AVT trade 1 year later: Did the Jets "win" the trade?

[FidelioJet]

Look, while I don't think the Jets won the trade the move was fine.

They did trade up to take a G in the top half of the draft.  A guard that wasn't even the best rookie guard last year.

I mean, he was solid and looks like he'll become a solid to very good NFL G - which is great

But, I would trade AVT for Darrishaw straight up right now.

So I'm not upset with the move at all - but I wouldn't say they won the trade either

[DetroitRed]

I thought we got AVT in the Jamal Adams trade?

[Dunnie]

AVT is an iron man and will be an anchor of stability for years ... probably one of our top 5-10 players.

[The Crusher]

13 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

As a refresher, this was the trade that landed the Jets Alijah Vera-Tucker:

 

Jets received:

• Pick # 14:  G Alijah Vera-Tucker
• Pick # 143 (Later traded, netting Jets the players below):
  • S Brandin Echols (2 INT's, 9 PD's)
  • CB Jason Pinnock (2 FFs, 1 PD)
  • DT Jonathan Marshall (4 Games, 1 QB Hit, 1 QB Pressure)

Vikings received:

• Pick # 23:  OT Christian Darrisaw
• Pick # 66:  QB Kellen Mond
• Pick # 86:  G Wyatt Davis

 

In making the deal, the Jets (theoretically at least) missed out on the following notable players who ended up being available at pick 23 (and then later at 66 and 86) and performed well as rookies:

• EDGE Gregory Rousseau - BUF - pick 1.30 (4.0 Sacks, 1 FF, 10 QB Hits, 1 INT, 4 PDs, 8 TFLs)
• G Jalen Mayfield - ATL - pick 3.68
• G Landon Dickerson - PHI - pick 2.37
• RB Najee Harris - PIT - pick 1.24 (1200 yards, 3.9 YPC, 74 catches, 10 total TDs)
• RB Javonte Williams - DEN - pick 2.35 (4.4 YPC, 43 catches, 7 total TDs)
• CB Paulson Adebo - NO - pick 3.76 (3 INTs, 8 PDs)
• DT Osa Odighizuwa - DAL - pick 3.75 (2.0 Sacks, 6 TFLs, 11 QB Hits, 8 QB Knockdowns)
• WR Rondale Moore - AZ - pick 2.49 (54 catches, 435 yards, 1 TD)
• WR Rashod Bateman - BAL - pick 1.27 (46 catches, 515 yards, 1 TD)

 

 

@GreenFish

@Darnold's Forehead

@DoubleDecker

@Lupz27

@Morrissey

@RedBeardedSavage

That pick was more about the “we are going to lift you up” nonsense about Zach then it was value. AVT will likely be a very nice to excellent player, but no we didn’t win that trade. Mostly because not sure we were trying to win anything, except the approval of the Wilson family from Draper. 

[sackdance]

If AVT isn’t effective or can’t stay on the field, then we can play morning QB to dissect a mistake. 

But big picture is we secured what we were looking for. Call it a good thing and remember that the real wins are had on the field of play.

[Integrity28]

Which response will guarantee that 89 spends the next 6 years trying to rub my nose in something I give zero effs about?

[sciond]

Voted no, however AVT could be great for us for 10 years possibly.  The high cost was real though for an OL

[Rhg1084]

13 hours ago, freestater said:

AVT looks pretty good, but I like hating on Joe Douglas, so no. ?

Lol hating on Joe Douglas for what? What moves should he have made that he didn’t 

[Rhg1084]

AVT looks like he’s gonna be a staple on this line for years to come. It was a good move to grab him. Jets desperately needed offensive line help at the time. Him and Tomlinson could make for one of the best G combos in the league 

[BUM-KNEE]

I don't have any issue with the trade, we needed quality lineman STAT 

 

So yeah, we won.

 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

But, I would trade AVT for Darrishaw straight up right now.

I wouldnt

interesting that we complain when our guys miss games but are seemingly fine with other teams players like a Darrishaw who only had 10 starts

[rex-n-effect]

It's one thing to judge the draft decisions based on their own merit. It's another to compare it to the hypothetical "right" decisions with the benefit of a year of hindsight, especially without knowing what moves other teams might have made had the Jets not acted as they did. That sets a bar that no GM can ever meet. 

