AVT trade 1 year later: Did the Jets "win" the trade?

[Jetsfan80]

As a refresher, this was the trade that landed the Jets Alijah Vera-Tucker:

 

Jets received:

• Pick # 14:  G Alijah Vera-Tucker
• Pick # 143 (Later traded, netting Jets the players below):
  • S Brandin Echols (2 INT's, 9 PD's)
  • CB Jason Pinnock (2 FFs, 1 PD)
  • DT Jonathan Marshall (4 Games, 1 QB Hit, 1 QB Pressure)

Vikings received:

• Pick # 23:  OT Christian Darrisaw
• Pick # 66:  QB Kellen Mond
• Pick # 86:  G Wyatt Davis

 

In making the deal, the Jets (theoretically at least) missed out on the following notable players who ended up being available at pick 23 (and then later at 66 and 86) and performed well as rookies:

• EDGE Gregory Rousseau - BUF - pick 1.30 (4.0 Sacks, 1 FF, 10 QB Hits, 1 INT, 4 PDs, 8 TFLs)
• G Jalen Mayfield - ATL - pick 3.68
• G Landon Dickerson - PHI - pick 2.37
• RB Najee Harris - PIT - pick 1.24 (1200 yards, 3.9 YPC, 74 catches, 10 total TDs)
• RB Javonte Williams - DEN - pick 2.35 (4.4 YPC, 43 catches, 7 total TDs)
• CB Paulson Adebo - NO - pick 3.76 (3 INTs, 8 PDs)
• DT Osa Odighizuwa - DAL - pick 3.75 (2.0 Sacks, 6 TFLs, 11 QB Hits, 8 QB Knockdowns)
• WR Rondale Moore - AZ - pick 2.49 (54 catches, 435 yards, 1 TD)
• WR Rashod Bateman - BAL - pick 1.27 (46 catches, 515 yards, 1 TD)

 

 

@GreenFish

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@OilfieldJet

[Beerfish]

[Jetsfan80]

I made this a public poll so we could see who the spineless amongst us are.  I'll keep a running list in the OP.  

 

[ElBarrioJets]

There was zero presence on this line on the interior OL that any other teams would respect before AVT arrived. That alone makes it a good trade in retrospect. The 3 seemingly serviceable depth players that came out of the trade could make it sweeter.  

[GreenFish]

I saw the poll and took the easy way out.
 

[Irish Jet]

As of now I’ll take the negs and say no. I didn’t hate the urgency at the time because the priority was helping Zach. Zach didn’t really do anything to merit that with hindsight as he struggled about as badly as possible anyway.

He can only justify it by becoming an elite guard. He’s not there yet but you wouldn’t expect him to be. His first season wasn’t exceptionally bad or good.

It was early for a guard to begin with but I certainly can’t justify giving up those picks in a team bereft of talent. Especially as I felt those rounds were deep with players.

[UntouchableCrew]

Who the Vikings took is irrelevant IMO, so it's really a question of whether the Jets would have been better sticking and picking.

AVT had a promising rookie year but given the way this has played out I'd probably lean toward they did not win the trade. It was a lot to move up and for it to really work out AVT needs to be a Zack Martin type player.

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

As of now I’ll take the negs and say no. I didn’t hate the urgency at the time because the priority was helping Zach. Zach didn’t really do anything to merit that with hindsight as he struggled about as badly as possible anyway.

He can only justify it by becoming an elite guard. He’s not there yet but you wouldn’t expect him to be. His first season wasn’t exceptionally bad or good.

It was early for a guard to begin with but I certainly can’t justify giving up those picks in a team bereft of talent. Especially as I felt those rounds were deep with players.

No one who says “no” should be negged, because AVT could have a fantastic career and this still end up being a bad trade, largely because it was indeed a looooot to give up to move up for a G.  

Only the fence-sitters deserve scorn!

[65 Toss Power Trap]

Good poll because it's a good discussion and we'll be watching results for a few years.

I think AVT is a stud and hopefully he'll be a long time starter. 

