Cimini: Mims may be on the bubble

[genot]

1 minute ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

I hope to the Football Gods that Ben Roethlisberger finally starts to break down @ 40 years old this year and really struggles in 2021 and this way I can bump up this thread and really laugh at Claypool fans once Claypool has a crap 2021. 

Watch the highlights of them last year. Claypool plays faster, separates more. Who the QB is doesn't matter. It's what he's doing with who's covering him that matters.And he's over 30lbs heavier. 

[Defense Wins Championships]

9 minutes ago, genot said:

Watch the highlights of them last year. Claypool plays faster, separates more. Who the QB is doesn't matter. It's what he's doing with who's covering him that matters.And he's over 30lbs heavier. 

Yeah right. The "QB" doesn't matter. 

Tell that to Tom Brady who made a bunch of career nothings into slot receiver stats. 

The QB doesn't matter? Both Adam Gase and Sam Darnold would disagree with you. 

Denzel Mims was wide open time and time again and both Joe Flacco and Sam Darnold couldn't find him. 

Now just imagine him surrounded by Tomlin/Roethlisberger/JuJu/Johnson/Ebron instead of "Gase/Sam/Flacco/Perriman/Gore/Herndon" ?

Some of you are extreme in regards to how you judge Rookie WR production...

"Who the QB is for receivers doesn't matter" is probably the biggest hot take I've ever had to acknowledge dating back to 2007 since my time as a poster on Jets forums. Mind boggling to me. Just ask Andy Reid going from "Alex Smith" to PATRICK MAHOMES if QB play "doesn't matter". 

[JetsFanShawn]

if they put zach wilson and denzle mims together next yeaer dangerius  

[Defense Wins Championships]

12 minutes ago, genot said:

Who the QB is doesn't matter.

One more thing about who the QB is "doesn't matter". 

Please explain to me why Randy Moss during 13 games as an Oakland Raider only recorded 42 catches for 533 yards and 3 TDs in 2006 to 98 receptions, 1,493 receiving yards and 23 TDs the following year of 2007 with TOM BRADY (career high in TDs).

If you're going to sit here and tell me QBs don't matter for WRs? And that Mims wasn't destroyed by the worst starting QB in all of Football Sam Darnold (42nd QB Rating) and an absolute washed up Joe Flacco (where is he now?) well then I have nothing to say to you anymore in regards to Football talk man. 

[genot]

4 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

One more thing about who the QB is "doesn't matter". 

Please explain to me why Randy Moss during 13 games as an Oakland Raider only recorded 42 catches for 533 yards and 3 TDs in 2006 to 98 receptions, 1,493 receiving yards and 23 TDs the following year of 2007 with TOM BRADY (career high in TDs).

If you're going to sit here and tell me QBs don't matter for WRs? And that Mims wasn't destroyed by the worst starting QB in all of Football Sam Darnold (42nd QB Rating) and an absolute washed up Joe Flacco (where is he now?) well then I have nothing to say to you anymore in regards to Football talk man. 

Understand my point. Of course QB's matter when your looking at production That's not the reason i asked you to look at the tape. It was about what the receivers we're doing before and after the catch.

[kdels62]

30 minutes ago, genot said:

Not really. He had some more receptions with Josh. But ypc we're the same. Slightly better. I don't think enough to make an argument about QB play. In Carolina they had him running nore routes. Result. More receptions, but close to 4yds less per reception. 

The argument is that Darnold is the same or slightly worse than McCown or Bridgewater based on the production of a shared receiver. That’s pretty easy to note.

 

[genot]

18 minutes ago, JetsFanShawn said:

if they put zach wilson and denzle mims together next yeaer dangerius  

Im in a bad mood today.

[genot]

1 minute ago, kdels62 said:

The argument is that Darnold is the same or slightly worse than McCown or Bridgewater based on the production of a shared receiver. That’s pretty easy to note.

 

Thats not the argument im making at all.  

[More Cowbell]

2 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Would Claypool been able to prove he belonged if drafted as a Jet last year on a 2-14 crap offense? The answer is no. 

Denzel Mims destroyed Claypool during their final 3 NCAA seasons in terms of Receptions/Receiving Yards/TDs;

and if Denzel Mims was drafted by Pittsburgh he would've looked awesome too (and Claypool wouldn't have as a "Jet').

 

Claypool wouldn't be behind V. Smith on the depth chart. I mean wtf? Mims is wearing out his welcome. A blind man can see that. 

[kdels62]

2 hours ago, genot said:

Thats not the argument im making at all.  