[#27TheDominator]

I don't have a problem with the trade, but I don't see how you can say we won a trade where Darrisaw probably outplayed AVT and the Texans took Davis Mills the pick after Mond and he probably had a better year than Wilson.

They loved AVT and he hasn't done anything to show they are wrong, but I am not a huge fan of the move ups and that includes Breece Hall and Johnson.  Hopefully they pinpointed the guys they need for the system and the locker room, but as far as the draft goes I generally prefer the shotgun to the sniper rifle.

[jeremy2020]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Don’t these 2 thoughts run counter to each other though?  The “lost assets” could have been converted into players in the draft they “missed out on”.

I should have explained better. the so and so ended up as a great player 'missing out' argument is silly. There's usually a bunch of teams that missed out or situations like missing out on a great DT that for the jets would matter much, much less than 'missing out' on a great WR. 

Could the Jets have likely gotten more impact to their team with those picks than they did with AVT? It seems unlikely to me so I don't think using the surrendered assets was likely to have more impact. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

PFF grades;

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/christian-darrisaw/77373

Darrisaw - 71.9

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/alijah-vera-tucker/57107

AVT - 66.8

*not endorsing PFF grades generally, just looking for some type of quantifiable measurement of how each performed last season*

And their guy is a tackle...

But I think @RutgersJetFan is right about that year being a weird draft, the Jets were a team desperate for help along the o line and AVT being universally considered safer as a prospect than Darrisaw.

But I'll take the yellow-belly non-committal position for the moment. AVT, based on where he was drafted and what we gave up to get there, has to make multiple pro bowls. 

[RutgersJetFan]

19 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

PFF grades;

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/christian-darrisaw/77373

Darrisaw - 71.9

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/alijah-vera-tucker/57107

AVT - 66.8

*not endorsing PFF grades generally, just looking for some type of quantifiable measurement of how each performed last season*

And their guy is a tackle...

But I think @RutgersJetFan is right about that year being a weird draft, the Jets were a team desperate for help along the o line and AVT being a universally considered safer prospect than Darrisaw.

But I'll take the yellow-belly non-committal position for the moment. AVT, based on where he was drafted and what we gave up to get there, has to make multiple pro bowls. 

Huge chunk of guys getting drafted that didn't even play that year. And for the ones that did play, a good chunk of them played shortened and sometimes bizarre schedules or crowds. I think the only goal from that year was to come away with a handful of guys that you were surest could be good. With the mid-rounds being as unsure as they were, whatever, two thirds with a fourth coming back might as well have been a roll of the dice. The fact that the Jets of all teams, who have been historically putrid in the mid-late rounds since the Rex years, hit on a couple guys in the 4th and 5th is proof of that.

[Alka]

To answer the question of if the Jets won this trade?

I would say the following:

The Jets made a trade for a starting NFL guard in AVT.  In this player, they saw someone who could step in on day one and solidify this offensive position for the next decade.  they saw a plus player, who they hoped would one day climb to a pro-bowl level player.

Did this player meet expectations?  the answer is "yes".  Therefore, the Jets won the trade because they got exactly what they hoped they would get out of the player and out of the trade.

Now, I think it is fair to say that the Vikings could look at this trade as a win for them, and I think it is a win for them.  

Nothing wrong with a "win/win scenario".  Good for the Vikings.

Now, in conclusion to this question:  "If the Jets had waited until they picked at #23, would AVT had still been there for the Jets to pick?"

The answer is "no", he wouldn't have been there.  This final fact reinforces that the Jets and the Vikings both won this trade.

[thebuzzardman]

18 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I made this a public poll so we could see who the spineless amongst us are.  I'll keep a running list in the OP.  

 

I absolute went with the cop out answer. I feel it's the answer most should give but ironically, cop out on. 

[Spoot-Face]

18 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I made this a public poll so we could see who the spineless amongst us are.  I'll keep a running list in the OP.  

