The case against Williams is weak

[Paradis]

49 minutes ago, Lith said:

April 2015:

Talk to anyone who knows football and QL Williams is the best prospect in the draft. He’s a man to watch. The tape is amazing and he almost seems destined to be a pro bowl player. He also improves Leonard Williams Muhammad Wilerson and Sheldon Richardson. This is warren sapp, John Randall guy who can rush the passer NOT from the edge by all reports. He’s not a roll of the dice like some early second rounder would be. 

Post of the century. 

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

You simply don't draft any DT at #3 overall. The positional value is not worth that high of a pick.

Suh is one of the best DTs in the league. He only has 1 10 sack season in his career. Gerald McCoy has never had 10 sacks in a season. These guys are pro bowlers at the position and they never generate 10+ sack seasons. Is that what you want with the 3rd pick in the draft?

Would u rather have von Miller or Suh? Would you rather Gerald McCoy or Khalil Mack? Fletcher Cox or Chandler Jones. I'd pick the DE /OLB over the DT every time.

 

[varjet]

The whole point in running a 3-4 defense is that you find LBs who can cover, stop the run and rush the passer and basically get three strong big guys who are not expensive to play DL.  The hard part is actually the NT and the EDGE, and we found a great NT who we let walk.  Pouha was ok.  Kris Jenkins made the whole defense work.  

In a 4-3 you spend money on the DL and find cheap LBers.  

I don't know how Quinnen fits with this defense unless you switch it to a 4-3.  

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

Talk to anyone who knows football and Q Williams is the best prospect in the draft. He’s a man to watch. The tape is amazing and he almost seems destined to be a pro bowl player. He also improves Leonard Williams. This is warren sapp, John Randall guy who can rush the passer NOT from the edge by all reports. He’s not a roll of the dice like some early second rounder would be. 

So why are people opposed. It’s not exactly football talk it’s more emotionally based

” I don’t want another dL”

”we have other needs”

This team has a lot of holes still and won’t be fixed tomorrow but drafting q if available and grabbing an o lineman in early 3rd seems a solid token to me. Not sure why mac is so obsessed with getting extra picks. He hasn’t picked to well outside the first round.  

Picks should be about quality not quantity. 

The case against Williams is mostly that he woke up last fall and decided to be somebody after god had already declared for his draft class. RGIII was a ridiculously good prospect. So was Beast Mode. It didn't matter.

[Ruby2]

34 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Yeah, he should have played for Houston and played cupcakes his entire career or Kentucky and play zero big games or get hurt in week 2 and make zero effort to come back to help his team. Oh wait, that's Oliver, Allen and bosa....

Allen dominated the best conference in CFB with limited help from his team mates compared to Williams.

[jack48]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

tfw you’ve drafted the best player in the draft five years running and your team is still 4-12

but had the worst coach 4 straight years

[Beerfish]

47 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Yeah, he should have played for Houston and played cupcakes his entire career or Kentucky and play zero big games or get hurt in week 2 and make zero effort to come back to help his team. Oh wait, that's Oliver, Allen and bosa....

He may have been able to play nose tackle and he may have been able to get the three year accolades Oliver did.

And he may have been able to handle being the only big time player on his team rather than being on a STACKED team with all stars at every position and normally up 50-3 in many games. 

Of this we will never know.

[GreenNewDeal]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

We heard the same thing about Leo Williams. 

I like Q. I think he's the best player in the draft. I even want him or Allen. But damn it, if Villain isn't speaking the truth here.

[jetsfaneh]

I made this point awhile back as well. It didn't go over well mostly. And now I am not wanting Williams either. We have had guys like Wilkerson, Coples and Richardson and have nothing to show for it. We need a complete team. Not a jacked dline. No DL is gonna take this team to the playoffs. They have legit positions to fill. Not upgrade! To actually fill. Trade down and fill two of them. Preferably OLB and C. Then figure out CB in round 3 if possible. Double dip even.

[JoJoTownsell1]

32 minutes ago, Ruby2 said:

Allen dominated the best conference in CFB with limited help from his team mates compared to Williams.

I like Allen, I was simply rebutting the notion that quinnen isn't the good because he didn't dominate in the championship game. 

[kevinc855]

2 hours ago, ElBarrioJets said:

"We have other needs" is football based. Also your last statement "quality not quantity," makes no sense in this context. I believe what you're trying to say is "Picks should be about quality, not need." If so, fair enough. 

In this case, defensive line is one of the FEW places on this team where Mac has attempted to build a pipeline. Shepherd and Fatukasi last year - regardless of how you think about them as prospects, we drafted two defensive linemen last year, WHY should we add another one at 3 when the depth chart is basically set there? 

Draft the best available DE/OLB because that position is a complete black hole, or trade down and go for the top Olinemen. Let's not overthink this. 

 

Wrong. A top 5 pick in my eyes is worth more then a 2nd and 3rd round pick although with the latter you have more picks 

[kevinc855]

48 minutes ago, RobR said:

Weren't you the poster that was in love with the Hackenberg pick? He just needed some more time.

No actually look up my history I hated him 

[Drums]

I want him even less after reading through this thread. Cheers.

[NoBowles]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

tfw you’ve drafted the best player in the draft five years running and your team is still 4-12

Terrible coaching??

[RobR]

6 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

No actually look up my history I hated him 

My bad, I'm probably associating your avatar with someone else.