That’s argument I was making. It’s also the conceit that goes along with Darnold not having weapons. That one of his weapons was better with someone else throwing him the ball is evidence against that. 

[genot]

2 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

That’s argument I was making. It’s also the conceit that goes along with Darnold not having weapons. That one of his weapons was better with someone else throwing him the ball is evidence against that. 

Okay. I get your point. 

[Biggs]

3 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

One more thing about who the QB is "doesn't matter". 

Please explain to me why Randy Moss during 13 games as an Oakland Raider only recorded 42 catches for 533 yards and 3 TDs in 2006 to 98 receptions, 1,493 receiving yards and 23 TDs the following year of 2007 with TOM BRADY (career high in TDs).

If you're going to sit here and tell me QBs don't matter for WRs? And that Mims wasn't destroyed by the worst starting QB in all of Football Sam Darnold (42nd QB Rating) and an absolute washed up Joe Flacco (where is he now?) well then I have nothing to say to you anymore in regards to Football talk man. 

He didn’t give a crap in Oakland.  Tim Brown and Larry Fitzgerald put up huge numbers with a lot of JAG QBs.  

[jamesr]

On 8/7/2021 at 5:46 PM, Defense Wins Championships said:

 

Please (one of you Denzel Mims critics) correct me where I'm wrong and also please tell me which Rookie WRs would've flourished under those crap 2-14 Adam Gase circumstances. 

He's not playing with the third team based on last year. He's playing with the third team based on this year.

The offense that Gase used was more suited to Mims' strengths than the one that Saleh is using. So Mims is having to learn new stuff that he's not had to do much before.

This might take longer than the current TC for him to adapt to. If he shows willing and shows development he'll be kept on the team; if he shows willing but not development then it'll be TBC for him. If he doesn't show willing then they'll look to move on from him (likely via trade).

My guess is that he'll be given time to develop but may see less playing time this year as a result; he'll then have to step up in the offseason next year. 

[Chrebetfan80]

On 8/7/2021 at 3:01 PM, derp said:

Agree. He definitely struggles to separate and looks like he lacks change of direction at times. I don't think playing at Baylor and not having a particularly diverse route tree did him any favors - but he was also much more physically dominant in college. Didn't matter so much if he separated. He's absolutely a plus athlete but not a complete freak at the NFL level where I think he can consistently physically dominate guys at the catch point.

But the big thing is he does have change of direction skills - they just don't show up on the field yet. If he busts his ass he can really unlock that part of his game, fit what the scheme needs him to do, and push for play time. I'm all for the coaching staff pushing him to move along and get that part of his game rolling to earn time on the field. It's okay for guys with more physical talent to have higher expectations. If he doesn't get it going then maybe he's just one of those guys who it'll always be a what could have been thing - but I'm glad they're not just letting him coast on back shoulder balls and contested plays.

 

thats why i always felt like he had a chance, he was a big physical target with excellent change of direction measurements.  Unique combo.  It sounds like so far he just hasn't put together how to work like a pro yet.  I know he was training a lot on his speed and health in the offseason, but I did not hear about him really working with any WR' coaches like a lot of the top guys have been doing every offseason.  Just for an example, Justin Jefferson has been working with the same guy that Jarvis Landry, Diggs, and now Tyreek hill use.  But in particular those types of trainers are working release moves, route stems, break points, thats more of what he needs to work on. 

[derp]

2 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

thats why i always felt like he had a chance, he was a big physical target with excellent change of direction measurements.  Unique combo.  It sounds like so far he just hasn't put together how to work like a pro yet.  I know he was training a lot on his speed and health in the offseason, but I did not hear about him really working with any WR' coaches like a lot of the top guys have been doing every offseason.  Just for an example, Justin Jefferson has been working with the same guy that Jarvis Landry, Diggs, and now Tyreek hill use.  But in particular those types of trainers are working release moves, route stems, break points, thats more of what he needs to work on. 

Great, great stuff. Definitely needs to stay healthy too, of course, but this is absolutely the next step for him. Hopefully he gets there, I was a big fan of his for the exact same reasons you outlined. Almost unfortunately seems like the kind of profile (work habits wise) of a guy who puts it together at his second stop or not at all. Hopefully being around a vet like Davis and getting pushed by this staff helps.

[kevinc855]

another JD bust

[Jetluv58]

Mims isn’t getting traded. After a couple of inevitable hammies or blown knees in the WR ranks, we’ll be damn glad we kept him. Mim’s the word. 