 

sup, bitch

[David Harris]

19 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

As a refresher, this was the trade that landed the Jets Alijah Vera-Tucker:

 

Jets received:

• Pick # 14:  G Alijah Vera-Tucker
• Pick # 143 (Later traded, netting Jets the players below):
  • S Brandin Echols (2 INT's, 9 PD's)
  • CB Jason Pinnock (2 FFs, 1 PD)
  • DT Jonathan Marshall (4 Games, 1 QB Hit, 1 QB Pressure)

Vikings received:

• Pick # 23:  OT Christian Darrisaw
• Pick # 66:  QB Kellen Mond
• Pick # 86:  G Wyatt Davis

 

In making the deal, the Jets (theoretically at least) missed out on the following notable players who ended up being available at pick 23 (and then later at 66 and 86) and performed well as rookies:

• EDGE Gregory Rousseau - BUF - pick 1.30 (4.0 Sacks, 1 FF, 10 QB Hits, 1 INT, 4 PDs, 8 TFLs)
• G Jalen Mayfield - ATL - pick 3.68
• G Landon Dickerson - PHI - pick 2.37
• RB Najee Harris - PIT - pick 1.24 (1200 yards, 3.9 YPC, 74 catches, 10 total TDs)
• RB Javonte Williams - DEN - pick 2.35 (4.4 YPC, 43 catches, 7 total TDs)
• CB Paulson Adebo - NO - pick 3.76 (3 INTs, 8 PDs)
• DT Osa Odighizuwa - DAL - pick 3.75 (2.0 Sacks, 6 TFLs, 11 QB Hits, 8 QB Knockdowns)
• WR Rondale Moore - AZ - pick 2.49 (54 catches, 435 yards, 1 TD)
• WR Rashod Bateman - BAL - pick 1.27 (46 catches, 515 yards, 1 TD)

 

 

@GreenFish

@Darnold's Forehead

@DoubleDecker

@Lupz27

@Morrissey

@RedBeardedSavage

I voted yes because I really like AVT but the Echols, Pinnock, Marshall additions sealed it.  The jury is out but Echols is decent depth and Pinnock looks like the same if not the actual starter.  Marshall has a crazy RAS score but that's about it at this point. But if those 3 end up as quality backups found in the 5th-7th rounds that's very solid drafting.

[PepPep]

19 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

As a refresher, this was the trade that landed the Jets Alijah Vera-Tucker:

 

Jets received:

• Pick # 14:  G Alijah Vera-Tucker
• Pick # 143 (Later traded, netting Jets the players below):
  • S Brandin Echols (2 INT's, 9 PD's)
  • CB Jason Pinnock (2 FFs, 1 PD)
  • DT Jonathan Marshall (4 Games, 1 QB Hit, 1 QB Pressure)

Vikings received:

• Pick # 23:  OT Christian Darrisaw
• Pick # 66:  QB Kellen Mond
• Pick # 86:  G Wyatt Davis

 

In making the deal, the Jets (theoretically at least) missed out on the following notable players who ended up being available at pick 23 (and then later at 66 and 86) and performed well as rookies:

• EDGE Gregory Rousseau - BUF - pick 1.30 (4.0 Sacks, 1 FF, 10 QB Hits, 1 INT, 4 PDs, 8 TFLs)
• G Jalen Mayfield - ATL - pick 3.68
• G Landon Dickerson - PHI - pick 2.37
• RB Najee Harris - PIT - pick 1.24 (1200 yards, 3.9 YPC, 74 catches, 10 total TDs)
• RB Javonte Williams - DEN - pick 2.35 (4.4 YPC, 43 catches, 7 total TDs)
• CB Paulson Adebo - NO - pick 3.76 (3 INTs, 8 PDs)
• DT Osa Odighizuwa - DAL - pick 3.75 (2.0 Sacks, 6 TFLs, 11 QB Hits, 8 QB Knockdowns)
• WR Rondale Moore - AZ - pick 2.49 (54 catches, 435 yards, 1 TD)
• WR Rashod Bateman - BAL - pick 1.27 (46 catches, 515 yards, 1 TD)

 

 

@GreenFish

@Darnold's Forehead

@DoubleDecker

@Lupz27

@Morrissey

@RedBeardedSavage

First, I will start by saying I am not playing the 'who did we miss out on' game. There are just WAY too many variables to consider. 

Second, I will say that arguing a its too early to tell is FAR from cowardly and probably makes the most sense. But I assume that was a joke! lol. hilarious. 

 

Finally, RIGHT NOW, it looks to me like the JETS won the trade, hands down. 

1. They got the player they wanted. AVT. You always win when you get the guy you want, at least initially. You could argue Vikings wanted Darrisaw all along but he really slid (was projected to go much higher) and they moved down. If they DID they would have taken him at 14. 

