Warford wants around 7 mil per

[GreenFish]

17 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It really sucks how often the word "scheme fit" has come up since Gase got hired.  Seems to be a real issue with him in the way it isn;t for alot of other NFL Coaches...

Most teams want to play a certain way. The fact that we haven’t been trying to get specific players is actually a problem. It’s the Macc way of building a team. 
 

When draft time comes around, for the better teams, we always hear such and such player is a Patriot type of player (ie shifty WR type of player), Seattle (big corners), Pit, Bal, etc. The better teams look for specific players that fit their team.   Atlanta is always getting those athletic OL which is no surprise they went Hennessy in the 3rd. 

[nycdan]

36 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

10 yard split: 1.92s (8th percentile At his position)

20yrd shuttle: 5.1s (6th percentile)

3-cone: 7.78s (57th percentile)

Honest question, which drill do you think is the best indicator for our scheme? Also Aren’t guards pulling more of a man concept as opposed to zone?

Not specific to you, but It would be nice to see a breakdown of the different running schemes. I was under the impression that we are running an outside zone which tries to stretch teams laterally and allows running back to cut through when they see an opening. The OL then need to move up to the second level. I’m a novice when it comes to watching the big fellas though. If so, seems like lateral agility is the most important movement. My guess is that the short shuttle would be the best indicator. 

Just to answer the question about how far an OL can run when pulling, look at the Center and Tackle in this play.  The Center runs from the right hashmark to the left numbers, I'd guess about 15 yards.  They if they get to turn upfield and block you can tack more onto that.

Here's a decent instructional video on a pin and pull scheme.  You can see the Guard needs a quick first step and some acceleration in order to get to the Linebacker. 

 

 

[ECURB]

Just now, slimjasi said:

So, I have been reading some of the articles written by the folks to cover the Saints. It appears that they weren't thrilled with his performance last year and didn't think he was worth the money. I also always think there is somewhat of a red flag when a smart organization cuts a a good offensive lineman. 

Having said that, he is definitely better than Winters and I want him, lol

Wait WHAT!?!??!

You mean he isn’t a sure thing!?!? ?

My guess is he will be out of the league in 2 seasons once teams realize Drew Brees had such a quick release any slow and strong G would look better than they are

[ECURB]

25 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It really sucks how often the word "scheme fit" has come up since Gase got hired.  Seems to be a real issue with him in the way it isn;t for alot of other NFL Coaches...

It is actually one of the brightest spots of his tenure.

Winning teams build a scheme around a small core and stick with it.

new England does it... the 49ers are a hell of an example... the Ravens built the roster based on scheme for Lamar... 

You and all of these Gase haters want the JETS to be more like the Browns and Just sign Odel and whoever else has “talent” because how can it fail!?!?!!

[Wonderboy]

2 hours ago, Drums said:

I don't want to hate on Winters but he even wears the same number. If you're planning to keep Winters for depth or competition, then it really does seem like something JD should try to make happen. I won't get my hopes up because there will probably be competition and I don't see JD breaking the bank. 

With all the FA and draft picks, Winters is expendable. Makes no sense keep an oft injured, expensive guard around when JD can plug Warford right into the guard spot and upgrade this line.  But JD needs to move on this asap. He wont be around for long. 

[jeremy2020]

13 minutes ago, ECURB said:

So Gase should change his entire scheme and blocking scheme to fit a slow guard that just got cut? This argument is foolish.

smart teams would add the right fitting player for half the price with better results 

 

Typical SOJF response. Make something up in your head. Attribute that argument to anyone who says anything that remotely upsets you. Focus on some specific element and how nobody understands it.  Attack player who's started 101 straight games and made 3 probowls in the last 4 years as fat and slow. Get mom to come read your forum post and confirm your secret genius. Fap over how you pwned them.

If you'd like to join the rest of us in reality, you'll realize I specifically said no way the Jets sign him because he doesn't fit and people should accept that.

[Prez33]

1 minute ago, ECURB said:

It is actually one of the brightest spots of his tenure.

Winning teams build a scheme around a small core and stick with it.

new England does it... the 49ers are a hell of an example... the Ravens built the roster based on scheme for Lamar... 

You and all of these Gase haters want the JETS to be more like the Browns and Just sign Odel and whoever else has “talent” because how can it fail!?!?!!

Agree. We should’ve learned by now that winning the FA bonanza doesn’t usually amount to much. Great teams build a core, centered around an idea of how they want to get it done. That’s scheme. 49ers are the best example. Kyle Shanahan and John Lynch have put together a team that makes sense and succeeds because of how the players fit the system almost to perfection. 

