Brown expected to be out, Fant to LT

[greenwave81]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

To me, this is all on JD - for not having a back-up plan for Becton prior to camp.

TBH,  The OL should have been built this off-season with the assumption Becton won't be available.  And if he actually worked out - great.  

But relying on him was a big miss.

LOL...many of us wanted, or at least saw the highly probable need, to take an OT early in the last draft.  Most of the time we were shouted down saying it was a misallocation of resources and picks.

Let's pray Mitchell is the 2022 version of Fabini who stepped into a starting role at RT  for Parcells.

[Sperm Edwards]

20 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Man we have bad luck. Brown has been healthy the last half a decade and then hits IR after 1 PS game with us.

Fant needs to be paid, it would be incredibly stupid to allow him to walk at the end of the year. You are getting dangerously close to Fant telling us to F off

Fant isn't telling the Jets to F off. The Jets were the one team in the NFL who signed him to a starter's contract. Under that contract he had one bleh season and one good season. 

There are also still starting tackles sitting around in FA right now. There's more supply than demand. 

I like Fant just fine. The fact is he's also a 30 year-old T with an injury-prone past, only 2 years starting under his belt, only one of those two was he decent, and is too often a liability in the run game. You can pencil him in for at least a couple missed starts, and he also had - when he was younger and theoretically less-injury prone - a full missed season. The year before the Jets signed him he lost a camp competition to a RT who then had to take a year-minimum contract (and eventual position change) after that season.

After his first year here most thought he sucked & should've been cut before more guaranteed $ kicked in. Now lots of those same people are licking his face. 

There's also the possibility he's communicated he wants way more than he's worth. What if his agent's already communicated to Douglas that he wants a $20MM/year extension with 3 seasons fully guaranteed, and that's the reason the Jets haven't amended his current deal? 

He's under contract and the team can always tag him if they so desire. He's got more leverage than he had a week ago, but until the team is 100% certain Brown is out for the season I don't see them making him an offer after passing on that all spring/summer.

I'm with you that he's got more leverage than he had days ago, but I don't know that it's so easy to resolve.

[greenwave81]

22 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

What team is trading either of their starting tackles in August for a mid-round pick? Never mind it was and is unnecessary.

Truth is what they're starting right now, with two LTs injured, is far from unusual: last year's starting LT plus a mid-round rookie RT. 

Here's the other reality of the situation this offseason. There was no panic to sign another tackle, despite some warranted uncertainty with Becton, because there was an unusual number of prior-season starters flooding free agency.

There are still some available today ffs: 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/tackle/available/

Great post.

Personally, I would have rathered left Fant at LT after the Becton injury, and took a flyer on a 'few' (1 or 2) of that OT list to fill in at RT for what it cost to sign the 37 y.o. Brown.  Signing a replacement LT is certainly more expensive than signing a potential replacement RT.

[greenwave81]

Maybe a bit off topic?

Let's see what transpires on Sunday, but if Mitchell struggles, and McDermott is who we know he is and also struggles, would they consider moving AVT to RT (where he has college experience) and move either Herbig or Feeney to RG?

[freestater]

31 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

lots of those same people are licking his face.

[RichardTodd27]

Not sure why we don’t sign a RT. A few good ones still on the market (D. Williams, Shell, Massie….)

[Sammybighead]

42 minutes ago, RichardTodd27 said:

Not sure why we don’t sign a RT. A few good ones still on the market (D. Williams, Shell, Massie….)

They have to IR brown first, no?

[FidelioJet]

13 hours ago, greenwave81 said:

LOL...many of us wanted, or at least saw the highly probable need, to take an OT early in the last draft.  Most of the time we were shouted down saying it was a misallocation of resources and picks.

Let's pray Mitchell is the 2022 version of Fabini who stepped into a starting role at RT  for Parcells.

Why the LOL?  

[Jimmy 2 Times]

JD set this team up with three starter quality left tackles and invested a mid round pick in a rookie.