[freestater]

AVT looks pretty good, but I like hating on Joe Douglas, so no. ?

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, freestater said:

AVT looks pretty good, but I like hating on Joe Douglas, so no. ?

[Stark]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

As a refresher, this was the trade that landed the Jets Alijah Vera-Tucker:

 

Jets received:

• Pick # 14:  G Alijah Vera-Tucker
• Pick # 143 (Later traded, netting Jets the players below):
  • S Brandin Echols (2 INT's, 9 PD's)
  • CB Jason Pinnock (2 FFs, 1 PD)
  • DT Jonathan Marshall (4 Games, 1 QB Hit, 1 QB Pressure)

Vikings received:

• Pick # 23:  OT Christian Darrisaw
• Pick # 66:  QB Kellen Mond
• Pick # 86:  G Wyatt Davis

 

In making the deal, the Jets (theoretically at least) missed out on the following notable players who ended up being available at pick 23 (and then later at 66 and 86) and performed well as rookies:

• EDGE Gregory Rousseau - BUF - pick 1.30 (4.0 Sacks, 1 FF, 10 QB Hits, 1 INT, 4 PDs, 8 TFLs)
• G Jalen Mayfield - ATL - pick 3.68
• G Landon Dickerson - PHI - pick 2.37
• RB Najee Harris - PIT - pick 1.24 (1200 yards, 3.9 YPC, 74 catches, 10 total TDs)
• RB Javonte Williams - DEN - pick 2.35 (4.4 YPC, 43 catches, 7 total TDs)
• CB Paulson Adebo - NO - pick 3.76 (3 INTs, 8 PDs)
• DT Osa Odighizuwa - DAL - pick 3.75 (2.0 Sacks, 6 TFLs, 11 QB Hits, 8 QB Knockdowns)
• WR Rondale Moore - AZ - pick 2.49 (54 catches, 435 yards, 1 TD)
• WR Rashod Bateman - BAL - pick 1.27 (46 catches, 515 yards, 1 TD)

 

 

@GreenFish

@Darnold's Forehead

@DoubleDecker

@Lupz27

I voted "YES" but I honestly don't care if we "won". We got a good player at a position of need with positional flexibility that appears to be on track to at least be a solid starter if not better. so .... sure. we won the trade. 

[Morrissey]

 The Jets wouldn’t of taken the same players as Minnesota. 

[Morrissey]

Could have taken Quinn Meinerz who I was beating drum for 

[CTJetsFan]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

As a refresher, this was the trade that landed the Jets Alijah Vera-Tucker:

 

Jets received:

• Pick # 14:  G Alijah Vera-Tucker
• Pick # 143 (Later traded, netting Jets the players below):
  • S Brandin Echols (2 INT's, 9 PD's)
  • CB Jason Pinnock (2 FFs, 1 PD)
  • DT Jonathan Marshall (4 Games, 1 QB Hit, 1 QB Pressure)

Vikings received:

• Pick # 23:  OT Christian Darrisaw
• Pick # 66:  QB Kellen Mond
• Pick # 86:  G Wyatt Davis

 

In making the deal, the Jets (theoretically at least) missed out on the following notable players who ended up being available at pick 23 (and then later at 66 and 86) and performed well as rookies:

• EDGE Gregory Rousseau - BUF - pick 1.30 (4.0 Sacks, 1 FF, 10 QB Hits, 1 INT, 4 PDs, 8 TFLs)
• G Jalen Mayfield - ATL - pick 3.68
• G Landon Dickerson - PHI - pick 2.37
• RB Najee Harris - PIT - pick 1.24 (1200 yards, 3.9 YPC, 74 catches, 10 total TDs)
• RB Javonte Williams - DEN - pick 2.35 (4.4 YPC, 43 catches, 7 total TDs)
• CB Paulson Adebo - NO - pick 3.76 (3 INTs, 8 PDs)
• DT Osa Odighizuwa - DAL - pick 3.75 (2.0 Sacks, 6 TFLs, 11 QB Hits, 8 QB Knockdowns)
• WR Rondale Moore - AZ - pick 2.49 (54 catches, 435 yards, 1 TD)
• WR Rashod Bateman - BAL - pick 1.27 (46 catches, 515 yards, 1 TD)

 

 

@GreenFish

@Darnold's Forehead

@DoubleDecker

@Lupz27

I'm not sure you can say the Jets "missed out" on any guards when they drafted AVT in the first round.