[jetstream23]

41 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It really sucks how often the word "scheme fit" has come up since Gase got hired.  Seems to be a real issue with him in the way it isn;t for alot of other NFL Coaches...

Perhaps.  I don't know.  I just know that it has proven to be a factor of importance for Gase and Douglas it seems.  Whether we agree with the approach or not, that's the modus operandi for the Jets these days so it should be considered whenever we see a name hit the street as a FA.

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, Alka said:

I feel that we have players on our squad right now who should be able to compete for the starting right guard.  In fact, we have too many players.  I just hope we got the right players.

 

I agree.  We're rebuilding and we've signed enough vets.  Let's see what we've got instead of signing a new guy for 3 years and $20M.

 

Quote

It makes more sense to me to release Winters and save his $7M for this year.  Then, we can use that money to assist in signing Jamal Adams to a long term deal.  

[southparkcpa]

2 hours ago, GreenFish said:

I like Winters as well. It’s unfortunate he’s always hurt. He can move well also. So probably fits our scheme well. But if you’re not healthy, you’re not helping.

Winters was. 3rd round pick in 2013.   he owes us nothing.    He’s probably in the top 5 of pour picks since then if we consider everything.  most of our picks are out of the league in 4 years.  he’s no Mangold or Ferguson but as a third rounder, he was better than average by a little bit. 

[docdhc]

1 hour ago, Alka said:

It makes more sense to me to release Winters and save his $7M for this year.  Then, we can use that money to assist in signing Jamal Adams to a long term deal.  I feel that we have players on our squad right now who should be able to compete for the starting right guard.  In fact, we have too many players.  I just hope we got the right players.

This. Winters is gone and we use the money for other area of need. 

[sirlancemehlot]

On 5/11/2020 at 6:14 PM, nycdan said:

Just to answer the question about how far an OL can run when pulling, look at the Center and Tackle in this play.  The Center runs from the right hashmark to the left numbers, I'd guess about 15 yards.  They if they get to turn upfield and block you can tack more onto that.

Here's a decent instructional video on a pin and pull scheme.  You can see the Guard needs a quick first step and some acceleration in order to get to the Linebacker. 

 

 

Lol.  The video shows a Center and tackle pulling out into space and executing perfect downfield blocks.  The funny part?  The Center is former Pro Bowler Travis Frederick who was drafted the same year as Warford (2013) and ran the exact same forty time (5.58)

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/2013-combine.htm.  So much for 40 time in grading offensive lineman.

[Jetlife33]

All I keep seeing on different forums is that Warford is slow and not a fit for zone blocking, which I think the jets offense uses. I don’t see this happening even though it makes sense initially on paper. 

[Barry McCockinner]

13 minutes ago, sirlancemehlot said:

• Report post
•  
•  
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•  #47

Posted 12 minutes ago

  1 hour ago, nycdan said:

Just to answer the question about how far an OL can run when pulling, look at the Center and Tackle in this play.  The Center runs from the right hashmark to the left numbers, I'd guess about 15 yards.  They if they get to turn upfield and block you can tack more onto that.

Here's a decent instructional video on a pin and pull scheme.  You can see the Guard needs a quick first step and some acceleration in order to get to the Linebacker. 

Lol.  The video shows a Center and tackle pulling out into space and executing perfect downfield blocks.  The funny part?  The Center is former Pro Bowler Travis Frederick who was drafted the same year as Warford (2013) and ran the exact same forty time (5.58)

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/2013-combine.htm.  So much for 40 time in grading offensive lineman.

lol

[choon328]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

It really sucks how often the word "scheme fit" has come up since Gase got hired.  Seems to be a real issue with him in the way it isn;t for alot of other NFL Coaches...

This is a ridiculous statement. Every coach values scheme fit. Take a look at Pittsburgh/Baltimore for the last 20 years.  They draft and bring in FA constantly that fit their scheme.  Macc just brought in names without any regard for how they would work in a coaches scheme and that's why so many of them were disappointments. It's literally why the coaching staff wanted Ed Oliver over Quinnen last year and Macc went against them.  That's the opposite of what good organizations do. 

[choon328]

People acting like the offensive line is set and are definitely going to be good are mistaken.  Larry Warford is better then any offensive lineman the Jets have currently and its not close. If you have a chance to bring in a 3x Pro Bowler in his prime you do it. I'm tired of people acting like the offensive line is a finished product.  Far from it. 

[Barry McCockinner]

1 hour ago, chirorob said:

If you want a guard who can trap and pull, he needs to be able to run.   If you want a guy who just mauls straight ahead, it doesn't matter.