[Chrebetfan80]

41 minutes ago, derp said:

Great, great stuff. Definitely needs to stay healthy too, of course, but this is absolutely the next step for him. Hopefully he gets there, I was a big fan of his for the exact same reasons you outlined. Almost unfortunately seems like the kind of profile (work habits wise) of a guy who puts it together at his second stop or not at all. Hopefully being around a vet like Davis and getting pushed by this staff helps.

I agree with that, so far that is my fear as well, seems like a guy that will put it together somewhere else, but im hoping im wrong as its so early in the process for him. 

I think Davis and Cole will help alot, but also a guy like moore.  Moores work ethic is insane, and hes got the type of personality to take mims and push him to succeed.  Fortunately for us fans, Mims is in an excellent situation to make the strides he needs to to be successful.  I almost feel like if he doesnt get it done here, it may not ever turn out good for him. 

[sec101row23]

16 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

I agree with that, so far that is my fear as well, seems like a guy that will put it together somewhere else, but im hoping im wrong as its so early in the process for him. 

I think Davis and Cole will help alot, but also a guy like moore.  Moores work ethic is insane, and hes got the type of personality to take mims and push him to succeed.  Fortunately for us fans, Mims is in an excellent situation to make the strides he needs to to be successful.  I almost feel like if he doesnt get it done here, it may not ever turn out good for him. 

Agreed.   I feel like when it comes to route running, it’s a more natural and innate ability than a learned ability.   Sure, you can teach technique and improve someone, but the really good ones seem to just have a feel for how to run the route and create the separation.   There’s a certain timing and technique to setting up the defender, then there is the feel of how they speed up and slow down during the route.   

[kmnj]

joes plan we keep hearing is building through the draft-his first draft appears to be netting one good player in Becton who has question marks as well-you cant build through the draft if you only hit one or two players while letting players go as well.

This years draft I believe Moore is the real deal but he is one guy but as everybody knows Joe is tied at the hip to wilson-if Wilson is not a  true franchise QB Joe is the same as Mac and Izadick which is horrible for us jet fans.

I hope Joe made the right call with Wilson and hope he becomes a star but I dont see it myself

[Sonny Werblin]

They will put Mims at #6 in the depth chart before they will ever release him. And if he is #6 and the Jets don't feel he is a fit for the system or will not reach his potential with them, for whatever reason, they will trade him before they will ever release him.

[Alka]

26 minutes ago, kmnj said:

joes plan we keep hearing is building through the draft-his first draft appears to be netting one good player in Becton who has question marks as well-you cant build through the draft if you only hit one or two players while letting players go as well.

This years draft I believe Moore is the real deal but he is one guy but as everybody knows Joe is tied at the hip to wilson-if Wilson is not a  true franchise QB Joe is the same as Mac and Izadick which is horrible for us jet fans.

I hope Joe made the right call with Wilson and hope he becomes a star but I dont see it myself

Zach Wilson doesn't need to be a star, he just needs to be good.  If he ends up being good, then this year he will have his ups and downs, and will not look very good at times.  But that is what happens with rookie quarterbacks.  We won't know if he will be a star until year #3.  If he sucks, we will know by year #2.  Year #1 will be tough, no matter how good he ends up being.

[Columbia Jet Fan]

https://nypost.com/2021/08/08/denzel-mims-could-still-be-red-zone-threat-for-jets-this-season/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site buttons&utm_campaign=site buttons

 

First off, it is premature to say Mims is on the roster bubble. Sources say the Jets still see Mims as a big part of the 2021 team and are not even close to considering moving on from him. Could that change in three weeks when rosters are cut to 53? Maybe, but I would still label it highly unlikely.

The 2020 second-round pick had a rough spring. He contracted food poisoning that caused him to lose 15 pounds after two weeks of vomiting. That led to him missing nearly all of the Jets spring program, setting him back in learning the new offense. While Mims was out, he was passed on the depth chart by rookie Elijah Moore and Keelan Cole, who both had outstanding springs.

Mims opened up training camp working mainly with the second and third teams, which raised some eyebrows. But he was on the field with Zach Wilson under center during Saturday’s Green and White scrimmage. He had a strong week of practice last week and should see more time with the starters this week. It did sound like offensive coordinator Mike LaFleur was trying to light a fire under Mims last week in his comments about Mims getting more opportunities when he shows he deserves them. In the next breath, LaFleur said he liked how Mims had responded last week.