I'll also take the "big picture view" of the trade and factor in the moves we made this off-season (drafting Sauce,Wilson, Johnson & Hall and signing Tomlinson as a FA) who may be better than the guys we "missed out" on to say we came out on top. 

[freestater]

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Probably deep-seated insecurities and a malignant self loathing.

Or perhaps I just get an ironic joy from this team sucking. 

[Bronx]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No one who says “no” should be negged, because AVT could have a fantastic career and this still end up being a bad trade, largely because it was indeed a looooot to give up to move up for a G.  

Only the fence-sitters deserve scorn!

So for the record, did JD screwed up in 2020 and 21?

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Bronx said:

So for the record, JD screwed up in 2020 and 21?

No….no?  Even if you could successfully argue the AVT trade was not a net positive, the Elijah Moore pick was pretty rad. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, freestater said:

Probably deep-seated insecurities and a malignant self loathing.

Or perhaps I just get an ironic joy from this team sucking. 

At least you’re not a scumbag. 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, CTJetsFan said:

I'm not sure you can say the Jets "missed out" on any guards when they drafted AVT in the first round.

The thinking there would be they could have grabbed a G later AND gotten additional high pick talent with the other 2 picks.  

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, Morrissey said:

 The Jets wouldn’t of taken the same players as Minnesota. 

That’s why I listed the other players below it.  The top part was just a refresher to show which picks went where and who they ended up being.  

[CTJetsFan]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The thinking there would be they could have grabbed a G later AND gotten additional high pick talent with the other 2 picks.  

Gotcha. I'll still stick with my vote

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, CTJetsFan said:

Gotcha. I'll still stick with my vote

I voted “yes” too, for the record.  Merely playing devil’s advocate. 

[RutgersJetFan]

The context with the AVT pick is that a billion guys didn't play that year and it was just a bizarre year in college football overall that made scouting anyone way harder. The Jets desperately needed a sure thing on the line in a year where sure things were the hardest to come by maybe ever. Did they overpay a little bit for an interior lineman? Probably. But that was the year to do it. 

[the Claw]

So far I’m happy to have him. He wasn’t remarkable as a rookie but he looked like he belonged in the NFL. I have faith he’ll improve and the deal will continue to be worth it. 
 

I will say, if JD wants a player, he goes and gets him. It was a lot to give up, so truth be told the Jets probably overpaid according to whatever value chart, but I like the player.

[Bronx]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No….no?  Even if you could successfully argue the AVT trade was not a net positive, the Elijah Moore pick was pretty rad. 

Elijah was my favorite last year and still rooting for him. But after hearing Corey Davis 

praising Garrett Wilson--I am going to jump the wagon after doubting the pick--needless to say.

 

[Bleedin Green]

Not too upset about it, but no, I don't think they "won".  I never loved the idea of taking an interior OL in the top half of the first, so of course also not trading up to make that happen, particularly for a team with so many needs and the supposed OL expertise of JD, at a position very frequently filled with mid-to-late rounders and solid starters frequently finding their way into FA .

If AVT is a hit, then I'll of course be just fine with it, as this team has done much worse before.  However, I also think his rookie year was a bit over-hyped around here, as while he was not by any measure bad, there were a few of his own whiffs folks were in a rush to blame his lesser-liked teammates (including McGovern repeatedly earlier in the year, before he won back the favor of fans), rather than rightfully putting on him.

It's simply not the kind of move I'd typically be excited about short of it fitting a very specific need for an otherwise well-built team.  However, all that will really matter is how it works out, but I will say the reduction in draft picks that came as a result of the move definitely can't be considered a justification for the Jets yet again needing "one more year" when they chose to so heavily invest, so it's time to put up or shut up.