[ElBarrioJets]

7 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Wrong. A top 5 pick in my eyes is worth more then a 2nd and 3rd round pick although with the latter you have more picks 

...What?

When did you even bring up trading down in your original post? Are you talking about trading down? Wtf are you talking about?

Taking a DT at 3 is dumb. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

4 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Terrible coaching??

Terrible coaching.. No QB.

We could have drafted elite pass rushers the last ten years straight and we'd still be a losing franchise without the right QB. Luckily Macc solved that problem...

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

 

Fight me, @Gastineau Lives

[MindOverMatter]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Post of the century. 

Honestly, Q is a good prospect and i like Oliver even better but at some point you have to start adding 1st round talent to the offense. If we want a top tier DT so bad just sign Suh off FA or wait til next year where there will surely be a Quinnen-type prospect coming out.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

You simply don't draft any DT at #3 overall. The positional value is not worth that high of a pick.

Suh is one of the best DTs in the league. He only has 1 10 sack season in his career. Gerald McCoy has never had 10 sacks in a season. These guys are pro bowlers at the position and they never generate 10+ sack seasons. Is that what you want with the 3rd pick in the draft?

Would u rather have von Miller or Suh? Would you rather Gerald McCoy or Khalil Mack? Fletcher Cox or Chandler Jones. I'd pick the DE /OLB over the DT every time.

 

Would you take Aaron Donald at # 3 overall?

Answer:  Yes, every time.  

Pass-rushing DT's are as valuable, if not more so, than EDGE rushers.  Suh is a poor comparison, because he's closer to being Gerald McCoy (still very good, FWIW) than he is Aaron Donald.

[SR24]

Hopefully Bosa is there at 3 and we can all be happy 

[Savage69]

2 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Q seems too affable to me. 

I don't want anymore friendly D linemen. 

Reggie White was a Minister..

[Pac]

The only people who thinks Leonard Williams is not good are Jet fans..  there isn't a team in the league who wouldn't take him.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, Pac said:

The only people who thinks Leonard Williams is not good are Jet fans..  there isn't a team in the league who wouldn't take him.

Oh man this is gonna get good

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

16 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Would you take Aaron Donald at # 3 overall?

Answer:  Yes, every time.  

Pass-rushing DT's are as valuable, if not more so, than EDGE rushers.  Suh is a poor comparison, because he's closer to being Gerald McCoy (still very good, FWIW) than he is Aaron Donald.

Would you take the guarantee of Suh's career at 3? At least three times in a row, right?

[Welp]

I feel like he'll be similar to Marcell Dareus where he has a solid career but in hindsight you wouldn't have wanted to use the 3rd pick on him.

[NYs Stepchild]

47 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Reggie White was a Minister..

Fire and brimstone.

You're all going to hell. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

25 minutes ago, Welp said:

I feel like he'll be similar to Marcell Dareus where he has a solid career but in hindsight you wouldn't have wanted to use the 3rd pick on him.

Was this the same hindsight that was in use when they regretted the pick so much they extended him for a hundred million dollars?

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

I prefer Oliver because of the ridiculous athleticism, but I’d actually be ok with Q Williams as well. Think both are going to be very successful, just Oliver has a higher upside. 

They’re both ridiculously athletic

 

Difference is Oliver played Nose his entire college career and will probably have to move to OLB which is an enormous transition

 

QW would play the same position pretty much that he did in college

[Philc1]

48 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Would you take the guarantee of Suh's career at 3? At least three times in a row, right?

If Goff doesn’t wuss out of the Super Bowl Suh wins the Super Bowl and is the mvp facing Brady and Belichick 

 

Yes DL matters

 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

2 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

If Goff doesn’t wuss out of the Super Bowl Suh wins the Super Bowl and is the mvp facing Brady and Belichick 

 

Yes DL matters

 

They're making like taking a guy who was only all pro once or twice and leaving at least one better player on the board is some kind of calamity and I'm going sign me up 

[CotcheryifyouCan]

dont want him over allen bosa or oliver, but he does seem like a good dude and imo bee an average player.  i just saw an interview with him about his mom who died of cancer.  seems like a real solid guy so i wish him the best

[Welp]

24 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Was this the same hindsight that was in use when they regretted the pick so much they extended him for a hundred million dollars?

They obviously regretted it soon afterwards. He peaked at the right time playing at an All-Pro level the year before but obviously considering the players picked after him they probably wished to use the #3 pick on someone else. Point is I believe Williams will be a solid player just not sure his impact will be worth the #3 pick.

[nycdan]

It's a fair point to consider - if a DT is worth the #3 pick (other than Aaron Donald who is a clear outlier).  But I am amused by the people who way QW isn't worth the #3 pick but Ed Oliver is.  Every year we have a 'fancy flavor' who roughly 30-40% of our posters are gaga over and want to draft above his consensus spot, and Oliver appears to be this year's version. 

He might be great, but when most of the rest of the world thinks QW is the better prospect, I'm dubious that the fans here are smarter than everyone else.  In fact, based on years of observation, I'm pretty sure that's not the case

 

 

[Jet_Engine1]

4 hours ago, HelenOfTroy said:

Too bad the Jets do not have the luxury of selecting one of the top three defensive players in the draft.  Ignoring for YEARS, the most important unit on the offense is criminal, now they have no choice.  

It’s like me buying nothing but designer shoes for 10+ years, to pair with raggedy-a** clothes.  Have to start buying clothes to go with those shoes. ?