Trevor Lawrence is not a much better prospect than Justin Fields. All objective evidence shows they are equally great yet one is judged on a different standard than the other.

[Spoot-Face]

35 minutes ago, HtownJet said:

If true, then Jacksonville should be considering Fields then, right?

Oh absolutely, and one of my biggest fears is that he has a monster game against Alabama. If he does, Jacksonville seriously has to reassess the first pick. For selfish reasons I’m hoping he doesn’t have a great game so we get him at 2. Fields is a special player.

Except that Khan is the de facto GM in Jacksonville, and I think he'll feel the pressure from the fanbase to get them their golden-haired boy Lawrence, more than anyone else in that organization.

I'd be very surprised to see Jacksonville not pick Lawrence.

[BroadwayRay]

1 hour ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I don't know, Fields looked really good after the injury last week.

But nothing I saw from Fields was as good as the throw by Trevor @ 14 seconds on this video.

That's under pressure, off your back foot, and on the outside shoulder where only the receiver could get it. 

Fields has better protection and is routinely off on those deep throws.

Granted, I was lower on Fields before that game, and he definitely showed a lot to be excited about. But I still think Trevor is easily the better prospect. 

What the hell are you talking about?

 

 

[win4ever]

From what I've seen myself, I don't think they are that far away. I don't like to use stats quite as much because talent level can cause mismatches. For example, look at Tua's stats last year with an entire field of No. 1 guys at his disposal. From the tape.

- Lawrence has a better arm, much like those Darnold/Allen conversations from years past. They both have very good arms but then Lawrence makes a "oh he made that" throw in there. Fields has a very good arm, but he's a step below Lawrence.

- Fields is a better at down field throws, because he has great trajectory. If we're talking about down field passing, we have to talk about angles. Even if the defender is behind by a step, the angle of the pass has to be over that guy. A guy that does this consistently is Russel Wilson, essentially throwing a rainfall deep ball. For a specific example, Joe Flacco's pass against the Broncos in the playoffs few years ago. This is an extremely valuable tool.

- Lawrence is better off platform. We heard this with Darnold and how he was good throwing off platform in a crowded pocket. It didn't work out, but that is a trait that can help. Fields tends to have cleaner mechanics and pockets, so you don't see it as much on tape. I feel Lawrence throws better on the run.

- Fields is the better NFL runner, because he's elusive. Lawrence is a very good athlete, but he's a physical runner and that's just asking to get injured in the NFL. If you want an RPO based offense, you want someone closer to Murray/Wilson than Allen/RB. Essentially a guy that can make people miss in the open field and prevent hits than someone who can push through a pile.

- Surrounding "talent" is really hard to decipher. Ohio State has the better surrounding talent around Fields, and I don't think it's close. However, Clemson's system protects QB stats much more with horizontal outlets, whereas Ohio State pushes it down the field, which takes away some of the easy stats.

The part that we don't know is how they are dissecting the play mentally, and how they read defenses.

- Lawrence has more freedom at the line of scrimmage, I see him calling more audibles, so I think he has a better concept at the LoS.

I don't think Lawrence is on another tier as the media portrays. In a weird way, it kinda reminds me of the Luck draft, but instead of RGIII, it's Luck vs. Wilson as prospects.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[56mehl56]

55 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Yeah like IU and Northwestern ?

 

and look at what happened 

LSU and OSU - look what happened to old Trevor 

[rangerous]

the stats only tell part of the story.  look at when rivers, eli, and rothlisberger came out.  anyone choosing a season or two after that draft would pick rothlisberger.  i don't know how their college stats stacked up.  no doubt they were all good but rothlisberger was/is the better pro qb..  both fields and lawrence are putting up good numbers in top programs.  how much of their success is them or the team around them needs to be considered.  and that also applies to the lesser rated qbs in the draft.

[jetswinbaby!]

As of now, there is no way to know if Field's amazing game was a mainly function of Field's talent

or a function of Ohio State as a whole being the much better team that night...

In other words, if Fields and Lawrence had switched teams before the game, would we be talking about Lawrence's amazing game instead?

I think the Alabama game will answer a lot of the questions about Fields...

Can't wait...

 

[CTM]

I'm sticking to my opion from Septmeber, I like Fields better

[QB1]

3 minutes ago, jetswinbaby! said:

As of now, there is no way to know if Field's amazing game was a mainly function of Field's talent

or a function of Ohio State as a whole being the much better team that night...

In other words, if Fields and Lawrence had switched teams before the game, would we be talking about Lawrence's amazing game instead?

I think the Alabama game will answer a lot of the questions about Fields...

Can't wait...