[Jet_Engine1]

AVT was a good trade up IMO. Hell get better, his skillset fits the scheme, he's strong, athletic, and will get better. I would like to see him develop into a top 10 guard, and think he has the talent and ability, but yeah, I liked the move. 

[jeremy2020]

Yes because the 'missing out' argument is pointless and dumb. The only things to evaluate is if the pick panned out to date, lived up to value at the position and if the team could have effectively used the lost assets to become better.

They have 2 out of 3 in my mind. The last one I answer by the draft is a crapshoot and I've changed my mind on trading down to take more lottery tickets in all situations. You need good players and if you think have a 5+ year starter then you get him. You can't even use '7 picks' every year so if you think you can hit on 3 guys each year then use all the rest of your picks to get them if you want. 

[slimjasi]

AVT was as close to a "sure thing" as you could get and we desperately needed a legit guard. I'm cool with the trade. I'm not really sure if we "won" the trade because we gave up a lot, but I also don't care. I'm happy with AVT. 

[Icer]

I think people forgot how bad the guards were the year before last. Definitely worth doing

[Jetsfan80]

5 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

Yes because the 'missing out' argument is pointless and dumb. The only things to evaluate is if the pick panned out to date, lived up to value at the position and if the team could have effectively used the lost assets to become better.

Don’t these 2 thoughts run counter to each other though?  The “lost assets” could have been converted into players in the draft they “missed out on”.

[Jetsfan80]

6 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

Not too upset about it, but no, I don't think they "won".  I never loved the idea of taking an interior OL in the top half of the first, so of course also not trading up to make that happen, particularly for a team with so many needs and the supposed OL expertise of JD, at a position very frequently filled with mid-to-late rounders and solid starters frequently finding their way into FA .

Makes sense, and this is why it’s not a rousing “yes” for me, even though I voted yes.  

Add to that the thinking that Douglas is deemed to be a bit of an OL guru, so trading up for one rather than finding his gem in the middle rounds is a salient debate as well.  He had to have really, really love AVT in order to make the move.  

[Biggs]

The poll question sucks.  A trade can be good for both teams without being a win for one and a loss for the other.   Unlike the Adams trade where we bitch slapped Pete.  

[More Cowbell]

12 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

As a refresher, this was the trade that landed the Jets Alijah Vera-Tucker:

 

Jets received:

• Pick # 14:  G Alijah Vera-Tucker
• Pick # 143 (Later traded, netting Jets the players below):
  • S Brandin Echols (2 INT's, 9 PD's)
  • CB Jason Pinnock (2 FFs, 1 PD)
  • DT Jonathan Marshall (4 Games, 1 QB Hit, 1 QB Pressure)

Vikings received:

• Pick # 23:  OT Christian Darrisaw
• Pick # 66:  QB Kellen Mond
• Pick # 86:  G Wyatt Davis

 

In making the deal, the Jets (theoretically at least) missed out on the following notable players who ended up being available at pick 23 (and then later at 66 and 86) and performed well as rookies:

• EDGE Gregory Rousseau - BUF - pick 1.30 (4.0 Sacks, 1 FF, 10 QB Hits, 1 INT, 4 PDs, 8 TFLs)
• G Jalen Mayfield - ATL - pick 3.68
• G Landon Dickerson - PHI - pick 2.37
• RB Najee Harris - PIT - pick 1.24 (1200 yards, 3.9 YPC, 74 catches, 10 total TDs)
• RB Javonte Williams - DEN - pick 2.35 (4.4 YPC, 43 catches, 7 total TDs)
• CB Paulson Adebo - NO - pick 3.76 (3 INTs, 8 PDs)
• DT Osa Odighizuwa - DAL - pick 3.75 (2.0 Sacks, 6 TFLs, 11 QB Hits, 8 QB Knockdowns)
• WR Rondale Moore - AZ - pick 2.49 (54 catches, 435 yards, 1 TD)
• WR Rashod Bateman - BAL - pick 1.27 (46 catches, 515 yards, 1 TD)

 

 

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