It's purely "Jet" luck we're already down to only 1.  If you look at other team's rosters, rarely any will come close to what JD put together.  

Imo, they'll be fine.  It's basically the same LT and center from last year with an upgrade at both guard positions.  The only question mark is the rookie and hey, JD brought in a bunch of tight ends that can help out.   This place is chicken little incarnate. 

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

JD set this team up with three starter quality left tackles and invested a mid round pick in a rookie.

It's purely "Jet" luck we're already down to only 1.  If you look at other team's rosters, rarely any will come close to what JD put together.  

Imo, they'll be fine.  It's basically the same LT and center from last year with an upgrade at both guard positions.  The only question mark is the rookie and hey, JD brought in a bunch of tight ends that can help out.   This place is chicken little incarnate. 

Not that simple.  Becton was never going to play - that's the problem here.  Joe should have not been counting on him.  

Duane Brown going down sucks - but JD was stuck having to over pay a 37 year old LT - because he counted on Becton (that was the big mistake)

I think the idea that he has actually put this many resources into the OL and we'll be starting a rookie, 4th round RT from a small school is worrisome.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Not that simple.  Becton was never going to play - that's the problem here.  Joe should have not been counting on him.  

Duane Brown going down sucks - but JD was stuck having to over pay a 37 year old LT - because he counted on Becton (that was the big mistake)

I think the idea that he has actually put this many resources into the OL and we'll be starting a rookie, 4th round RT from a small school is worrisome.

It's a top 10-15 line even with the rookie.

People need to find other things to freak out about.  

Wait until they see the all world d-line get rolled over tomorrow. 

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

It's a top 10-15 line even with the rookie.

People need to find other things to freak out about.  

Wait until they see the all world d-line get rolled over tomorrow. 

I surely hope you're right.  If the OL plays at a top 10 level tomorrow - this will be a very close game and the Jets can very well win.  

[nycdan]

Here's the scary thought I haven't seen voiced yet.

What happens if Fant or Mitchell get hurt.  Do we even have a backup OT?  Or do we then have to move AVT over and sub Feeney in at Guard?

Letting Edoga go in favor of an extra DB feels a little iffy right now.

[fusionCA]

6 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Here's the scary thought I haven't seen voiced yet.

What happens if Fant or Mitchell get hurt.  Do we even have a backup OT?  Or do we then have to move AVT over and sub Feeney in at Guard?

Letting Edoga go in favor of an extra DB feels a little iffy right now.

i would prefer to put you in Tackle then Edoga 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

41 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Here's the scary thought I haven't seen voiced yet.

What happens if Fant or Mitchell get hurt.  Do we even have a backup OT?  Or do we then have to move AVT over and sub Feeney in at Guard?

Letting Edoga go in favor of an extra DB feels a little iffy right now.

Here's a scary thought, "What if I step in front of a bus tomorrow?" 

Chill people.

Whatever can go wrong, will.  

It's inevitable.

Go with the flow. 

Disconnect emotionally and pop a pill. 

We're all going to die. 

[nycdan]

Just now, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Here's a scary thought, "What if I step in front of a bus tomorrow?" 

Chill people.

Whatever can go wrong, will.  

It's inevitable.

Go with the flow. 

Disconnect emotionally and pop a pill. 

We're all going to die. 

Just to be clear...

You're equating the odds of an OT getting hurt in a live NFL game to the odds of you walking in front of a bus?

Why have any backups?  25-man rosters!

[T0mShane]

14 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Fant isn't telling the Jets to F off. The Jets were the one team in the NFL who signed him to a starter's contract. Under that contract he had one bleh season and one good season. 

There are also still starting tackles sitting around in FA right now. There's more supply than demand. 

I like Fant just fine. The fact is he's also a 30 year-old T with an injury-prone past, only 2 years starting under his belt, only one of those two was he decent, and is too often a liability in the run game. You can pencil him in for at least a couple missed starts, and he also had - when he was younger and theoretically less-injury prone - a full missed season. The year before the Jets signed him he lost a camp competition to a RT who then had to take a year-minimum contract (and eventual position change) after that season.

