enough, the guys who get paid to do this for a living don't all agree with you or with each other.

Going all in on offense and tossing away any good defensive player you have for more picks for the offense is basically a trash strategy.  No team in the NFL does it.  The Raiders traded Khalil Mack for picks, and then turned around and took a DE with their 1st pick in that next draft.

I'm happy to debate this, but I'm not interested in being told I can't understand your truths.  Because the real truth is, I just don't fully agree with them.  If you are locked in on this, then I'll move on.

I know a Jack Nicholson meme is coming...SMH

Look, I get

But yes, I believe in this situation there is no other way to to do right. 
Will it work? I don’t know.  Could another way work? Sure  

But what will give this team the BEST chance at sustained success is to develop a FQB.  
The best way to do that is support him in every way possible early.  I believe that to be an indisputable fact. 

[riggy001]

Put a true pass rusher next to him, and he will take it to another level next yr. Imagine having an Olb that can generate 10 plus sacks, to take some of the attention off him.

[Creepy Lurker]

On 11/26/2020 at 10:14 AM, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Sam has played with a poor supporting cast.  If he was making the simple reads and executing the easy plays where his guys are open, I'd agree with you.  Unfortunately he's looking at open receivers and not pulling the trigger.  There has been numerous videos documenting this proof.  One of the worse was when he had a wide open guy on the slant, but held on for another two seconds which led to his shoulder injury.

 

He's just not processing the information the defense is showing him.  

I honestly think Sam has just mentally checked out and needs a change of scenery. Would you look forward to coming to work everyday if it was a demoralizing sh*tshow? He is basically the janitor at Taco Bell right now after a burrito eating contest and absolutely HATES his job. I would argue that would be less of a mess than the Jets.