Another thing to consider with Mims and his role on this team is his size. Mims is 6-foot-3, 207 pounds. If the Jets go with Corey Davis (6-3), Moore (5-10) and Jamison Crowder (5-9) as their starters, they are going to need size in some formations, particularly in the red zone. Mims is the best candidate to be that guy to team with Davis in those situations.

So, Mims is behind because of his spring absence, but don’t be surprised if he catches up in the next few weeks and has a big role this season.

[JetsFanShawn]

23 hours ago, genot said:

Watch the highlights of them last year. Claypool plays faster, separates more. Who the QB is doesn't matter. It's what he's doing with who's covering him that matters.And he's over 30lbs heavier. 

i hop zach wilson got the wepons for his style of playing 

[Claymation]

He could still be on the bubble, but Mims is on the 2nd team.

[Defense Wins Championships]

On 8/7/2021 at 2:32 PM, Defense Wins Championships said:

https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/NYJ

Wake me up when Denzel Mims is listed as our 4th/5th/6th WR on our Depth Chart or better yet please let me know when Robert Saleh says so himself. 

Because Cimini and others are paid to create click bait hot takes full of nothing but HACK reports (and you Jets fans buy into it each and every time).

Robert Saleh our Head Coach has already made it known he's spreading out the 1's, 2's and 3's snap counts 100% evenly but yet you guys rather listen to beat writing hacks instead of Coach Saleh himself ?

Quoted for TRUTH. 

Like I said. So many fans listen to beat writing HACKS who are paid to create "training camp drama" and what's even worse, is you buy stock into it. 

Robert Saleh stated multiple times how his WRs were all getting the same amount of reps at 1, 2, 3 but yet not only wouldn't you believe me (DWC) but you wouldn't believe Saleh but instead you believed "Cimini"? Smh. 

The official depth chart has now been released. And 6'3 4.3 Denzel Mims is not and I repeat is not listed as our "4th/5th/6th" WR on the depth chart and is not "on the verge of being cut". 

What happened? You guys believed a hack know as Cimini? ???

[Defense Wins Championships]

On 8/7/2021 at 12:58 PM, Jet_Engine1 said:

Being in a fight for the 5th or 6th WR spot is literally the definition of "being on the bubble". He doesn't return kicks or punts, and Cole and Davis do what he's supposed to do, but better and are more proven. 

 

He may not make the roster. Thats not a stretch. Hes at best the 5th WR right now, but Barrios returns punts.

Kids in a fight, I hope he realizes it. 

What are you talking about? 

The official depth charts have just been released today. 

And Denzel Mims isn't listed as no "4th, 5th or 6th" WR...

[TokyoJetsFan]

dupe

[Defense Wins Championships]

On 8/7/2021 at 1:09 PM, Defense Wins Championships said:

I think it's funny how you're falling for a click bait article written by a known hack ?

"Robert Saleh Sheds Light on Jets Wide Receiver ‘Rotation"

Robert Saleh says: “Yeah so he’s working through some things,” the Jets HC said regarding Mims, “but him coming back [from illness] and working into the groove, all those receivers are part of a rotation, so you see guys, 1s, 2s, 3s and if I look at the rep count it’s darn-near even all the way across the board

to give all those guys the same opportunities and the looks and to be able to put them in positions where we know that they’re going to be able to get the ball based on a play. Denzel Mims is a very talented young man and it’s going to piece together for him, we just gotta keep working with him.”

Hey chief. You keep on falling for your favorite little fake beat writing media hacks all you like ? while I'll continue to believe coach ROBERT SALEH himself. 

@Untouchable

Told ya so. 

Next time don't believe these beat writing media driven HACKS who are paid $$$ in order to write hot takes and trick sports fans into falling for media driven lies. 

I stopped falling for and believing beat writing media hacks when I was 15 years old of over 20 years ago...

 

If you guys don't understand why Denzel Mims wasn't allowed to look like "Chase Claypool" alongside of...

A ) Adam Gase. 

B.) Dowel Loggains. 

C.) Sam Darnold (42nd QB Rating and dead last/worst starting QB). 

D.) Joe Flacco (completely washed up)

E.) Frank Gore (washed up and out of the league).

F.) Opposite of Perriman (former 1st round BUST).

G.) An atrocious O-Line.

H.) 2-14 Adam Gase nightmare. 

Well then there's no point of spelling it out anyone and I'll just allow you to act and pretend as if Chase Claypool would've "FEASTED" without HOF Mike Tomlin, HOF Ben Roethlisberger and 3 strong pass catching weapons in JuJu Smith-Schuster, Johnson and Ebron. 