After his first year here most thought he sucked & should've been cut before more guaranteed $ kicked in. Now lots of those same people are licking his face. 

There's also the possibility he's communicated he wants way more than he's worth. What if his agent's already communicated to Douglas that he wants a $20MM/year extension with 3 seasons fully guaranteed, and that's the reason the Jets haven't amended his current deal? 

He's under contract and the team can always tag him if they so desire. He's got more leverage than he had a week ago, but until the team is 100% certain Brown is out for the season I don't see them making him an offer after passing on that all spring/summer.

I'm with you that he's got more leverage than he had days ago, but I don't know that it's so easy to resolve.

The backup plan if Fant gets hurt is moving AVT out to left tackle, starting Herbig at guard, and praying to god that no one sprains an ankle. 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

20 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Just to be clear...

You're equating the odds of an OT getting hurt in a live NFL game to the odds of you walking in front of a bus?

Why have any backups?  25-man rosters!

 

I'm saying it's going to happen so stop freaking out about it.

It's inevitable.

Disconnect and try to enjoy the moment. 

[More Cowbell]

16 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Brown got hurt this past Monday.

Ok, let's  be more clear. McDermott sucked. I don't  care if he was familiar with the blocking schemes, he sucked at them. There was nobody else to sign? 

[FidelioJet]

39 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The backup plan if Fant gets hurt is moving AVT out to left tackle, starting Herbig at guard, and praying to god that no one sprains an ankle. 

oh boy, that would be bad!

[GangGreened]

18 hours ago, Saul Goodman said:

Max Mitchell providing some bulletin board material before his first ever game. This should go over well.

“The youngster was asked how he plans on handling the Baltimore Ravens defensive line and specifically 36-year-old veteran Calais Campbell:

“Yeah, obviously he is a 15-year vet so he has some salt to him. The dude is big, long, strong, fast, and a freak athlete but nothing we can’t handle. Nothing I haven’t seen on the field before. Obviously, he is a renown guy but he is just another dude.”

I actually like this. As long as he steps the f*ck up tomorrow.

[FidelioJet]

18 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The Rams must've been even dumber to start a 40 year-old LT last year, on the heels of missing half the season the year before. That's why they sucked and finished in last place last year. 

• LT = 40 year-old who missed the last half of the season in 2020
• LG = 24 year-old 5th rounder. Gave up almost a sack every other game + 70 pressures/hurries from the guard position.
• RG = former bust Cleveland let go for nothing. Similar QB sack+hits totals, and pressures+hurries as well, at the other guard position.
• C = former mid-round pick who'd never done anything before. Didn't even see the field the prior season even though he was healthy.
• RT = the Rams' only investment in the OL more expensive than a round 3 pick. Barely; he was a late 2nd rounder (#57) way back in 2015. Missed half the season in 2019.

Depth: I had to look this stuff up --

• Backup LT was Joel Noteboom (the guy who gave up 3 sacks + 3 QB hits last night).
• Backup RT was Bobby Evans (not seeing how he's an upgrade over the Jets' 5th string tackle last year).
• Backup C was Coleman Shelton (took 14 snaps in 2019 and none in 2020).
• Backup Gs were Jamil Demby and Jordan Meredith (neither of whom had ever taken an NFL snap). 

That was the 2021 NFL champions' offensive line. 

• Zero team investment of any top-50 picks in the draft.
• They didn't pay any veterans heavily. Their most expensive man on the line was a LT they gave a $10MM/year 3-year contract to...wait for it...at age 39. He went on IR & missed half that season. Also missed 2 playoff games a year later. 

Go through lots of other teams' OLs and you'll find a lot of the same. The Jets don't have some uniquely thin OL. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you get very unlucky. Losing Brown so quickly wasn't expected; as they get older their skills diminish and they get slower, but they don't suddenly get weaker & instantly unreliable a dozen snaps after a 17-start probowl season with 8 months of no-contact in between. 