 

Yea there is, look at his entire body of work

 

[JetPotato]

1 hour ago, QB1 said:

Routinely off on deep throws? I’ve seen every snap of fields this year and the exact opposite is the case. I can’t remember the last time I saw such accuracy down the field. 

Question for you and the others that keep up with the college game more...

Forget everything you now know about Sam Darnold. Put your brain at April 2018. You can draft this version of Fields or that version of Darnold. Honest answer... which one do you prefer? 

[Bruce Harper]

2 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I don't know, Fields looked really good after the injury last week.

But nothing I saw from Fields was as good as the throw by Trevor @ 14 seconds on this video.

That's under pressure, off your back foot, and on the outside shoulder where only the receiver could get it. 

Fields has better protection and is routinely off on those deep throws.

Granted, I was lower on Fields before that game, and he definitely showed a lot to be excited about. But I still think Trevor is easily the better prospect. 

Based on my eyeball test, Fields looks like he has better deep ball accuracy than Trevor.  And I believe the stats also support that conclusion.

[Matt39]

Lawrence >>> Fields by a lot imo

[QB1]

Just now, JetPotato said:

Question for you and the others that keep up with the college game more...

Forget everything you now know about Sam Darnold. Put your brain at April 2018. You can draft this version of Fields or that version of Darnold. Honest answer... which one do you prefer? 

Probably Darnold. But what I liked about Darnold was a little less tangible. I loved his ability to perform in chaos and feel for space. I thought he was a natural baller. Talent wise they aren’t not really in the same leuage. 

[Jetster]

I want the talented guy with the BIG OL CHIP on his shoulder that goes #2 which will be Fields no matter what happens in the CFC.

Khan needs fannies in the seats, the fair haired boy will be a bigger draw. Fields strutted into that Clemson game with a LETS GET IT ON swag. Honestly, I think he wasn't mentally prepared for Indiana & Northwestern. 

Complacency happens in this no fans Covid atmosphere. I think he's gonna be ready vs Bama, and Trask went up & down the field easily & unfortunately for Alabama, their defense is no match for OSUs Oline. 

Fields is a no brainer for the Jets with the types of Head Coaches we think JD will be looking at. Daboll, Bienemy, Arthur, Shottenheimer, Martindale, Roman. Everyone of these guys have been around offenses with a mobile QB with accuracy & good arms. He's way faster than Darnold, who always comes up with 3/5 yards on those runs along the sideline. Add 3/5 more yards with Fields wheels & much shorter 2nd & 3rd yardage to gain. He'll learn to slide in the NFL inside the hashes. 

[nyjbuddy]

 

 

 

 

JT O'Sullivan does a good breakdown of the good and bad of each QB.  Both are great prospects with different flaws.  It will depend on offensive fit and coaching to see if those flaws can be corrected or minimized in the NFL.

[New York Mick]

Both are overrated 

[RedBeardedSavage]

46 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

What the hell are you talking about?

 

 

Didn’t they say the same thing about Baker?

Didn’t he have the best deep ball accuracy PFF ever recorded?

[Philc1]

32 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Lawrence >>> Fields by a lot imo

Need more >

[Philc1]

34 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

Based on my eyeball test, Fields looks like he has better deep ball accuracy than Trevor.  And I believe the stats also support that conclusion.

It helps that his WRs have 5-10 yards separation on those plays and defenses are sold out against the run facing Sermon

[BroadwayRay]

7 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Didn’t they say the same thing about Baker?

Didn’t he have the best deep ball accuracy PFF ever recorded?

Who gives a sh*t what they said about Baker Mayfield. You were clearly, absolutely, and embarassingly wrong.

[GreenFish]

Interesting read. Well Fields has better accuracy and a better deep ball than Lawrence. So there’s that. Both seem like similar athletes. What is it that Lawrence does better then Fields?

[Charlie Brown]

3 hours ago, mrcoops said:

It's almost as if there is some other factor, which I can't quite put my finger on, which is influencing people's ratings of Fields...

What really annoys me is when Fields is pigeon-holed as a "running" QB, when he is actually a quality passer who can run if needed.

If anything, I've seen more designed runs for Lawrence than I have for Fields.

No question he is more like a stronger - faster Russel Wilson.....

The key is he runs when designed or out of necessity!

I WANT FIELDS!!!!

[RedBeardedSavage]

3 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

Who gives a sh*t what they said about Baker Mayfield. You were clearly, absolutely, and embarassingly wrong.

I took issue with your source and their previous analysis.

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-baker-mayfields-box-score-stats-dont-tell-the-whole-story-behind-his-strong-start-to-the-season

Here’s what they have to say about Baker and his deep accuracy. Skip to the paragraph under ball location.