Running 40 yards in a straight line doesn't translate to pulling offensive linemen too much IMO. It's more about having a quick first step in the right direction, some quick burst and then taking good angles to make sure you're putting your body on a defender. 

You could be the fastest olineman in the world and it wouldn't matter one iota if you aren't taking proper angles. I can see not wanting a load who can't move well but the 40 yard dash thing just seems silly to me.

[Adoni Beast]

Run blocking bulldozer at guard. 

Multiple pro bowler in the midst of his prime.

Seeking salary that matches current cuttable back up guard.

I’m legitimately confused why he hasn’t been signed yet.

[32EBoozer]

21 hours ago, Warfish said:

1. Can we afford it.  If yes, go to line 2 -----\/

2. Is he materially better than the player we have.  If yes, go to line 3 ------\/

3. Do we need that money for someone else, like a #1 WR.  If no, go to line 4 --------\/

4. Sign that beast for short money.Player passes on short money go back to 1

Fixed

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, ECURB said:

It is actually one of the brightest spots of his tenure.

Winning teams build a scheme around a small core and stick with it.

new England does it... the 49ers are a hell of an example... the Ravens built the roster based on scheme for Lamar... 

You and all of these Gase haters want the JETS to be more like the Browns and Just sign Odel and whoever else has “talent” because how can it fail!?!?!!

Yes, but those other teams actually have good players to build around.

We keep signing everyone else’s back-ups.  Scheme or no scheme you still need good players to win.  

[FidelioJet]

45 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Run blocking bulldozer at guard. 

Multiple pro bowler in the midst of his prime.

Seeking salary that matches current cuttable back up guard.

I’m legitimately confused why he hasn’t been signed yet.

We seem to like back-ups on our O-line. 

[Butterfield]

Not a good fit for what the jets want to do.  

[slimjasi]

49 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Run blocking bulldozer at guard. 

Multiple pro bowler in the midst of his prime.

Seeking salary that matches current cuttable back up guard.

I’m legitimately confused why he hasn’t been signed yet.

1) pro bowls are somewhat meaningless 

2) teams are probably like “wait, why did they cut this guy. He’s good right? What’s the issue here?” It’s a red flag 

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

A guard pulling isn't much like running 40 yards in a straight line though.

Its not about his 40 time though.

Its about being quick and able to pull.  Need to be quick and athletic, youre right, 40 time has little to do with being quick

 

[Butterfield]

56 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Running 40 yards in a straight line doesn't translate to pulling offensive linemen too much IMO. It's more about having a quick first step in the right direction, some quick burst and then taking good angles to make sure you're putting your body on a defender. 

You could be the fastest olineman in the world and it wouldn't matter one iota if you aren't taking proper angles. I can see not wanting a load who can't move well but the 40 yard dash thing just seems silly to me.

He was (is) slow no matter how you measure it.
 

 

[Embrace the Suck]

5 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

This is an undervalued point. It's known that Gase can not adapt to players and needs specific players for his scheme. So every guy out there may not be an option.

Yeah, a coach that wants players that fit a system which the whole team is playing with, what a dunce... I'd much prefer signing random talented  players who don't fit a scheme every year then wondering why the Jets never get better when the team has constant turnover and never plays as a team.

[Greenseed4]

Serious question: when running a wide zone scheme, do you really need FIVE athletic guys? I’d imagine you could scheme around a single slow fatty. 

[Jethead]

Trust JD to take hard look. I'm fine with whatever he decides. 

[Larz]

Can we go fund this ?

[ryu79]

19 minutes ago, Larz said:

Can we go fund this ?

Yes. Just do this already. 

[Philc1]

Replacing Winters with Warford is about as obvious as it gets

[Aaron Hernandez]

20 hours ago, Team archer said:

BYE BYE BYE WINTERS

I don't know why Winters is still on the team. I'd cut him for the Havanese dog I just inherited when my grandma died at Vet minimum. I'd take my Grandma also

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, Aaron Hernandez said:

I don't know why Winters is still on the team. I'd cut him for the Havanese dog I just inherited when my grandma died at Vet minimum. I'd take my Grandma also

Winters should be cut because 1) he stinks and 2) it would save the jets $7 million

[Barry McCockinner]

39 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Replacing Winters with Warford is about as obvious as it gets

but have you seen Warford's 40 time?

[Aaron Hernandez]

7 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Winters should be cut because 1) he stinks and 2) it would save the jets $7 million

I know. Why this dog or my dead grandmother is a better value at Vet minimum