Good post, but is the point here..

1) It's not big deal that we're starting a small school, 4th round, rookie RT - and JD managed the LT position properly

or

2) That we've put far too many resources into the OL - cause one can be built with a relatively limited allocation of resource..

Or both/neither.  (btw.  I agree #2, not #1)

Cause my point in all of this is - not judging the allocation of resources question - but rather....because we spent so many resources on the OL having a rookie, 4th round starting RT from a small school - is an indictment of Joe Douglas.

[Barry McCockinner]

IR - best case he's back week 5.

 

[SickJetFan]

8 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

IR - best case he's back week 5.

 

Good!  We will need him for the playoff run!

[Augustiniak]

10 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

IR - best case he's back week 5.

 

Wow, right after wilson returns.  What a coincidence.

[Barry McCockinner]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Wow, right after wilson returns.  What a coincidence.

Backup rookie gets some experience while Zach is out and the old vet gets a month of rest while we pickup a roster spot. Wouldn't be the craziest thing an NFL team ever did by design with IR.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Fant and McD are both listed as questionable 

If they both can’t go, who plays LT?

[Barry McCockinner]

1 minute ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Fant and McD are both listed as questionable 

If they both can’t go, who plays LT?

Streveler's package.

[Jet Nut]

On 9/9/2022 at 1:52 PM, Zachtomims47 said:

Fant about to trash the Jets on a Manish level real soon. 

Who the F is Fant to complain about being used where he’s needed?  
He’s been in the NFL 5 years and had one good season.  

[jason423]

Douglas got unlucky with the timing on Becton. He was trying to slow play the Brown situation hoping he would get him on the cheap. It was exactly what they did with Moses last year and it worked there.  Moses camp attempted to drum up outside interest and it didnt work and he wound up taking the Jets offer. Maybe they waited too long here. Maybe he also didnt want to send the signal that there was competition for Becton's job or they were worried about his health and figured signing after camp opened with Becton practicing would be fine. 

I think the bigger issue is that he panicked when Becton went down. That was a very big contract to give in August to a player who had been sitting for months as a free agent. It was the same deal with Kalil years back when he just decided he had to get a name at center. There were plenty of serviceable options available at tackle. but they rushed into it. Hopefully this doesnt turn into another Osemele situation. 

[Mark78]

[JetBlue]

21 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

What team is trading either of their starting tackles in August for a mid-round pick? Never mind it was and is unnecessary.

Truth is what they're starting right now, with two LTs injured, is far from unusual: last year's starting LT plus a mid-round rookie RT. 

Here's the other reality of the situation this offseason. There was no panic to sign another tackle, despite some warranted uncertainty with Becton, because there was an unusual number of prior-season starters flooding free agency.

There are still some available today ffs: 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/tackle/available/

First of all no said trade for another teams starting tackles so please with the straw man statement.  The best we coud do is McDermott???   That walking turnstile?   Sorry but had to be or has to be someone out there better than him we can or could have signed?  

[greenwave81]

8 hours ago, RichardTodd27 said:

Not sure why we don’t sign a RT. A few good ones still on the market (D. Williams, Shell, Massie….)

We had to restructure Mosleys deal pushing cap dollars into next season earlier this week just to have some cap space to make it through the season this year. Not sure where that money to sign another OT would come from

[greenwave81]

7 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Why the LOL?  

Because very few apparently agreed with some of us who wanted another OT drafted based on this boards draft thread responses. That’s all

[MykePM]

31 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

We had to restructure Mosleys deal pushing cap dollars into next season earlier this week just to have some cap space to make it through the season this year. Not sure where that money to sign another OT would come from

The Mosley deal opened enough money to sign another OT if necessary.  And waiting until after tomorrow’s game to sign one means that they can pay them week-to-week instead of their full-year salary being guaranteed.  Which is probably why there are still some notable OTs who are currently unsigned.