They rave about him, cite a lot stats. How do you feel about Baker as an NFL quarterback? 

Great, you’re doing the same thing - “wow 77% completion on all deep throws”.

I’ll say it again, Fields has the best offensive line  in the sport and two dynamic, deep play WR’s in #2 and #5.

Translation: completion % does not equal tight window throws or ball placement. When every defense fears your team’s running game, you have all day to pass and your 2 WR’s have 5 yards of separation every play, you’re going to put up some stats. 

So yea, deep completion % isn’t a stat that’s meaningful to me.

[Philc1]

4 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Interesting read. Well Fields has better accuracy and a better deep ball than Lawrence. So there’s that. Both seem like similar athletes. What is it that Lawrence does better then Fields?

Besides everything?

[Teflon-Don]

Fields is a fighter, we want a guy with a massive chip on his shoulder like that. I just hope he performs very well against Bama to make the top 2 picks a win-win situation

[Philc1]

4 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

No question he is more like a stronger - faster Russel Wilson.....

The key is he runs when designed or out of necessity!

I WANT FIELDS!!!!

I remember when Marcus Mariota was getting called a faster Russell Wilson here

 

Watch the Clemson game.  Sermon dominated the defense sold out to stop him and Fields had first reads open all night long - not happening in the nfl he will bust 

 

[varjet]

One thing that will be very important is character.  

People have great things to say about Deshaun Watson, for example, as a person.  His professionalism, his commitment.  

Fields will be associated with Haskins, by association.  Hopefully that is not the case.  It does not sounds that way. 

It seems that all of the young QBs that have been successful in the last 5 years, or more, have been serious and dedicated professionals.  

Religious QBs like Lawrence and Wilson will be viewed positively.  I don't think you can take that for granted.  

[jbt]

5 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I’ll say it again, Fields has the best offensive line  in the sport and two dynamic, deep play WR’s in #2 and #5.

 

what is Trevor playing with, a bunch of scrubs?

[Sonny Werblin]

From my perspective, the two are very close in ability and performance but as of this moment, Lawrence is the better prospect for the following reasons: stronger arm; taller; longer track record of success; and he stayed at Clemson and beat out Kelly Bryant while Fields left Georgia rather than beat out Jake Fromm.

This doesn't mean that Fields can't be a better pro than Lawrence. No one really knows. But height, arm strength  and the historical records will not be changing. Fields has the National Championship game and the pre-draft process to close the gap and, who knows, Lawrence may drop as a result of the pre-draft process.

And while Fields is the lesser prospect right now, I do believe his is the clear #2 at the current time.

[RedBeardedSavage]

53 minutes ago, jbt said:

what is Trevor playing with, a bunch of scrubs?

We just saw who had, by far, the better team last week. 

And my point is, we shouldn't be looking to collegiate stats for a predictor of NFL success. Collegiate stats are much more of a product of overall program talent.

If we're judging a quarterback, we have to look at decision making and tight window throws. I have questions for Fields on both of them. He's tough, he's likeable, he's made some really nice plays... but those are three things I'd say about Sam Darnold too, and that hasn't worked here. 

[Charlie Brown]

15 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

I remember when Marcus Mariota was getting called a faster Russell Wilson here

 

Watch the Clemson game.  Sermon dominated the defense sold out to stop him and Fields had first reads open all night long - not happening in the nfl he will bust 

 

Hey I didn't want Mariota!

And I didn't want Sam because I was afraid the Jets would SCREW up his development and they have.  The guy I wanted was Baker because I was sure that Baker was arrogant enough not to let the Jets ruin him!

QB I wanted before that was Mahomes and I couldn't believe that the Jets passed on him!!

Now Fields who is strong can throw the ball with accuracy and needs to improve his mental timing to me is my pick. 

Zach whom I also like, has had two shoulder surgeries as well as hand surgery so I am not as high on him for that reason alone but I actually believe that all three Lawrence, Fields and Wilson will each be fine pros.

Finally ......................................(JD had a plan and that is why he drafted James Morgan higher than most thought we should have)

[PS17]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Lawrence >>> Fields by a lot imo

Who do you want at 2 if Lawrence goes 1?

[Larz]

Trevor won a title as a true freshman and I think he just got labeled Superman after that 

[Matt39]

10 minutes ago, PS17 said:

Who do you want at 2 if Lawrence goes 1?

At this moment Wilson. 

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Didn’t they say the same thing about Baker?

Didn’t he have the best deep ball accuracy PFF ever recorded?

If Fields were an exact clone of Baker, he'd be the best QB we've had since 2015 Fitzpatrick. 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

I want whoever we draft.