2. Echols became an immediate contributor and is an ascending young player. He should be a critical depth piece in this secondary, potentially for years to come.   

3. Pinnock looked like he needed considerable development but now he has positioned himself to potentially grab onto a starting FS role. 

4. In similar fashion, Marshall is developing into a quality rotational DT. 

So while the Vikings got a starter in Darrisaw, Mond and Davis are backups who have not contributed much as far as I can tell (I don't really follow the Vikings). The Jets got that starter the wanted in AVT and added 3 players who have not only already contributed but are trending up. 

The one thing I will say for the Vikings in this trade is that Darrisaw is a LT, Mond is a QB and Davis was considered one of the top Guards in the draft. If they hit on ALL THREE of these guys and they develop long term, odds are the Vikings will be the big winners in this trade.   

[bitonti]

6 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

But, I would trade AVT for Darrishaw straight up right now.

Darrisaw and AVT are both Pro Bowl possible at their respective positions. Darrisaw plays a rarer position, makes a lower salary but has more significant injury concerns 

I'd say that trade is damn near a draw or a Win-Win 

both sides are probably happy with the outcome 

 

[Jetsfan80]

7 hours ago, Biggs said:

The poll question sucks.  A trade can be good for both teams without being a win for one and a loss for the other.   Unlike the Adams trade where we bitch slapped Pete.  

So how should the poll have been worded, Mr. Gallup or Harris.  

[Jetsfan80]

37 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Second, I will say that arguing a its too early to tell is FAR from cowardly and probably makes the most sense. But I assume that was a joke! lol. hilarious. 

 

 

100 %.  Trying to have some fun in the midst of another long offseason.  

[Hex]

17 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

At least you’re not a scumbag. 

Unlike Bill Belichick?

[DoubleDown]

Yes, it's a cop out, but I voted too early to tell.

AVT had a solid rookie year, and his future looks promising.  But in order to justify trading up for OG in the first round, the player needs to turn into a perennial pro bowler.  We'll see if he stays healthy long term and whether he turns into the dominant player we are all hoping for. So... TBD.

The Vikings picks really have no bearing on whether this was a good trade for the Jets or not.  My understanding is that the draft last year was deep with outside zone blocking offensive lineman.  I don't really know how any of those prospects have turned out.

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So how should the poll have been worded, Mr. Gallup or Harris.  

Conceptually I wouldn't make a winners and loser poll on a draft day trade like the AVT trade.  Teams have different needs and draft picks take time to evaluate their ultimate value.   I think it was a fair trade where on a value scale MN did slightly better and we got a player we had graded high enough for the value to work for us.   Good trade.  Both teams won.  

 

[Jetsfan80]

7 hours ago, rex-n-effect said:

It's one thing to judge the draft decisions based on their own merit. It's another to compare it to the hypothetical "right" decisions with the benefit of a year of hindsight, especially without knowing what moves other teams might have made had the Jets not acted as they did. That sets a bar that no GM can ever meet. 

GM's are paid a lot of money to have foresight.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

Conceptually I wouldn't make a winners and loser poll on a draft day trade like the AVT trade.  Teams have different needs and draft picks take time to evaluate their ultimate value.   I think it was a fair trade where on a value scale MN did slightly better and we got a player we had graded high enough for the value to work for us.   Good trade.  Both teams won.  

 

Just doing my part to create some discussion in one of the slowest football news months of the year and save the board, with @Bronx as my inspiration/muse.

[Jethead]

Jets roster before JD vs. Jets roster today.

Micromanaging each move is not the point. Top to bottom we are a far better team of players and coaches. Arrow is pointed solidly to the upside. Good enough for me. Go JD!

[TheClashFan]

I resent the insinuation that I am a spineless, fence-sitting coward.  I have NOT ONCE ever sat on a fence, for any reason whatsoever, though I have climbed and jumped over a few in my day.

And I've never been to a rodeo...

 

 

[SickJetFan]

worst time of year > draft < training camp

 

 

voted yes

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, TheClashFan said:

I resent the insinuation that I am a spineless, fence-sitting coward.  I have NOT ONCE ever sat on a fence, for any reason whatsoever, though I have climbed and jumped over a few in my day.

And I've never been to a rodeo...

And yet you're on the list all the same sir.