No. Chase Claypool wouldn't have looked "good" as a Jet. 

[Snook]

34 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Quoted for TRUTH. 

Like I said. So many fans listen to beat writing HACKS who are paid to create "training camp drama" and what's even worse, is you buy stock into it. 

Robert Saleh stated multiple times how his WRs were all getting the same amount of reps at 1, 2, 3 but yet not only wouldn't you believe me (DWC) but you wouldn't believe Saleh but instead you believed "Cimini"? Smh. 

The official depth chart has now been released. And 6'3 4.3 Denzel Mims is not and I repeat is not listed as our "4th/5th/6th" WR on the depth chart and is not "on the verge of being cut". 

What happened? You guys believed a hack know as Cimini? ???

It’s not the official depth chart.

[Defense Wins Championships]

10 minutes ago, Snook said:

It’s not the official depth chart.

Ok it's the unofficial one but yet no signs of Denzel Mims being released. No signs of him as a #4/#5/#6 WR either. 

Why? 

Because coach Saleh isn't stupid enough to quit on a super talented player who's a physical 6'3 WR with 4.3 speed who also led the 2019 NCAA Country with contested catches in traffic and all because "Adam Gase says so" after only 1 rookie season....

Denzel Mims final 3 years @ Baylor:

37 Games.

182 Receptions.

2,921 Receiving yards.

16.0 yards per catch.

28 TD Receptions.

• Chase Claypool final 3 years @ ND:

37 Games.

145 Receptions.

2,078 Receiving yards.

14.3 yards per catch.

19 TD Receptions.

He's every bit as talented as Claypool and the only difference (outside of an off-season hamstring injury without an off-season) is Denzel Mims wasn't drafted in WR heaven but was drafted into WR hell and Claypool wasn't because Chase Claypool was as a Rookie was blessed with HOF Mike Tomlin, HOF Ben Roethlisberger and hidden behind 3 explosive pass catching weapons in JuJu Smith-Schuster, Johnson and Eric Ebron (and Denzel Mims wasn't) 

Denzel Mims is going to feast this year alongside of an aggressive Wilson, Michael Carter, Corey Davis, Elijah Moore, Jamison Crowder, a beast O-Line and more importantly; LaFleur as OC.

[Snook]

5 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Ok it's the unofficial one but yet no signs of Denzel Mims being released. No signs of him as a #4/#5/#6 WR either. 

Why? 

Because coach Saleh isn't stupid enough to quit on a super talented player who's a physical 6'3 WR with 4.3 speed who also led the 2019 NCAA Country with contested catches in traffic and all because "Adam Gase says so" after only 1 rookie season....

Denzel Mims final 3 years @ Baylor:

37 Games.

182 Receptions.

2,921 Receiving yards.

16.0 yards per catch.

28 TD Receptions.

• Chase Claypool final 3 years @ ND:

37 Games.

145 Receptions.

2,078 Receiving yards.

14.3 yards per catch.

19 TD Receptions.

He's every bit as talented as Claypool and the only difference (outside of an off-season hamstring injury without an off-season) is Denzel Mims wasn't drafted in WR heaven but was drafted into WR hell and Claypool wasn't because Chase Claypool was as a Rookie was blessed with HOF Mike Tomlin, HOF Ben Roethlisberger and hidden behind 3 explosive pass catching weapons in JuJu Smith-Schuster, Johnson and Eric Ebron (and Denzel Mims wasn't) 

Denzel Mims is going to feast this year alongside of an aggressive Wilson, Michael Carter, Corey Davis, Elijah Moore, Jamison Crowder, a beast O-Line and more importantly; LaFleur as OC.

What , besides the first five words , has that got to do with what I posted ?

[CSNY]

Mims has wasaaasy to much talent to be cut this year Now if our coaches are really as good as we think they are LaFluer should be able to find something he is excellent at and incorporate it specifically for Mims even if it’s not technically part of his “ system “. Then after he gets confidence give him more and more of the system until he knows it all and hopefully we then will have our next Al Toon. It’s all up to Mims if he wants to be great and put the work in to be great or just be a JAG 

[Prodigal Syndicate]

Weird.

 

This wouldn't line up with all the expert analysis of the people on this forum of Douglas first draft 

[Bull]

Good lawd, he’s not getting cut and will see year 3 too in all likelihood.  It’s bad for GMs to whiff on 2nd round picks but it’s even worse to trade one after 1 year to see his actually figure it out elsewhere.  
 

Unless it’s so apparent he’s a bum of epic proportions I think he’s guaranteed a roster spot.